| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 12:12:51 PM | As the moral Zeitgeist changes in the world, more and more people are waking to the fact that believing in an invisible sky fairy named God is not a good thing. People are realizing that it's just not a rational way of thinking. And does no real good in the world - no matter you've been told. Charity, compassion, and morals are human traits, not religious.
Before you slam into me for not believing in God - ask yourself the question of why you don't believe in Thor, or Poseidon or Santa Claus (assuming that you don't) ...There is no rational reason to believe in belief... there are social and cultural reasons - but in the end they simply amount to brainwashing as a child. If you indoctrinate your children into any faith, you are in a sense brainwashing them to believe in your invisible god creature.
please have a listen to Daniel Dennett - an awesome modern Philosopher
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=6479016909008308339&q=daniel+dennett+belief&total=19&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
:) | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 12:28:54 PM |
Religion is the True EVIL in the world Which is your opinion... some will agree and some will not. Nothing new here...
It is actually possible to believe in God while retaining your rational mind.. why must it always be either/or?  | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 12:44:58 PM | | In a way I agree, there are a huge number of wars that would never have been fought if it hadnt been for religion. I see religion as being one of the biggest obstacles to true social development | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 1:38:57 PM | I agree. The atheist rationalists behind, say, the French Revolution or the Soviet Union were far more humane. They only slaughtered tens of thousands under the blade of the guillotine, and sent millions to their deaths in the Gulags.
Let's hear it for the true social development of rationalist, atheist minds!
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 1:47:52 PM | It's not if you believe in god but how you believe in god. To many, including myself, it was a dirty word because I associated god with the human concept; that we humanized god to make us feel guilty...
It's only when you break away from it you see the bigger picture. Mainstream religions are guilty of being closed minded and ignorant... go ahead, take a shot - this is my god-given opinion, as apposed to yours. :) | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 2:16:51 PM |
Mainstream religions are guilty of being closed minded and ignorant... go ahead, take a shot - this is my god-given opinion, as apposed to yours. :)
You're on the right page,Skypoet,it's not the belief that's the problem,it's how that belief manifests itself in society.A person can fashion a "god" out of a dog turd and polyurethane it for all I care,just don't write up a holy book of rules for the Blessed Dog Turd and expect me to follow it.Don't enforce your Holy Writ on the political scene and expect the rest of the world to embrace the Doctrine of the Holy Dog Turd and don't come knocking on my door early on a Saturday morning asking me to accept the HDT as my personal savior.
I think what the OP is alluding to,though,is magical thinking.That's a psych term for a condition where rational thought is put on the back burner in favor of faith in something supernatural,which is always dangerous. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 2:57:49 PM | we can't say that any one 'thing' is evil or not evil. and religion, a noun, qualifies as a 'thing.'
now, here it gets tricky. because we can call behaviors 'evil.' and behaviors in the name of religion have certainly been evil.
so, as with anything else, until someone comes along and puts their own energy into it and encourages others to do the same, it has no 'good' or 'evil.' it reminds me of a tool like a hammer, just sitting there on its own, minding its own business until someone picks it up. carpenter or slayer? that will decide how and if evil manifests. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 3:37:42 PM |
I agree. The atheist rationalists behind, say, the French Revolution or the Soviet Union were far more humane. They only slaughtered tens of thousands under the blade of the guillotine, and sent millions to their deaths in the Gulags.
Let's hear it for the true social development of rationalist, atheist minds!
I disagree with that one. The French Revolution was as much about breaking the power of Catholicism over the state as it was about anything else.
But on the other hand we have the thousands crucified for their faith during the early part of Christianity. The millions slaughtered during the Crusades, which were used as an excuse to persecute Jews throughout Europe. The millions of Jews slaughtered by Hitler. The Aztec race, killed off by the Spanish in a Catholic expansion wave. Numerous people put to death, or at the very least tortured by the Spanish Inquistion ( aah you didnt expect that one) . Huge numbers of Catholics put to the sword during the Protestant reform of England. Persecution of witches by Christian organisations, the Witchfinder General etc. The English Civil War, prompted by the Puritans. Lets not forget the current state of the middle east, due to being basically a war between fundamental Islam and fundamental Christianity. Or the millions suffering in Africa who are dying of AIDs due to the Roman Catholic Church's refusal to allow the use of condoms. Or massive poverty and overcrowding in Souyth America due to the same thing. Or the Irish conflict. Mistreatment of children in Tibet by the early Bhuddists. Conflict between Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan. An absolutely massive list of deaths and conflicts to say nothing of prejudice and hated spawned by organised religion. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 4:27:34 PM | I would that it is and has always been, narrow minded bigotry, that dismisses the merit of any pov other than it's own, that has always been the true evil in the world.
With some brands of atheism it is clear to this believer in Thor that the apple of atheism doesn't fall far from the tree of it's predecessor. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 4:35:54 PM |
You're on the right page,Skypoet,it's not the belief that's the problem,it's how that belief manifests itself in society.
I think you mean I'm not?
But it's exactly how that belief manifests itself that I'm talking about. As for what's "evil" that's to do with human behaviour and intrinsically the concept, to some, of what god is. What I’m saying is that this is not true and easily misconceived. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 4:37:59 PM |
In a way I agree, there are a huge number of wars that would never have been fought if it hadnt been for religion. I see religion as being one of the biggest obstacles to true social development
Some would say the same about Patriotism; if you can defend patriotism as a 'rational way of thinking' We will have a field day with this argument...
BTW: The majority of all wars you can attribute to Patriotism...
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 6:32:18 PM | "The French Revolution was as much about breaking the power of Catholicism over the state as it was about anything else."
Ah yes, that must have been why, during the reign of terror, the French Revolutionists erected a statue honoring human reason on the altar in the Cathedral of Notre Dame.
I don't disagree that egregious acts have been committed in the name of religion. Just own up to the fact that the same acts have been committed in the name of irreligion.
The door swings both ways, whether you like it or not. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 7:14:15 PM | Just my .o2 cents...
There's a HUGE difference between a religion and a relationship...
Religion is Man's way to get close to God.
Relationship is God's way to get close to Man. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 7:25:41 PM | Op
You can have your opinion and I must give credit to those that have destroyed the beauty of the Christ, but, There is a God and even the aliens of outer space worship and know the God that is God.
Sorry about the proselytizing of the dark that call themselves of the light. I hope for more to come to enlightenment and the Scriptures say that God is unapproachable but we can feel His essence. Much like a Star or the Sun we can not ever touch it but without it we cease to be.
Many come in the name of God promising much.
Wasn't the emperor in Star Wars elected as such and no one knew he was a Lord of the Sith.
BUT luckily Anikin tosses him into the fiery pit.
As far as Thor and Santa I AM both. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 7:39:26 PM | I'm an International Relations grad. Studied conflicts for my major. It's a pitiful myth that religion has started all, or even most, wars. Sadly, people aren't interested in learning the truth of such matters - far too simple it is to parrot the BS others put out.
Wars have been about greed and property since the dawn of man. Leaders manipulate whichever 'ology' will appeal to the unwashed (and, sadly, unthinking) masses. It can be nationalism or tribalism or language or religion - it's all a ruse but the peons never even manage to figure it out. Worse, the masses then perpetuate the leaders' intentions by falling into condemnation of others even more. You think it's an accident that Bush calls certain nations 'evil empires'? He is as bad as the rest in trying to set people against one another and shame to anyone who buys it. Dennett is built in the same vein - setting humans of any group against humans of any other group is traitorious to all of humankind and Mr. Atheist Champion is as evil as Bush in that way.
Dennett is no more 'awesome' than the scores of atheists before him. His scholarship is every bit as bad. None of them have managed to glom the simple fact that all their 'proof' of the impossibility of the Divine is based on the pathetic amount of knowledge that humans have managed to amass thus far. We are not even close to the epitome of all that can be known; indeed every day that which was formerly taught as certainty is changed. The atom is not the smallest particle. There may have not been a Big Bang. Now we find the universe is shrinking, rather than expanding. In short, we know absolutely nothing and therefore pronouncements by the Dennetts are worth precisely that.
How anyone with any sense can follow a Dennett and think that man knows any better than the rest of the humans on the planet baffles me. We, not one of us, have the slightest clue of how the universe actually works; therefore none of us can state categorically that anything is possible or impossible. It's the most ridiculous of conceits to even attempt it.
The most spiritual people I have met are theoretical physicists; they are closest of all of us to perhaps maybe grasping a molecule of understanding about what truly connotes existence . Needless to say, Dennett is not one.
Please, do yourselves a favour and never again repeat the utter falsehood that 'religion causes wars'. Greedy humans cause wars and wield whatever tools they will to serve their cause. Religion is victim, not villain. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/18/2008 8:46:26 PM |
Some would say the same about Patriotism; if you can defend patriotism as a 'rational way of thinking' We will have a field day with this argument...
BTW: The majority of all wars you can attribute to Patriotism.
Patriotism or religous fanatacism,doesn't matter,the key word here is extremism.Extremism + Greed = recipe for war. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/19/2008 5:31:05 AM | | I don't think it's religion per se that is evil. I think the evil comes from some people's need to have an unbending interpretation of religious dogma and the need to impose their belief on someone else that is evil. | |
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Nergal
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Joined: 4/29/2007
Msg: 18 | |
| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/19/2008 5:35:45 AM | | I'm not blaming religion 100% ... greed and simple human nature are the prime causes. But a lot of evil has been done in the name of religion or citing religion as the reason. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/19/2008 6:53:29 AM | Excellent post merrylass.
Once in a great while a man comes along to show mankind 'the way' to a better reality after death. These messages always seem to get corrupted in such a way by 'leadership' that we are made to believe it's ok to hate, ok to kill on a large scale because our brethren of another tribe have religious views that are not exactly as ours. Yes, it's always about greed and plunder, never truly about faith and everlasting life, if it was such wars would never start. If only for one lifetime on earth we would live in a way that would make us acceptable in a better world, we might finally break free from the misery of this one. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/19/2008 7:22:06 AM | It's all about justification really
Humans have a hard time owning up to their true motivations...even to themselves. People have desires.. greed, power, wealth..whatever (which are fueled by existential angst and fear) and instead of owning these as they are they find ways to rationalize and justify their attitudes and actions. Some use religion, some use philosophy...some use vengeance (think Gaza Strip). It's much easier psychologically to have something that one can point to and say, "but this is WHY I have acted this way...I am justified". It's projection. It's rationalization.. and it's abdication of one's own responsibility for one's choices and actions.
Everyone wants to be on the side of right...even satanists...and the mental gymnastics are truly amazing. Hitler thought he was doing the right thing, and claimed "God" and his philosophy of genetic superiority as his justification.
It really doesn't matter if the actions are moral or not (and that is relative anyway) it works the same way for good or evil. Religion is a powerful justification... how much more "right" can one be if one has "God" on one's side?
The problem here is EVERYONE claims "God" as their justification...o matter WHAT "side" they are on. Look at the conflict between the "Western, Christian" ideology and the "Eastern, Muslim" ideology... as taken from the fanatics on both sides at the moment. BOTH claim they are doing "Gods'" will... and both really believe this. This, of course, is the obstacle between them, becuse neither side will actually LOOK at their INNER motivations, or own the fact (yes it is a fact) that they are frightened of each other, because they are "different". (I would challenge just HOW different they really are).
This is applied throughout time and culture..Catholics vs. Protestants...etc....
So basically it's not religion that causes these issues but the psychological immaturity of the human race. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/19/2008 8:34:43 AM | "But a lot of evil has been done in the name of religion or citing religion as the reason."
And just as much evil has been done in the name of irreligion. That's a historical fact, so just accept it.
Atheists have killed their millions as well.
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/19/2008 11:19:14 AM | i just read that Anglican church ,,a 400 year old establishment is splitting up now because our gay supreme court and gay political government changed the law to allow gay marriage in Canada .the same people who revised and enforce there family law system ..the one thats totaly unequal for men .
get real ..............who is doing the brain washing here .. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/19/2008 11:56:23 AM | Wow
We have a Gay Supreme Court? AND a Gay Political Government? (Stephen, this one's for you!) Where's the darn memo! (Maybe they will rethink their silly English costumes!!!! and redecorate the House of Parliament! It's about damn time!)
I think some Supreme Court judges and politicians might take that COMPLETELY the wrong way.
I think you may want to do some research into the Family Law History of Canada, or would it be better to reinstate the Family Law statutes of 1910?
Gay marriage was instituted because the MAJORITY of Canadians either support it, or don't really care about the issue because it really doesn't affect them...and HOW it effects the ANGLICAN Church (which is based in ENGLAND, anglo=english) Is beyond me. There's some problems with logic here. Maybe the Canadian BRANCH of the Anglican Church... but it's a legal, political matter anyway... not a religious one. CIVIL gay marriage is lawful...no one said a church has to perform it.
It also has nothing to do with the OP..off topic. | |
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| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/19/2008 12:27:43 PM | Look at the conflict between the "Western, Christian" ideology and the "Eastern, Muslim" ideology... as taken from the fanatics on both sides at the moment. BOTH claim they are doing "Gods'" will... and both really believe this.
If written comments are not identified as Muslim or Christian before the reader read them it is virtually impossible to tell which side of the fence they are coming from.
Such as the "never suffer a witch to live" is that Muslim or Christian extremist?
And the classic "it is all the Jews fault" is that a Muslim or Christian stand?
There are places in the US where it is illegal to dance in a place that serves alcohol, and it is enforced. There are still many places in the US where a woman may not sit at a bar at all and must be accompanied by a male (preferable relative or husband) to sit at a table. Linden WA is one such place.
They are all extremist that USE religion, as Jesus said something like not allowing others to enter because you don't know the way. | |
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Nergal
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Joined: 4/29/2007
Msg: 25 | |
| Religion is the True EVIL in the world
Posted: 2/19/2008 1:33:03 PM | | No I disagree Obsidian, religion has been, and continues to be used as an excuse, or justification. It may not be the actual root cause but it is. Instead of simply refuting what I say, which does actually annoy me, why dont you offer some examples of war by irreligion. | |
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