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Posted: 1/21/2008 1:54:13 PM | Ok…it’s been months since I have had sex with my wife. My concern is that I don’t really care. Now…I love my wife very much in so many different ways but I will spare you the quantification.
Brief background…she has some medical problems; mainly back problems. The problems are not debilitating or keeping her from performing sexually but she does seem to be in pain frequently. Yes she is seeking help for these problems and I am doing all I can to make sure she does not over exert herself…cook, clean, laundry, etc…
We have had our differences, as all couples do, and plenty of great moments as well. We have two wonderful children that are still very young, three and five. I would have to say that the sex started to taper off just before our first child was conceived. She wouldn’t let me touch her for most of her pregnancy. Her second pregnancy was a little better but not much. After her pregnancies she spoke to her doctor about her libido. Her doctor suggested a different birth control pill. I told her that I would do one better and I went and spoke to my doctor. Now she no longer needs birth control.
We are older than you might expect and we have been together over 15 years. To quantify our sexual relationship, we have sex maybe once a month or less. It really got to me for the longest time. I would try to stir up the passion with a nice dinner and a backrub or whatever came to mind and I would get the cold shoulder. This happened so often for so long I quit trying. We talked about it from time to time but nothing ever changed. Now I am to the point that I do not care if we have sex or not. The other night she woke me up and tried to get me excited and I couldn’t perform. This was the first time this happened. I kept thinking…I…I…don’t really want to. After trying for a while I made an excuse that I was really to tired and we went to sleep. I love my wife but how do you talk about something like this. Hi honey how was your day? (kiss kiss) Hope your meeting went well. Yes I had a wonderful day, and oh by the way…you don’t have to worry about sex tonight…you really don’t excite me anymore. No…it’s me…really. I guess since we don’t do it regularly, or even once in a while, I’ve lost interest.
Is this normal? Is this some sort of self preservation mode I’m in? I’m sure that I will here plenty of “seek counseling” responses but what I am really after is has anyone out there experienced these feelings before or am I unique? Of course counseling is always an option but hell nine times out of ten they are not telling me something I don’t already know.
~Thanks in advance~ | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 2:02:44 PM | Well, I'm not a man, but speaking as a woman I can relate to seemingly loosing interest in sex with a significant other. I recently had a similiar experience with someone I'm dating whose never had an issue with his libido or rising to the occassion for intercourse, but lately he's been having bouts of simply loosing 'it'.
My immediate thought is he is no longer interested in me, but quite frankly it was a physical thing he couldn't do a thing about. You had mentioned talking to your wife about her lost libido...so why can't you talk to her about yours. I don't think that she's lost her desirableness ( if that's even a word), but maybe you are suffering from a lil bit of erectile dysfunction.
Relationships have their ups and downs...maybe you just need to relax or possibly see your doctor. Good luck. | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 2:26:53 PM | usually when one partner looses interest in sex, there is something deeper creating that lack of interest... something is being neglected and or rejected. It is very difficult to talk about these things to your partner because the last thing you want to do is create guilt or more stress in the relationship - but there are some serious intimacy issues that haven't been addressed.
You haven't shared much and like you said "seek counseling" may be the wisest choice... but what you have shared told me something about you already... you both have negative association when it comes to sexual intimacy.
She has trained you not to ask by rejecting your previous attempts (as you put it she gave you the cold shoulder after you continuously put effort into pleasing her). No one enjoys having their loving efforts rejected - it hurts even deeper when it is the person we love. She has also been in physical pain so now you worry that anything you do with her will cause her pain... talk about a double whammy! No matter what you do you your feelings will be hurt and she could potentially be physically hurt.
As you said in your post - you love your wife and it shows... your lack of sex drive is a result of you not wanting to ever be rejected again, and you also not wanting to hurt her. Bitterness, anger, disappointment, rejection, frustration, are all feelings that you may have gone through in reaching the point where you are.
I don't know you - I know nothing about you other than what you wrote, but I have talked to too many married men (hundreds in fact when researching for my book) who have also gone through the exact same thing not to recognize potential patterns.
You already know the "why" you feel that way... perhaps all you seek is validation. But you still have choices - you can stay the way things are and hope that the sexless relationship survives (most don't) - or you can reclaim the romance and passion you once shared with your wife (even if you aren't currently interested in sex).
Kay | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 2:29:18 PM | Can I ask what the usual routine for you is, in terms of obtaining sex from her? Do you just wait and let it happen naturally, or do you ask for it frequently and get turned down alot? You had me convinced that I wrote this piece until I got to the children's ages, as mine are 5 and 9. Everything else is the same. My ex-wife had chronic neck and back pains, stemming from a fall and subsequent neck surgery to repair and fuse her vertebrae. She had a healthy sex drive, almost insatiable so I thought, up until she conceived our first child. Granted it was only three months we'd been together when she got pregnant, and she was a mere 15 at the time (I was 17.....not a perv!) I just assumed this was her libido and not youth and giving me what she thought I wanted. I stayed with her for 10 years until we finally split this past spring. And I can tell you the one complaint she constantly had when I'd talk to her about our lack of a sex life. She told me she wished I would touch her and not want to sleep with her every time. Now I didn't try and get her into bed at every chance. The only time I would try and initiate anything was at bed time bc she didn't like sex during the day or anytime when the kids were awake, if they happened to have gone out to play at the park or something for a while. It was always at night. I am a very touchy feely person. I woudln't grope and manhandle but rub her back gently while she was doing something in the kitchen or rub her legs while sitting ont he couch. But somehow that always translated into me wanting sex. I asked EVERY night for probably 8 years, aside from when she was sick or visibly in pain from either her back problem or some form of physical activity, and was successful maybe once every three months. Eventually I got sick and tired of being told no that I stopped trying altogether, which is about when I obviously started being accused of cheating began. I never cheated on her but it seems fishy how a man just stops asking one day. But a person can only take so much rejection before they quit trying for a while, right?
Now my ex saying that she'd like me to just touch her without wanting to sleep with her would likely change her attitude around but I did try this for a couple months. I'd cuddle in bed and not make any attempts for a couple weeks, and then I'd try and she'd get right into me immediately about always wanting sex, and how it'd been nice not having to say no all these weeks. SAY YES FOR ONCE DAMNIT! If I get it once I'm usually fine for a few days! I don't need it every day. If I get it I'm happy but otherwise I don't start getting that itch for 4 or 5 days. I spoke to a counsellor abut this and he told me to do exactly what I was doing. But I told him it was already tried and didn't work out in my favour. But perhaps it would work for you if this is the scenario here. She went to her doctor and got some sort of cream but it was very messy. She got a little excited on the cream but it was very uncomfortable apparently and I can see why. Try smearing yourself with Zincofax and let me know how it works out for ya! LOL I can't imagine it was a nice feeling. We were also suggested to try anti-depressants. I think my ex's issues stemmed from deep seeded psychological/emotional pain that she had refused to deal with from her past. But I don't think she told this to the doctor when she went for help about the libido problem. She enjoyed the act when we'd get to it but otherwise it seemed like SUCH a chore.
You're self-preservation mode is likely your body settling for your wife's inaction. You obviously love this woman or you'd be extremely unhappy and want out of the marriage. This is one of the main reasons my marriage collapsed. When I finally gave in and quit asking I become miserable, which made her miserable, and we grew so far apart. We were very different people to begin with but this just stuck the nail in the coffin! I'd make sure all the lines of communication are wide open with her and be very honest about your feelings. | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 2:37:39 PM | | Well Kay...you've either done your research or you are psychic. I'm actually a bit emotional reading your response. Of course there's much more to my story; far more than a posting on here could tolerate. Like so many others...I'm alone in this. I thought this would be a good forum to seek advice. Thank you all for your time and your responses. I appreciate it. | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 2:42:20 PM | Well OP, thanks for a candid and very disturbing glimpse at your life.
I have no idea really. Im just femme watching. And this is going to be a femmemagnet. Think your kinda stretching the truth. It obviously bugs U. Or U wouldnt be posting it. And rejection, iz rejection, iz rejection. Which can lead to say, resentment. And a gazillion other things that are a major wedge in a relationship.
Cuz what happens, when your inwardly doubting how U feel about your SO. Or inwardly wondering, if their wondering the same.Doubt, mistrust, resentment ? It could turn into a viscious circle, spiral etc. Which of course everybody would say "good communication". But sometimes gc either isnt right or realistic. And so your stuck guy.
What to do about a 15yr marriage with 2 young kids involved. That could be failing ? Good question, I have no farking idea. Hey mister married guy. What are U doing on pof anyway ?  Trying to pull a few in ? Sighs nm, Im jaded. gdluck peeps.
me.
PS, after having read your pfile OP. I dont know what to make of U. U sound like a genuine intel, nice guy. Fecking internet never know. laterz folks. OR :) A genuine, intel, nice line of crap, fecking internet. :D | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 2:45:50 PM | original poster,
i cannot speak to her reasons for lack of libido or your mutual loss of interest, but speaking from personal experience i can more or less dismiss the back issues as a cause of your troubles. i was in a four year relationship with a woman with moderate back issues, and though it was painful for her at times we were both very much satisfied. her back was eventually surgically corrected; our sex lives were not affected as a result.
her lack of libido is likely a hormonal issue, and your dysfunction with each other might be solved through a combination of proper medication, and counselling. if left untreated your relationship will likely falter.
as/re this comment, "Of course counseling is always an option but hell nine times out of ten they are not telling me something I don’t already know." okay. but the problem is you are not taking the action that is clearly needed to save your relationship. it almost seems to me like you are simply letting it fall apart because you think since her libido faltered first, it is her fault and you are therefore not accountable for the demise of the relationship.
what you need to consider is that her lack of libido may well be beyond her control and not a conscious rejection of you. your resentment of her may seem completely justified to you but may be completely unfounded in the first place. if you /want/ this relationship to continue, you need to take the reins and do your part to bring it back on track. you can start by taking stock of what you really know and seeking real answers to what you don't, and the best way to do that is through, you guessed it, counselling.
since you have instead joined a dating site, i have to wonder if my words havent fallen on deaf ears. you seem to have all the answers you need; it is what you do with those answers that will make or break your relationship. theres more than just you and her riding on this decision; i can count at least two very young reasons to consider. think about what youve got before you throw it away. good luck | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 2:49:07 PM | OP one thing I forgot to mention that I thought of after my marriage was already long over unofficially was to try and rekindle the past romance. Go back to the courting stage of your relationship. What excites you? Try and get out without the kids more, just the two of you, and go to a park for a picnic, to the beach, to the museum or gallery, for dinner, try new things, seek adventure and as much as your bodies and minds will allow. If you could handle sky diving then do it! If not try something more tame. Just look for ideas to get the two of you laughing together and having lots of fun, and perhaps a spark will ignite. But unfortunately we don't have enough information on your relationship to really base a suggestion accurately here. You may have a great relationship with her outside of the bedroom. I don't know.
wthUagain101, you just described me in a nutshell. Doubt, mistrust, and boat loads of resentment. I resented her for things aside from the lack of sex but it was a big one too. I felt very alone in the relationship and the lack of sex really took it home. | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 3:01:11 PM | | I would say if you have been married for awhile then you have experienced this. With my first wife she had a medical problem, and in fact, we had to go to the hospital the day after we were married. Intrepenasios (spelling). A lot of woman suffer from this. It thems they get frequent infections and it hurts to have sex. I got like you and I didn't want sex because I was afraid I would hurt her. We went through counseling and saw medical doctors, but we also talked openly about it. My advice to you is just "open up" in your on way and talk about it. We ended up in a divorce due to goals, but we still love each other even today. | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 3:02:34 PM |
...don't really care...
If one or both of you have moved to that stage, you may have to accept that the relationship could be so damaged that it can't be saved. If you both are willing to try counseling to work on your individual issues, there's a chance that at some point in the future you might be able to work on the relationship.
If you're truly looking for normal, I think counseling will be very enlightening for you. As someone who was in a similar situation, I discovered that I did indeed have co-dependency and avoidant personality traits, both of which were pretty easy to understand and work through. I also realized that my (soon to be ex-) wife's issues crossed over from "traits" to "disorders", and no amount of chores/cleaning, romancing was going to be enough. She's looking at many more years of therapy to rebuild the damage caused by miserable parents, but those are her issues, not mine. "For bettor, for worse, in sickness and in health" was a promise I didn't make lightly, but when she made it clear she would make no effort to work on the relationship, it became impossible to continue.
I can tell you, the sex is soooo much better with someone who cares about you | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 3:04:19 PM | My ex of many years remarried a woman who turned totally frigid on him as well. He finally gave up asking too. When they did finally divorce he met a wonderful woman with a feisty libido. He told me that at first he had to use viagra but then it was like his body remembered how to ride a bike so to speak & he hasn't needed them since. They have a healthy love life & a beautiful relationship in general. By the way, my ex & I are very dear friends, obviously, or I wouldn't know such intimate details.
About the pain part, when a person has an orgasm, the body releases endorphins which are the body's natural pain killers. Getting a big O is like getting a pain pill without the toxic byproducts.
On the pregnancy issues; hormonal changes in a woman's body can be significant when pregnancy occurs. In some cases it never gets normalized again. However there are lots of options to deal with that. For some, a good doctor can help. For me, their stuff made me nutso & my body rebelled so I chose natural alternatives & wound up with far more pleasant & long lasting results.
Part of the psycological issues for a lot of women...in my humble opinion as a woman; is that we are raised that "good girls don't do that." We get caught in a paradox & our minds don't know how to be "a good girl" & a good wife at the same time. I married very young & it was something I came to understand was battling inside me. I was raised to view sex with my husband as something akin to washing the dishes. You just had to get through it & it would be over soon. The fact that it 's messy & using diaphrams & such are painful as well as an ordeal to deal with made it pretty overwhelming sometimes, but getting pregnant again was not an option. The fear of pregnancy hanging overhead is always a fear that lurks in the back of the mind & the fisrt thing a woman has to do to enjoy sexual activity is to relax.
In my years of involuntary celibacy (with a few interruptions) I have noticed that after the first month or so, my body starts to forget about it & there is no longer that driving urge. My ex told me that his conclusion was that if you don't use it, ya lose it. | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 3:06:23 PM | | never mind .. I just decided I would be much better off avoiding threads initiated by married people. | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 3:06:49 PM | it could be that you've slipped into a kind of "friend mode" with her... if you wanted to get back sexual interest there are all sorts of ways to try to do that - teasing one another, reading erotica together, leaving little notes for each other saying what you'd like to do to and with each other.. but they all involve both partners wanting to restore the libido... and it doesn't sound like that's what's happening (unless she tries again tonight... ...i heard on a "sex topic show", that it takes a woman five years after the birth of her last child before she fully feels "herself" again... so could she be reaching that stage?... of course, i'm sure that depends on the individual)
it could also be a symptom of depression, too much stress, or a symptom of a physical problem which a doctor would need to diagnose...etc (...might be worthwhile making sure it's not physical just to rule out certain conditions which can cause difficulties..)
if you're happy together without sex then i'd say be happy that you're not feeling frustrated any longer and enjoy each other the way you are.... you're still in love with one another after all those years - you're ahead of many, just with that...
if you're not happy with the way things are, then i think you really need to let her know that and yes, get counseling together to work through the deeper issues involved...
good luck
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Posted: 1/21/2008 3:07:23 PM | | I have not had sex since dec 06 and wow dont miss it. Even tho he is the best lover I have ever had since my late husband,,,he lost interest due to personal problems,,,,and now he just wants an activity partner,,,whatever the hell that is. | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 3:07:42 PM | deuce98 after having read your pfile. I pronounce U a for real good guy type. Which is something I hardly ever, ever, ever do. :D Im not just jaded, online Im double jaded.
But U seem like an earnest intelligent man to me. So hope things are going to go better with the femme's this time around. SINCERELY GOOD LUCK DOOD.
Looks at the OP, :D U I havent been able to pidgeon hole yet. People fascinate me what can I say. But U do seem intelligent anyway. And if your on here looking for something else, or something extra. That your not getting at home. Then I have no moral objections. :D I mean if this post is for real. Then happy fishing.  Dont blame ya a bit.
d.
PS, .... AlienS's damn girl, tell us how ya feel. Dont minch words, just come right out and say it, lol. And  | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 3:08:38 PM | I understand the speculation of my sicerity but I assure you that I am not here to seek other women. I have put it out there that I'm married and I am not trying to fool anyone. If there was a marriage only counselling/advice forum I would be there instead.
Yeah Duece...been down that road too. I still just give her back rubs and foot massages just to make her feel good. No expectation. We go out to dinner, movies, spent time with or without the kids. We have fun...we just don't seem to have sex. I've given up on initiating in fear of being turned down and she rarely initiates. There must be deeper rooted issues that I'm unaware of but how do we get those out...even with a counselor? If she doesn't want to talk I can't make her.
I guess my concern now is that I'm so use to rejection that I've given up on sex. I mean even when she initiates I'm the one that doesn't want it anymore. At least that happened once. But see...it's not that I can't perform...I just don't care if we do or not anymore. When she tried getting me excited the other night all I could think about is...why? Why tonight? We haven't had sex in over a month so what makes tonight special? That's why I couldn't perform. But I don't want to stay this way...I guess I need to just discuss this with her and say what's on my mind... | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 3:11:22 PM | | I don't think it will matter much what mood you set or how kind you are if she has lost her sex drive. She'll know or suspect your reasons for the nice dinner are to be more intimate. She will start to resent when you do nice things because she’ll know part of your agenda is to get physical. She will also be dealing with her own guilt. Sexless relationships rarely work. I was in a very similar situation but I didn’t even have it monthly. We finally split up. I did not realize how sad and unfulfilled I was until I left. Many people will say that too much importance is placed on sex. I think that level of communication in a relationship is critical to the health of the relationship. Without it, each person will feel rejected, resentments will develop and it will most certainly fail. | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 3:16:29 PM | Withuagain101, I married for the wrong reasons (children) and stayed with it for the wrong reasons (again, children). I will never settle again, and things have been wicked since I left in that department. It's been 10 years since I remotely dated and I feel like a new man with a whole new bag of tricks! If I had half the knowledge I do now at 16 I would have been deadly! LOL And yes, I'd like to think I'm one of the rare ones.
Do you want the relationship to be repaired? You can't speak for her and say she won't talk. If she loves you and wants you in this relationshp and fears you'll leave she'll open up likely. Maybe you need to have a real heart to heart with her if you are unhappy about the sexless marriage and tell her that something needs to give, even if it's just the process of working toward solving any deep seeded troubles of the mind or body together. If she feels like you are unhappy or wanting more out of your relatinoship and she wants to stay in it she'll try. If not, she'll keep doing what she's doing OR sabotage it further to attain a goal. It's a hard pill to swallow but it may be something you need to look at. Just be prepared for what might come of it all! As for you not being able to perform, it's likely due to the fact that you are afraid of hurting her. ANd perhaps it happened last night because she is noticing you are upset and have stopped trying and feels the need to win you back. | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 3:31:53 PM | There are so many things it could be.
Having young children can be exhausting, if she's fine healthwise, then it could be that she just feels more like "just mommy" than a sexy, desirable woman. Even though you may see her that way, if she doesn't then that could definitely contribute.
As much as you're able, make sure she has some "alone" time to do things for herself. Maybe suggest she buy a new outfit, something that looks good on her. I know it may sound frivolous, but a new dress, haircut...can make a woman feel sexy if it makes her look good.
Other than that, not many other suggestions to offer other than trying to ask her why she's not wanting sex. But she may not know herself, just doesn't feel the desire.
Hopefully it's just be a stage, sure it's not pleasant while it lasts, but try to stay optimistic that it probably won't last.
Just continue to be a good husband, and props to you for stepping in and taking some of the workload off her. It sounds like you're really doing everything you know how to. Try to stay positive. | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 3:45:00 PM | I can't say it works for me, since I am single and no imtimate partner at this time.
However, I have come to realize that I must make decisions that are good for ME. I think it is admirable to honor marriage and the committment to stay a couple forever, but I also believe it is NOT an all-perils inclusive committment.
If your partner is not on board with you, is not willing to communicate and work on everyday solutions, I would be ending that relationship, BECAUSE it is not a RELATIONSHIP !
Living single, without sex, is way better than putting up with a crappy 'committment'.
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Posted: 1/21/2008 3:48:41 PM | So.. Now it would appear that we have two people in this marriage wherein sex doesn't appear to matter anymore... at least with each other. If you BOTH want to regain your sexual function with one another then I think you both should go to see your family doctor, sit down with him and discuss the lack of drive you both appear to have.
There is medication out there for both male and females that increase libido. Tell your wife that you are concerned that the lack of interest on both your parts is making you fearful that the marriage will eventually dessolve and that you need to take action.. The Dr. is a good place to start.
Then....
Take two porno's and whatever meds the Dr. prescribes and call us in the morning!;0)
Good luck.. you sound genuine in your concerns and I hope things work out for you.
(Does anyone else wonder if the Op's situation is how some Open Marriages begin????) | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 4:04:54 PM | OP, it's not unusual at all for someone who is rejected over and over again to lose his desire for the thing that he's constantly told he can't have. If I'm reading you right this has been going on for years rather than months, and it has obviously taken its toll on you.
You say you love your wife, but I guess what I'm wondering is what form that love you feel actually takes. I personally think (although many may differ) that part of romantic love IS sexual connection, and that while love may remain without that, it's a different kind of love than most of us want to feel for (and from) our spouses. I love all kinds of people, but that's not the same as wanting to be a life-long other half to someone. What I'm saying is that if you honestly have "lost interest" in having sex with your wife, perhaps the love you feel for her is the love of a caring friend (without benefits) or even (for lack of a better term) parent. You are obviously VERY concerned with her well-being, and have a fantastic sense of integrity when it comes to the possibility of betraying your marriage with an affair, but is it not possible that joining this website (pretty recently) is evidence that you are maybe starting to look elsewhere for romance...even if from afar...and even if not wholly consciously?
Truly, I'm not bringing your integrity into question by asking that. I think you are in a terrible situation. Most of us crave romance and fantasy--and with rare exceptions I think it's ludicrous to suppose that we can live our lives without that kind of stimulation--without feeling DESIRED, at least sometimes, and absolutely without feeling desire for others in something more than a wholly remote way.
Sadly, if the story you tell is the real deal, I would doubt very seriously that this problem is going to be solved with sex games and romantic gestures. If you want to save your marriage--and perhaps more importantly, if your WIFE wants to save HER marriage--surely you will have to get some serious outside help, along with a major commitment on both your parts to address whatever it is that is causing this sexual indifference. The sad thing is that if you have lost your desire for her it makes it an even higher hurdle to overcome--one partner's sexual indifference is hard enough to cope with, but BOTH partners'? I think many in this thread have been focusing on techniques for helping HER solve HER problem, but now, of course, the problem of sexual indifference is coming from two directions.
You guys could go on like this forever... and if you do you do. But you are relatively young and I can't imagine that a sexless future forever is what you want--or obviously you wouldn't have posted this problem. You rather poo poo the idea of counseling in the last line of your post, but if not that then WHAT? | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 5:07:44 PM | Another "as a woman" response here...
I have a very high libido and I've found that if my partner isn't meeting my sexual needs and I'm getting frustrated and feel like I have to push him or "fight" to get sex, I do tend to lose my desire to have sex with him...
Who wants to have sex with someone you have to *convince* to have sex with you? Seriously, it's like the ultimate rejection -
"I want to make love/have sex with you."
"*sigh* Fine. Let's just do it and get it over with..."
Oooh baby. Turn me right on... not.
(Not that I've ever heard those words, but just the general feeling that one gets when your partner isn't as excited/interested in sex as you are).
I really believe that after so much rejection, you do lose your libido and it is directly related to your partner.
Sex and libido are among the "use it or lose it" things in life. | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 5:16:04 PM | | LOL I HAVE heard those words from my exwife when we were still together. Talk about a blow to the ego. I always felt like such a dirty molester. I can recall a few times where she got annoyed with me asking and did the whole FINE, JUST DO IT ALREADY SO I CAN GET TO SLEEP, and I'd leave and go sleep on the couch without going any further bc I felt like such a heel. It was demoralizing. | |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 10:52:21 PM | FINE, JUST DO IT ALREADY SO I CAN GET TO SLEEP, and I'd leave and go sleep on the couch without going any further bc I felt like such a heel. It was demoralizing.
"No sugar tonight in my coffee
No sugar tonight in my tea
No sugar to stand beside me
No sugar to run with me
Da do da da...
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