| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 12:57:08 PM | i have noticed in another thread people said just because they were working they should come first before ppl on welfare...it bothers me greatly cause not all use welfare...some do yes but some don't and really need it to pay bills and buy whatever else they need....so why are so many having issues with people on welfare??
i feel its an issue that will keep getting worse over time and its not right to judge ppl just because they don't work...has anyone ever wondered why so many are ignorant about the ppl on welfare?? its not a pity thread either just curious to others thoughts on the issue...shouldn't one have enough decency to ask why/how there on it??? | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 1:33:02 PM | | not working because you're disabled is one thing, but not working strictly because you don't want to, or "can't" find a job, that's another. while i'm currently unemployed, and money's tight, i'm also a fulltime college student, and i'd never want to be on welfare. if you're on welfare because you have children or something, i look at it as you should have thought about your money situation before you decided to have children. people act like unexpected children are a mistake, but in reality, its a consequence of stupid actions. one of my ex's has a kid, and she's always complaining that money's tight, and sometimes its really hard....so whats she do a few months ago? gets pregnant. will she be on welfare in 9 months, or less? oh yeah. can i respect her for that? no way. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 1:54:40 PM | unfortunately, Social services in Canada ( and we were founded on socialist Ideals let's remember) are viewed by the middle class as a hand out. Unfortunately, the fact is that the programs and services that should be available to help EVERYONE be a contributing and functioning member of society either don't exist, or are so mired in bureaucracy that they're prohibitive to try to access.
So we throw money at the symptom instead of the cure. Then we villify the very people we're supposedly to be supportive of.
Poor is the new black. | |
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Mulva
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Joined: 12/28/2007
Msg: 4 | |
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Mulva
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Joined: 12/28/2007
Msg: 6 | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 3:18:59 PM | I think it's intertwined with our educational system and our health care 'system', such as it is. Until they work better, welfare probably won't improve.
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 3:20:28 PM | | I work to improve my financial status in life... this does not include supporting another person simply because they find it easier to not work. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 3:20:51 PM | | I have no problem with legitimately disabled people on welfare, but here in the US many people simply claim "depression" as a disability and sit around smoking weed all day. All you have to do in that case is fill out a form, since "depression" is basically impossible to verify objectively like an amputated limb or blindness, and bingo you get about $1100 a month cash plus $200 in food assistance. Considering $920 a month is minimum wage here before taxes, you can see where there may be motivation to scam the system. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 3:27:29 PM | | I think people on welfare should have to take random drug tests,I don't want my taxes going to support someones habit.I also think a woman on welfare should be given contraceptives so they don't bring more unwanted children into this world.The welfare system is a safety net not a free ride. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 3:31:47 PM |
I also think a woman on welfare should be given contraceptives so they don't bring more unwanted children into this world. Unfortunately, this isn't a viable solution...
How would one ensure that the contraceptives are being used?
In order to ensure that this doesn't turn into a lifestyle choice, forced sterilization would be necessary... although this would violate their human rights...
It's a lose, lose situation... | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 3:33:38 PM | | A lot of people choose to be on welfare. there should be a cut off date. 1yr and your off. I know a guy who has been on it for 15yrs and it baffles me he can get away with it. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 3:35:21 PM |
How would one ensure that the contraceptives are being used?
Some states in the US offer women the subdermal contraceptive,it's voluntary and from what I've read the women like it. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 4:20:19 PM | I did some googling, and here in Ontario, this is what people get on welfare:
Single person gets max. $325 per month for shelter and $195 for everything else.
Person with one dependent gets max. $511 for shelter and $446 for everything else if the child is 12 or under, and $486 if the child is over 12.
Who in their right mind would CHOOSE to be on welfare given the pittance that they get??? BTW, you cannot get an apt. for those shelter costs in much of the province, let alone one that is heat and hydro inclusive.
I think people on welfare should have to take random drug tests,I don't want my taxes going to support someones habit.
One of our previous provincial govts. made noise about doing this, but they were told it would not survive a Charter of Rights and Freedoms challenge. Employers can't even do random drug testing here, unless it's a matter of public safety. ie. airline pilots
I also think a woman on welfare should be given contraceptives so they don't bring more unwanted children into this world.
Absolutely, contraception should be provided. However, it should never be forced, unless and until we find a method that has zero side effects or contraindications. For example, I cannot take hormonal contraception because of some of my health issues, it would be dangerous for me. I have tried the IUD (though now it is not recommended for women who have never given birth) and it was HORRENDOUS. These should never be forced on anyone. I am, however, not against saying no increase in welfare if you have more children while on it. If your contraception fails, there's either abortion or adoption if you cannot provide for the child.
Bottom line: while I know there are people on welfare who abuse it, they are not the norm. People on assistance should not be ASSumed to be lazy, good-for-nothings until proven so.
I have not included people on disability in here (though the rates are far too low, as well but not as low as welfare) as it is a separate program. It is also very hard to get on, you have to prove to them that your disability substantially interferes in your ability to care for yourself or work. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 4:28:44 PM | I think welfare recipients should have to get their cheques in a specified place with cameras rolling. The images should then be aired on a local channel with a number at the bottom of the screen: 1-800-something. The purpose would be for people to be able to call in and rat out the large percentage of recipients who work under the table.
While we're at it, these people should not be allowed to take up space in our cities. (any town larger than 40,000 population would have an automatic ban on welfare recipients) The cities are for people seeking opportunity. Why allow this vermin to take up space like that?
Oops... back on topic....
Reasons for judging people on welfare:
1. they're a liability
2. they're lazy
3. they have no conscience
4. they have no sense of "obligation"
5. no sense of reponsibility
6. they feel they are owed: money and sympathy (sympathy... look at who started this thread)
7. they make poor choices
8. welfare is counter to the natural course of things
9. they get cheap housing... whereas workers actually have to work their ass off to make ends meet... I don't know how people make it on minimum wage... they should be the ones the government helps with housing
10. oh! and as mentioned above, most welfare recipients do work under the table... and that's just disgusting...
How dare I judge this way? Welfare was VERY close to home growing up. I know the mentality behind it. I know the cheats, the cons etc etc... I have never met a welfare recipient that didn't earn extra by working under the table... NEVER. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 4:56:05 PM | It's one of those things that started with good intentions, ending poverty. But as Patrick Moynahan predicted, it created a generation of single moms and all the problems involved, since it was only available if they lived alone. Not sure how it works now but it's like the immigration problem, the simple answers won't make it into law. All the tweaking will be unpopular with everyone which may not be a bad thing.
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 5:04:34 PM |
It's one of those things that started with good intentions, ending poverty. But as Patrick Moynahan predicted, it created a generation of single moms and all the problems involved, since it was only available if they lived alone. Not sure how it works now but it's like the immigration problem, the simple answers won't make it into law. All the tweaking will be unpopular with everyone which may not be a bad thing.
There's always going to be some that take advantage of something which is designed to assist... and that's what this system was intended to do, assist... not support. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 5:14:42 PM |
assist... not support
True. It would be an interesting exercise to imagine what the country would be like if we suddenly changed welfare to sooth our resentments. We'd probably have to pay as much in taxes to house all the people suddenly living on street corners. Or worse, on our lawns. hehe.
In a way, it's kind of a pay-off. Like saying to rioters, "Here's enough to get by on. The rules are easy to work, just be cool."
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 7:41:24 PM | Since it's not much money...there aren't that many people on it.....the Pentagon wastes more money than this.....and it's cheaper than social unrest....I personally don't care who's on welfare and who's not.
I think people are presented w/ people on welfare being lazy and irresponsible (which some are ) and extrapolate that small number into the overall group.
Frankly, the laziest people I've ever met were all on jobs and were PO'ed that they weren't getting MORE money to do the same amount of work or less. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 7:46:15 PM | i tend to agree with cocytus.
i feel far more sympathy than anger towards welfare recipients. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/2/2008 10:46:14 PM | | I'd much rather spend my tax dollars on social welfare programs than on corporate welfare programs. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 4:06:52 AM | | i completely agree with whoever said that women on welfare should be given birth control. i think its completely ****ing ridiculous that people who don't have money are breeding, and milking the government for more. if you can't afford the children you have, or can't afford to have children at all, and you're living on the state's money, you should get the shot. its really easy to control. you require a piece of paper to pick up your check the first time. the piece of paper states that a doctor gave you the depo shot. done deal. if you don't like it, get a job. its not invading anybody's rights because you don't have a right to the money. the money is a gift from the government, and to receive that gift, you must do something in return. temporarily sterilizing yourself is the price you pay to do nothing with your life. its the perfect solution to the worst problem any country has had to face. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 4:10:15 AM | and another thought.
in america, cause i heard some canada talk. something like 85% of children born to mothers w/out private health insurance test positive for cocaine out of the womb. that number drops to 3% with mothers who do have private health insurance. those figures alone should show you the massive problem in this country. drug testing for welfare recipients should be mandatory. it should be treated more like probation, and less like a debit card. people should be ashamed to be on it, and they should be working to get off of it. you shouldn't get fancy debit cards sponsored by visa and mastercard, you should get bright red cards that say "poor mother****er". while i'm being harsh, its true. this country should be isolating these people, not making it easier to join up. its easier to get welfare than to join the military at this point, and we're in the middle of a war!
i totally agree with whoever said that major cities shouldn't be sponsoring welfare recipients. i don't see the reason why large cities have section 8 housing. the job market is very rough, the competition is high, and 99% of people on welfare lack an education. i'm fine with giving people education, but not enough people take advantage of it. but there's no reason for a family of 6 to be living on welfare, in houses worth 10x what the government is paying the landlord through section 8 in a large city. i live in long island, and i see it all the time. you can spot the section 8 house. the lawn isn't mowed, there's 6 cars on the driveway, and there's childrens toys and bicycles all over the front yard. the houses all around it are perfectly kept, and there's never a car in the driveway except after 7pm because the people who live in those houses WORK. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 5:11:14 AM | unfortunately those on welfare carry with them the stigma of being lazy,and drunks,many of which are.
as has already been stated,it's the abuse of it that turns people off..some genuinley do need assistance at least temporarily,but of course you have to get to know that person first to figure that out.
i think most would rather ignore someone who states they are on welfare to avoid taking the chance they could be one of those bums using the system. | |
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| why judge people on welfare?
Posted: 3/3/2008 5:57:45 AM | It is so easy to criticize others with generalizations and then add insult to injury by labelling them in the most negative of form possible.
Although it is true that some welfare recipients never try to get off the system, many who use it do so as it should be, i.e. as a last recourse.
God forbid that all the high and mighty who judge should ever need this last recourse measure. Try having to live the discrimination and shame associated with being on welfare. Try having to decide on whether to pay bills this month or put food on the table. Try having to accept food hand out at the church or community centre and having to shop in second hand store to outfit your children for school cloths, who will then be ridiculed because of their cloths and parents poverty. Try not having that extra money to pay for extra curricular activities, which nourish children’s mind and body. It's not an easy road to walk on. Try walking a mile in their shoes before judging.
Having people say they should be sterilized? My goodness how selfish and ignorant can people be! Should we do this to the men who need welfare as well? Surely they reproduce too?
A few years back, I went through a tremendously traumatic experience that temporarily crippled me psychologically. I lost my job due to the depression associated with post traumatic stress disorder, UI eventually ran out after 6 month, then what? I applied for welfare. Should I have been left out in the street because I was the victim of a very traumatic crime? Since then I’ve healed, I decided on a career change, have gone back to school, and am now gainfully employed. Yes, I was on welfare but I used it as a last recourse, like many others do. Yet, regardless of why I was on welfare, I too was lumped into those hurtful and harmful generalizations by those who jugde too quickly.
Was I less of a person then than I am now? Of course not! I am who I am. My income status should have no reflection of who I am. I am a unique, good and loving individual. Whether I was on welfare or now gainfully employed, who I am did not change because of my work status.
Those who generalize think in terms of status not in terms of the individual as a unique individual. People like that shame and label and generalize. They think they are high and mighty when often they are ignorant of street knowledge and of harsh life experiences that create social strata. What would these people think of themselves if they had to go onto welfare? Would their view point change? I would certainly hope so. Indeed, the experience is quite humbling.
What about those cities that existed because of mining or pulp or fishing industries? These were responsible men who have families to feed and expenses to be paid. Men who have had no other work experience than the one they did for 30 some odd years. What are these people to do once the factory closes? Is it their fault?
Furthermore, anyone who knows the workings of capitalism also knows that capitalism explicitly needs a percentage of people to be underemployed and unemployed.
Everyone single person deserves to be viewed by their own character, by their own life story too - No one should be lumped together in such gross generalizations as I read here.
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