| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/13/2008 12:05:14 AM | I'm watching a special about illegal drugs on the History Channel. In it they advance the controversial notion that the current War on Drugs was started by the Nixon administration as a means to suppress political dissent. After all, it was mainly people on the Left who were opposed to the Viet Nam war who were vocal about personal freedom and the use of drugs back then.
The show quoted a memo from J. Edgar Hoover that encouraged local authorities to arrrest leaders of dissident groups on drug charges if they could. Is it really such a surprise that the legislation that classified recreational drugs as those most in need of severe penalties was passed in 1970?
The show also makes the claim that half of all prisoners in the federal system are there on drug charges. Is this new Prohibition justified? Or would we be better served to eliminate the penalties for possession and use, and instead go back to the old system of taxation--similar to what we do with alcohol?
We could keep the same FDA regulation scheme, but jail people who fail to pay the taxes.
Your thoughts? | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/13/2008 12:33:14 AM | The show is correct, in 1970 the United States Congress established the current system for regulating drugs according to there supposed harmfulness under the Controlled Substances Act, or CSA. This act under Title 21 USC 812 established 5 regulatory schedules in which to classify drugs and substances.
However if you consider pot for instance, it is classified as being as dangerous as heroin and LSD.. Cocaine and meth are schedule II drugs, meaning they have some medical value... However Cocaine hasn't been used as a medical treament since 1914.
When they first started a ban on pot, they used taxation, BUT just as certain ammunition and guns, there were no tax stamps for the drug, and they busted the people for possession because they didn't have a tax stamp.
Would we better served, boy that is the 64 million dollar question.
Look how many people would be out of a job if there was taxation on illegal drugs? Then again one of the number one causes of deaths in teens is from drunken driving.
It is hard to say whether making the hard core drugs available as being better... At the same time the drug dealers would have to actually find jobs... That could be interesting.
I am not sure if there really is a good answer to your question...
However as an advocate for medical marijuana the FDA and DEA reasonings for having pot a schedule I drug is absolutely stupid, and illogical... | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/13/2008 2:47:32 AM | | Absolutely. I will never ever understand why one can not grow marijuana on their own property in a 'supposed' free country and smoke it on their own property. I believe alcohol is much more socially harmful drug. Government is not supposed to be a nanny state. I am not a pot smoker , I just think logically. | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/13/2008 7:37:14 AM | It's simple really ...
I will never ever understand why one cannot grow marijuana on their own property in a 'supposed' free country and smoke it on their own property.
If you could self medicate by growing your own marijuana, opium poppies, or coca plants then the major drug manufactures could not control you by addicting you to their products.
Smoke a doobie after work, who needs Somenex or some other sleep aid (one of the fastest growing drug markets at the moment)
Chew on a coca leaf like the South American Natives do, then who is going to buy all the products that are supposed to wake you up or give you a burst of energy when you need it. (Caffeine is one of the most over abused drugs in the West.)
The war on drugs is nothing more than a backhanded way to subsidize the major drug manufactures by cutting out certain all natural ways to medicate yourself so they can medicate you instead.
Better Living thru Chemicals Right ???
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/13/2008 7:52:47 AM | | i am under the belief that the war on drugs was more a war against those who are not paying their terrifs to do so.manul norriega ring a bell? | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/13/2008 8:45:24 AM | The government needed a way to make free thinking hippies illegal and at the same time make the rich richer...
The white government ran out of native pre-american indians to kill, so they had to come up with someone else to kill and take their property away..
Will it ever be possible for america to exist without proclaiming the citizens of this country some kind of enemy?
Consider all the laws that have been passed in the last 90 years..
Every citizen of this country is available to be arrested for one reason or another.
Free country? Please explain to me what is so free about this country...
The politicians and cops are the only ones that are free and this is only because they are above the law...
Why is it that cops do not have to take drug tests??
We have cops here and elsewhere that do and sell drugs.. They never worry about a drug test because they never get tested even after there are complaints about their activities and behavior.
A cop can do whatever they want and for the most part the only thing they have to worry about in being put on PAID leave... | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/13/2008 9:14:19 AM | Guys Guys Guys come on: the simple fact of the matter is that it's Impossible to cultivate Marlboro Lights, Heiniken, and Smirnoff in your bedroom.
That's all there is to the argument really, when you get down to it.
"There must be RULES to contain the fun!" - Ayng Tappin | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/13/2008 11:56:03 AM |
Or would we be better served to eliminate the penalties for possession and use,
That kind of thinking might get you hauled away for a little while to convince you to get your head right...
I see you haven't thought out the ramifications of such an idea...
Jails and prisons would have room for real criminals...
Courts would have room on the dockets to try real criminals in a short amount of time...
Probation officers would have time to supervise the real criminals such as the rapist, molesters, and killers...
The police would be free to go after real criminals (OMG) instead of busting someone with pot and sitting in the station proccessing them...
Actually, it isn't a bad idea, however, it is to politically charges for someone to try to make it happen... | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/13/2008 2:03:28 PM | Duckman that actually is the point I was working on making...
The fact is especially with Marijuana, is that it could litereally put a HUGE dent in the profites of pharmaceutical companies... They have wanted to ban the use of herbal remedies for YEARS...
If we reduced the crime rate in this realm what would these people have to do, I think that is just to scary for them to consider, and figure that as long as they get a kick back from the pharmaceutical companies it is all good...
If anyone thinks it is a conspiracy...Follow the money trail... I have... | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/13/2008 4:29:07 PM | Guys,
The original thrust of the article was that the War on Drugs was a backhanded way to wage war on the New Left.
No arguments there, but when we're talking about the culture wars, we must be clear that the Old Right was playing for keeps. | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/13/2008 5:22:14 PM | Yes i whole-heartedly believe that it is almost entirely politically motivated. and being a person who does not participate in recreational drug usage, I would say i do not have an especially biased opinion. Lets look at the facts here... Say person A smokes weed. What does he do when high? he sits around and eats stuff. sounds way less dangerous than a drunk, right? So whats the harm? there is none.
Yes, i have heard the prison stats on drugs before, i do believe they are true too. Our prison system is overflowing, and we crack down on drugs way more than anyone else it seems. Not proof, but certainly a suggestion.
It comes down to the fact that a war on drugs is flawed in theory and even worse in practice. Drugs are fun, otherwise people wouldnt do them. granted theres a not fun part after, but thats not the point. Drug users like drugs. (big surprise) therefore there will be a demand for drugs in the marketplace. There is a market to be filled. So what happens? It gets filled. The government tries to cut the drugs from the market by cracking down on those who have or traffic in drugs. This is cutting the supply side of the equasion down. Since the demand side stays high, the supply side rises to meet its needs again, this time with even higher prices. as long as there is a market, there is no stopping drugs through any legal action. Short of executing all drug users anyway. Its another attempt to implement supply side economics. Those in hcarge need a serious SERIOUS economics lesson, and not just for this mistake.
Under standing economics will never predict the stock market, but it might be able to make you a more successful person finacially. Even better, it allows one to understand the world so much better, i dont know why we put people in charge who have no clue about economics and are too dumb to hire someone who has a clue.
To wrap this up. I dont care about illegal drug usage, and cracking dowwn on it while leaving cigarettes on the market is hypocracy, which i do have a problem with. The one thing i would like is for meth labs to be either eliminated or deported, cause frankly, they actually are a hazzard to a community. Other than that, what do i care if some hippie gets baked out of his gourd? | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/13/2008 5:46:57 PM | If there was any sincerity to the 'war on drugs' or about the health of people everywhere, tobacco would be illegal. Any drug that kills fewer people than tobacco should be legal and heavily taxed. In other words, they should all be legal. But nowdays we only do something if it's incredibly stupid.
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/13/2008 5:52:34 PM |
In it they advance the controversial notion that the current War on Drugs was started by the Nixon administration as a means to suppress political dissent.
The best means I can think of to stop political dissent would be to allow people to take any drug they want. Have you ever lost an argument to a stoner?
Drugs religion and sex make people easier to control. | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/13/2008 9:30:52 PM | "War on Drugs Politically Motivated?"
File under: DUH!!
What's next? A thread on whether or not smoking causes lung cancer? | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/14/2008 2:28:00 AM | | Msg 8 you are right on the money. I would not be suprised if RJ Morris the big tobacco company is bankrolling anti marijuana legislation because its so easy to grow pot and people would choose cigarettes over marijuana thus maybe never even experiment with smoking period in future generations when pot is readily available. | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/14/2008 6:37:51 AM | Say person A smokes weed. What does he do when high? he sits around and eats stuff. sounds way less dangerous than a drunk, right? So whats the harm? there is none.
Actually, people who taked _different_ mind-altering drugs than the mainstream do somethng that is actually quite threatening. They think about things from a different viewpoint than the mainstream.
And so ensues the culture war.
But really, if the War on Drugs is an indirect method of jailing political dissenters, then it is an attack on freedom of speech.
I've been wondering why progressives have been so ineffective for so long. Perhaps they've just been ground down over time by this War on Drugs. Between that and dumbing down the schools, our freedom to think for ourselves and exercise our political will has been severely undermined. Even people on the Right are complaining that the political parties are both the same and represent the same interests. | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/14/2008 9:27:25 AM |
would not be suprised if RJ Morris the big tobacco company is bankrolling anti marijuana legislation because its so easy to grow pot
That is the very same reason the pharmaceutical companies in the US have fought tooth and nail (and have been winning) to keep marijuana prohabition going. They would lose a ton of money, and that just wouldn't do for their lined pockets.
In Canada medical marijuana is legal nation wide. The pharmaceutical company Sativex has created an inhaler that allows for a straight dose of THC, it has been approved in Canada, and Britan...The problem face is that it is still cheaper for patients to grow their own.
Pharmaceutical companies make HUGE political campaign contributions and employ many lobbyist to influence politicians. They also support big prohibitionist groups to help influence public opinions. Check out alternativesmagazine.com article written by Rick Bayer, you can see the money trail just for medical marijuana.
But really, if the War on Drugs is an indirect method of jailing political dissenters, then it is an attack on freedom of speech.
Ace this works because what a dissenter is doing is considered illegal. To many people have the false illusion that anyone that has done something illegal is not credibility, therefore they are bad apple.
Since there are at least two major interest groups that have massive amounts of money vested in keeping up the "farce" of the war on drugs, they have no problem in keeping the prohibition going. Thus people keep getting put in jail | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/14/2008 2:56:52 PM | | the only reason pot is illegal is that it is to easy to grow your own ,and next to impossible to illegalize doing so without showing the true colors of the government intentions. | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/15/2008 7:56:41 AM | i so agree with you "just2bme". Absolutely they want us on their drugs. it makes me so sick. Just look how many people are dropping like flys from mixing all the different pills easily obatained today. not just on tv but right here in my small area, already this year, 4 deaths from pill coctails or whatever they call them.
I wish we could quit talking about it and really do something about all this control from law and government. | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/15/2008 8:05:24 AM |
In it they advance the controversial notion that the current War on Drugs was started by the Nixon administration as a means to suppress political dissent. The best means I can think of to stop political dissent would be to allow people to take any drug they want. Have you ever lost an argument to a stoner? 
Drugs religion and sex make people easier to control. Only when they are illegal. Then people feel like criminals, and won't be in a position to complain when the Government does something criminal. | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/16/2008 3:18:03 PM | | In the history channel show I saw on the war on drugs pot was fisrt used as a means for large Texas land owers to legally steal the land owned by Mexicans. The gov showed in all the little films they made, that mexicans on pot were raping american women, so this law was created to supposedly stop that. I remember a Time magazine Cover from I think 78 that claimed at that time we had already spent over 70 billion dollars in the fake war on drugs, wonder what the total sum is as of today. Remember if one could snap their fingers and make pot legal overnight, millions in the justice system would be unemployed. Judges, baliffs, stenographers, court officials, prison officials, parole officials, policemen, dea agents, fbi agents, the list is endless of the unemployed if pot were to be legalized. SO that ain't never gonna happen. | |
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| War on Drugs Politically Motivated?
Posted: 2/16/2008 8:57:43 PM |
Remember if one could snap their fingers and make pot legal overnight, millions in the justice system would be unemployed. Judges, baliffs, stenographers, court officials, prison officials, parole officials, policemen, dea agents, fbi agents, the list is endless of the unemployed if pot were to be legalized.
Oh, I don't know. Perhaps if we stopped wasting their time on this latter day Prohibition we could point them at international terrorists and fund them with the taxes generated by the legal sale of recreational drugs.
Of course, if we were to give our childen better educations then we received and allow them to experiment with new and exotic viewpoints, then we won't understand how their minds work and we won't be able to control the direction in which they might take the country and the world.
What bugs me no end about that narrow-minded perspective is this: Why on Earth would the youngsters we raise to be so idealistic and heroic want to take things in a negative direction? Yes, some hot-heads got carried away with Communism back in the day, but the main reason they were pushed to such an extreme is because the Old Guard was being just as stupid and rigid and venal as they could possibly get away with and doing everything they could to suppress them. The War on Drugs is ample evidence of that mindset, and also all the good it does.
These are the same people (Nixon Republicans, aka neocons) who bewail our lack of scientific and business competitiveness. If these people really wanted to get richer and stay richer, they would get out of the way of the things that really do spark creativity and innovation: relevant education and creatively critical thinking.
Can any of us remember a time that was more filled with new, fresh, exciting, and creative ideas than the 60s? You know things have really run dry when the only thing the marketers can think of to hook us is 40-year-old music from the days when we really were creative. We really are culturally bankrupt.
My prediction? The first major economic power to both liberalize its drug laws and rigorously apply programmed learning techniques throughout its education system will be the hands-down economic winner in the 21st Century. | |
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