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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 2:18:14 AM | I broke a the main water line from my well to my house a couple of days ago, and instead of fixing it myself, decided to call a Plumber. I one of the local Plumbers, who said he'd send someone out in the morning; there would be a trip charge for coming out, and I would be quoted a price for any work to be done.
This guy comes out and looks at it, and tells me what he thinks should be done, and it all sounded reasonable. Pipes on both sides of the pressure tank would have to be replaced, which involved about five feet of pipe, and about six fittings. He told me it would take about two hours to complete the whole job; since everything was above ground.
All of this sounded reasonable, until I got this guy's quote. It was going to be a total of $600 for him to do the job. I figured the job would run around $200, since everything was above ground, and it wouldn't take much work or time to be completed. I paid him is trip charge, and sent him packing. Thankfully, he didn't charge me full $95 trip charge, and only charged me $49; since he wasn't there more than ten minutes.
I know a couple of things about home repair, so, I decided to try my hand at fixing the problem myself. I went to Lowe's, got all of the needed parts, and some tools I didn't have, for $148. It took about two hours to complete the job, including wait time for the PVC glue to dry.
I don't mind paying someone for thier work, but, $300 an hour to fix pipes is beyond expensive.
Anyone else have similar experiences? | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 2:45:14 AM | No.
When I moved here a decade or so ago and noticed all the plumbers houses around here were bigger and nicer than the doctors houses I decided then to all myself. It aint hard really.
My kid wants to be a brain surgeon. I told him to be a fool and get a real trade, like plumbing. Not everyone has a brain, but everyone has plumbing. Usually. If they don't, they're fixin to get it real soon now. Can't lose either way. | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 2:47:43 AM | I've always thought that plumbers come into your home with their pants half down cause they're getting ready to screw you immediately... 
In reality... tradesmen are expensive... but from my viewpoint, worth the money spent. | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 4:28:55 AM | | i've never called anybody to do any work like that. it wouldn't even cross my mind... the first thing on my mind is how am i going to fix this? 90% of the time i don't even take my car to the shop unless its something i know i can't do. | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 5:15:00 AM | That's why I try to do things myself. I hate to get robbed and by all means, if a plumber, mechanic, carpenter, electrician...hell, you get the point, can take advantage of someone (more so being a female), they do.
I had a water leak and called someone. It was in my crawl space, a place I don't go. It took a less than $10 part and 15 minutes. I was charged $300. Because of this water leak, my bathroom floor warped. The same guy told me for $3900, not including the finished floor and how much drywall he would need to do, he could fix it. Gosh, when I was married I had a completely gutted bathroom, same size, new floor/sub floor, new electrical, new plumbing and even had the radiator moved from the floor to the wall....new glass block window, everything tiled with $200 of it being deco tiles...all for $10,000 and this guy want $3900+ and barely doing anything.
Needless to say, he got the $300 and won't be getting the remodel job. Some may ask why I even paid the $300...well, it was mid to the end of October and getting cold. I had a $200 water bill and an obvious leak, where my bathroom floor was ruined. I needed it done ASAP and didn't have time to 'shop' around for the best plumber deal. Plus, although this guys prices were high, I did trust he would do the job right.
I need to become a plumber/electrician/mechanic, etc....save my arse.
=) | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 6:10:28 AM | | OK the guy has spent years olearning his trade,invested thousands of dollars in equipment that he has to maintain and replace,took an hr to drive to your house and give an estimate,another hr to to supply store to but supplies and back to your house.using his truck and gas and whatever time to make the repair and basically has spent the day doing a 2 hr repair.I am not a plumber but I have been in construction for 20 yrs I once gave free estimated.So I spend a half day doing and estimate so the home owner can use my estimate to negotiate a cheaper price with the next guy,while I just wasted a half day and used my gas with no pay.If you go to a Drs office and he spends 15 min with you and charges you $250 for the visit do you complain about it? | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 7:33:00 AM | I got a quote from a big plumbing outfit to replace a part on a floor furnace; $450. So I checked around and found that the part only cost $35 and it was a two hour job at the very most.
Another time my painter gave a quote to do a small house and I thought it was time to compare his price to another company. They pulled up in a shiny new truck and wanted three times his price.
I think it's better to call as many numbers in the yellow pages as it takes to find a small company who's grateful for the work. Or get a referral from someone you trust.
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 11:56:29 AM | To start with, how did you arrive at that 300 dollars an hour comment? What about the almost 150 bucks you shelled out for mostly material? Yet you also mention you figured around 200 bucks. Someone's math needs a bit of adjustment.
Few people outside of those owning their own business realize the real costs involved. Did you locate the plumber via your Yellow Pages? If you did, his add could easily cost 2 grand a month, and I'm not talking a full page add either. Does the contractor have a place of business outside of his garage? Did the truck have advertising on it? Was he a licensed/insured contractor?
I'm appalled every time someone says to me "But I can get the same material for a lot less than that." Do you actually think that Lowe's sold you your items at cost?? The simple fact of the matter is this, the less an item costs the contractor, the higher the markup is.
Look, it's great that you could do it yourself, but don't kid yourself in thinking that he was going to walk away from a 600 dollar job making 300 hundred dollars a hour. That is simply absurd. | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 12:06:07 PM | | When i bought my house, i needed to get an estimate for some plumbing work. The guy said 4 grand. I said for 4 grand i can go to plumbing school. Got some plumbing tools and went in the backyard to practice soddering. After setting myself on fire (quite the scene, and i was fine), i figured it out and did the whole job myself for about 800 bucks. | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 12:52:22 PM | i used to manage commercial properties, i did the easy stuff -thought plumbers were overpaid -until one of the properties had a big sewer problem -ugggggggggggg.
if you can complete the task on your own -great -however make sure you know exactly what your doing -correct schedule pvc/primer, correctly rated electrical wire, breakers, gfi, lead free solder, etc. | |
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Mulva
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Joined: 12/28/2007
Msg: 13 | |
| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 1:07:33 PM | It's nice to be able to do that work yourself
Me, I'd have to hire someone | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 1:47:43 PM | Dear Lost,
Time is money my friend. For example, what would you charge to do the job?
First off there's the time.
Figure three hours service call included.
Minimum labor at $50.00 an hour, that comes to $150.00
Materials usually about 1/2 of Labor $75.00
Office overhead is common at 20% per job $60.00
Calculate insurance into every job, maybe 4 % $14.40
Taxes the owner must pay, Social Security, Payroll
State and Federal, that's the net job taxed, figured at 30% $111.042
Ok, why be in business if you ain't gonna make a profit? Say 25% $120.30
Business is a risk, the owner is taking a serious risk for his being self employed. There are people out there that do not pay what they owe, so he's got to cover his losses. Then there are sue happy idiots that will do anything to avoid payment. These folks cost money in lawyers fees, and keep in mind this business owner has suppliers to pay. Take into consideration teh possibility of a Union shop. Then you have to add in the cost of vacation pay & retirement for his workers.
Damn, what do ya know? My total is right on! $621.48.
Fact is, it was probably a damn good deal. You're just cheap.
Plus if you do it your self you have no warrantee. You also have no workman's comp, or liability insurance to support you should you get hurt or "F" it up either.
Get a grip Dude, this is 2008, not 1955. Things cost money!
Your cheap! | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 3:55:48 PM | Wow. I didn't mean to start anything here.
I did, and still believe the guy's price was outrageous. Yes, I spent about $148 in materials for materials, and tools, to do the job; twice. I tried to, and fixed, one of the two leaks, before calling a plumber. It was after I discovered a second leak, that I called the plumber. When I called the plumber, he asked me to tell him what I thought he might need. So, I ran down the list, in detail, and was told he had all he would need to do the job on his truck.
My first trip to Lowe's was sixty dollars and change; second trip $87.30, total: approximately $148; about $80 of that cost was for a large pipe cutter, standard pipe cutter, and a pipe wrench. Admittedly, I was glad to get the tools, and will have them for a long time to come. I also have some left over materials; fittings, a piece of pipe, primer, and glue. I'm sure I'll use all of this stuff at some point in the future. Had I taken the time to run down the tools, the entire job would have cost me about $68 in materials, and a couple of hours of my time.
I got the plumber's name, and phone number from a friend, who had used them in the past; I was told they're "reasonable", and reliable. The truck the guy drove had no advertising on it, at all. When he opened his truck, it reminded me of a junkyard, complete with the smell of old engine oil.
I have a friend who runs a small business, and I help him out on occasion. He spent time in school, has invested megabucks in specialized tools, I'm not even sure they have names for yet, and his hourly labor rate is $35 an hour, plus parts. If he has to pick up, or deliver, a customer's equipment, it's an additional $35. Somehow, he makes a very good living, and is over run with business.
I used to work in a profession, I spent five years in college, and $14,000 in getting there; where my time was billed out to clients. It was a small, and specialized firm, so, my time was expensive; my time was billed to clients at rates ranging from $75 to $150 an hour. My old boss would bill his time at $250 an hour; and still does today; I checked, just to make sure I would be accurate.
I know someone who runs a diesel repair shop, with several employees, and service trucks. I asked what his rates were, and they charge $150 for a service truck to come out to you, within 50 miles of their shop. The Road Call charge is credited toward any repairs that need to be done. If the Road Call takes more than two hours, there's a charge of $52 an hour. The shop's hourly labor rate is $52 an hour. I've watched this business go from a two man operation, with a service trailer pulled behind an old pick up truck, to what it is today; in just over five years.
How did I come to the determination of $300 an hour for this guy's estimate? $600 cost estimate for the job, divided by the estimated time to complete the job, equals $300 per hour. The guy quoted me $95, just to come out; the cost of repairs was in addition to the trip charge. He only charged me $49, because he was ony at my house for a few minutes. It has become customary for service people to charge for coming out to your house; but, it is also customary for that same charge to be credited to your repair bill. This guy made it very clear that the trip charge was in addition to the estimated cost of the repair. At most, this guy spent a sum total of one hour of his day devoted to my job; 20 minutes each way from his shop, and about 10 minutes, at most, at my house. I know this, because I followed him back into town, on my way to Lowe's.
I checked the labor rates, and trip charges, of other plumbing companies in the area this afternoon, as I'm considering having a rather large plumbing job done in the future. Some plumbers do, and some don't, have trip charges; all of those I talked credit the trip charge toward the cost of the job to be done. The labor rates ran from $30 to $55 an hour, depending upon what had to be done, and what equipment was used. I was left with the feeling that the more equipment that was needed, the higher the hourly rate was.
I think it's very far from right, to call someone out to give you an estimate for a job, as in the example of the gentleman working in construction, then use that same estimate to negotiate a lower price with someone else.
I have no problem with paying anyone a reasonable fee for the work they do. I thought this plumber's prices were out of line with other plumbers in the area and, thus far, it appears that I was right. As for the friend that referred them to me? I doubt they will have that business anymore, as well as others my friend may mention my experience to. | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 4:32:18 PM | Nothing was started OP, and I will admit to making some assumptions in my initial post. With more time and info at hand I'll try to add a bit more. It would seem that your profile is hidden so I am clueless as what area you are in. I just know that service rates of 30 to 55 dollars an hour around here would put the contractor out of business pronto.
I also 'assumed' that your plumber would have supplied the roughly 150 dollar material cost bringing down the hourly rate quite a bit. Especially after figuring in the resale price of said material. Other assumptions were certainly mentioned already.
Are there contractors out there trying to rip off customers, without question. Your best defense is to arm yourself with as much info as possible no matter how small the job may be.
The point I and m#####m guy were trying to make is that running a legitimate business costs money. There's an old saying that says businesses don't pay taxes. In a way that's very true. Licenses, vehicle costs, etc., overhead in short, are costs figured into the cost of doing business, a cost the customer bears.
Can you do it much cheaper doing it yourself, no doubt, there's no argument there. But deal only with licensed contractors and remember, if you pay peanuts, you're likely to end up with monkeys. Oh, and always get 3 estimates if possible. The lowest, if in line with the others, should give you the job you're looking for. If it's way low, well, see peanut statement above. | |
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Mulva
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Joined: 12/28/2007
Msg: 17 | |
| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 5:20:09 PM |
It would seem that your profile is hidden so I am clueless as what area you are in.
You're both in South Carolina | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 5:20:28 PM | Please accept my apology; I didn't realize my profile was hidden. I'm in Williston, South Carolina.
I just got off of the phone with my friend, that referred the plumber. She told me that the most she's ever paid them, and they've done a LOT of work for her, is a little over $100, for any one job. I know that one of the guys from this particular plumbing company spent a couple of hours working under her house, fixing something or the other.
I'm her general go to guy for things she needs done around her house. I was at my day job, so, she called these people to fix the problem.
Believe me, I have no trouble, at all, with paying a tradesman for his/her work. I have paid, and intend to continue to pay, fair market prices for work done by anyone. I expect to be paid a fair wage for what I do; I believe others should be paid a fair wage as well.
I guess I didn't make myself very clear when I made my original post. I was tired from worry and frustration over that busted water line, and quite upset with the price I was quoted. I made the mistake of thinking that it wouldn't be all that much, because the lines to be fixed were readily accessible. I'm on a well; so the broken lines were both above ground, and outside.
The second time around fixing the pipes, took about 30 minutes to take everything apart, and put it all back together. I'm not a plumber, so, I had to check, and recheck, measurements, and make sure everything was just so. Once all of the checking was done, I tightened up the one Union, or Universal Joint, and glued all of the joints that had to be glued. Then, it took another 30 minutes of sitting on my hands, to give the glue time to set. Thankfully, there weren't any leaks.
I know, for fact, that there are very good people out there, who refuse to do anything but the highest quality work; I see them nearly every day. Some of them do jobs that I wouldn't even consider. Yet, they do their respective jobs with a smile, and to a degree, that I can only aspire.
Like most homeowners, I try to do everything I can to fix things around the house myself. I put in 720 feet of water line, and 7 water hydrants, at my former home. That's not to mention fixing the main water line there, on five separate occasions, when the mowing contractor would run it over with his tractor. The sixth time they broke my water line, a licensed plumber came out and fixed it; they haven't run over it since. Maybe they got soaked for that repair job, or maybe it was paying my $414 water bill.
I checked around this afternoon, to inquire about having another well sunk, and was surprised at the variance in prices between companies. They all seemed to be in the same general price range; after you figured base price for sinking the well to a given depth, their respective equipment charges, and hourly rates. I was pleasantly surprised that my estimate for sinking a well was a lot higher than the prices I was quoted over the phone this afternoon.
I appreciate your advice 4realru, and I intend to put it to good use, as I move along in the process of having another well sunk. | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 8:53:21 PM | Mulva, thank you so much for looking and letting me know, although he's still quite a ways from me. Nonetheless, that kinda hourly rate would never make it here, at least not for what I described. A successful service company will have trucks already stocked with the most used items. Although you'll pay far more for such items than you would at a hardware store, the fact that they show up at your house usually means you pay far less in labor.
OP, I never thought you'd be against paying a fair price but I do have to ask, was all the pipe involved in the repair PVC pipe? Surely you didn't pay 90 bucks for a large PVC cutter when any saw or nylon string would have done the job? And while your 30 minute wait time for the glue to dry was understandable considering your lack of experience, you could have turned the pressure on way before that.
You're more than welcome for any help I have given you. Feel free to write to me directly in the future, especially if you have an electrical question.
A poster above mentioned learning how to solder on his own. An easy task if you follow a few simple rules. First, the male and female ends must be clean. There are tools to do this easily. Flux must be applied, an easy thing to do. But here's what matters most, solder is drawn to heat, so the heat source needs to be away from the point of entry. For anyone that doesn't understand this, simply write and I'll explain it in detail. | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 9:02:36 PM | Plumbers usually (but not always) licensed highly skilled tradespeople.
It takes years to become a journeyman plumber and a LOT schooling and training...and more yo become a master plumber.
They have to pay for this schooling (unless they get into an apprenticeship program) and that costs money.
It's also hard and dirty work.
And their are a limited number of them out there
As such,they can (and do) charge a considerable fee for their services.
You can pay their fees,...and get a trained professional that usually guarantees their work.
Or you hire somebody out of the paper or from online to do "handyman work" and take your chances....
Or do it yourself....and REALLY take your chances....
The choice .....as always.....is yours. | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/1/2008 11:21:36 PM | The large PVC pipe cutter, for pipes over 1", was $40.43, I think, and the standard pipe cutter was about $15, I also got a 24" pipe wrench for around $20. Yes, I could have used a Saws All to cut the larger pipe. But, hey, it was an excuse to get a cool new tool; and I'm pretty sure I'll be using it at some time in the future. As it turned out, I didn't need to get the pipe wrench, the one I already had would have worked. I was unsure, given the size of the Union I had to take apart. Thus, an excuse to buy another cool new tool.  You know, that boys and their toys thing?
I was pretty sure I could have turned the water on shortly after putting everything together. But, I was erring on the side of caution, as it's the main water line to the house; it's always under 60 psi.
At some point in the future, I may take you up on your offer of help with electrical stuff. I have a tankless hot water heater I want to take for a test drive. But, I haven't been able to find the wire I need to hook it up. Given my experience with the plumber, I'm a little leery about calling an electrician.
I've been to several facilities around Charleston; watching some of the tradesman down there makes you appreciate them. They work in places, and do a quality of work, that is almost beyond belief. I'm sure they make good money; but, they earn it too. | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/3/2008 2:37:01 AM | I put in a small water line for a frig with water/ice in the door the other day. They wanted $200 -- cost me less than $20.
The key to plumbing is having some one good to give you advice. Avoid the big box stores and go to a plumbing supply store -- These guys were plumbers and will make sure you leave with everything to do the job right the first time around.
The large PVC pipe cutter, for pipes over 1", was $40.43, I think, and the standard pipe cutter was about $15, I also got a 24" pipe wrench for around $20. Yes, I could have used a Saws All to cut the larger pipe.
PVC cuts fine with a circular saw, too, much faster than a sawzall. Use a fine tooth blade like a plywood blade (new and keep it just for that) or a carbide blade that doesn't have an aggressive forward angle. ATB tooth design is best, 0-10 degrees forward tooth angle.
The high pressure laminate blades are designed to cut plastic coated countertops very smoothly without splintering. They will do the same thing but at a much higher price.
I love doing the home repair/improvement projects. Few things are as rewarding feeling as they are. Tonight I just put up some antique dishes and jello molds in my kitchen. Small job but adds so much to the space. One of the dishes has a black and white picture of my grandpa on it. | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/3/2008 10:48:05 AM | Funny thing happened yesterday, when I got my mail. There was a Customer Satisfaction Evaluation form letter from the plumbing company in my mail box. One of the questions they ask is whether I thought the price they charged was About Right, More Than Expected, or Less Than Expected." It also asks me to provide them with any additional information that I would care to give them.
Gee, I wonder if they'll even read what I have to say?  | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/9/2008 3:31:30 AM |
I have a tankless hot water heater I want to take for a test drive. But, I haven't been able to find the wire I need to hook it up.
What is so tricky with that? It's a new product it's not like they can require the asbestos coated wire ( which I have some of on hand - salvaged from stoves because I know its value ) -- is that the issue, high temp insulation required? | |
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| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/9/2008 7:06:37 AM | I called my plumber last week because I need the exhaust piping from my gas hot water tank extended higher thru the roof. (I got a new hot water tank and the orginal guy who put it in didn't extend the pipe far enough so that it wouldn't cause snow to melt on my roof).
I asked my usual plumber if this is do-able and how much - his response "I've got some pipe at home, no problem - I'm not going to make a million off it so I'll just get ya next time".
He is a certified plumber who I've been using for over 10 years. Some jobs he charges me for and other jobs he doesn't.
I feel that by being a regular customer of his I get honest rates and never feel that I've been ripped off. | |
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_JAFO_
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Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 26 | |
| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/9/2008 10:11:45 AM | And here I've been thinking of suggesting a "National Plumber Day" in honor of all those really GOOD plumbers who get us out of a jam on a regular basis.
I discovered a slab leak a few weeks ago. My plumber not only fixed the slab leak but also was conscientious enough about his work to notice there was still water going "somewhere." He isolated a second slab leak. I had everything re-routed through the attic to avoid ever having the problem again in the slab.
Had he have fixed just the one slab leak I probably would have fixed the leak in the slab and sealed it up again. By him finding the second leak right away rather than a week or (agggggghhhhhh) a year down the road I was able to make a decision based on multiple slab leaks rather than one.
The plumber wasn't "mr. personality" but by gosh he did a heck of a WONDERFUL job. He got in, got out and did everything right.
The drywall guy that had to "clean up" after him asked who the plumbing company was because he did such minimal damage getting into my walls that it was amazing in itself.
I didn't get off cheap. I paid HUGE sums of money for the work to be done. I'm grateful to my plumber. So grateful I think we should all go without running water for a day every year to pay homage to our wonderful plumbers!!!! For me... he was my hero! | |
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grog27
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Joined: 2/25/2005
Msg: 27 | |
| Call A Plumber Lately?
Posted: 2/9/2008 4:57:24 PM | "Wow. I didn't mean to start anything here."
Bullshit. Why else would you have posted it?
We gpt the same kind of idiotic comments whenever our band played a dance. "Gee, you guys just play for two hours and make all that money!!"
Right. Never mind the 8-hour drive to get to the gig; paying for the instruments/agent's fees/gas/maintenance/rehearsal space rental/etc.etc. People just don't realize (or choose to ignore) all the hidden costs in doing business. | |
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