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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/14/2008 6:06:09 AM | The Confusion of God...
I'm not suggesting for one moment that this is a new idea, but it's pretty recent for me.
To humankind the biblical idea of God precedes those things written; as well it should, because if I were to tell you that humans are not the only form of intelligence in the universe it might begin to make sense…
My belief is that we are a species that have only progressed thus far with the help of other universal beings. I believe these beings are our ‘real’ ancestors, god-like in their mental/physical/spiritual abilities. It has been said that God observes us from heaven, change that to “Gods observe us from the heavens” and you begin to see that celestial beings have been and continuing to monitor our process – progress that morally may be painfully slow. However, technically our advancements have exploded in a just few short years.
I have been thinking lately that God is the plural; that they are our Guardians, that this is who Christ was and all those who came before him.
How much reasoning, if any, can you give this hypothesis? | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/14/2008 6:26:08 AM | No fire from me, buddy, but I for one, cannot.
Unless you view humanity throughout its entire history as one, whole organism, I do not believe that we fit this hypothesis.
It just seems to me that a race of god-like celestial beings would not allow, or should not have allowed billions of people to die in well, rather squallid conditions before others took their place and built luxury and splendour.
I mean, it'd be nice to believe that we did have some well-meaning celestial beings watching over us, and indeed, some do feel that way. However, in my mind, if they were watching, I'd say that they've been nothing but cruel to watch what we've been doing to one another all this time and not interfere. Especially if they are our ancestors. Would you watch your children starve to death, or worse, cause their siblings to do so? | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/14/2008 6:54:29 AM | Humanespresso
love the name. :)
<div class="quote">Unless you view humanity throughout its entire history as one, whole organism, I do not believe that we fit this hypothesis.
I see no reason not to view humanity as one organism.
<div class="quote">It just seems to me that a race of god-like celestial beings would not allow, or should not have allowed billions of people to die in well, rather squallid conditions before others took their place and built luxury and splendour.
I hear you loud and clear. Perhaps our free will endorses certain things they are not able to interfere with, just as some would say God will not? It does sound harsh, but until we know the complexity of our evolution (and I think you can appreciate this) it is something that will always remain in our hands, do you suppose?
Edit:
We need to come to an understanding about ourselves. | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/14/2008 7:39:02 AM | oh no... got you thinking with my star trek version of heaven did i?
thief...
I was talking to a celestial being just the other day and a funny thing happened. It told me that the next technological advancement would be a space propulsion that would make inter-planetary travel by humans feasible and that the fuel would be good old fashioned water from the oceans. Giant bottle rockets as it were with diamond hulls made from a cache of diamonds discovered in the depths of the oceans and harvested by sperm whales.
But soon a few guys in white coats came and put him in a strait jacket and all our hopes were shattered. | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/14/2008 8:02:39 AM |  Yay Stats, I knew I could rely on you for some clarity. :laugh:
But you know what?
Maybe there's something in that water... 
Did you know that every time you pray you are talking to a celestial being?... Albeit in any given name. No... I won't call for the white coats.
Thanks for the smiles! | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/14/2008 8:10:38 AM | | Reading the OP brings to mind the Urantia book. You might want to check that one out skypoetone. It backs up where you are going here but it is by no means a light read. Its a huge book with really thin pages and it is chucked full of all kinds of mind bending things. I have seen where you can listen to it on mp3 online, not sure where that link is now but you can start here; http://urantiabook.org/ | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/14/2008 5:04:31 PM | ^^^Thanks for the link crash1967
After looking through the subjects it had to offer, it left me a little cold. Maybe I haven't found what resonates, or maybe there's nothing there jumping up at me.
I do believe we are the starchildren of superior races and our technological advances have been given a kick start. Like religion, it cannot be proved but there is increasing evidence to support this theory.
I've always distrusted historians because I think of them as disingenuous - that they would use propaganda to their advantage, perhaps they are still trying desperately to conceal things that would turn religion on its head and they fear the consequences... then again I could be wrong, but we could all be wrong huh? :) | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/14/2008 5:46:12 PM | Hi Sky :)
you begin to see that celestial beings have been and continuing to monitor our process I have always thought similarily... and that our progress is being monitored because 'their' evolution is somehow dependent upon it.... we are all one after all..
I have been thinking lately that God is the plural; that they are our Guardians, that this is who Christ was and all those who came before him. In my view, there is no separation between us and God... so no one is more special than any other... I guess in that sense, to me we are all guardians... | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/15/2008 10:03:12 AM | ---My belief is that we are a species that have only progressed thus far with the help of other universal beings--
Belief is irrelevant. It might give the individual the warm fuzzies, but in the
final analysis it is pointless. Stick with objectivity, science, and reason.
To quote Joe Friday " Just the facts maam, just the facts" | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/15/2008 10:54:52 AM | occamsrazor
Belief is irrelevant. It might give the individual the warm fuzzies, but in the
final analysis it is pointless. Stick with objectivity, science, and reason.
I see, so no-one should have faith in anything/anyone?
What a restricted existence you must lead…
If we all stuck to "facts" (and did not surmise other things) what kind of progress would humankind be making?
Now think on this... where do you suppose facts are found, if not through hypothesizing or to start by simply asking questions? | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/15/2008 12:32:36 PM |
How much reasoning, if any, can you give this hypothesis? I can give this much support, in that it seems to me that the ancient Greeks believed that gods were merely super-powerful living beings, and they could be hurt and even that some, like Hercules, a demi-god, could die. So did the ancient Egyptians, Romans, Mesopotamians, Babylonians, and most other cultures. So I would imagine that those people would agree with you.
I cannot confirm that any such race existed, because I have no confirmation of any such super-powerful living beings in science or in history.
However, it is a foundation of the Jewish Faith that the monotheistic G-d mentioned in the Old Testament refers to a being that encompasses all of nature, and has no bound form, either as matter or as energy.
There are many references to Diving beings in the Bible, some are to such beings as the Greeks believed in, which I shall call gods, and some to the omniprescent consciousness of the Jews, which I shall call G-d. This G-d is called by many names, all of which seem to be irregular nouns, and all seem to be grammatically shown to be in the singular, by the fact that these irregular nouns are accompanied by verbs which are always in the singular form. The gods are called by many names, which all seem to be in the plural, shown by the fact that they are always accompanied by verbs which are always in the plural form, and are only in the singular form when only one specific being seems to be referred to. One word is used for both: Elohim. When it refers to gods, such as the Greek gods, it always seems to be accompanied by verbs in the plural form. When it refers to the Jewish G-d, it always seems to be accompanied by verbs in the singular form. This would be a clear error in a physically descriptive language such as English. But Hebrew is a conceptual language, in which words are used for their attributes of expression. Since the word "El" has an expression of power, and the word "Elohim" has therefore the expression of plurality of power, being power that can be used in many places all at the same time, it can be used to describe any being that is capable of acting in a single moment as if it were multiple beings, in that such a being could make many actions in completely different places, all at the same time. Since an omnipresent consciousness would be quite capable of making many actions in completely different places, all at the same time, there is absolutely no conflict in Hebrew to use such a word to describe such a being. But English is non-conceptual, so it would be a grammatical error to do so. The word "Israel", referencing the people of Israel, is also described in such a multi-purposeful way, sometimes in the plural, to describe the actions of a group of individuals, and sometimes in the singular, to describe a group of people who are, at that time and place, all acting with one mind and a single union of purpose.
So I could not draw any conclusion from the expression for the Jewish G-d in the Bible, because the Jewish G-d is always grammatically represented in the singular form, shown by the verbs used. | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/15/2008 2:52:29 PM |
Unless you view humanity throughout its entire history as one, whole organism, I do not believe that we fit this hypothesis.
I only mentioned this because we as a race have only started moving out of squallor, constant warfare and struggle in the last little while of our evolution. Had these beings been watching over us all that time, that's a lot of lives wasted before us.
I don't know if you could say our free will endorses certain things they have no power over...I mean, I can't disprove it, but under the circumstances, it raises the question of what CAN they endorse then? And are they then functionally absent?
My personal belief is that wisdom, compassion and love are more beautiful because we as individuals have to make a choice to commit to them. There is no divine power urging us to, nor persuading us to, just us, and our choice to make the world better. Just makes a stronger statement in my mind, and makes me appreciate those who do act on it without the need for a banner. | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/15/2008 3:14:08 PM | | sky - Yes it does seem pretty dry with a cursory glance, and indeed it is not light reading as I said but it totally fits in with what you are getting at. Here is a link to the audio files - http://urantiabook.org/audio/Uversa_Press_DVD/toc_p1.html | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/16/2008 1:38:43 PM | | In response to Message #2, You do have a point. It would be cruel for these beings to sit and watch their fellow beings starve and incite violence. | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/17/2008 8:41:06 AM | Hey Sky;
How much reasoning, if any, can you give this hypothesis?
It can make sense... But it still wouldn't change my feelings on the subject... These guardians would still be parts of the same whole we are from, so although they may be in our family tree(so to speak), they wouldn't be any more the seed than we.
My opinion, of course!
There are not many Gods'.....One God......and a Whole fleet of Supreme Beings...
They are called 'Angels'
Come on now... This is what you believe, not what you know to be true... Claiming exclusivity of truth doesn't make it any more real.
Much to Chicken Little's shock, the sky has not yet fallen.
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/17/2008 9:20:52 AM | I can't say that i believe in aliens however i find the topic interesting and am curious. There are some who say that we did not evolve but are made by splicing our dna with monkey's or chimps or something. I heard about this theory but haven't found a source, I may of heard it on a radio talk show. They did say that their was proof but you know how these things go. I took a course called the flower of life and learned a meditation called the merkaba (light body activation. When activated from a side view looks pretty much like space ships. I also read a book unfortunately the name escapes me that talks about the propulsion systems of craft that would be able to travel fast enough to travel the stars that seemed to be a merging of man and machine. It talked about the ability of levitation and aporting to be the key to star travelling.
Its all very fascinating but can't say i believe it. If it were true it would be very cool. I also read a bit of a book called the keys of Enock (spelling) that talked about interstellar travelling in that vein and also talked about a race of aliens here on earth before our time that were in dirrect connection with God. They apparently did something to piss him off and God severed the cord that connected us to him.
This is where the reconnection comes in. This is a form of healing of sorts to that reconnects the cord to god that is assisted by celestial beings as well. I used check out every new thing i heard about and took many courses and read a lot of books on the subject but am not convinced that any of it is true. The reconnection however is quite strange indeed not sure what to make of it.
I'll be watching this thread with interest, thanks for posting | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/17/2008 9:52:42 AM | I think what you might be talking about crazy is this?
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=138944 | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/17/2008 10:59:51 AM | Stones
It can make sense... But it still wouldn't change my feelings on the subject... These guardians would still be parts of the same whole we are from, so although they may be in our family tree(so to speak), they wouldn't be any more the seed than we.
My opinion, of course!
I agree... but it would blow a proverbial hole in theology, history, the sciences and politics, as we know it today...
Hardly a passing glance huh? | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/17/2008 11:57:25 AM | | Hey crash thanks for the link, sadly however it is beyond my understanding. It would take me a week just to go through the words i don't understand to be able to read it so i can understand. If you understand it perhaps you could give a small synopsis? tanks | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/18/2008 6:33:30 PM | Humanespresso
My personal belief is that wisdom, compassion and love are more beautiful because we as individuals have to make a choice to commit to them. There is no divine power urging us to, nor persuading us to, just us, and our choice to make the world better. Just makes a stronger statement in my mind, and makes me appreciate those who do act on it without the need for a banner.
I think the divine power is within us all... we have the ability to control our emotions, to improve the world in every way, the environment. All that's required is to swallow some long standing pride and accept that through pure greed we are destroying ourselves and the planet. The god [Love] I express is part of the agenda, to realize what's good for us and our children, before it's too late to reverse the devastation... you are right, we don't need a banner, words alone are never going to be enough. | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/24/2008 6:43:34 PM | hello everyone!
I just found these forums and new to this, it's nice! Anyway i have on one of my journey come across a very intersting book, this can be shooking to some due to the dircetness of it's content, and being far out to some,But whatever, it is called wisdom of the rays, its a bunch of messages that got channel by people here and there, that comes from people from other places such a realms, diffrent planet, basiclly sort of spirituall guides,out there, i like to call them , the generals of the ligth soldiers shinning upon us all, making us part of there troops,make of this what you will, type wisdom the rays on google and it will showup,
Be Well And Happy
Remy | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/25/2008 11:26:26 PM | | To answer your question about reconnecting us with God, this has nothing to do with alliens at all. From what the Bible speaks about and from what I believe to be true is that when God made man and woman they were close with God and communicated with God daily and when they sinned it seperated them from God because of sin, now man is born into this world of sin and had no way back to God except for God to become a man (Jesus Christ) and die for the sins of mankind. When he did this those that believe and put their trust in God are reunited with God, which is the reconnection of the circle of life. God said that if we confess our sins and repent and turn away from these sins he is just and will forgive us of our sins and at the time we invite him back into our lives the circle of life that was broken is reconnected and this is the second comming of Christ as spoken in the Bible. At this time if we choose to live our lives according to the laws of God and commit our lives to God/Jesus Christ then we begin to grow in our relationship and understanding of God. This is when the spirit of God becomes one with his creation again and then we begin to hear him more clearly and are lead by his spirit to do his will in our lives. If we submit to this leading of the spirit of God we will begin to be used and understand the ways of God more clearly and can begin to see things more clearly through our spiritual eye. This is when you begin to see the power of God work through you and this is when miracles happen and lives are changed and the word of God begins to become real to you and speak to you. The carnal mind can not understand the ways of God and this is why people that do not know Jesus Chrsit as their personal savior can not know the ways of God and can not understand the word of Godand parish because the wages of sin is death and eternity without the God that created you and I in his image. I have seen miracles happen and lives changed because of what I have read and know this to be the truth and answer to your questions about this subjest, so if you are searching fro an answer open up to the God that created you and allow him to show you the way back to him! | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/25/2008 11:33:26 PM | | To answer your question about reconnecting us with God, this has nothing to do with alliens at all. From what the Bible speaks about this subject and from what I believe to be true, when God made man and woman they were close with God and communicated with God daily and when they sinned it seperated them from God because of sin, now man is born into this world of sin and had no way back to God except for God to become a man (Jesus Christ) and die for the sins of mankind. When he did this those that believe and put their trust in him are reunited with God, which is the reconnection of the circle of life. God said that if we confess our sins and repent and turn away from our sins he is just and will forgive us of our sins. So from the the time we invite him back into our lives the circle of life that was broken is reconnected and this is the second comming of Christ as spoken in the Bible. At this time if we choose to live our lives according to the laws of God and commit our lives to God/Jesus Christ then we begin to grow in our relationship and understanding and ways of God. This is when the spirit of God becomes one with his creation again and then we begin to hear him more clearly and are lead by his spirit to do his will in our lives daily. If we submit to this leading of the spirit of God we will begin to be used and understand the ways of God more clearly and can begin to see things more clearly through our spiritual eye. This is when you begin to see the power of God work through you and this is when miracles happen and lives are changed and the word of God begins to become real to you and speaks to you. The carnal mind can not understand the ways of God and this is why people that do not know Jesus Chrsit as their personal savior can not know the ways of God and can not understand the word of God and them parish because the wages of sin is death and eternity without the God that created us in his image. I have seen miracles happen and lives changed because of what I have read and know to be the truth and the answer to your questions about this subjest, so if you are searching for an answer, open up to the God that created you and allow him to show you the way back to him! | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 1/26/2008 6:39:10 PM | I agree with you Richard what you say makes sens to me, and have seen this explain in not such a traditional religious way, and belive it ,same thing, but as far as aliens, one thing for shure they are not god or now are they valued higher then us, we are all created in the image of god,but if one doesn't beileve in aliens, then that get thrown out of the equation,to each is own, as far as where does god come from is he is even somewhere specific or a form of energy, my guess i as good as anybody else , i like to think he is both, since we where created in his image,the main thing is to be happy, shine, and spread it around.
Be Well And happy
Remy | |
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| The Confusion of God
Posted: 3/27/2008 12:52:23 PM | Well, you lost me when it went to Aliens.....
But if you are looking for a similar line of faith, your original post sounded exactly like you might like studying the Bahai faith. (I'm not a member, but there is a beautiful temple in Chicago that I want to see eventually.)
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The Bahá'í Faith is a religion founded by Bahá'u'lláh in 19th-century Persia, emphasizing the spiritual unity of all humankind. There are about six million Bahá'ís in more than 200 countries and territories around the world.
According to Bahá'í teachings, religious history has unfolded through a series of God's messengers who brought teachings suited for the capacity of the people at their time, and whose fundamental purpose is the same. Bahá'u'lláh is regarded as the most recent, but not final, in a line of messengers that includes Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Krishna, Jesus, Muhammad and others. Bahá'u'lláh's claim to fulfill the eschatological promises of previous scriptures coincides with his mission to establish a firm basis for unity throughout the world, and inaugurate an age of peace and justice, which Bahá'ís expect will inevitably arise.
The Bahá'í teachings are often summarized by referring to three core principles: the unity of God, the unity of religion, and the unity of mankind.[3] Many Bahá'í beliefs and practices are rooted in these priorities; but taken alone these would be an over-simplification of Bahá'í teachings. | |
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