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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/24/2008 7:55:53 AM | When Israel built a wall to protect itself from suicide-murderers (who were killing young women, old women, children, men), there was a subsequent (and unbelievably stupid) outcry from the usual "international" suspects (you know, the ones that hate the USA).
Fast forward to a few days ago:
there is that fence between Egypt and Gaza that was blown up.
Who even KNEW about it?
Where were the international suspect whiners?
Where was the media, who had been propagandizing for Hamas et al?
And don't give me the humbug about this fence being originally built by Israel, because it was the border of EGYPT and "PALESTINE".
And the border was maintained by Egyptian security.
Blast Israel, but Egypt? No problem. Duh, what fence?
It is a typical gross double standard.
The typical anti-Semite propaganda.
Including on NBC Nightly News.
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/24/2008 8:13:49 AM | huh?
isreal isnt an actual country
it is a suburb of palestine, stolen from them by the international community and sold to the jewish people after ww2 , since they financed most of it.
as far as them building a wall? well who cares , im sure most countries have borders and these include security measures to keep other people out
be it a fence, a wall, a moat etc
keep your pro semitic propaganda in your head
does it truly bother u someone somewhere said something negative about a fence being blown up?
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Israel built a wall to protect itself from suicide-murderers (who were killing young women, old women, children, men
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how many women and children exactly hung out on the border where this wall was built? do you actually believe any intelligent person would accept this silliness?
obviously whatever motivation the bombers or guerillas or whatever u want to call them needed , was given to them by other sickos on either side of the border as well.
funny how isreal would like to be sen as a nation of peace and loving enlightenment to the international community , yet they have nuclear missiles and a far mor deadly military force than any of their neighbors
if your neighbor was armed to the teeth and encroached on your territory , how else would you defend yourself? especially since u arent as well funded and armed by the americans etc
shootin lil missiles into small towns and villages is alot less of a worry than sending in armadas of attack helicopters and fighter jets and wiping out women and children
then by cutting off fuel supplies and other things people need to survive just shows isreal for the bullies they truly are
my comments arent anti jewish , as i could care less for any culture
as they are no different a race than the rest of us , merely a separate culture. | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/24/2008 8:41:26 AM | The BBC is all over it.
Egypt built that wall presumably to preserve the 'peace' (such as it were...) with Israel.
But will turn a blind eye if the Palestinians in Gaza blast it to smithereens to be able to go shopping in Egypt.
Not hard to understand. | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/24/2008 8:56:34 AM | It certainly takes the teeth out of Isreal's blockade!
Hamas did it, Egypt knew...so what?
As far as the comment about Israel not being a State/Nation I disagree about that one. | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/24/2008 9:31:35 AM | Israel is an apartheid state, taken by conquest. There is nothing wrong with that. It's survival of the fittest out there. Jews are not strong in number. But they are clever from having been opressed for centuries. Clever enough to ally with America and the United States national interest which lies right in Israel's back yard, under the Arab's sand.
So while Israel can call itself the Jewish state and the only democracy in the Middle East, what we know is they are an American proxy state. Subsisting off American aid, military and economic. Israel exists for one purpose only and that is to defend America's oil. America pays the bills for Israel's huge military and the Israeli welfare state which offers a monthly stipend to anyone who calls himself a Jew and is willing to endure service in the Israeli Defence Forces protecting America's oil.
Its no wonder zionists have so much time to go online and accuse anyone who opposes US policy of being anti-semite. Jews are wonderful people with a rich tradition of learning, piety and family values. It is a shame that tradition has been corrupted by a few simple-minded nationalist zionists, Jews in name only, exploiting the suffering of other Jews for the greed and ambition of a very few. | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/24/2008 12:48:22 PM |
there is that fence between Egypt and Gaza that was blown up.
Who even KNEW about it?
I knew within the hour. That you didn't says more about you than "the media".
Some context is requited here too.
The Palastinian territories (Gaza and the West Bank) were invaded by Israel in 1967 and have been under Israeli military occupation continusouly since then. Both sides are violent, and while I do not approve of violence by either side it must be noted that Palastinian violence is defensive in nature - they're trying to repel an occupying miliary force. Israeli violence on the other hand is an offensive military action outside their own borders and has been condemed by the UN. Only the US veto of any action proposed by the UN allows Israel to continue; Israel has the second largest army in the world comprised mostly of arms sold and given to them by the US. Palastinians act with rocks, Israel responds with F16s.
The wall was destoryed because Israel cut off the supply of electricity to Gaza. That is, they stopped the supply of energy to a place outside their own borders. No electricity means no heat, no hospitals. No nothing.
Short of just gassing all the Palastinians (how ironic) what more could they do and can you really blame the Gazans for wanting to get out by the only means afforded them? It's not like they can go into Isreal and if you look at a map there's nowhere else to go.
Would you sit there and wonder when Israel is going to turn the lights back on?
Note also that "anti semitic" might not be what you mean here. "Semite" is a race of people from the Arab peninsula. Most Jewish people in Isreal are from European descent and many have only been there a few years; the Palastinians have been there for millenia and actually are a semitic people; there are semitic Jews to be sure, but really not that many by comparison and are a subset of Israeli Jews. Judaism is a religion, not a "race". If you hate blacks or Chinese you're a racist - those are races. If you hate Jews you're a religous bigot (and a moron) but this is not "racism" it's plain old fashioned bigotry. | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/24/2008 2:08:26 PM | trubblemaker stated: "isreal isnt an actual country"
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comment: no. But Israel is.
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wolfie stated: "The BBC is all over it."
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comment: I am not talking about this particular destruction of the wall. I am talking about the past approx 5 to 10 years of everybody in the "international community"
b!T@#!N@ about Israel's wall, but nobody even realized (you NEVER saw anything of it) that the EGYPTIANS were keeping the Palestinians in, and they are presumably allies.
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singleforever states: "Israel is an apartheid state, taken by conquest"
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comment: yeah. Like Kosovo, and Turkey, and Pakistan, etc. For crying out loud, it's the 21st century. Israelites have lived there for 4,000 years. If THAT status quo is not acceptable, then it's time for us to "reclaim" Iran for the Zoroastrians.
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frankster states: "Good to see not all Americans are in the Israelis pocket."
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comment: who's in whose pockets? It is a matter of peace, equity (at least a modicum, a token), justice, etc. The poor Israelis have one little strip of land. Oh, horrors! I'm in their pocket! For crying out loud.
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rsx states: "I knew within the hour. That you didn't says more about you than "the media"."
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comment: jumping jupiter! I was talking NOT about the destruction in the last couple of days of the Egyptian-Palestinian fence! I was talking about the fact that almost NOBODY EVEN KNEW THERE WAS ONE. The media and the usual suspects were too busy B!+@#!Ng about the Israeli wall, you know, the one that is allowing them to survive. Survive?!?! Oh, horrors. | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/24/2008 2:20:43 PM | It's pretty traditoinal to have some sort of physical barrier at borders.
The media and the usual suspects were too busy B!+@#!Ng about the Israeli wall, you know, the one that is allowing them to survive. Survive?!?! Oh, horrors.
"spin"
the Israeli wall, you know, the one that is allowing them to survive.
... in their own country.
Now, what about Israel letting Palastinians survive in their own land that Israel is illegally occupying and has been for 40 years? | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/24/2008 2:28:36 PM | rsx states: "Now, what about Israel letting Palastinians survive in their own land that Israel is illegally occupying and has been for 40 years?"
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comments:
a) the UN established Israel
b) the Israelis have been there about 4,000 years
c) why the duplicity, fussing about Israel, yet no problems with other "conquests" in the area (do I have to name some again?)
d) we aint talking about but a sliver of land on this earth | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/24/2008 6:12:24 PM | rsx states: "Now, what about Israel letting Palastinians survive in their own land that Israel is illegally occupying and has been for 40 years?"
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comments:
a) the UN established Israel
b) the Israelis have been there about 4,000 years
c) why the duplicity, fussing about Israel, yet no problems with other "conquests" in the area (do I have to name some again?)
d) we aint talking about but a sliver of land on this earth
Israel is a recognized state. There is no doubt about it. The U.N., however, did not establish Israel. It was the Irgun, Hagaanah and other militias that formed the forces of Israel and fought in 1948 for a state. There was a 1947 partition recommendation from the U.N. General Assembly that the Jewish side get 53% of the land and the Arabs get 47%, but it was not a Security Council resolution which is a binding resolution. Israelis have not been in Palestine for 4,000 years. They do have an old connection the land, no doubt as do the Palestinians. There has been an ancient Jewish presence in the Middle East in places like Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, and Iraq, where the Jews supposedly originate from when they were Hebrews. Israel is a state that is recognized across the world. It does have serious problems when it comes to ethnic cleansing the Palestinians, collective punishment and occupation of the West Bank. I am not stating that the terrorism from the Palestinian side when it comes to suicide bombers or the launching of missiles is justified, The situation at hand is not good for either the Palestinians or Israelis. I can understand Egypt feeling they don't want all those people in Gaza to starve. It's collective punishment and inhumane as much as I can't stand Hamas. Many Jews don't support the collective punishment of Gazans as much as they loathe Hamas. I think Hamas has helped create this current mess... | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/24/2008 7:25:41 PM | a) the UN established Israel
The UN has condemmed Isreal for occupation of the Palastinian terrirories, too. You can't claim "proof by authority" but pick and choose which truths you hold dear and which you feel you can ignore the UN also establihed the Palastinian territories. You seem to think it's ok for Israel to occupy Palastinian terrirories, but I doubt very much you'd be as happy if Palastinians occupied Israeli territories in defiance of UN resolutions.
b) the Israelis have been there about 4,000 years
Archeological evidence says otherwide.
There were two Jewish settlements years ago, neither particularly large, none were back then. One centered around Bethlehem called "Israel" and one centered around Jesusalem called "Judah".
Israel was taken over and wiped out by the Assyrians (although some scholars say the Babylonians) around 800BC. From a provable historical pespective Palastinians can claim a greater uninterrupted occupation of what is now the Waet Bank. What was then Judah is much much smaller than the current state of Israel.
Dr. Robert Beckford, looking for historical and archeological support for biblical claims points this out in part 3 of 12 (8 minutes long, you want to watch about 2-3 minutes in) of his recent documentary here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mnX80nwRJY
c) why the duplicity, fussing about Israel, yet no problems with other "conquests" in the area (do I have to name some again?)
d) we aint talking about but a sliver of land on this earth
I fail to discern any real meaning here. What are you trying to say?
Even the creation of Israel comes under some suspicion of interference. If you've seen "Lawrence of Arabia" you probably know the story - "Take Akaba and we'll grant you Arab self rule" was the word from the English about this land. They did, but the member of the house of Lords responsible for this decision was influenced (apparantly by Rothschild) to instead create Israel instead if granting Palastinian self rule. I've experiences first hand hatred from Arabs who mistook me for English because of this; once I explained I was Welsh, things were ok.
Bit it's all gone dowhill from there and 9/11 and Iraq are but some of the consequences of thie milenia old bloodbath that have taken millions of lives over the ages/
I absolutely support Israels right to live in peace, but whereas sympathies used to lie for Israel in the 50's and 60s in the past 20 years hard liners in Isreal (to be sure there are Israelis who despise the occupation of Palastinian territories) have behaved so badly public opinion seems to be turning sympathoes more to the Palastinians despite massive Israeli influence over US media which exists in no other country - even Israel. The US is the only country whose media never (or at best very seldom) says "occupied terrirories". Check for yourself. | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/24/2008 10:59:32 PM | Kosovo?
Kosovo is Serb and should remain Serb.
The albanians should go home to Albania.
I would like to see if the illegal immigrants in America started outbreeding the locals then tried to break away from the US , what would happen.
Correction.
Small communities lived in palestine before Israel.
In relative peace with their arab neighbours.
Then the European Jews came and founded the state of Israel, by force.
Now they push their neighbours around.
They have everything and the Palestinians have nuttin.
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/25/2008 9:22:32 AM | When Israel realizes that it's only hope for "true" peace is accepting the fact that it's an Arab country w/ a significant Jewish minority,this will all be over.
It's just getting them to accept that fact. | |
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mj999
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Joined: 10/28/2007
Msg: 15 | |
| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/25/2008 9:28:17 AM | trubblemakr: you say about Israel: " they have nuclear missiles and a far more deadly military force than any of their neighbors"
Think about the following:
There are Five hundred million Arabs, but only five million Jews; there would be no way Israel would exist today if it did not have the capability to defend itself.
Dennis Miller once said: "Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, everyone will be pals. What about the string of wars to obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea? Oh, that? We were just kidding". | |
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mj999
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Joined: 10/28/2007
Msg: 16 | |
| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/25/2008 9:32:48 AM | Learn your history Cocytus.
The Israelis had their land taken away from them more than a thousand years ago with the Roman invasion in AD 70. They were finally able to get it back in 1948 and this had nothing to do with any superpower as the matter was decided by a UN vote.
The Israelis have a legitimate claim to their land which goes back by more than 4,000 years. | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/25/2008 9:48:38 AM |
Learn your history Cocytus.
The Israelis had their land taken away from them more than a thousand years ago with the Roman invasion in AD 70. They were finally able to get it back in 1948 and this had nothing to do with any superpower as the matter was decided by a UN vote.
The Israelis have a legitimate claim to their land which goes back by more than 4,000 years.
Learn yours...
The people who live in Israel now are some of the same people who lived there 4,000 years ago.
They were Israelites and Semites that converted to Islam in the 700-800's BCE.
The reason that Israel was created was guilt over the Holocaust and the British being unable to maintain their colonies in Palestine.
The reason that Israel exists today is the financial support of this country and the implicit military threat of US intervention if anything seriously challenges Israel's existence.
The population of Israel and the surrounding Palestinian areas is majority Arab.
This isn't going to change any time in the near future and actually will increase in the next 25 years.
It would be rather foolish to believe that Israel can continue to subjugate a larger population than it's own citizens for any length of time and expect to successfully survive as any type of nation,democratic or otherwise.
Even w/ the United States' backing.
PS: The Romans were already IN Palestine prior to 70AD.I'm sure your familiar w/ the whole Jesus story. | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/25/2008 12:53:21 PM | Check out this video about propaganda. Two states created in 1948 Palestine and Israel. In 1967 Israel invaded Palestine and surrounding areas in response to Arab agression. But 40 years on there is still a brutal military dictatorship in the West Bank and Gaza. Despite numerous resolutions in the UN it is still there. Despite 33 vetoes by the US since 1967 they still claim they will organize the "peace process" and are impartial. Sadly there is too much profit to be made in that area fo it to ever happen. Follow the money this is multi billions of dollars here given in aid to israel which is then funnelled back to military industries and lobbyists in the US. Anyway check the link, the US public have been duped by the government the media and Israel remember this is your tax dollars.
http://quicksilverscreen.com/watch?video=17355 | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/25/2008 4:22:23 PM |
The Israelis have a legitimate claim to their land which goes back by more than 4,000 years.
"claim" has very specific meaning under state/provincial.federal and international law.
A patent application may go on for many many pages, but the only part that actually carries any weight is the "claims" section.
Claims are "requests for rights" and must be a) substantiated and b) granted these rights by some authority with the power to do so.
The majority European Jewish population now living in the middle east may have "a claim" but whether it's "legitimate" is not made true by asserting its truth value.
World opinion after WWII was "oh, poor sods" and public sentiment was on their side. General consensus was Israel was a good idea.
But if this keeps up, public sentiment will shift to the other side. And if the US suddenly decides Israel isn't worth the bother then, um, they have a big problem. One that can't be fixed by spin-doctoring. | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/25/2008 5:11:22 PM | | There are 200 million Arabs and 5 million Jews. Of course, Israel wouldn't exist if it didn't have the firepower and foreign backing it has. It doesn't mean the Palestinians should be occupied anymore than Hamas terrorism is okay. | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/26/2008 9:55:39 AM | First, I would like to clarify:
the point here is that on one hand, the wall between Israel and Palestine & Gaza has been castigated repetitively for the past bunch of years since Israel built this defensive wall
versus
on the other hand, the fence between Gaza and EGYPT has gone uncriticized.
Barely anyone even KNEW about it, until a few days ago, when it was dismantled, and the Gazans flocked to adjacent Egypt, which heretofore had been blocking movement.
Also, get a load of a recent AP story:
Israel says it wants to stop supplying electricity and water to Gaza
Did you even know that the wicked Zionists were supplying electricity and water to Gaza in the first place? Just stop and consider for a moment the implications of that fact in light of the febrile Leftist/jihadist rhetoric about Israel.
Here we have Gaza next to Egypt, but the international community has been forcing ISRAEL..... ooooo those wicked Jews!...to supply the Gazans with water and electricity.
How ironic.
How conveniently ignored by the international media.
Here is the AP story:
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JERUSALEM - A top Israeli defense official said Thursday that Israel wants to relinquish all responsibility for the Gaza Strip, including the supply of electricity and water, now that the territory's southern border with Egypt has been opened.
"We need to understand that when Gaza is open to the other side we lose responsibility for it," Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai said, according to his office. "So we want to disconnect from it."
It was not immediately clear if Vilnai spoke for the entire government.
"We want to stop supplying electricity to them, stop supplying them with water and medicine, so that it would come from another place," Vilnai said.
Israel will continue to be responsible for the flow of such supplies into the Gaza Strip until an alternative is found, the office quoted him as saying.
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/26/2008 10:23:44 AM | | Iraelis control the water and electricity supplies in Gaza and the West Bank. Holding an entire people to ransom. Gaza and the West Bank are part of the palestinian state their power and water supplies wholly controlled by a foreign power. It was only recently that the IDF left the gaza strip. They still occupy and rule by force of arms the west bank. Now they say the border across to Egypt is open we will cut power and water from them. No fresh water or electricty in schools, hospitals etc. Why because Palestinians are crossing the border and going into Egypt and shopping. Punish the ordinary people in Palestine for wanting the freedom to leave their country and go to another country to shop for goods they can't obtain anywhere else. Israel is running a military dictatorship in a foreign country. They could actually leave the country and let them have their own power and water supplies back, but somehow I doubt that will happen. | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/26/2008 10:48:33 AM | the only reason isreal hasnt been eradicated is because the usa protects and arms them, they should have been melded into the larger societies in the area if not for their vast control of the banks and money markets.
they paid the americans to give them their pretend homeland after ww2 even though it would throw the middle east into turmoil ever since
as welcoming neighbors in the past , the other middle east countries have been pushed under the thumb of isreal ever since,
if the americans were so great, how come they didnt give the isrealis a spot in florida to settle in and that way they would really be safe?
now look at what they do to their poorer neighbors. withholding energy andfuel supplies in order to squeeze them even more for daring to defend thier own borders
how long are the yanks going to hold up this group of sand pirates in isreal??
the true terrorists are the isrealis, however they push attention onto other countries by crying wolf everytime a different country dares to say anything negative about them. | |
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| International duplicity: Israel / Egypt, the wall
Posted: 1/26/2008 2:16:13 PM |
First, I would like to clarify:
the point here is that on one hand, the wall between Israel and Palestine & Gaza has been castigated repetitively for the past bunch of years since Israel built this defensive wall
versus
on the other hand, the fence between Gaza and EGYPT has gone uncriticized.
Barely anyone even KNEW about it, until a few days ago, when it was dismantled, and the Gazans flocked to adjacent Egypt, which heretofore had been blocking movement.
If I'm not mistaken,it was Israel's insistence that Egypt construct some type of barrier between Gaza and the Sinai.
Gaza and Egypt are sovereign countries.The wall between them primarily prevent weapons smuggling from Egypt to Gaza (which is only a threat to Israel) and performs the minor function of keeping Palestinian refugees from flooding Sinai border towns during times of unrest.Unrest,that is primarily provoked by Israeli incursions.
Since Israel (even during this crisis) rarely mentions the Gaza-Egypt barrier,one can conclude that this is because their oppression of Gaza heavily depends upon its existence. | |
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