| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 6:41:46 AM | Doesn't make sense to me. They hate paying child support, complain about it, count the days til a kid turns 18, then consider starting a new family with the new wife. WTH?
and then suggest that since they "may" be starting a new family they won't be able to pay child support to the first because they will have a family to support. I'm speechless by this suggestion.. and speechless that a man would even consider doing this.
Talk about starting over.. LOL.. Guess they figure new wife, new kids.. It will ALL work out. No doubt. LOL
Men, please answer truthfully and honestly. This isn't about my situation but one I recently heard of. It could happen to me, the ex remarried last year.. Just flabbergasted that anyone would consciously put themselves back into this situation. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 7:22:55 AM | I agree the attitude that they now don't have to pay support for their kid is wrong, and I am disgusted by men who have this attitude and don't know why they feel that way.
As for our feelings towards paying support...
Yes, we hate paying support because many times it is used by the mother to provide her with things instead of providing for the child. My ex is a prime example of women like this.
Despite the fact that she makes half of what I do she has a similarly sized house, a $400 a month SUV payment (I drive a 10 year old beater with 200K miles on it) and regularly takes (very nice) vacations without my daughter (I haven't taken a vacation in 8 years). And then, she complains to a mutual friend that I do not pay enough in child support.
I would never think about not paying support for my daughter and realize that it is my responsibility to help care for her financially until she is of age. But many men see their kid's mother as abusing the money that is suppose to be for the kids. That is why we can't wait for them to turn 18 (22 if they go to college).
As for why we would start a new family... don't we deserve a chance at happiness? Or are we simply an ATM / wage slave that is to give money to our kid's mother and never move forward in our lives. Now, starting a new family does not mean we don't still have to support the previous child - but the mother needs to realize that we can not still provide the same level of support as before (and most courts take new / additional children into account when calculating support obligations). | |
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| My two cents
Posted: 3/7/2008 7:38:29 AM | It's disgusting and horrible and awful and sh*tty BUT
These guys that do this didn't just turn into a piece of sh*t they were always pieces of sh*t. At some point we have to take responsibility for our mistake of having kids with the a**hole.
I say to women do your part, stay on top of the attorney general and child support division, pursue it b/c it is their responsibility and they are obligated legally. In the meantime, improve your own living situation and kill 'em all with kindness.
My ex is going to jail b/c he isn't paying but I'm not mad at him. He is who he is. He has no power or control over my life. Especially not my (our) happiness and well being. I refuse to let my children suffer b/c I made a bad decision when choosing their father.
I worked my a** off and moved up the career ladder and then went back to school. We have no control over what someone else does. However, we can have control over our own life.
Yeah getting a consistent check would be nice but I don't count on it nor do I care if I get it.
Oh don't forget "What goes around comes around" | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 8:12:28 AM | Firstly, welcome back fairmont.
As for starting a new family, the courts in Canada have held for a number of years that a man cannot use the excuse of starting a new family as a reason to avoid paying child support. It's basically you have to be able to take care of your first family first prior to starting any new relationship or even considering a new family.
With that in mind and with so many of paying child support it is a clear deterrent for any of us to start new relationships since we would have to bear the financial risk if the relationship didn't workout. If I use myself as an example, I pay between 800 to 900 per month for my daughter, if I was to have a new family and lets say she had 2 kids from a previous marriage where the dad didn't pay or we had two kids, this would raise my child support payments to almost $2,300 per month. I don't understand how any guy is willing to take that financial risk at the expense of their first family. Better to be single. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 9:26:47 AM |
Theyre still obligated to pay for the first child, but payments will be reduced from 15% to 10% for first child and im sure decrease if they have another.
Crap, I know.
Wow, men in Scotland (believe that's where your profile said you were from) have it easy.
Here in the U.S. I pay close to 1/3 of my take home pay in child support and I have my daughter with me 50% of the time. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 9:38:16 AM | Good question Polara. I think it is primarily because women do not consider that it is not the X that is the problem, it is the man. He was not some innocent victim that was a great guy and a great dad who was wronged. Some of the allegations he made against his X were accurate so I bought into all of it without recognizing that he drives people insane.
You also often don't go into a marriage thinking what if it tanks. There was some at least partially conscious ignoring of the obvious so I too take responsibility for marrying and having kids with a jerk. Easier on everyone involved if the x-wife remembers that the new wife has not had her learning curve. I feel sorry for anyone that gets involved with my X, I truly do.
Actually, in Texas child support does not decrease if the individual has a child. It only affects any applications to raise child support later. My stepdaughter's mother went back to court when she was 10 and her increase was not much because in the interim he had three kids. She also gets 10% for one child while I get 14% for three. The system isn't fair, it tries but it is flawed on both sides. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 9:50:17 AM | Sounds to me OP that you're just angry that the ex is starting a new life. I see that you say this isn't happening to yourself however the passion in the message tells otherwise.
I realize there are differences between Canadian and US laws however I can't imagine that your courts would legally allow him to walk away from his financial responsibilities to his kid(s). If he wants to start an new family and have more kids that's his business but that doesn't mean he can just walk away from his other children. Maybe the courts will give him some kind of reduction in what he has to pay but if he he's complaining that he can't afford to start a new family because of his payments then maybe he should reconsider having and more children.
and then suggest that since they "may" be starting a new family they won't be able to pay child support to the first because they will have a family to support. I'm speechless by this suggestion.. and speechless that a man would even consider doing this.
Men do and say stupid things at times so from that angle it's hard to answer however I can tell you a real father would never say this. Eastindy mentioned it above that it's ridiculous what the ex is spending the money (new car, vacations) and not on the kids....however he, like many other fathers, will always be there, financial and physically, to support their kids. Besides when the kids get older they'll realize how much dad did for them and how much mom got away with  | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 10:39:06 AM |
Well, in the US it doesn't matter how many children they have the support stays the same with the first child and if they end up having to pay support for more then the next children get a lessor percentage.
That's not true. In the U.S. family law varies from state to state. In Indiana, where I live, subsequent children do change the amount of support that is to be paid to the child from the earlier relationship. Each state is free to determine how support obligation is calculated, how support is to be paid, when support for a child ceases (ages 18/ 21 / 22 and at the completion or dropping out of college being the most common). | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 11:01:37 AM | Is it not the same as a custodial mother who complains and laments about the lack of cs or the small amount of cs while she sits at home and does not herself contribute financially towards the rearing of the children?
Is it just my biases or is there any truth to my observation that the ones who complain the most about not receiving enough cs are those parents who are themselves not working or not working full time?
Mind you those who are collecting and perhaps lacking a level of morality can re-marry knowing that if the marriage fails they may/ or will be double dipping going after cs from the second husband for the same children?
Hey...perhaps that would be reason to marry? I can collect from the second what I do not do for the first? LOL...Actually there is a established case law that requires one to pursue cs from the first before one can pursue the second patsy....sorry...partner. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 11:02:28 AM |
Wow, men in Scotland (believe that's where your profile said you were from) have it easy.
Here in the U.S. I pay close to 1/3 of my take home pay in child support and I have my daughter with me 50% of the time.
So do some men in the US. Consider a man who has five children with three women - no contact with any of the children (his choice) he still only pays 50% of his income. If he has another four or five kids, guess what? Still only 50%.
Interesting system, eh? | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 11:08:02 AM |
So do some men in the US. Consider a man who has five children with three women - no contact with any of the children (his choice) he still only pays 50% of his income. If he has another four or five kids, guess what? Still only 50%.
Interesting system, eh?
Max percentage is only 50% in Pennsylvania? In Indiana, up to 65% of a non-custodial parent's wages can be used for child support. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 11:13:15 AM |
Interesting system, eh?
It sure is an interesting system;
Woman is collecting cs from multiple fathers...or should be collecting from multiple fathers for children that she has. So three children all with different fathers and still she can collect or double dip on any of the children.
Now a smart person would suggest never parking your smart car in her garage!
But what about the paternity fraud issue?
WASHINGTON ? More than three years ago, a Maine district court judge ruled that Geoffrey Fisher no longer had to pay child support for a child that wasn't his.
But that didn't stop the state from revoking Fisher's driver's license and coming after him for thousands of dollars it says he owes in back payments.
Last year, Maine sent Fisher, 35, a letter seeking $11,450 in child support, even though officials know that DNA tests proved he isn't the father of the child in question.
In the summer of 2001, the Maine Department of Health and Human Services took him to court because of delinquent payments. The court ordered him to pay up, and the state had his license suspended under the "deadbeat dad" law.
That fall the girl, then 3, was placed in foster care. When Fisher pushed for custody, the state ordered a paternity test, which proved he wasn't the father.
At that point, one branch of the human services department told him he could no longer see the girl because he wasn't the father, while another said he owed $10,000 and couldn't have a driver's license because he was the father.
Fisher thought the matter resolved when a judge ruled he no longer had to pay child support in January 2002.
But then last spring, the Maine attorney general's office claimed Fisher still owed support payments for the time from the child's birth until she reached 3 years old, when tests proved Fisher was not the father.
But you are right it is an interesting system? | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 12:17:47 PM | I NEVER missed a child support payment . . . ALWAYS paid on time . . . but the ex wanted some way to verify she was a victim. I sent the check via certified mail, she elected not to cash the check (to show the court I had not paid), and claimed non-support. I elected to pay through the State Child Support Agency. She regularly sued for increases in child support payment. I spent YEARS in and out of court defending myself. Her lies finally caught up with her, and the judge finally threw her in jail for 30 days for perjury.
I was glad when my son’s eighteenth birthday arrived.
Today, she is a melted, ugly, smelly blob, just like Dorothy’s Wicked Witch. She should have learned to take a bath (though she would have polluted the water).
And what of her? She married a milquetoast a week after the divorce was final – poor doormat.
. . . and of me? She taught me how to fight and hate monsters. Gimme dragons anytime!
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 12:42:17 PM | | So what are you trying to say? That men should no longer have relationships or families if they have a child from a previous relationship? As far as paying, yes they should continue support, so should any woman who has been ordered to do so. I have custody of my kids and never saw a dime, didn't stop her from having relationships, actually glad she moved on. I would think all of us here are hoping any new relationship we find would work out. Not much point of being here if you think otherwise. Wonder what the response would be if a thread were started asking why single mothers are allowed to have further relationships or children, since they couldn't make the last one work. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 2:45:02 PM | Because no one goes into a marriage saying, "Oh man, a couple of years from now my marriage is going to go to crap, and I will have two more children to pay child support."  They don't anticipate having to pay more child support.
As far as their attitude toward child support....I think it is wrong...enough said. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 2:45:45 PM | WestPark2 - Maybe in Canada, parents can collect child support from multiple partners (expartners) but not in the US.
Um, and I only have two children... so, not sure who the heck you were talking about in regards to "three kids by three fathers" and double dipping - but since I'm in the US, there is no "double dipping" here and since I only have (and only ever will have) two children, I'm going to assume you were speaking of someone else.
In regards to paternity fraud, I agree with it no more then you do - and if the man had to support the child, then he should have been given custody of her - no question, no test. If they decided he was NOT her father (due to the DNA test) then he shouldn't have been responsible for the child support at all. Paternity fraud hurts EVERYONE in the big picture. Men who have to pay support for children who turn out not to be theirs, children all the way around and honest mothers who only want *fair* support for their children. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 2:53:21 PM |
Max percentage is only 50% in Pennsylvania? In Indiana, up to 65% of a non-custodial parent's wages can be used for child support.
Indeed... sucks if a NCP has the restraint to only have two children (has to pay up to 50%) but if NCP decides to drop children all over the place, s/he gets off damn easy!
Figure if my ex-husband had five children with the same woman and was still in an intact relationship with her - he'd be putting out FAR more then 50% of his income towards the care of those children. But since he decides to be prolific and walk away, he will never pay more then 50%. Because he makes partial monthly payments (about 9 months out of the year), he has his driver's license, his bank accounts and walks a free man despite owing his children more then $22,000. His brother was behind by $3,000, but because his ex had the time to call Domestic Relations EVERY day to complain, he spent 60 days in jail. Not sure if that helped pay the arrears or not, but seems counter-productive to me (my ex would lose his job if he went to jail for even a few days - kind of hard to pay support if he loses his job). | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 3:04:28 PM |
I NEVER missed a child support payment . . . ALWAYS paid on time . . . but the ex wanted some way to verify she was a victim. I sent the check via certified mail, she elected not to cash the check (to show the court I had not paid), and claimed non-support. I elected to pay through the State Child Support Agency. She regularly sued for increases in child support payment. I spent YEARS in and out of court defending myself. Her lies finally caught up with her, and the judge finally threw her in jail for 30 days for perjury.
I was glad when my son’s eighteenth birthday arrived.
Today, she is a melted, ugly, smelly blob, just like Dorothy’s Wicked Witch. She should have learned to take a bath (though she would have polluted the water).
And what of her? She married a milquetoast a week after the divorce was final – poor doormat.
. . . and of me? She taught me how to fight and hate monsters. Gimme dragons anytime!
While I realize there are three sides to every story, if this is accurate - she ought to have been grateful that you were so mature and cared enough about your son to contribute to his support.
I'd be thrilled. Thrilled. I work FT to make ends meet and it's tough because I can't count on the support to help care for the boys.
My exh has taken me (and both of his other exes) back countless times in the five years since we separated - always asking for a reduction. He never gets one because the numbers are facts - once he even got a dramatic increase. I have *never* taken him back for an increase, because I feel what he is ordered to pay is fair (never mind that he has *never* paid it), but he doesn't see it that way. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 3:12:01 PM | exactly, just because you had issues with your ex with his irresponsibility to provide for his kids mean other dads are doing the same thing. This applies to both sexes.
Regardless of having further kids, a parent should be financially stable to suppor his first kids before thinking of having more. That is just unfair for anyone. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 3/7/2008 4:36:10 PM |
Thank God I live in Alabama then. I would be pissed if my support got lowered just because he decided to have more children.
Actually, I was just speaking with a friend about this. Alabama is one of 13 states that do not lower support based upon subsequent children.
The legal reasoning behind it is that it is unfair to the subsequent children for them to see less support simply because they are born later.
So for example say a non custodial parent is has a child support obligation equaling 1/3 of his salary. They have another child from a different relationship. The court recalculates his combined child support obligation to be 55% of their salary with each child receiving 27.5%. So it really is not a major reduction in support for the first child (unless the non-custodial parent has already reached their maximum child support obligation percentage and is still having children).
I have a bigger problem with women receiving full levels of support from multiple fathers (ie she has a 4 year old and a 3 year old and and both of the fathers are paying full support, when many items from the 4 year old can easily be recycled and used for the 3 year old. | |
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