| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/15/2008 3:35:18 PM | Taken from another thread:
However, with that being said, like any other addiction if the addict doesn't want help he/she is not going to accept it. Forcing them into treatment will only become a waste of tax payers money because it won't work.
Do you think someone with a substance abuse problem should be forced into treatment?
What about court ordering suspected addicts to attend treatment in criminal court? Which is currently being done. Or Drug Court?
Do you think it works? Alcoholics Anonymous is said to have an approx 5% success rate. But that is based on voluntary attendance.
Some private facilities uses this model and forces addicts into treatment, such as a local program for adolescents, which boasts an 85% success rate.
If the success rate is accurate wouldn't it be in societies best interest to adopt the model and force all addicts into treatment?
Discuss | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/15/2008 4:42:24 PM | I don't think forcing someone into treatment is the right thing to do.
If it's a substance abuse....possibly have court ordered drug/alcohol testing be done for starters and show your support in the process. Honestly, I think that if it's forced, your only taking a step backwards...not forwards. It would be like telling a teenager NOT to do something....what do you think they are going to do?? They are going to do it....only because your saying not to. Encouragment for treatment is different......that is a plus and may just work.
JMO
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/15/2008 4:55:51 PM |
Alcoholics Anonymous is said to have an approx 5% success rate. But that is based on voluntary attendance.
Wow that seems really low, I have no facts to prove its untrue though.
Some private facilities uses this model and forces addicts into treatment, such as a local program for adolescents, which boasts an 85% success rate
Shouldn't this number be 100% ? I mean aren't they locked up without access to any drugs? At some point they would cease to be addicts. Or do you mean 85% of them stay clean after they get out? What is a drug court anyway?
I think we already do kind of force addicts into treatment. They get caught with drugs or doing a crime because of addiction and they go to jail. In jail they can't get drugs and are forced to get sober, in theory. However it seems like they can still get their drugs in there anyways. It seems to me no matter what we do an addict will still get high if thats what they want to do. There is no Country I know of that doesn't have addicts and each one has very different laws and approaches to dealing with them. Theres really no easy answers I guess. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/15/2008 6:25:56 PM | Don't forget the fact that the addiction is not just about the "substance".
Gambling can be just as bad - I did have some unfortunate experience with a severe gambling addict.
I'd say - there was little success when me and his family FORCED him into TREATMENT.
We should have FORCED him into UNDERSTANDING he had an addiction. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/15/2008 7:17:17 PM | You cannot force a addict into treatment they have to want it and help themselves...here is what i got by trying to help one out..lots of heartaches,head aches,she pulled a knife on me in the end and was sent to jail for all sorts of charges..did it help ...NO..she is still doing the same damn prescription drugs she was doing b4.
She is on probation with a no contact order and therapy but it hasnt stopped her from finding a doctor who will give her the meds. Wanna live my life..2years of having the shit burnt out of your personal belongings,cleaning up after some one that is worse then a kid cause they really dont care,getting woken up at 3 am cause they want to listen to some tunes and dont care that you have to work in the morning,my carpet has over 31 holes in it from smokes that were dropped while she was stoned,all of my pillows and blankets have burn marks in them for the same reason. She even managed to put burn marks in my friggen puter monitor,she burnt out a receiver that is worth over a grand for my house stereo...think she cared...no way...
I thought that i could help some one like that but i hate to tell ya...you cant...my 2 years of trying to help this person out would probably take you over 3 hours to read... and in the end it got me NOTHING..talk about rehab...i had her there 4 times and every time she got out all she wanted was drugs or booze...here is another one...went to work one morning and came home at dinner time...thats my 12 pm...wanna know what its like to go upstairs to my bedroom on the second floor and find out she is curled up in my bed...thats not a problem..i had a bunch of turkey in my fridge at the time and she made a sandwhich..still not a problem,but when i got home she had dumped it all in my bed and was curled right up in the middle of a sandwhich and covered in head to toe from it...imagine coming home and finding mayo and butter and bread all pushed into your sheets and smeared across there face and try and make sense of all that..
Addicts have to really hit the bottom of the barrel and want help....remember this....and its a Mantra...I didnt cause it....I cant control it...and i cant cure it...
My 2 years has taught me so much...will it get better...oh hell ya as soon as i walk away...do they care...NOPE..did i learn from it...YUP.. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/16/2008 6:54:53 AM | Hunter you make sense. You can not help an addict, until they want help.
Gambling is an addiction. Some people do not believe it can be.
Take an Alcoholic. There is a physical change in them.
Take an Drug addict. There is a physical change in them.
A Gambler. It is a mental change. Either they are happy(won money) or pissed(lost the rent money).
They do have one thing in common. They will lie.
Forcing them into treatment. They know how to play the system. Some even use it to get off the street when it is cold out.
Until the person actually wants help, there is very little you can do for them. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/16/2008 7:31:37 AM | As a recovered nicotine addict I can honestly say that you cannot FORCE anyone to get rid of their habit.
The physical, mental and emotional ties to a drug (or gambling) addiction are huge. There is a lot to overcome, and if your emotional thought isn't ready to deal, then locking you up where you can't physically have your fix only works as long as you are there. As soon as the drug is available you are back at it.
Education is the key. We need to be teaching our youngsters the dangers inherent with anything - not fear mongering, which they tried with marijuana.
No references, just guessing that it is much cheaper to keep a child off of a drug than it is to treat them once they are on it. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/16/2008 3:45:37 PM |
Forcing Addicts into treatment
dear lord.. half the ppl (if not more) from pof would be gone..  .. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/18/2008 7:18:47 PM | people who dont have addictions think it is all about will power
well to those people who think that------eat a box of exlax and will yourself not too poop!
I have been clean and sober awhile, and it is the hardest thing to do........let alone people telling you what you should and should not do.....you have to hit bottom and want to change your life! | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/18/2008 9:09:44 PM | eat a box of exlax and will yourself not too poop
I think that is one of the best analogies I've ever read!
I can sort of see the idea behind forcing teens into treatment - we 'force' them to do other things that are good for them as their parents and guardians. I think the approach misses the point though; addiction is not simply a behavior problem, like truancy. It's much more complex and I think probably the best that can be hoped for by forcing a teen into treatment is to keep them from using drugs. To expect them to embrace the principles of recovery in those circumstances is unrealistic. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/19/2008 5:17:41 AM | Anoughter mark on the wall. Welcome to Alberta.
Where do we buy our Albertian/German flags at?????
Get more communist everyday.
We'll sell ya smokes, but not let you smoke them, then if your addicted we're gunna force you into treatment.
Thinkin high time to start flying a swastica (How ever you spell it) up on the flag pole.
JMO | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/19/2008 7:47:28 AM | As human beings, we all figure if we observe something and see errors, then we are fit to judge.
Until you live it, I think none of us actually know how we would cope, or how we would feel if it was a family member.
When I was younger, my world was pretty black and white with strong opinions on every subject, .. as I've gotten older, and more experienced, my world is becoming more grey and alot less forgiving and tolerant of other people and their situations in life. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/19/2008 8:47:28 AM |
people who dont have addictions think it is all about will power
So do some who have, or had problems, think that.
I have been clean and sober awhile
ditto. More than 1/2 my life now actually, but not till after the damage was already done. Already quit school, left home, and living on the street. In a bottle almost actually, as that was ALL that mattered for some time.
No treatments, no punishments, no help of any sort. It was the [u]DISGUST[/u] I felt one morning when I actually woke up for some reason, and looked in the mirror, that made me fix the problem. Sorry but I hafta say it was pretty much will power alone that changed that pathetic drunk.
If it matters, I mean REALLY matters, will power is without doubt the best ally available to slay such monsters | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/19/2008 12:38:01 PM | Will power most certainly helps but a addict still has to hit rock bottom b4 they will change.Then they have to wake up and realize what they have lost and what they have in life which will probably be nothing.
The girl i was trying to help is still on the drugs,the cops told me and this was after she spent some time in jail for pulling the knife on me. She got out by pleading guilty and just found some more OXY magically. She found some one else to stay with,probably in a bar and this person must be on the same wave length as her cause as far as i know he doesnt work or is collecting welfare or something. All she has are her clothes as she has no assets at all,no car,no furniture or any other material possessions.
She was a model at one point in life when she was 18 or so but now to see her at 26 she looks to be about 35 or so.The cops have asked me not to let her back into my house as over the past 2 years they have been here over 70 times to deal with her.I am on a first name basis with all the cops in town and they just dread if i phone them.
Clothes and makeup dont account for anything after having 16 grand in the bank and loosing all of that also to the drug scenario.Her modelling portfolio would make you cry if you seen it and seen her now. Her short term memory is gone,she cant even remember where she put something 5 minutes ago,she has no time values such as its time to go to bed cause she can sleep all day and stay up all night...
In short term all she does is wing it....and its gotten her nothing at all....but she cant see what she has lost and even if she does its only for a few minutes then her brain cells become inactive again and she cant remember any thing....what a sorry sight to see in some one that could have had the world by the tail and showed so much potential in life... | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/19/2008 12:53:59 PM |
I can sort of see the idea behind forcing teens into treatment - we 'force' them to do other things that are good for them as their parents and guardians. I think the approach misses the point though; addiction is not simply a behavior problem, like truancy. It's much more complex and I think probably the best that can be hoped for by forcing a teen into treatment is to keep them from using drugs. To expect them to embrace the principles of recovery in those circumstances is unrealistic.
It's interesting how most people believe that forcing a person into treatment is a bad idea and they have to choose for themselves, or it just won't work.
Teens are people too, I don't understand how forcing them into treatment would be any less ineffective.
I think addiction is addiction and a teen would be no less addicted than an adult, if they were prone to be addicted.
A local program that forces kids into treatment and a 60, 70, 85% success rate depending on where you read the results is:
www.aarc.ab.ca
To save myself a lot of typing, this is the trouble with these types of programs that force treatment, have clients in charge of clients and use "behaviour modification" and "confrontational therapy":
http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?topic=24730.0
http://www.helpatanycost.com/
http://www.isaccorp.org/aarc/kidsandaarc.pdf | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/19/2008 12:55:43 PM | Msg#13 - Well said!!!
Msg#14- There is a lot ot be said about willpower...my father-in-law woke up one morning after years of heavy drinking, and decided that was the day to quit, and hasn't looked back. My husband, on the other hand, was one of the 95%....he lost his 10 month battle in sobriety and committed suicide, rather than go back. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/19/2008 12:58:53 PM | Double post ... here's another good one
http://www.trebach.org/abuse/
The potential for abuse in unlicensed, unregulated programs that force clients into treatment is staggering.
Adolescents who are forced into treatment with their parents consent are even more vulnerable, and less able to protect their rights. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/19/2008 1:09:06 PM | You can force a teen into treatment but here is what happens as the girl i was trying to help out told me...she was in a rehab program in alberta but the minute that no one is there to supervise or watch over them they were making plans..they were switching meds,telling one another how to get on AISH and welfare so they had more money for drugs they needed,switching meds and hiding them in a oral cavity then passing them to the next person....
It doesnt work...what you have is say 10 ppl all craving drugs and they all know how to hide them really well...they are just playing the system and thats it...they have to hit rock bottom and unfortunately probably 90 percent will be dead b4 this happens...Its the drugs and the lure of being stoned that attracts them...they cant handle life for real so they switch to something else and hope that the problem goes away...but it doesnt,so they just use more drugs and pretty soon they have lost all touch with reality... | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/19/2008 1:20:45 PM | Or try this one on for size....got up one morning and came downstairs at about 3 am to use the wash room...never said nothing to her as i walked by,she was on the couch watching t.v....as i went back upstairs i heard her say...Fukkin prick...and i never even said anythingto her..so how do you try and help some one who will say that to you while she is in your house all cozy comfy,well fed,doesnt have to worry about anything at all...
The drugs burn the mind out,this was not called for in any shape or term but its just something that was spurrted out....drugies dont think on the same level as normal ppl..cause they dont know what normal is and have lost all touch with reality.. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/19/2008 1:23:31 PM | It seems to me that people who are able to change, turn their lives around for the better are the ones who decide to do so for themselves.
Many kids who end up in treatment centers didn't have true addictions to begin with, many have mental health problems or their parents view them as being out of control and place them into programs.
If these programs effectively convince people that they are severely chemically addicted they may be creating more problems when the client finally gets out.
As well, adults and adolescents forced into treatment haven't come to a point where they have decided to make the changes for themselves. I think they would become MORE dependant on others and LESS able to cope on their own and make decisions on their own.
How can someone learn to make good decisions for themselves if someone else is always decision-making for them? | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/19/2008 1:29:35 PM | Icehunter, I'm truly sorry for what you went through with this person.
It pretty much proves the point that people with problems like this can only help themselves. Trying to help them only seems to make the problem worse.
I really don't think forced treatment would work.
The only way I can see it working is with either some element of brainwashing, which will eventually wear off once a person hits the "real world", or the individual has to have decided for themselves at the same time to make the changes anyway.
Some private facilities uses this model and forces addicts into treatment, such as a local program for adolescents, which boasts an 85% success rate
Shouldn't this number be 100% ? I mean aren't they locked up without access to any drugs? At some point they would cease to be addicts. Or do you mean 85% of them stay clean after they get out? What is a drug court anyway?
Well the number really should be 100% since the success rate is based on clients who are united with their families and attending school or work, and yes since they're still confined to the program at that point you would think it would be 100%
According to the University of Victoria's Substance Abuse research department no outside studies have been done on this program in particular. They also state that confrontational type treatment for addictions will only work on some people.
Given that, it seems wrong, not to mention cruel to force people into these programs.
Drug court is where people in trouble with the law are offered treatment opposed to jail. However, it is definitely uninformed consent for those who don't know what they're getting themselves into.
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/19/2008 1:32:31 PM | ^^^ good points on a complex subject.
I always feel bad when I see people so angry over these issues that they acutally can't control: thankfully there is hope and help out there... | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/19/2008 1:58:50 PM |
In jail they can't get drugs and are forced to get sober, in theory.
Oh they can get drugs in jail.
http://justice.gov.ab.ca/downloads/documentloader.aspx?id=47515
Scroll down to the "Medical Cause of Death" | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/19/2008 10:07:00 PM | | Cgirl...dont feel sorry for me cause i am still here...feel sorry for the souls that are lost to drugs and dont really give a shit about life any more... | |
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