| Pride taking over UFC?, Has the UFC cheapened itself?
Posted: 2/12/2008 10:28:56 PM | When UFC fighters were "free agents" they were moderately successful fighting in Pride tournaments. But those were the no time limits days. There were wide weight class ranging fighters of the past like Ken Shamrock, Kimo, those guys were superior to todays UFC fighters IMH(Okie)O..
The proof is in the new millennium, when super warriors like Spider Silva and Minotauro are unifying MMA championships.
Now, the UFC ran off its greatest heavyweight by not digging deep in their pockets to ensure that Randy got his fight with Fedor, and then turned right around and paid Brock Lesnar $250k to draw the "Bully Ballet crowd" into the already dis-respectful live American Crowds? And they put him up against Mir in his first fight? How did he earn that?
Sheer bulk alone does not earn a top tier fight, and he had a 1% chance IMHOO.
And what did Tim Silva earn? Much, much less...
Tim Silva is an awesome competitor that gets no respect because of the fact that he looks like a lumbering country goof ball and the children in the live, immature audience needs a Scandar Akbar to boo at. He is big and intelligent, and country. He will make a boring fight if its the smart thing to do, but there is nothing wrong with that. His loss to Randy? Randy was magic that night, putting on a boxing clinic. He had all us forty-something year old fans feeling pretty good with that masterpiece.
If I was Dana White, I would pay millions to get Couture and Fedor paid, and, ban boo-ing at live shows. Hire a bunch of big ole bouncers with Staff t-shirts (the local college athletes) and throw the drunken children out on their ears.
Then promote it with class...
MMA is awesome when the crowd is Pride in Japan, or King of Pancrase. When the audience loves the sport enough to silently listen to every exchange, and gives pleasant praise in unison between rounds and at breaks.
Any MMA fans out there got an opinion? | |
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| Pride taking over UFC?, Has the UFC cheapened itself?
Posted: 2/13/2008 12:32:21 AM | | Imo Prides always been better than UFC for a long time. Gracie doesnt fight anymore well up to Gracie Standards.. Frank Shamrock. All those legends are done and gone then you just had UFC, and the new rising stars. Now dont get me wrong UFC has alot of great fighters before pride came. Like BJ Penn for exmaple, he was and still is awsome at BJJ. But I mean look at the championship holders. It doesnt lie. They were pride. If Fedor ever comes which i think he eventually will. He will rule UFC with an iron fist. I think anyone who disagrees is smoking serious crack lol. And Dana White is a wannabe vince macmhaon. I know thees a typo on vince's last name, but im drunk and cant think of how to spell it at the moment lol. | |
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| Pride taking over UFC?, Has the UFC cheapened itself?
Posted: 2/13/2008 3:56:13 AM | Brock lesnar got paid 250k because hes brock lesnar. (400k if he won) Its all about marketing and Brock is a WAY bigger name then the maniac. That ppv buyrate will be one of the years biggest because of his name alone.
Bottom line is the biggest stars get the most money. And I dont see anything wrong with that. After all its business.
When Randy phoned up Dana and asked for a fight with Tim for the HW belt dana and tim said yes.
Now Nog wants that chance..To unify the HW belt. Randy was offered to fight nog and he said no. | |
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| Pride taking over UFC?, Has the UFC cheapened itself?
Posted: 2/16/2008 10:59:51 PM | How recently was Randy offered the Nog fight?
Would Randy fight Fedor in Pride rules?
Does his resignment from the UFC open up that possibility?
Would Randy want to fight Nog, now that he has beaten Tim Sylvia?
I am sure there will be opponents to keep Minotauro busy until Randy is available if he chooses to jsut wait.
My previous rant was a little overboard, and negative. I think the Pride times and rules are better producers of great fighters, but America has some of the greatest.
I can't wait to see Pulver return to his peak. I believe that will happen, although I have no inside information about anything. Jan fan perspective speculation...
Pieace! | |
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| Pride taking over UFC?, Has the UFC cheapened itself?
Posted: 2/17/2008 2:20:42 AM | It wasn't a matter of simply paying Fedor to come in and fight Randy Couture in the UFC. It was much more than money. Zuffa wanted to own Fedor. Some of the UFC's demands were as follows:
- Wanted Fedor to sign an exclusive contract that would prevent him from doing anything (interviews, fighting for other oganizations, etc).
- Would not let Fedor fight in Combat Sambo for Russia which was a HUGE sticking point for Fedor. He had promised Russian President Putin that he would continue to fight for Russia
- Fedor would be essentially owned by the UFC, as his contract would immediately roll over at the end of his contract if he were undefeated BUT the UFC could cut Fedor at any time if he lost a fight
Couture is in the process of getting out of his contract with the UFC and will fight Fedor in an organization outside of Zuffa. This fight may very well change the landscape of MMA as we know it - as Randy Couture's status combined with some publicity will likely lure lots of casual fans to check out this event.
Brock Lesnar was worth every penny for his fight with Mir. Lesnar is a former NCAA wrestling champion. Should he have faced Mir in his first fight? Probably not. Will he learn from his mistakes? I think so. Lesnar is still very raw. He brings an audience with him and the UFC recognized this fact.
I agree that the UFC doesn't have any class as far as their product is concerned. I prefer Japanese MMA as they seem to "get it" as far as being able to improve the entertainment and production values of a show - while at the same time respecting martial arts (and martial arts is about respect). The UFC will never become bigger than it is due to the way they position the company and the fact that their trademark is the cage. The ring is much friendlier when you consider the negative conotation of the cage (animals).
You might want to check out the new promtion that is starting March 15th I believe. The former production crew of Dream Stage Entertainment (which ran PRIDE) and their long time rivals Fighting Entertainment Group (K-1, K-1 HERO's) have merged and will have their first show. The company is called DREAM. They've already announced a willingness to work with fighters from other organizations (M-1 Global and Fedor) and are going to be starting grand prix's for various weight classes. This is one of the things that many MMA fans miss - the unpredictability and drama of tournament style MMA.
You DO know PRIDE was bought by the UFC don't you? | |
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| Pride taking over UFC?, Has the UFC cheapened itself?
Posted: 2/18/2008 9:53:34 AM | Technically, Zuffa bought Pride. Zuffa owns the UFC and WEC. But it's a minor point, sure.
I'm hoping DREAMS will use the old Pride rules and not the unified rules. We'll see. This also means that the K-1 Hero's show is going away. Btw, DREAMS? It must sound better to the Japanese ear. Weird how that works. What sounds great in one culture sounds kinda corny in another. Anybody remember when the name of one of Pride's shows translated into English as "The Man Festival"? | |
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EH1
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Joined: 1/8/2008
Msg: 8 | |
| Pride taking over UFC?, Has the UFC cheapened itself?
Posted: 2/18/2008 10:05:45 AM | An intesteing factor that most MMA fans aren't aware of is that one of the most effeicent and effective stragies in a fight is illegal in all forms of MMA. The reason that it is illegal is not because it is dirty but because it is simply so boring to watch that no one would watch MMA if the fighters were allowed to do it.
This strategy is to simply to lock up with your opponent and use your weight to push on him a tire him out. AL=lot of good wresters know about it any Randy Couture uses it sometimes and mixes in some dirty boxing to keep the ref from seperating them but the thing that I don't like about the UFC is that all of the new guys comming in are told by the UFC's matchmaker before their fight that they have to go out there and make attempts to end the fight with either punches or submission or they are not going to be invited back. Chuck Liddell documents it well in his book, he said when he started fighting in the UFC he was expecting to matchmaker to come back there and wish him luck but instead he came back there and told Chuck if he didn't go out there and throw punches and make the fight entertaining for the fans he wouldn't be comming back. | |
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| Pride taking over UFC?, Has the UFC cheapened itself?
Posted: 2/18/2008 1:18:30 PM |
I'm hoping DREAMS will use the old Pride rules and not the unified rules. We'll see. This also means that the K-1 Hero's show is going away. Btw, DREAMS? It must sound better to the Japanese ear. Weird how that works. What sounds great in one culture sounds kinda corny in another
Yeah. Japanese phrases don't always translate well...and I'm sure vice versa. I'm wondering if DREAM was chosen as a bit of a tongue-and-cheek shot at Zuffa for trying to bury the competition by buying PRIDE and shutting it down - what I mean is DREAM as in Dream Stage Entertainment. K-1 DREAM kind of makes sense in that respect. | |
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| Pride taking over UFC?, Has the UFC cheapened itself?
Posted: 2/18/2008 1:23:05 PM |
This strategy is to simply to lock up with your opponent and use your weight to push on him a tire him out. AL=lot of good wresters know about it any Randy Couture uses it sometimes and mixes in some dirty boxing to keep the ref from seperating them but the thing that I don't like about the UFC is that all of the new guys comming in are told by the UFC's matchmaker before their fight that they have to go out there and make attempts to end the fight with either punches or submission or they are not going to be invited back. Chuck Liddell documents it well in his book, he said when he started fighting in the UFC he was expecting to matchmaker to come back there and wish him luck but instead he came back there and told Chuck if he didn't go out there and throw punches and make the fight entertaining for the fans he wouldn't be comming back.
The unified rules can be very boring to watch, especially in a cage. PRIDE rules should be the universal rules used. The dynamics of a fight are totally different. Simply laying on an opponent and doing nothing will net you a yellow card (-10% of your purse) and result in a stand up. I know they can't deduct money from fighters in States and regions where there are athletic commissions, but I dont' see why they couldn't deduct a point for stalling. I
I wonder how long ago Joe Silva said that to Chuck Liddell? I'm surprised it doesn't apply to Jake O'Brien. The O'Brien/Herring fight was probably one of the worst MMA fights I've ever seen. Well, outside of early UFC, but the rules were much different back then. | |
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| Pride taking over UFC?, Has the UFC cheapened itself?
Posted: 2/19/2008 1:57:51 PM |
Yeah. Japanese phrases don't always translate well...and I'm sure vice versa. I'm wondering if DREAM was chosen as a bit of a tongue-and-cheek shot at Zuffa for trying to bury the competition by buying PRIDE and shutting it down - what I mean is DREAM as in Dream Stage Entertainment. K-1 DREAM kind of makes sense in that respect.
Haha, I can't BELIEVE I didn't pick up on the connection between the names DREAM and Dream Stage Entertainment. Wow. You're onto something, I think. Also, the UFC's next show? Pride of a Champion. Definitely trying to rub it in there, along with signifying the "unification of the belts" (really a retiring of the Pride belt, let's be honest). | |
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| Pride taking over UFC?, Has the UFC cheapened itself?
Posted: 2/20/2008 7:40:31 AM | In all honesty, I don't enjoy watching most heavyweight fights.
Let's use the Heath Herring vs Jake O'Brien fight as an example. Heath Herring is a fun fighter to watch and I was excited to see him in the UFC. But what did we see? Herring trying to keep the fight standing up, O'Brien trying to take it to the ground. O'Brien gets Herring to the ground and nothing... absolute waste of time. Sure, it was great strategy on O'Brien's part to keep it on the ground where he could control the situation and win on points, but it was an absolute bore to watch. O'Brien doesn't deserve a fight with Arlovski after that crap.
Same typically goes for Sylvia. Jab, jab, leg kick, jab, sprawl. This last fight vs Nog, he actually redeemed himself in my opinion. Yeah, he lost, but he actually tried to fight to win, not just survive and win on points. Because of that effort, I'm wanting to see him fight again. | |
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| Pride taking over UFC?, Has the UFC cheapened itself?
Posted: 3/3/2008 11:54:53 AM | The rules of pride and UFC are different. I watched an interview with Gracie and he made a great point. The UFC doesnt really proove who is the best fighter in the world. It only prooves whos the best at winning constrained to the rules.
In any case, it takes more cardio endurance to step in a pride ring since their rounds are much longer. | |
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| Pride taking over UFC?, Has the UFC cheapened itself?
Posted: 3/3/2008 1:39:08 PM | I for one am really excited about the possibility of DREAM. I enjoyed several aspects of Pride that hopefully DREAM will continue; respectful crowds, the yellow card penalty and the tournaments.
Unfortunately UFC's main objective is to make a profit so to answer your question it's hard to say if UFC has cheapened themselves because it's not like they started out like Pride (more integrity) and then jumped the shark. This has been their goal all along.
I understand where UFC is coming from paying Lesnar so much and poor Sylvia basically getting the shaft. It's kind of like working for a company that doesn't give a crap about it's employees; all it cares about is the bottom line. Sure they have the potential to be a successful and powerful company, but in the long run those companies run into trouble because their employees aren't happy. We've already seen a sprinkling of that with UFC.
Regardless both organizations offer something different that I am able to truly enjoy so I can't help but hope that DREAM is able to bring back some of those things I preferred about Pride. | |
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