| | Does "Friends first" ever really work?Page 1 of 13 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13) | I've only been in this situation once and it ended-up in allot of emotional pain for me. I went for exactly the woman I wanted and basically followed her around and did lots of stuff for her. Treated her better than a friend anyway. So my question is this; does it ever work and is it ever truly "safe" or is it just a convenience for one party to get the other to do stuff for them?
It always seems very one-sided and I see guys (especially) falling for this all the time. Because I fell for it once and will no longer fall for it, I simply feel pity for them and sometimes even want to smack them upside the head. I can handle physical pain, but emotional pain is something else. Getting so close to someone just to find out they're not into you sucks. Gladly I didn;'t stick around to see her go for some other guy.
It's kinda sad because the relationship was great, but it wasn't exactly what I wanted. In the end I had to be true to myself. Today I know exactly what I want. I want a lover who could also be a best friend, not a best friend who might become a lover. Might, maybe, and someday just doesn't cut it with me. Sadly so many guys fall for this line of crap and the only benefactor is the woman.
Mike | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/17/2008 10:16:45 PM | | It depends. it depends mostly on you and the person propsing friendship.I have dated women whome I was friends with, and I have quit being friends with women wo I felt were playing me with the "FRIENDS FIRST " let down. | |
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rune3
| | Joined: 7/13/2006
Msg: 3 | |
| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/17/2008 10:22:11 PM | | It can work. I've never had any other type of relationship. But we were actually friends who could have remained platonic, rather than one person just hanging around purely because they hoped for more. As for using people, I've never allowed anyone to do stuff for me without my doing at least as much in return - in or out of a relationship. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/17/2008 10:27:59 PM | | I always start with friendship but 99% of the time I end up feeling something for the person that they do not feel for me and I am forced to either be their friend and forget those feelings or move on without them in my life. It's very painful. But then again jumping right in the sack with someone doesn't seem to work either. There must be a happy medium. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/17/2008 10:31:06 PM | I have a theory about friends first!
The difference between men & women and being friends first is (I know I'm about to generalize big time)...
Lets say a guy is at a party, a girl walks in, he looks up and thinks nothing of her. He gets to know her over time because of mutual friends, he finds out she is really cool and they become friends, he will NEVER fall in love with her because that instant attraction wasn't there. .......... Lets say a girl is at a party, a guy walks in, she looks up and thinks nothing of him. She gets to know him over time because of mutual friends, she finds out he is really cool and they become friends, she WILL fall in love with him because of his personality, his charm, wit, intelligence - because of all that - attraction has grown. .......... With that being said, you men have it much easier than we women do, women can be worn down if your are persistent and are genuine in your friendship.
I do realize there are evil people out there that use other people, I hope that is not the norm. Basically love can sweep you off your feet and carry you along in a way you've never known before. But the ride always ends, and you end up feeling lonely and bitter. Wait. It's not love I'm describing. I'm thinking of a monorail. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/17/2008 10:31:42 PM | Does "Friends First" work for some one who really, at first, wants a romantic relationship with his friend? No. I think you already know this. If you are in fact really just friends, neither of you really looking for a romantic involvement with the other, then that is another story. You may discover a romantic possibility somewhere down that road, though neither of you is secretly or otherwise hoping for it. Don't fool yourself.
If you are looking for a romantic relationship, your intentions should be clear as soon as you know them. If you don't find your one step forward is matched by one taken toward you, then you should drop the idea and look elsewhere.
It used to be considered the height of Romance that a man should pursue a woman gallantly even if she repeatedly rebuffed him. Today, this is received as either a frightening or a foolish thing for him to do, but nothing else. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/17/2008 10:32:20 PM | | from a woman`s point of view mine that is.....if you are not friends first then the guy is just using you for sex and what woman in their right mind wants that?.....just my opinion. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/17/2008 10:46:32 PM | | What you are implying is that you were attempting to buy her affection by doing thing for her. And now you are bitter because after you invested a lot of time and energy and it didn't pay off. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/17/2008 10:46:41 PM |
basically followed her around and did lots of stuff for her. Treated her better than a friend anyway.
Every guy's been through this before at some point. You lose the game when you frame the relationship as you supplicating and putting her on a pedestal. You can't recover from that. The moment you frame it as you doing things for her in return for her attention or sex, you lose. She won't respect you and will even resent you for it. It's not attractive.
The best way to benefit from this experience is to teach the younger guys around you the lesson. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/17/2008 10:47:20 PM | Seems to me you need to define what "friends first" means with another person.
I have seen some people that say friends first, and what it really means is that I am not gonna have sex with you until I know you, and am sure you won't stomp on my heart.
For others it is lets get to know each other, because in the get there isn't a real spark, but AS STATED BY ANOTHER WOMAN, a mans personality, charm, etc etc can grow on a woman...
However I have found that if a man says he is NOT into you romantically then that is what he feels and probably isn't going to change his mind.
I have also found, speaking from a womans point of view, that there are a good number of men at my age that have NO INTEREST in being actual friends with a woman. It is either supposed to lead some where, or they just are not interested in me as a person.
In my young days, (early twenties) I did have a lot of male friends. They liked doing things for me, and I repayed them by cooking for them.
So, it all depends on the context that YOU are looking at. Then it has to be compared to the context of what the other person is looking at.
If you are worried about being used, then don't do anything for the other person, it is that simple... | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/17/2008 10:58:28 PM | yes, it can when the rules change ( one is no longer a friend when he/she becomes a lover) .
Friends are friends: you don't sleep with them.
However, lovers can also become friends ( afterwards) . But a true friend should never be a lover ( according to my rules).
If you do something for a friend, it is in the name of friendship, not because you expect something from her/him ( namely, to become lovers). "I will play friend, hoping to become a lover" : That reminded me of a friend that thought, simply because he was treating me nicely, that I would make sexual concessions....NO, thank you.
Friends that are unable to respect boundaries are not truly friends. Lovers that play friends are usually fakes: this is my own experience.
One should establish where and when something ends and something of a different nature begins, otherwise confusion and misundestandings become certain: just old style wisdom. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/17/2008 11:09:55 PM | Never having had a relationship move into permanence, I can't say that it works to establish permanence, but I can say that it has two very very good sides in a relationship that is not meant to be:
1. Your relationship is built on communication and commonality of interests, NOT clothes-ripping lust and immediate gratification.
2. If the relationship fails (which statistically is more likely than not), the breakup is much more likely to be friendly and you can maintain a friendly relationship, resulting in less trauma and tension among common friends and even family.
I don't believe in drama and games, and do believe in honest evaluation of relationship potential. It saves everyone a lot of time, energy and effort if we can all be honest with ourselves. And I do believe in "Friends First" because that's where the basic compatibility is determined. You can't do that if you're too busy ripping eachother's clothes off. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/17/2008 11:19:41 PM |
I have a theory about friends first!
The difference between men & women and being friends first is (I know I'm about to generalize big time)...
Lets say a guy is at a party, a girl walks in, he looks up and thinks nothing of her. He gets to know her over time because of mutual friends, he finds out she is really cool and they become friends, he will NEVER fall in love with her because that instant attraction wasn't there. .......... Lets say a girl is at a party, a guy walks in, she looks up and thinks nothing of him. She gets to know him over time because of mutual friends, she finds out he is really cool and they become friends, she WILL fall in love with him because of his personality, his charm, wit, intelligence - because of all that - attraction has grown. .......... With that being said, you men have it much easier than we women do, women can be worn down if your are persistent and are genuine in your friendship.
I do realize there are evil people out there that use other people, I hope that is not the norm. Basically love can sweep you off your feet and carry you along in a way you've never known before. But the ride always ends, and you end up feeling lonely and bitter. Wait. It's not love I'm describing. I'm thinking of a monorail.
I can agree and disagree with tis.
I have fallen for friends I was not "IMEDIATLY" attracted too. So yes it wasa generalization.
Further more I know a few women on this site that are only into the Imediate attraction. So it is still a generalization. I do see your point though. Your point is valid. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/17/2008 11:42:19 PM | I think it does...mainly because you have to be friends to be lovers...otherwise it is not "lovers".....it is "lusters".....it's the length of "friendship" and the depth that can "mature" into love...then even into" eros" instead of staying at "agape".....true "eros" usually has a "chemical" ignition...but a smouldering ash can burst into flame if kindled just right...and a burning flame can be smothered with out passion of "agape"...otherwise...lust is lust.....wham bam...thank you mam...next?
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/17/2008 11:47:17 PM |
true "eros" usually has a "chemical" ignition...but a smouldering ash can burst into flame if kindled just right..
Yeah, I've never smouldered for a friend's ash, no matter what kind of kindling he tried to burst into ignition.
If there was anything smouldering, he wouldn't be a friend. | |
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Deev12
| | Joined: 1/22/2008
Msg: 17 | |
| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/17/2008 11:53:47 PM | As a man, I have no problem with it, as I'm sure a lot of men don't.
The problem is - many (but not all) women create the whole "friend zone" where they don't feel romantic feelings towards those they consider "friends".
For this to work, I'd think it would depend on how the woman felt about having friends with possibility to be more. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 12:02:48 AM | | Hi Mike,friendship can be a good basis for a relationship.After all we have to start somewhere.I have friendship on my profile as i got tired of putting my heart on the line .It doesn,t mean i dont want a relationship, it just means i want to build on it at a slower pace and make sure the person is really into me before i let things develop further.Yes there will be people who will take advantage and use the friendship to manipulate you into doing things for them but then you can get that in a full blown relationship too.With me, if i know the relationship is only ever going to be friendship on my part then i am honest enough to tell the person so they have the chance to move on and find what they want.Unfortunately people wont always be honest back.Making friends on here to me is a bonus while i try to find that special someone.Emotional pain is hard yes but its easy to tell by a persons actions whether they are really interested in you in a romantic way or just as a friend.Hope you find what your looking for.Take care.Misty | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 12:03:28 AM | | There's a difference between being true friends and someone like you being put in the "friends zone" and not being able to convince the woman otherwise. It doesn't sound like she had to "get you to do stuff" for her. You were more than willing the whole time you were "following her around". You say that so many guys "fall for this line of crap" but it doesn't appear that it was a line of crap at all. It sounds more like you gambled, invested a lot of yourself into someone who was clearly not feeling romantic toward you, and in the end you lost everything. I'm sure many of us can relate to the heartache after something like this occurs. Just don't fall into the trap of not taking responsibility for your own actions by focusing too much on what the other person did. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 12:06:01 AM | Did this and it stayed the same.
She became like my sister and it was impossible to change it into a sexual relationship. Still is like my sister!.......LOL | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 12:27:56 AM | Lavinia10,
These statments:
yes, it can when the rules change ( one is no longer a friend when he/she becomes a lover) . Friends are friends: you don't sleep with them.
Friends that are unable to respect boundaries are not truly friends. Lovers that play friends are usually fakes: this is my own experience.
and this statement:
One should establish where and when something ends and something of a different nature begins, otherwise confusion and misundestandings become certain: just old style wisdom.
seem to contradict each other completley. I agree totally with your first two statements, then the last one seems to dismiss both?
I am not sure if you think couples who play friend first can become lovers later or not? It seemed like we were in complete agreement, then you appear to have done a 180 on me......LOL | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 12:28:37 AM |
Lets say a guy is at a party, a girl walks in, he looks up and thinks nothing of her. He gets to know her over time because of mutual friends, he finds out she is really cool and they become friends, he will NEVER fall in love with her because that instant attraction wasn't there.
Definitely not true. Not always, anyway. Some of the best things come from that period of gradual growth or whatever. One of my best friends was actually mean at first with me. Now you wouldn't have even guessed it. No reason that dating can't be like that. Though it would be a little weird to be persisting on it with someone that hates you or something. | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 12:42:04 AM | Well put str8ahd!! Bravo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Be very carful guys, you are probably being manipulated.
Anyone who says they want to go slow and protect themselves from dissappoinment isn't ready to take the normal "risks" needed to find a relationship.
We all get our chins scrapped, so what?
Actually friends I believe, and suggest, that love is never devoid of friendship at any point. Because you are my lover I ought to be able to count on you far beyond what I am entitled to expect from anyone else who is only a friend.
In fact love is friendship with an increased level of intimacy, even personal sacrifice. This makes it more involved, deeper, more personal, and involves a more intense involvement and interaction.
I do not believe that friendship and love are/were ever two different things. If I love that person she is automatically my best friend and confident and we are there for each other in every way.
If a friend is hospitalized I will go see them right after work. If my lover is hospitalized I will take time off work to be there for her encouragement, support, and be there for her. This helps her immensely, but my friend would not even want me to do this. He/she would be very uncomfortable wondering what is wrong with this picture? | |
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| Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 2/18/2008 1:01:49 AM | Everyone has different dating histories so with mine I'll give you my take
I think friends first is the best way to go about things because I meet many women. Unless you're the type of guy who wants to date every girl you meet, what do you have to lose by making a new friend? A lot of guys say "This girl is wasting my time" etc. Do you look at things that way? If you know a girl isn't going to have sex with you , do you write her off as "Just wasting my time" ?. Perhaps not. I like friends first because I think a lot of guys believe that showing interest in a woman right away is a good thing. I think its a bad thing. I think if you meet a girl and right off the bat you already lay out your cards about how she's the hottest thing you've ever seen and you're interested, you're just setting your self up to be hurt.
But then again maybe we look at this completely different. | |
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