| Boundaries
Posted: 1/18/2008 5:51:55 PM | We all have them. If you are not good at setting them you tend to have a pretty miserable life. If you are dealing with someone who is constantly violating those boundaries you tend to avoid them or distance yoruself.
I don't think these people are mean or evil but rather they just lack the ability to see that they are causing their own issues by violating boundaries. It's not their personality or their appearance and in a professional atmosphere, not being aware of your boundaries is suicide.
So I was thinking it would be useful if people could share instances where they felt their boundaries were violated and why. It may enlighten some who don't realize that the things they do are actually self-sabotage.
I'm thinking of things where people were a bit "too friendly", bullying, disruptive behavior, smothering, mistreatment, etc. Maybe express how you think that they thought the outcome would be versus what the outcome actually was. Explain how it wasn't about the action itself but how it was more about the boundary which it violated. Maybe even how things improved when you set a boundary if you set it. | |
|
| Boundaries
Posted: 1/18/2008 6:35:46 PM | | wow.............great topic,and enlightening as well.I think I've violated alot of boundaries,perhaps a self-destructive lifestyle is the reason for purposly pushing folks away so they dont get hurt when I (we if theres any) self destruct,but enlightening none the less! great thread BTW | |
|
| Boundaries
Posted: 1/18/2008 8:06:55 PM |
We all have them. If you are not good at setting them you tend to have a pretty miserable life.
I didn't know I had boundaries!!
Yet, I don't think my life is miserable. Had it's moments, but overall, I'm fine!
However, based on the description here, I've probably violated some peoples boundary. Yet, I wouldn't have known that everyone has them.  | |
|
| Boundaries
Posted: 1/19/2008 4:57:26 AM | ^^ You don't strike me as a person who has a lot of problems setting boundaries.
You helped me and a few others out once so we could all go to an event together. You also did a lot of coordinating of this event. You were constantly establishing firm (but very good) boundaries. You set deadlines for responses, payment, and outlined the things you were responsible for versus the things other people were responsible for.
You are VERY GOOD at establishing clear boundaries for yourself and for others which is why you are not miserable.
A hypothetical....
If one of us didn't pay you, this would have violated both an established financial boundary and the unestablished ethical one that comes along with that. By setting boundaries so well, if they were to complain to others about this they have compounded their issue.
If they try to gain support from others over the issue, they are now possibly violating even more boundaries. Slandering people can cross a boundary pretty easily which is why there are laws about it. Trying to involve people who are not involved in the issue can cross some people's boundaries of the level of harassment they will put up with or participate in.
All of a sudden people start realizing this person has a credibility issues, boundary issues, and financial issues and they will attempt to use and drain those around them. So now instead of just having issues with you, they have them with other people too over just that single incident.
People didn't turn on them merely because they didn't pay you back as they may be thinking. They turned on them because of their lack of respect for other people's boundaries. | |
|
| Boundaries
Posted: 1/19/2008 5:04:00 AM | | Some people have pushed... and crossed... boundaries I had set, but I've come to realize it was my fault for letting that happen. I'm a "pleaser"... so I can be persuaded to go along with something that I had no intention of doing, simply because I want to "please" the other person. I've since realized the error of my ways and have decided to get a backbone, stand firm, be assertive, and follow my instincts, which are usually fairly accurate. I am woman... hear me roar... (meow). :) | |
|
| Boundaries
Posted: 1/19/2008 9:15:42 AM | Telling guys you are not interested in dating them. Friends means exactly that, it doesn't say dating at all. There is a big difference between the two.
Yes ,you have to always listen to your instincts. If something, anything doesn't feel right about a person or situation, take heed, and listen to your instincts. If it doesn't feel right, do not proceed with the situation.. | |
|
| Boundaries
Posted: 1/19/2008 2:15:20 PM | I am not sure if "boundary" is the word that fits in your scenario. It seems as if you are talking about moral and ethical issues, where boundary, when referring to people's behaviour, tends to mean physical and emotional... at least I think so?
I do see what you mean about people not understanding that they can be the authors of their own social demise by being less than honest and honorable with others. I have had many people in my life that were like that and would take advantage of the fact that I am such a giving person, and unfortunately while those people are not in my life any longer (they were 'purged' so to speak) I am left with a (slightly) less giving nature these days.
I have learned that when you give to others and they never give back, you need to cut them loose. I try not to keep track but when you are constantly coming to the aid of friends in one way or another, and the one time you ask them for help they can't/won't/don't help you, you realize that you have to stop giving in their direction - and sadly, you are right, those people don't realize that they have done this by their behaviours. | |
|
| Boundaries
Posted: 1/20/2008 7:05:14 AM |
I am not sure if "boundary" is the word that fits in your scenario. It seems as if you are talking about moral and ethical issues, where boundary, when referring to people's behaviour, tends to mean physical and emotional... at least I think so
I asked myself that question before I made the post. It`s not about Morals or ethics because these are things which are guaranteed under the Human Rights Act of Canada. People are allowed to believe whatever they want. However, if these things infringe upon another`s right to believe what they wish to believe, it crosses a boundary. Not just in a moral or ethical sense but actually in a legal one as well. Like for instance I can run a company based on my morals and ethics, I can even tell my employees to follow these rules, but I can't infringe on their rights to believe what they want nor can I discriminate against someone for their beliefs. If my rules cross boundaries here, I might find I have a high turn over rate and there may even be liability issues involved.
All people have physical and psychological barriers when it comes to dealing with other people. It is what allows them to deal with so many different people with so very different beliefs. If you are good at establishing and respecting people`s boundaries, you`ll have a lot more productive relationships with people regardless of what your actual morals and ethics are.
If someone has profoundly different morals and ethics than me, we might not be best friends but there is really no reason why we can`t get along professionally or socially provided we respect each other's beliefs and boundaries. When it comes to things like dealing with people from profoundly different cultures, you might have to actually ask them what their boundaries are so you don't cross them. | |
|
| Boundaries
Posted: 1/20/2008 11:52:22 AM | Often as not, people who experience difficulties with personal boundaries are themselves either low-self-esteemed and/or prone to residing in co-dependent relationships with loved ones, workers, peers and friends....the "self-victimization" cycle so prevalent in North American society.
It's been studied to death, but lots of people rely on Oprah, so see for example:
http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/tows_past_20010205.jhtml
I think the topic you are discussing is very rarely (if ever) an issue of culture, morals or ethics...personal boundary issues are almost exclusively a personal development issue for women betwen the ages of approximately 35 and 55.
Then again, most pop psychology "products" are aimed at women in that age group, as are products from the "anti aging" industry, the "body image" industry, the "holistic wellness" industry and the "new age spirituality" industry...the "feel good" industries.
Perhaps the broader issue to be discussed is the chunk of consumer spending by women aged 35-55 on "feel good" ephemera "products", most of which can be replaced by reading some Dale Carnegie.
see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dale_Carnegie
In fact, his writings pretty much oppose the "victim of others" mantra in favour of self-responsibility:
"Responsibility assumption is a doctrine in the personal growth field holding that each individual has substantial or total responsibility for the events and circumstances that befall them in their life. While there is little that is notable about the notion that each person has at least some role in shaping their experience, the doctrine of responsibility assumption posits that the individual's mental contribution to his or her own experience is substantially greater than is normally thought."
I take my general position of positive thinking and "you make your own luck" point of view from the theory of responsibility assumption.
To my way of thinking, personal development issues such as boundary setting are best discussed and implemented by looking not at what other people do/don't do...but by evaluating what you yourself stand for as a person, what you are prepared to accept in given circumstances and what you are willing to reject in given circumstances...then acting upon your Personal Code accordingly.
Ultimately, it's a whole lot easier to change yourself than it is to change others.
| |
|
| Boundaries
Posted: 1/20/2008 2:19:15 PM | Geez we think differently MM.
Why I do agree with the quoted Dale Carnegie comment I can't say I really agree with yours and actually see it as a potential for causing conflict with those around you. Therefore fullfilling Carnegie's prediction that you are responsible for these situations.
To my way of thinking, personal development issues such as boundary setting are best discussed and implemented by looking not at what other people do/don't do...but by evaluating what you yourself stand for as a person, what you are prepared to accept in given circumstances and what you are willing to reject in given circumstances...then acting upon your Personal Code accordingly
By not looking at what other people do or don't do when it comes to their boundaries you can be inadvertenly violating them consistently. If you are only paying attention to your personal code it can come in conflict with the personal codes of others.
It's not about being overly sympathetic but acknowleding that their boundaries are just as important as your own because otherwise, you are being demeaning. People who behave that way are often excluded. They might even have a great idea squashed because they forgot that their idea was contingent on the support of those they demeaned.
A person in this situation might think the others they are dealing with are short-sighted when it was their short-sightedness that caused the situation to begin with.
Ultimately, it's a whole lot easier to change yourself than it is to change others. You can't change others but you can help make them aware. So many times I hear people say things like, "if I was doing something wrong why didn't they just tell me" . A person can't change themselves if they are unaware they have an issue.
p.s. not really sure where you got that boundary issues were almost exclusively issues for women in their mid 30s to mid 50s but am wondering if you have personal boundary issues with women in their mid 30s to mid 50s.
| |
|
| Boundaries
Posted: 1/20/2008 3:54:56 PM | I see no point (much of the time) in "helping make others aware"of their "issues"...it's usually a complete waste of time.
Take my original post for example...did it help change the way You think? (nope)
I say...look after your own fences.
If someone jumps over your fence without permission, toss them out, unceremoniously.
If you jump someone else's fence...you should be prepared for a fight and have bandages back at the ranch for when you get home. | |
|
| Boundaries
Posted: 1/21/2008 9:06:42 AM |
Take my original post for example...did it help change the way You think? (nope)
Well see there you go, communication issues. I never saw anything in your post that was supposed to change the way I think. In fact I really believe in all the links you posted and they seemed to back up my original point and really didn't have much to do with your own philosphies. In all honesty, I find the links you post only support your opinions if a person doesn't actually read them.
Boundary issue: You've set the bar pretty low for your own credibility. Therefore I, (the person's fence who you don't care about), has had to set a boundary that I can't really listen to much MM says and take it as fact. If he thinks his links are supporting his opinions then I don't have much faith in his judgement.
If you think people want to fight over boundary issues then you are wrong. Most people just want to be treated fairly and respected. If you are insisting they fight, like you most definately do here in these forums, then they will throw up boundaries specifically designed to keep you out simply to avoid that level of conflict.
Life has enough stress without having to constantly defend your borders. | |
|
|
Home
login 
