| Just an Honest Question...Do guys find intelligence and independance a turn off?
Posted: 3/4/2008 9:30:25 PM | Hey everyone,
I know I may receive some flack for asking this, but I'm seriously curious about what guys are thinking. I'm not at a total loss about men in general. I would say that I "get" them for the most part, but something has been in the back of my mind for a while now, seeing as how I've been on this site for about 4 or so years now.
Question: Do guys find intelligence and independance a turn off?
My gut instinct says NO, but it just seems that I don't get many msgs from quality men anymore, and I'm wondering if it's because I clearly list in my profile that I don't need money or "status" to define myself. I know there are quality men out there, I guess I'm just worried that saying that in my profile is scaring many men off.
I also know that, a LOT of people in this world define themselves by money and status, so in saying that I am not impressed by it, narrows my options of people on this site quite a bit hehe. :)
So guys.. please tell me (and other independant quality women), what is really going on in your heads. I only want to understand you better !! This is by no means a bashing thread or a "I hate guys" thread. Cuz I love men! :) I just need to know!
Thanks!
M | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/4/2008 9:49:11 PM | | My ex was a total doormat and I hated it!!! Havin' your own opinion and the 'stones' to stand your ground is very much an attractive characteristic in my book. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/4/2008 10:10:47 PM | Well as for me being a single never been married male .
I can say intelligence is not a turn off . But I do find some women who do not know how to use their intelligence & independance wisely to attact us single men.
Maybe I am wrong but over the years I have found some women tend to scare more men away then they attract not because their intelligent but for the fact they overly stress their independancy to those men interested in them it ends up chasing the men away!
And yes I see this even now on POF as well.
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/4/2008 10:17:41 PM | Intelligence and independence are not a turn off, but a rarity, especially in combination. Some 'men' don't know how to handle it.
The other problem is that many men aren't comfortable in their own skin, so they seek to impress with superficial things. I like my toys to play with, not to show off. I work to pay my bills, not impress the ladies. Without the symbols and trappings, some guys really have no idea how to impress.
I will offer an observation to your complaint however. If you are truly independent, surely there would be no harm in sending messages to men that interest you rather than waiting for 'quality' men to message you. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/5/2008 5:18:42 AM | lol, outofthedesert, I know that thread...
OP, men are, imho, no more (or less) scared of intelligent, independent women, than we are scared of them being the same. If one (any gender) can balance those qualities, without a superiority complex rearing it's head, you'll find that only the (any gender) insecure are intimidated by it, and only the insincere avoid it.
btw:
While checking your profile to see if there was anything that might be misconstrued as 'off-putting' to a man, I couldn't help but notice that your favourites list doesn't seem to support your question, lol.
hugs | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/5/2008 5:34:25 AM | Question: Do guys find intelligence and independance a turn off?
Is that the feedback your getting from your profile? You may be intelligent and independant, but thats you knowing yourself, not us knowing you. I certainly don't think men would be afraid to contact you.
The positive to this is your posting to the forums which will increase your exposure to intelligent men, so who knows. | |
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Posted: 3/5/2008 7:45:49 AM | Hard to answer your question without knowing which way you mean by you are independant?
Why do girls always feel the need to state they are independant? What does that mean, anyways?
It is a bit of a turn off for me, cause it defeats the perpose of wanting someone in your life, if you truly believe you can do it all on your own. To me, that is arrogance, you grow up your whole life with love and support and now you are so jaded, closed or distant that you are just fine on your own. Love is a essential in a healthy lifestyle, anyone who says they don't long for it, is lying or either built up enough walls and closed their emotions to a state where they are telling the truth, but live their lives without passion, and anything that means something to them, is usually superficial.
If alot of you say you are independant due to the fact that you can take care of yourself financially. Well this is not the 1950ties anymore and us guys don't assume that you will be barefoot in the kitchen with three kids. Saying you have a job in the the job description area of the profile is sufficent enough.
Is strength really defined by loving yourself and not needing anyone? That is the popular choice thing to say right. But, I honestly think there is not much truth to that. Most of the people I met that have (independant) been single for a long time and do not depend on anyone have been jaded. They have been hurt and screwed over and they have manufactured a certain strength not to need or depend on anyone. I think true strength is measured through someone who stays with their dreams and beliefs and does not let anyone who hurt them, change or alter those beliefs and define who they are. They defines theriselfs, they live through their heart, they get hurt over and over again, they feel love over and over again, but when it works for them. I believe it really works, cause you have to give everything to get everything. Giving everything takes the most strength, to be totally vulnerable to someone is not safe at all. To be independant and give bits and pieces is more weak. But, that is just my opinion.
That saying you have to love yourself first and not need anyone, just want someone is predominantly said by the 30 and over crowd....hint hint jaded. lol. A teenager gives everything and relies on many. They grow up and learn a lot and go through a lot of hurt, the truly strong ones continue to give, trust and get hurt until they find the right one and surrounding people in their lives. The others come up with sayings like you have to love yourself first. You have to be independant and build up enough walls to be truly happy without that dependance or interaction, having it as a second or third option. Life is about people and love, should be the first option. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/5/2008 8:56:32 AM | | Intelligent - independant men want - intelligent- independant women!! They also know how to get along without any BS or presumptions.OP if you are not finding compatible men - you may not have found someone of those qualities! | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/5/2008 1:28:23 PM | mOnarch: to me i don't think intelligent and independant woman are a turn off to me. I really appreciate a woman with an abundance of knowledge and who is willing to teach me something new and help finish the crossword puzzle lol. To me you seem pretty sure on what kind of guy that your looking for and I am sorry that things havent worked out for you so far.
There is a lot of great guys on here that i am sure appreciate the attriubtes that you possess.
So I say be patient as that special guy will come along  | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/5/2008 2:19:38 PM | well I can tell you what's going on in my head AND I can give my opinions and observations about the subject in general
my opinoin: the more intelligent the better, if a hypothetical g/f is going to be spending time with both me an my friends then she's going to need the intelligence to keep up with being social in my group of friends
overall opinion: this is a patriarchal society and I did read a forum post here on POF and to give a brief summary of it, it boiled down to this: in order for a relationship to work the man has to be equal or better than the woman in ALL aspects (the woman who posted it was much more elegant in writing it than I just did, but hopefully I'm getting the point across) and if the man feels like he's not equal or better than it won't work (at least not in his mind)
and if there's an intelligent woman then going with the above forum post I'm using to base my opinion on then she isn't seen as a potential g/f, she's seen as a threat to the man and his idea of masculinity. and if a man sees a woman as a threat. . . she's not going to be considered g/f potential (small hunch) and is in fact going to be brushed off.
sad to say, most men and women will judge each other based on totally abstract concepts (like money) and all of the people I mentioned will end up settling for something that's not what would truly be a good relationship as they're concerned with things that have nothing to do with being a quality human | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/5/2008 6:43:36 PM | Guys are thinking about getting laid. They think about whether they want to have sex with the target the rest of their lives.
Quality guys and girls get snapped up fast. You have to hit one by chance.
That's not slam on people that have been here a long time, because some people choose to be single. Some are unlucky.
Some fake quality well. That's a slam at nascar3fan. :) | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/5/2008 7:56:04 PM | M0narch,
Regarding "Seems that I don't get many msgs from quality men anymore...I guess I'm just worried that saying that in my profile is scaring many men off."
Do you really want to attract those men that arn't attracted to confidence & intelligence? Don't worry about scaring some of the men off....THOSE that run ...are the ones you don't want anyway....
It has nothing to do with QUANTITY and EVERYTHING to do with Q U A L I T Y!
Happy Fishing!
Shay | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/5/2008 9:55:24 PM | Well like I said earlier its not a womans intelligence that most guys are afraid of!
Its this so called independance that some women stress with great detail that scares the good men away! As some women tend to stress very heavly their indepenance and which seems to say that anyone who wishes to date them would have very strict rules to date her bye ! And that my sexy lady friends on pof would scare alot of great men away from wanting to date ! | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/6/2008 6:13:03 PM | After reading your profile, the most glaring thing that caught my attention in a negative way, was the fact you claim "I like to make people think."
That's boring, pretentious and contentious. I interpret that comment as "I'll knit-pick at everything you say.... just so I can feel smarter than you."
dating and relationships should be fun... not irritating. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/7/2008 12:20:30 AM | Well thank you everyone for being honest, and giving your opinions. I appreciate that very much :)
Maybe to clarify my stand on things a bit:
I don't refer to "independace" as my having a job or my own money or anything like that. (Well maybe a little, but that wasn't the real point of it). Basically, I mean idependance as knowing who I am, and not being afraid to be myself. I don't need to be a part of a certain "crowd" or group to know who I am. That's the simplist way that I can explain my definition of my "independance".
And for the intelligence part, I am very far from being a snob or a rocket science professor LOL!! I just love culture, history, science, etc.. and I don't usually sit around talking about what kind of shoes I bought, and how "I was at the mall yesterday and saw so and so, and OMG they were so fat! What kind of diet is she on .. and who is she dating OMGZ!".
Although SOMETIMES I DO do those things, but that's not all of who I am ;)
I guess I just feel that a lot of guys look at the girls that are like that, and it makes me feel "inadequate" in a certain way. Because I don't care about fasion for the most part, and I don't care about branding myself and so on...
As for waiting around for guys to message me.. I don't do that. If I see a guy that I like.. I will not hesitate to send him a message. Most guys do reply, but I find out later that I'm kinda dealing with someone that is not right for me somehow. (Maybe they only want to talk about their cars, or how much pot they smoke LOL, or they simply can't hold a steady conversation for more than 2 sentences..)
I know that I have to be patient and just go through the whole sorting process, but I just thought that my profile was somehow limiting my choices. Which it IS in a good way, but I thought perhaps that maybe it was in a bad way hehe.
Thank you again for your comments. Please keep going. I love to read the responces, and I'm learning something from everyone's post.
M | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/7/2008 12:22:01 AM | That's how you take that statement??
I don't see it that way. I guess I take it as: I like to learn. LOL.. Maybe I should think about that little statement a little bit.
I am nowhere near pretentious, so maybe that line is putting at least ONE person off :)
M | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/7/2008 5:21:55 AM | Well I'd date you!!
But really.. although alot of men have stated that they like "strong" or "independant" women.. I find thats not really the case. In my experience they are somewhat threatened by the fact that you can do most things for yourself, and are not meek or helpless. But since I can't generalize the entire male population based on my dating experience.. I'll say this.
There will be one out there that thinks that YOU are the coolest thing on this earth.. it might take a while to find them, but thats half the fun! | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/7/2008 6:30:48 AM | Oh, come on Mae, you know that most men can't tie their own shoes without a woman looking over their shoulder.  Women are supposed to be the independent ones, and men are supposed to be looking for a mommy replacement.
And before my head explodes: independent, independence. Independent dependants are not dependent on their parents. | |
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Posted: 3/7/2008 7:48:08 AM | i kid not, i can't tell you how many men i've dated who tell me that I'm too smart for them, that it bothers them. now, am I a nerd--for sure! i'm a book geek and a school junkie..i'm always taking a course and As and theoretical/philisophical thoughts go with me like peanut butter goes with jelly. but, don't ask me how to change a tire, bake a cake, or build an ikea bookcase--i've been taught over and over again (father an electrician and mother is a domestic diva) and I have a respect for all kinds of smarts--my parents are two of the most intelligent, creative people i know but in a different way than me. but, nope, it doesn't seem to matter...i put the glasses on and, poof, the boys scatter 
Then there is of course that I've travelled more than the average person and often on my own as a single female...shockingly, this freaks most men out. and, well, i've kinda done some odd and unique things in my life. Only child with parents who wanted me to have the luxury of exploring and acting on my inquisitiveness, giving me lots of opportunities to express myself and understand my wanderlust and nerdy self. freedom to explore ideas, sensuality, movement, thoughts, imagination, etc.
yeah, compared to most, i live so beyond the box that I can't even see the boundaries... instead I live as a chaotic, yet wonderous, element of the universe.....great place to set up house but not too often I get male visitors stopping by...those that do tend to eat and run 
eh, i just chuckle now but it really proves just how weak male egos are in this day and age...I'm not a man hater but I just find many are so disappointing with their fragile natures. so i just say, whatever, and carry on skipping down my rainbow, hippy path and if they want to join me, go right ahead, but they better keep up and those that can't, no biggie, they can go back to their shoe and live happily ever after there; I hope they have a wonderful life full of joy....whatever makes you happy, go for it, but i can't be happy being something that I'm not, nor would i expect them to conform for me.
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/7/2008 7:55:18 AM | I have done things that most people only dream about. I have been places the some only read about. I have worked in different fields that some do not even think about. Am I independant? You bet your a$$ I am. Do I scare away the boys? Been single for 7 years now, so you figure that one out. Do I want to be alone? NO! Deep down inside I am just a mushy traditional woman who would like to have someone share all my quirky things. Am I really that independant? I don't think so, I just had to be.
Now give me that friggin hammer. My grandmother could drive nails straighter then you can! | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/7/2008 12:53:56 PM |
Question: Do guys find intelligence and independance a turn off?
i'd think generally speaking, it would depend on how the independence and intelligence presented itself, whether negatively (making the other person feel unneeded or stupid) or positively (giving the other person space while still caring about them and an ability to understand and contribute many kinds of things)
and also, on what the guy is looking for in a woman... some people do seem to want others to be more needy... | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/7/2008 6:16:11 PM |
it would depend on how the independence and intelligence presented itself
I agree. Dignity and pride can be at risk when independance and intelligence is used as a sword as opposed to building bridges of communication.
I find that many independant and intelligent women are not drawn to me because I can appear to be a bit of a hard-ass. I am a little rough on the edges (was not raised in a cultured environment) but I still giggle when you poke your finger into my tummy. | |
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| Just an Honest Question...
Posted: 3/7/2008 10:15:06 PM | My ex let me do everything my way. She would close her eyes and ears, and blindly agree t every thing i said.
>> i HATED it.!
i'd like someone who has her own opinion, choices..! | |
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