Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Crash1967
Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 1
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
I was wondering if the UK or Canada have their own versions of the pledge of allegiance or is this an American thing?

Also, if you do what does it say?

and

What do you think about he US and our pledge of allegiance?
 Fuzzy Dunlop
Joined: 8/8/2007
Msg: 2
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/11/2008 5:53:43 PM
Ireland does not have one, neither does the UK. I remember when i lived in the US being at a meeting once and they closed it with the Pledge of Allegiance. I remember thinking that all those proud people standing with their hands on their hearts looked sooo much like robots.
 quiet guy67
Joined: 7/21/2006
Msg: 3
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/11/2008 9:30:39 PM
Canada does not have one either.
 Crash1967
Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 4
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/11/2008 10:08:19 PM
So just in case ya'll don't know how it goes;

"I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the united states of America.
And to the Republic for which it stands,
one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all".

Oh, and your supposed to face the flag and have your right hand over your heart when you say it.
 Eternelle
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 5
view profile
History
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/12/2008 2:24:11 AM
Really interesting topic Crash. Neither the UK or Canada has a pledge. I am very uninformed about the US pledge, but I would really like to more about it. What is it for? What is the history?

I first learned about the pledge from a novel by James Clavell.

Clavell ( author of Shogun, King Rat etc) listened as his 6 yr old proudly recited the pledge - one of the first things she had been taught at school. However, she had not been taught the meaning of the words, nor the meaning of taking a pledge.

Clavell said, "During that day I asked all kinds of people of every age, “You know the 'I pledge allegiance...', but before I could finish, at once they would all parrot it, the words almost always equally blurred. In every case, discovered that not one teacher, ever — or anyone — had ever explained the words to any one of them. Everyone just had to learn it to say it.

This was the inspiration for The Children's Story. Set in a grade school classroom, it is a brief (50 p.p. approx.) but compelling exploration of the power of language and the vulnerability of uninformed minds.

This is part of the author's note in the book . "Normally I write and rewrite and re-rewrite, but this story came quickly — almost by itself. Barely three words were changed. It pleases me greatly because it keeps asking me questions... Questions like what’s the use of 'I pledge allegiance' without understanding? Like why is it so easy to divert thoughts and implant others? Like what is freedom and why is it so hard to explain? The Children’s Story keeps asking me all sorts of questions I cannot answer. Perhaps you can — then your children will..."

The cut and paste below is from the first chapter. I remember how shocked I was when I first read it.


"The other schools I went to," Hilda said, "they never said anything about it. They just wanted us to learn it. They didn't ask us what it meant. We just hadta say it every day before we started school."
"It took me weeks and weeks and weeks to say it right," Mary said.
So the New Teacher explained what allegiance meant. " ...so you are promising or pledging support to the flag and saying that it is much more important than YOU are. How can a flag be more important than a real live person?"
Johnny broke the silence. "But the next thing is - well, where it says 'and to the republic for which it stands.' That means it's like a, like a..." He searched for the word and could not find it. "Like well, sort of a sign, isn't it?"
"Yes. The real word is a SYMBOL." The New Teacher frowned. "But we don't need a sign to remind us that we love our country, do we? You're all good boys and girls. Do you need a sign to remind you?"
"What's REMIND mean?" Mary asked.
"It means to make you remember. To make you remember that you're all good boys and girls."
The children thought about this and shook their heads.

Johnny put up his hand. "It's our flag," he said fiercely. "We always pledge."
"Yes," the New Teacher said. "It is a very pretty one. She looked at it a moment and then said, "I wish I could have a piece of it. If it's so important, I think we should all have a piece of it. Don't you?"
"I've a little one at home," Mary said. "I could bring it tomorrow."
"Thank you, Mary dear, but I just wanted a little piece of this one because it's our own special classroom one."
Then Danny said, "If we had some scissors we could cut a little piece off."
"I've some scissors at home, Mary said.

4

"There's some in Miss Worden's desk," Brian said.

The New Teacher found the scissors and then they had to decide who would be allowed to cut a little piece off, and the New Teacher said that because today was Mary's birthday (HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT?) Mary asked herself, awed) Mary should be allowed to cut the piece off. And then they decided it would be very nice if they all had a piece. The flag is special, they thought, so if you have a piece, that's better than having just to look at it, 'cause you can keep it in your pocket.
So the flag was cut up by the children and they were very proud that they each had a piece.


All of the first chapter is here
http://home.comcast.net/~llefler/clavell.htm
 frankster_p
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 6
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/12/2008 4:50:32 AM
Australia and Italy dont have one either.

Funny thing Americans and patriotism.
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 7
view profile
History
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/12/2008 5:17:52 AM
As a commonwealth country, we have one......only its rare if we ever use it....itsmore historical than anything else.......

I had to look it up, because I know for certain that the Acadians in Canada were exiled for refusing to agree to make an "Oath of allegiance", but I cannot seem to find a title for it like the pledge of allegiance.....

Still, according to Wiki, the Canadian oath is;


I, ……………, do Solemnly swear (affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors according to law, forever. So help me God.


A person may choose to replace the word "swear" with "affirm" and to omit the phrase "So help me God." This person is also given the option of "swearing" on a bible or not.
 xHaligalx
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 8
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/12/2008 6:41:06 AM
Jip......NEVER ever quote that wikipedia site - do you know where the info comes from? LOL The "oath" you quoted is British and used for military purposes or something like that. When you sign up or something?? Or when one becomes a citizen in a commonwealth country...I forget
No, Canadians do not have a pledge of Allegiance .
The Acadiens were expelled for not agreeing to take sides with Britain if war broke out with France again.
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 9
view profile
History
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/12/2008 6:44:28 AM
Naw, Wikipedia is a good source- so long as you put up fair warning, and let people take it as they will....

But no, I'm certain the Acadians were kicked out because they refused to make an oath to the crown.....And given Canada's countless number of traditions that connects to our commonwealth history, I see no reason why our oath would be more or less an alteration of the British one.....
 Crash1967
Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 10
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/12/2008 8:04:21 AM
My daughters refuse to pledge because they don't believe in God in the sense that its being used. I said this in another post but my oldest daughter (4.0 student) was disciplined for not saying it even though she adamantly told her teacher that the supreme court ruled that a person doesn't HAVE TO say it. The administrator at her school called and apologized to her because she was right. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette)

In some ways I think its a pretty messed up thing but in other ways I think if reinforces some principals that are very important such as freedom and liberty, things we are losing by the day. Maybe someday those who just repeat it like the words to a MacDonalds commercial will wake up and think about what freedom and liberty are all about - which is not about building a toxic waste dump just because you can....

I won't pledge at the sporting events I go to and you might be amazed at how I'm looked at by those around me. It's as if I grew horns and sprouted 8 arms. I think people would be shocked to know it was orignially written by a socialist as it has now become something much different than its author intended it to be.

a look at the history of the pledge -
"Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).

Francis Bellamy in his sermons and lectures and Edward Bellamy in his novels and articles described in detail how the middle class could create a planned economy with political, social and economic equality for all. The government would run a peace time economy similar to our present military industrial complex.

The Pledge was published in the September 8th issue of The Youth's Companion, the leading family magazine and the Reader's Digest of its day. Its owner and editor, Daniel Ford, had hired Francis in 1891 as his assistant when Francis was pressured into leaving his baptist church in Boston because of his socialist sermons. As a member of his congregation, Ford had enjoyed Francis's sermons. Ford later founded the liberal and often controversial Ford Hall Forum, located in downtown Boston.

In 1892 Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his 'Pledge of Allegiance.'

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]

Dr. Mortimer Adler, American philosopher and last living founder of the Great Books program at Saint John's College, has analyzed these ideas in his book, The Six Great Ideas. He argues that the three great ideas of the American political tradition are 'equality, liberty and justice for all.' 'Justice' mediates between the often conflicting goals of 'liberty' and 'equality.'

In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.

What follows is Bellamy's own account of some of the thoughts that went through his mind in August, 1892, as he picked the words of his Pledge:

It began as an intensive communing with salient points of our national history, from the Declaration of Independence onwards; with the makings of the Constitution...with the meaning of the Civil War; with the aspiration of the people...

The true reason for allegiance to the Flag is the 'republic for which it stands.' ...And what does that vast thing, the Republic mean? It is the concise political word for the Nation - the One Nation which the Civil War was fought to prove. To make that One Nation idea clear, we must specify that it is indivisible, as Webster and Lincoln used to repeat in their great speeches. And its future?

Just here arose the temptation of the historic slogan of the French Revolution which meant so much to Jefferson and his friends, 'Liberty, equality, fraternity.' No, that would be too fanciful, too many thousands of years off in realization. But we as a nation do stand square on the doctrine of liberty and justice for all...

If the Pledge's historical pattern repeats, its words will be modified during this decade. Below are two possible changes.

Some prolife advocates recite the following slightly revised Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, born and unborn.'

A few liberals recite a slightly revised version of Bellamy's original Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all."

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

I think it's also interesting to note that the hand over the heart bit used to be different. Back in the day it the "salute" was an outstretched arm like the whole "hiel Hitler" thing but with the palm up. When Hitler came to power and starte using his salute the salute was changed in the US to the hand over the heart.
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 11
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/12/2008 8:25:38 AM

The "oath" you quoted is British and used for military purposes or something like that. When you sign up or something?? Or when one becomes a citizen in a commonwealth country...I forget No, Canadians do not have a pledge of Allegiance .


When you become a Canadian citizen you have to swear allegience to the Country and Queen using that particular quote. Wikipedia is correct.

At least this was true when I became a Canadian citizen in the 60s. I remember it well because my younger brother pronounced "heirs" as "hairs".

I thought it was kinda ironic to make a British citizen swear allegience to the Queen but never mind.

So, that is there is a pledge of allegience in Canada but it's not used as much as it is in the US.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 12
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/12/2008 12:28:09 PM

"I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the united states of America.
And to the Republic for which it stands,
one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all".


- So using the word "God" would mean that the United States is no better than Iran, Suadi Arabia and any other country.
 quiet guy67
Joined: 7/21/2006
Msg: 13
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/12/2008 2:19:57 PM
The Canadian oath that is referred to earlier is not the same as the US Pledge of Allegiance. The Canadian oath is not used by average citizens in school or at public events like the US one is. It's used when joining the Canadian Forces, being sworn in as a Member of Parliament and occasions such as that. The average Canadian would go their entire life without ever reciting it or even hearing it.

 YearoftheCat
Joined: 9/26/2007
Msg: 14
view profile
History
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/12/2008 2:35:29 PM
I thought "under God" got booted by the lefty babies.
 Jameslazazzera
Joined: 9/21/2006
Msg: 15
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/12/2008 9:48:50 PM
The Soviets had something similar...come to think of it, so did the Nazis....just sayin
 PurpleCrayon~
Joined: 9/26/2007
Msg: 16
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/13/2008 12:02:32 AM
Maybe it's our fevernt 'patriotism' , pledge of allegiance, etc. which makes the USA the most sought after Country to immigrate to.

I can recite the multiplication table, a lot of algebra/calculus; however I rarely use it. Nonetheless, it is ingrained into my memory via repetition.

Sometimes it the 'automatic' knowledge which we retain which can one day become all important. All it takes is 'one' important moment to change one's life.
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 17
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/13/2008 1:20:05 AM

Maybe it's our fevernt 'patriotism' , pledge of allegiance, etc. which makes the USA the most sought after Country to immigrate to.


That or the fact it's one of the easiest countries to get into. Legally even.
 Schadenfreudian
Joined: 7/5/2007
Msg: 18
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/13/2008 5:37:58 AM
Patriotism is, after all, the last bastion of the scoundrel.

Interesting, this pledging to an ideal. That's what it's really for, y'know...not necessarily the "country" but for the ideal of unity along with the "freedom and justice" for which it fails to practice at every possible chance to stand up as a world leader. The pledge becomes a "one-way" and therefore meaningless oath or affirmation, since we all know that the sociopaths who run our country couldn't give a sheet about the rest of us, except what we've done [in terms of electing them] lately.
 JeremiaJohnson
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 19
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/13/2008 7:55:55 AM
According to an Immigration Canada official i spoke to once, there are more people trying to immigrate to Canada than to the USA. Something like 4:1. And it is much harder to enter here. IMO because of Health care

OT: Since we have the "Charter of Rights" now here in Canada. Does the pledge of allegiance to the "throne" even come into it anymore? I wouldn't think so, but I don't know.
 Happy__Guy
Joined: 10/3/2007
Msg: 20
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/13/2008 7:59:33 AM

The Soviets had something similar...come to think of it, so did the Nazis..


My mom was in school during the Second World War. She has a lot of stories about collecting rationed materials like grease and scrap metal. She said that she used to hold her right hand out (palms up) during the pledge. She has said that it looked a lot like the Nazi salute (palms down). I don't recall whether she was a student when the switch to hand over heart was made.
 Crash1967
Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 21
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/13/2008 9:01:41 AM
Very true schadenfreudian and well said, but who said that again? Was that Franklin
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 22
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/13/2008 10:42:18 AM
Samuel Johnson, who said that "patriotism is the last bastion of a scoundrel."
 srvblues
Joined: 8/15/2005
Msg: 23
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/19/2008 8:08:57 PM
God save the Queen... Sounds worse to me. You are putting the monarch above the nation. What do the atheists say for that one?

The nation is only as good as it's citizens.
 littleaudrey
Joined: 1/17/2008
Msg: 24
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/20/2008 6:38:56 AM
I think most countries have a patriotic song that they sing/chant that is their version of the pledge. I'm not sure if it's used with the frequency that the pledge is used in America (at ballgames, in schools, etc.) but I'm pretty sure most places have an official song. Well, our official song is the Star Spangled Banner, so I may actually be talking about something completely different than the Pledge.

I live in the US and I think it needs work. This is a good country. It has the capability of being a great country, but so many people are blinded to what we could do, cloaked in a shroud of patriotism and dogma. We could be a role model. We're not. We could help other countries. We kill them. We don't have to have starving citizens. We do.

I feel angry when I hear the Pledge, because we're not one nation united. Not everyone believes in God. The country is torn politically, economically, socially, racially. I think the Pledge serves as an example of naive elitism, and it does offend me. This is not an equal country. Not everyone has the same opportunities as everyone else. I will say the Pledge for what this country could be; not what it currently is.
 CharlesEdm
Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 25
Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?
Posted: 2/20/2008 7:17:57 AM

God save the Queen... Sounds worse to me. You are putting the monarch above the nation. What do the atheists say for that one?


Believe it or not, most Atheists don't spend their lives getting irritated about minor little issues such as that. The entire under god thing is irritating because people are forced to say it, and it was inserted relatively recently as a political ploy.

Not to mention the statement "God save the queen" isn't very value laden, meanwhile one nation under god is rather similar to "slaves under allah" A somewhat different message when you use those terms.
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Do other countries have a pledge of allegiance?