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Show ALL Forums  > Manitoba  > teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?      Home login  
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 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 1
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?Page 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Has anyone else found the comments in the story in the Winnipeg Sun today (March 2nd) bizarre?
Here's the story :

A teenage boy has been arrested in the death of 13-year-old Cody Shuya, whom police say was fatally shot -- apparently by accident -- with a pellet gun stolen from a nearby garage.

The confirmation that the Feb. 23 shooting came after a loaded air rifle was stolen from behind a West End home has prompted city police to recommend that homeowners with such firearms store them securely and out of sight.

"If they're going to be stored in a garage, they should be hidden. They should be stored unloaded," Const. Jacqueline Chaput said yesterday.

"Whether they're small air pistols, handgun types or rifle types, they can cause substantial injury or death -- as we clearly see in this case."

Shuya was found shortly before 1 a.m. on Feb. 23 at the rear of a house in the 300-block of Home Street suffering from a gunshot wound, and was taken to hospital in critical condition. He died there Feb. 25.

A 17-year-old male described by police as an "acquaintance" of Shuya was arrested Friday and charged with criminal negligence causing death, breaking and entering and breach of probation.

After allegedly breaking into a garage in the 300-block of Home Street and stealing the pellet gun, the boys are suspected to have handled the pellet gun before one grabbed it from the other.

"There was no struggle for this gun," Chaput said. "The one youth takes it away from the other, and as he's taking it away from the second youth it's discharged and it strikes him, and subsequently causes his death."

Though the shooting "doesn't appear to be purposely done," she said, investigators would not say it was accidental.

Shuya was apparently struck by the pellet in the head or neck.

While the 17-year-old remains in custody at the Manitoba Youth Centre, one of Shuya's relatives is already worried he will receive only a "slap on the wrist" if convicted.

"Cody will never get to continue to live his life, but this little piece of s--- who was arrested will," said Robin Grant, Shuya's aunt.

The 17-year-old cannot be identified under the Youth Criminal Justice Act. None of the charges against him have been proven in court.

Retailers of pellet guns warn that they can be powerful enough to seriously injure or kill.

"It's a gun," said John Medeiros of S.I.R. Sports Store.

"It's not a toy. It's meant for people who are target shooting, people who are serious. It's not to have little Johnny playing with a gun, cowboys and Indians or cops and robbers. Those are little plastic ones that you get in a toy department."


First, the comments by the police implying that the gun owner should have stored it better; thus taking some of the blame away from the two teen lowlifes that broke into his garage and stole the weapon.

Then, the comment by the aunt of the teen that was killed. She's upset that the youth arrested will just get a slap on the wrist by the justice system. To quote her:

"Cody will never get to continue to live his life, but this little piece of s--- who was arrested will," .

I'll be fair and say that just maybe the editor atthe Sun screwed up and didn't include her full statement, which should have read as : " but this OTHER little piece of s--- " . Her nephew is just as guilty as the one arrested, he's not an innocent babe.


Now, assuming that the airgun owner gets his property back, this'll be a win-win-win situation.

1) he gets his property back

2) one of the hoodlums is off the street permanently, before he moves on to more serious and violent crimes

3) the other lowlife punk is arrested (hopefully he gets locked up for a while, but that's probably wishful thinking)
 imcram
Joined: 7/30/2007
Msg: 2
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/5/2008 9:05:47 AM
That's the biggest problem, the kid walks.

Just the other day in the press, their was a kid that has finally turned 18, and now they could print his name and history, turns out this kid has stolen like 86 cars, he was a ring leader for a large vehicle theft night where the kids drove the stolen cars out on to the river, cost MPIC a big chunk of change, which in turn adds more bills for us.

I feel that the laws need to be tougher, that pellet gun kid will end up with probation and maybe 6 mths in the youth center. A tougher message needs to be sent.

These days, if I catch some kid trying to break into my car again, I would go out and take him down, long before I would call the police.

You have the right to hold a person anyway you can, that means, catch them, tie them to a chair and call the cops, as one officer told me, He may bump his head a few times going into my house !!
 SmilingOne
Joined: 6/5/2006
Msg: 3
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teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/5/2008 9:17:20 AM
I love how the families of both kids say that it's the person with the gun in their garage who was at fault. Get off it already. Accept responsibility for what you do instead of placing blame elsewhere.
If you weren't out tresspassing on someone else's property, you wouldn't have found it in the first place.

Did something happen to our generation? We're a bunch of cry babies who refuse to accept responsibility for anything and are teaching our children the same...
 peek~a~booo
Joined: 1/3/2007
Msg: 4
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/5/2008 9:51:02 AM
Agreed.and to have the news paper say the gun was in plain site and forget to mention they tresspassed on someones private property to open the unlocked door fits into your rotten brats trashing other's property and a newspaper feeding propaganda.

The door was closed and the bleeding hearts can't feed the blame to the owner.oh boohoo

you play in the fast lanes you get what is commin to YOU!!!
if your old enuff to lure in back lanes and break into buildings then you're old enuff to pay the penalty no matter what the OUTCOME is....IMO.
 funtobewth
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 5
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/5/2008 9:53:50 AM
^^^^^^ I totally agree with you......I was just reading that and almost choked on my coffee.....How could anyone in their right mind blame that guy........It was not a restricted weapon and it was on HIS property.......Those kids did a b&e and one paid for it with his life.....Very sad but those parents need to take responsibility for the actions of their kids.......It is sad how ppl want to deflect blame and say there kid is good.........What a messed up world we live in........
 SpunkyPector
Joined: 2/24/2006
Msg: 6
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teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/5/2008 10:01:00 AM
Truly a shame what has become of our youth

Guess somethings gonna have to happen before it gets better, makes me so glad I live in the country.
Now there are bad kids here too ~ without a doubt ! however it seems I can have more interaction with my kids here cause it's just us 3 and outside influences are far & few .

It really makes my head hurt to think parents can state it's the person violated...fault...wtf?
Now that is completely f u c k e d up, again it's a shame there are so many parents who let their kids run AMUK, stating they are only kids...well monkey see monkey do...
I agree with Simply Single make em be accountable for their actions, unfortunately the school of hard knocks is the only way some folks learn...it's how I learned my lessons.


EdJoe ~ (2 down)I couldn't agree with you more...to many selfish people putting themselves before the ones who really matter,
Hey folks our children are our future...raise em wrong & it'll be something you'll regret for the rest of your life. Yes sometimes s h i t happens ~ but other than that....
 Rambling Ranter
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 7
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/5/2008 10:12:35 AM
The emotional trauma stages that the three families are experiencing is sometimes referred to as the seven stages to acceptance. It is not just the families of the boys that are experiencing trauma. The relatively innocent family that was first victimized by the break in and theft of the gun will, typically, be feeling responsibe too.

Stage 1: Shock - - - what the frill just happened?
Stage 2: Guilt - - - my kids did what?
Stage 3: Fear - - - I didn’t live up to my own responsibility?
Stage 4: Depression - - - oh my god, this hurts
Stage 5: Denial - - - has to be someone else’s fault
Stage 6: Anger - - - I’m going to make them pay
Stage 7: Acceptance - - - I recognize my anger is misplaced, now what?

The teenager that stole the gun and killed his friend will eventually reach acceptance that the primary responsibility was his and his friend’s. The family members right now are just reacting naturally. Unless there are mental health issues involved EVERY teenager knows the difference between right and wrong when it comes to going onto somebody else's property and stealing.

The original victim was the folks that had their property and privacy betrayed. The greater sequence of events are tragic consequences. The catalyst was the young thieves not the home owner.

EP
 edjoecdn
Joined: 5/25/2006
Msg: 8
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teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/5/2008 10:21:29 AM
I should make reference to this thread in another about kids and raising them.

Too many selfish people ( I hesitate calling them parents ) are having kids and simply "releasing them " into the world with either a demented view or a very poor example of of right and wrong !

An absence of teaching by example what "respect" and morals are all about !

These "lost" kids then venture out on the streets and try to find their own way without any good parental examples to follow!
The parents had their kids , collected the monthly child tax benefit cheques ( which often in these cases ) didn't go towards the life and well being of the child.

The parents were either too tired, ( working three jobs ) or lazy and selfish to put a serious effort into seeing that their kids got into programs ( hockey, scouts, soccer- anything) to keep them off the street and be around kids with parents who did and do put their kids ahead of a case of beer or the full blown cable package with high speed internet !

The priorities and tendencies of the parents are often reflected in their kids...

does anyone agree with me or against !

( * please note this is a generalization ! No not every situation falls comfortably into or out of the statements made here.... I see to many cases of child poverty that has everything to do with poor parenting choices... or just simply some electing to be parents when they obviously don't have the tools or will power to carry thru for the many, many ..( read never ending ) years of rearing a child properly ! )

this is just IMHO !
 interludesolo
Joined: 11/29/2005
Msg: 9
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teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/5/2008 11:53:39 AM
I totally agree with you Ed!

I've ranted on other posts about this very subject so won't repeat myself, except to say that children are aways looking for someone to be in charge, giving them guidance, direction, values, morals. Someone who will say "no" to them when it is necessary instead of giving in. It makes them feel safe and loved to know someone is in charge! IMHO "some" of this generation are simply not parenting!
My boys were shot at with a BB gun as well, right in front of my house! Luckily they weren't hurt seriously!
I Called the Mom of the boy over to discuss what transpired, initially she sounded empathetic and appalled that her boy would do such a thing. By the time her boy started spinning his tale of lies she began justifying her sons behavior and totally exonerated him from any
wrong-doing. At that time, two years ago, I was just stunned by her total denial that her son had done anything wrong. I have since learned that "some"... not all parents will blatantly deny that their children has done anything wrong even when the evidence is quite obvious.
 printer2
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 10
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/5/2008 5:24:16 PM
I loved a letter to the editor in the paper today. A reader said mandatory gun safety lessons should be taught in school. If it saves even one life it would be worth it.
 thorndyke
Joined: 11/5/2005
Msg: 11
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/5/2008 5:40:56 PM
Sure, gun safety, which I first learned in cadets. That needed the kid to join though, where doing it in school would be a mandatory thing.
Thread idea - stuff that should be taught in schools that for whatever reason isn't.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 12
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/6/2008 12:49:07 AM
Firearm safety training is a good idea, I also learned it while in cadets... BUT the schools only have so many hours of class time available to teach the students, and they don't have enough hours to properly instruct them as is. Besides, where do you draw the line? A teenager was killed due to carelessness while commiting a criminal offence with another teenager, so let's teach these thugs to be better able to handle a firearm ?

Great, then they kill some innocent person instead of each other. What's next? Teenager trespasses onto someone else's property, scaling the required fence, and drowns in the pool in the backyard? Let's make swimming lessons compulsory in schools too.

We have to drop some other training to do this, so instead of reading, writing, history, science, mathematics,.etc etc let's teach them to swim, handle firearms safely, and how to drive safely ( so when they steal cars they won't have as many accidents).

OR we can make teaching personal & civic responsibility compulsory courses.

BTW, in a follow up story in the Free Press on Tuesday the parents of the teen arrested for stealing the pellet gun and trespassing/illegal entry are saying (along with blaming the owner for not having the garage locked that

1) he shouldn't have left the gun there
2) he must have known kids break into garages all the time
3)this case should be a wakeup call to parents about how "routine mischief" (her words) can turn deadly

What the heck???? Trespassing, illegal entry, and theft are routine mischief in her eyes? I think CFS should remove any other children from her care because obviously she has a skewed view of what actions are appropriate for people.

4) she used the lame excuse that her son felt threatened by bullying & vicimization by area gang members and associates

(maybe I'm being naive, but I would think that if you were worried about that so much, you wouldn't bre roaming the streets at 1 AM).
 interludesolo
Joined: 11/29/2005
Msg: 13
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teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/6/2008 10:15:05 AM
Children learn what they see. First role model being the parent!

Take a look at the movie "Gone Baby Gone." This movie typifies the type of home "some" of these kids come from! The end result is too often predictable, I deal with these type of kids all the time.
Personally I see a prevailing attitude of "entitlement" with a lot of kids. As in, if you can't buy it for me...I'll steal it from someone and so it goes....if parents have never taught their child at a very young age that stealing is wrong. Cracking someone over the head because they want something of yours is insignificant to most of them. The blame game kicks into high gear JMHO
 WeR1
Joined: 4/9/2007
Msg: 14
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/11/2008 4:12:17 AM
What if it had been some 5-8 year old boys who found it playing and died?
Would we feel differently about the gun owners share of the blame?

It's very likely it was in the garage because the owners do have children in their home they want to protect. I believe I have a responsibility to keep all children safe not just the one I gave birth to.

I've also been interviewed by newspapers often enough to know it's entirely possible these parents said more than 'the gun owners are to blame' but it didn't get printed. Reporters print what they want to print, it may not be lies, but it's often got the slant that they choose.
 WeR1
Joined: 4/9/2007
Msg: 15
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/11/2008 4:19:19 AM
dbl post
 brown_eyed_woman
Joined: 9/6/2007
Msg: 16
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/11/2008 6:51:50 AM
"What if it had been some 5-8 year old boys who found it playing and died?
Would we feel differently about the gun owners share of the blame?"

This lady always manages to put a spin on things that make me think.

I would be equally concerned that any 5-8 yr olds are alone long enough to sneak into someone else's garage unnoticed...I mean unnoticed in that they were not in my backyard under my supervision, where they belong at that age. My son would not have had the chance to steal a pellet gun from someone else's garage at that age..as he was still tied to my apron strings! LOL (still wish he was...sigh) In saying this, IF my son at that age did take a pellet gun...I would say it was my fault for not watching him properly.

I dont understand why parents nowadays are always trying to blame others for thier childrens mistakes. My parents made me take whatever came my way when I made a mistake. (Sometimes Mom had tears in her eyes while it was happening, as she was compassionate, but she still made me take the punishment) It is how I learned about consequences.

If we as parents to this generation do not start showing them these lessons, I am afraid of what the next generation will come to expect. A society without conseqeunces? OyVay!

I truly feel terrible for all involved-this was a terrible accident. But it will be even worse if the people directly involved are not held accountable for ther actions (stealing/"playing" with a gun)-if nothing else, a valuable lesson can be learned here. Passing the blame to the home owner of the pellet gun only ensures a lesson lost.
 peek~a~booo
Joined: 1/3/2007
Msg: 17
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/11/2008 8:54:59 AM
Awsome post brown eyed woman....and i do agree...

if an 8 year old wanders your looking at a 12 year old in a few years who is a weapon looking for a target...like the brat i saw last summer hitting the old man on a bike with a stick....at 8 when they are urchin running around the parent needs a good swift kick between the eye's.


Those are the parents that need to be charged with child neglect.
 SmilingOne
Joined: 6/5/2006
Msg: 18
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teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/11/2008 9:01:08 AM

I would be equally concerned that any 5-8 yr olds are alone long enough to sneak into someone else's garage unnoticed...I mean unnoticed in that they were not in my backyard under my supervision, where they belong at that age. My son would not have had the chance to steal a pellet gun from someone else's garage at that age..as he was still tied to my apron strings! LOL (still wish he was...sigh) In saying this, IF my son at that age did take a pellet gun...I would say it was my fault for not watching him properly.


Here, here!! And can I get an Amen!?
 peek~a~booo
Joined: 1/3/2007
Msg: 19
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/11/2008 9:05:34 AM
yeah you sure can........AMEN
 WeR1
Joined: 4/9/2007
Msg: 20
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/11/2008 3:52:26 PM
pfft..I don't believe in that world, granted I don't live in the north end, but my kid is 8 and he plays outside, same as I did at that age. Think I'm a bad parent if you want, but there must be a whole lot of us cause there is a lot of kids out there with him. Just as there were when I was a kid, and not ONE of the kids I grew up with are in jail, except the ones that work there.

I believe kids need chances to learn to make choices on their own and see the consequences of those choices and I think little kid, little problem, big kid, big problem. I'd much rather he learn about choosing safe peers etc at his age than at 16 with hormones clouding his brain.

..and I sure hope none of my neighbors has a loaded gun in their garage.

If I catch him playing with something he shouldn't be, or doing stuff he shouldn't be he gets in heck, and he deserves it(and the lovely thing about younger children is, unlike teenagers, they fink on each other all the time)...but he doesn't deserve to DIE cause an ADULT was negligent.

I realize these kids were old enough to know better, but the owner of the gun/garage was as well.

Like I tell the kids around here...It takes two to tango; you're both gonna get it.

Lot of folks around here musta been the most boring little angels ever if they can't remember doing stupid crap, that wasn't legal or coulda killed them.
gawd I miss spelly, wasn't there a thread in here, where we all confessed to being dumbass kids?Something about farm accidents, comparing guns with teachers at lunch hour?

 printer2
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 21
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/11/2008 5:50:48 PM
I do have a pellet gun myself and at times I did keep a pellet in the barrel so I could quickly pump it and chase off the crows harassing the songbirds. Sometimes at fifteen yards I would hit them and they would only squawk and not fly away. Previous to this incident I never would have thought it could be dangerous enough to hurt anyone.

I think these freak accidents occur to remind us the world is not necessarily a safe place. I remember our parents telling us to be careful enough times that it actually occurred to us there are situations where we have to be careful. Normally it was only after a close call but at least we recognized the fact.

It might be that we have tried to take all the dangers out of our world and now kids think no harm can be done to them. We put warning signs on coffee that it is hot, stickers where not to step on a ladder, that metal ones can be an electrical hazard, wood ones can actually give you a splinter. We made cars safe enough kids think they can play bumper cars with them.

It could be that some kids no longer act responsibly because we built a world where they do not have to concern themselves about their own actions. I remember seriously hurting myself as a kid and being scared to go home because I would get hit for hurting myself. That was one time I did not get it.

At 8 years old we played on the street with the other kids in the neighborhood. At 12 we were allowed to race around on our farm with cars unsafe to drive on the street (seatbelts?). At that age we also had a 22 rifle and I think we also were able to buy our own ammunition (was it Clarks or Gambles I can’t remember). Maybe everyone was busy thinking that we will be nuked by the Russians that the little stuff seamed like little stuff.
 deadlyeye
Joined: 9/24/2005
Msg: 22
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/11/2008 6:20:30 PM
Wer1's right in that we all did dumbass things as kids and believe me, I've felt the end of my dad's belt more times than I can count. And yes I learned from it all. I ran the streets as well, without vandalizing others property, but my mom always knew where we were and it was the standing rule, that if we were gonna go someplace else, we were to call and let her know where.

I have the same rules and I always knew where my kids were/are (it helps my place has always been the kid hangout) and they knew there was gonna be trouble if they did crap like these kids did. And they knew I would follow thru with the punishment. My son is 18 and still calls to let me know where he is or that he's going here or there.

My ex had to wear a handgun in his job and he had hunting rifles. We stored them in a locked gun cabinet with trigger locks on them and unloaded. The ammunition was stored in a locked tool cabinet in the garage, which was always locked as well. My kids were made to understand that they do not mess with any of it.

On this topic, I think all parties have to take some blame. The owner of the gun/garage: Fine store it in the garage, but put a trigger lock on it. A $5 accessory would've been worthy investment and worth the price of a life.
The parents of both kids: What are they doing letting them run the streets at that hour vandalizing others' property and then thinking it's eveyone elses fault? They need to own up to the fact that they could care less where their kids were or what they were up to. It is partly their fault in the death.
 funtobewth
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 23
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/11/2008 7:22:40 PM
IMO.........I don't think the guy who had a air rifle in HIS OWN garage is at all responsible.......It is not a restricted of any kind.Some ppl on here are trying to put apples with oranges and that doesn't work.......Yes very tragic anyway u look at it......But trying to put some blame on a guy who did nothing wrong is not right..........A hunting rifle and pellet gun are way different......If they were the same then they would be treated the same.........Those kids broke into someone's PRIVATE property and one ended up paying the ultimate price......But to go after the guy who had his grage broke into is wrong........I think the parents should be charged of both kids not someone who did nothing wrong.......My own opinion of course.
 deadlyeye
Joined: 9/24/2005
Msg: 24
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/11/2008 8:14:07 PM
Yes you are right in that they are two very different types of guns. But, for those that didn't know before, now know from reading the papers, that these unrestricted guns can and do kill.

I don't believe people shouldn't have the right to own them, just own them responsibly.

All I'm saying is if you buy one, purchase the trigger lock as well. And hide the keys where children can't get their hands on them.
 printer2
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 25
teen killed by pellet gun; why this response?
Posted: 3/11/2008 8:41:39 PM
Trigger locks serve two functions. To slow down someone who picks up the gun to use it (now where did I put those keys?) also they stop young kids from playing with guns as long as the kids do not want to get caught.

Any ten year old kid can beak a trigger lock off a gun with a hammer or just by using a screwdriver to remove the trigger guard. If a kid steals the gun I don’t think they are going to care about the gun looking pretty the lock will last all of 30 seconds.

More effective is to not have any ammunition around. A gun enthusiast that I knew had a nightmare where people can have any type and as many guns as they liked. The problem was they could not have any ammunition. With no ammunition all you have is a fancy looking club.

It was interesting to find out that the people calling for the pellet guns to be registered saying 11 people have been killed by them used a report from the US. Also the type of pellet guns in these cases were so powerful that they are considered real guns in Canada and have to be registered as any hunting rifle. Other than this freak accident pellet guns are considered relatively safe. I would be more worried by someone with a three inch knife than an air rifle.
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