| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 3/9/2008 2:17:54 PM | Is anyone else as extremely excited to see this thing turned on (LHC)? Do you think they will find the higgs boson, or something equally as exciting?
If you have no idea what I am talking about there is a large particle collider that has been the works of being created, the biggest up to date with alot of new abilities.
http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/Welcome.html | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 3/9/2008 10:26:16 PM | ^
....i kinda doubt that they'll find what they are truly after.......furthermore i don't know if there has been too much hype on importance of the higgs boson.
...its still exciting to see what will turn up though........much like a little kid opening up a Christmas present ! | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 3/10/2008 4:41:35 AM | | I agree sum1reel ...it is over hyped ... of course it might make a nice hole in the middle of Europe ... | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 3/10/2008 8:47:59 AM | From the HEP (High Energy Physiscs) perspective, it's not over hyped.
It will be more significant if they DON'T find the Higgs. | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 3/10/2008 4:58:16 PM | it is interesting ...
my hunch will uncover more questions than answers ,and we will have to build one twice as big  | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 3/11/2008 8:08:13 PM | I'll certainly take that bet. The expectations are similar to what they were hoping when LIGO first went online and we're still waiting for results. Nice to know Gravity Probe B is keeping Einstein safe.
But as anybody in the physics/astronomy/astrophysics field would likely tell you, you usually see something new and unexpected whenever you open a new window on the universe. And even a negative result can be significant. | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 3/13/2008 3:17:23 PM | I am just a causal fan of physics, I hold no degrees, and I probably won't understand a good chunk of what you guys say, but its nice to know that there are people out there that have interest in it. I don't feel so alone.
I've read a SciAm special on the LHC it doesn't seem to give alot of detail but what exactly are they hoping to come across from the experiments? Would you think the Quantum Gravity theorist will be excited or is the energy levels too low to find something in that field, I hear Lee Smolin seemed pretty excited, but I don't know if that was in general or just a chance to debunk string theory giving LQG and that the spotlight for change.
P.S.
Sorry for being so naive, correct me where I am wrong, I don't mind! I want to learn and understand. | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 3/15/2008 4:27:07 AM | I am, like eveyrone else exstatic about the activation of the LHC. However, at the same time it does give reason for me to be extremely worried about the consequences thay may possibly follow. For example, Hawkings theory on black hole evaporation is based on no experimental value, as a result we cannot guarentee it's accuracy. IF any black hole's are produced and Hawkings theory is false, they could actually accumulate within our planet and devour parts of it if not all. It's a risk.
Also the presence of anti-matter, I mean seriously our knowledge on anti-matter is limited and the consequences of producing large amounts of it is a mystery.
At the same time it could lead to a drastic progression of our civilisation and future. | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 3/15/2008 1:20:20 PM | | Interesting posts...I now have enough to keep me busy researching for months. I had never heard of black hole evaporation Adam...the concerns you raise are fascinating tho. | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 3/16/2008 12:50:02 PM | Just to reassure a bit, although sorry if it's too technical... CERN will collide protons with protons at a centre of mass energy of 14Tev - each proton has an energy of 7TeV. 1eV is the energy gained by an electron when moving through a 1V potential difference so CERN will be 1000 billion times larger than this (which is what the T means). To an extent it's true that we don't know what we will see at these energies as we expect our current theories to start to break down and there is a lot of theoretical speculation as to what may happen. Theories of more than 4 space-time dimensions can allow the production of short lived black holes and like you say these are expected to decay through Hawking radiation almost instantly. The reason no physicist on CERN is concerned that such a black hole may end up eating up Europe or the Earth is because we observe proton-proton collisions in the upper atmosphere every day in the form of cosmic ray showers. Extensive research shows that these collisions can have energies more than 1 million times larger than those at CERN. As these collisions have presumably been occurring since the formation of the earth 4 billion years ago and we haven't seen a black hole formed in that time (or around any of the other planets in the solar system) it's safe to say that the same thing won't happen at CERN. It's also important to remember that at FermiLab (outside Chicago) they have been colliding protons and anti-protons at a centre of mass energy of 1TeV since the late 90s.
As for anti-matter, we produce that in laboratories every day and do have a very good understanding of it's behaviour (Dan Brown take note!). In face I work on the BaBar experiment at SLAC (in CA) where we constantly produce anti-matter 24 hours a day to understand in more detail why it is different from matter (ie. why is the universe made of matter and not anti-matter). Actually after the book Angels and Demons CERN published a website which tries to debunk some of the myths about anti-matter which can be found here:
http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/Spotlight/SpotlightAandD-en.html
By the way as I study HEP I'm definitely excited about the LHC! | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 3/17/2008 2:27:21 PM | cpdemon23,
You have no idea how jealous I am of you. I'd love to be on the forefront of basically breaking limitations of human understanding. You dive into the unknown and figure it all out. I am sure it's not as glamorous as I state it but surely it must be an interesting job to say the least. | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 3/18/2008 12:16:53 AM | Yeah it's definitely interesting, although day to day it's really just programming computers. By the way this site is pretty educational about the LHC although some of the physics might not be quite right and it's nothing like what a real data analysis would be but then it's aimed at school kids doing physics so I guess that figures...
http://www.boxnewmedia.co.uk/Edcoms_dev/html/main.html | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 7/6/2008 3:17:36 PM | | The Six Billion dollar experiment. Looking for the supposed God atom that changes energy to mater. The Higgs. What a waste of money. I can think of better things to do with that money. I thought they would have crashed some protons by now and found something. Like the meaning of life or something. Why don't we try to make cars run on water first! And heat our homes and cool them on water too. Now that's real science in the making. | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 7/6/2008 6:05:19 PM | Who cares? It looks cool as $#!+. It should be useful because if they don't discover any Higgs Bosons perhaps it might cause them to rethink its existence or devise a new way of trying to detect it. Of course, this machine is designed to do other things as well.
Suuposedly Thomas Edison said something to the effect of "I didn't fail 100 billion times...I simply found 100 billion ways not to get a strippers phone number."
I don't know whether or not he really said this, but the lesson here is clear. Even through failure, we can learn something with this machine. It will improve our understanding of the universe. | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 7/6/2008 6:33:08 PM |
I hold no degrees, and I probably won't understand a good chunk of what you guys say
Sorry for being so naive, correct me where I am wrong, I don't mind! I want to learn and understand.
I willfully digress from the topic here.
THIS, my friends is a scientist. It's not about the letters after the name, it's not about dogmatically adhering to a model of the universe. It's about being open to learning, to empirical data. If you are open to rational solutions, all questions are welcome! | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 7/6/2008 7:43:35 PM | | Yes, I cannot wait. If it works, amazing the new applications we will have. Artificial gravity on our space stations maybe? Force fields, and SOOOO much more :D | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 7/6/2008 7:43:55 PM | | they're tryin gto also prove gravitons exist ...to find parallel bubbles/universes according to Michio Kaku. CERN is 7x more powerful than the 1 in TExas ? former UK rocker BRian Cox is the CERN poster boy (youtube him) | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 7/6/2008 11:27:06 PM | Regardless of if they find the higgs-bosen, that bad boy is sure to turn up some new data about current theories, some new questions to answer, and perhaps a better understanding of how light works. The collider in Texas definitely turned up some new fields in science
I don't understand this craziness about black holes with that collider, there's already been an artificial black hole created in a laboratory and it was very short lived, a sheer stroke of luck that their instruments were even capable of catching what little data they gathered. I think the book Earth by David Brinn had perhaps the best explanation about micro black holes and why they are so short lived.
The Six Billion dollar experiment. Looking for the supposed God atom that changes energy to mater. The Higgs. What a waste of money. I can think of better things to do with that money. I thought they would have crashed some protons by now and found something. Like the meaning of life or something. Why don't we try to make cars run on water first! And heat our homes and cool them on water too. Now that's real science in the making.
Why do you even post this crap? It's beginning to serious tick me off seeing people make comments like this without first even glimpsing over what large scale projects like the LHC have brought us so far. Our race once went with your craptastic view, it didn't help us much at all, but lo an behold when science and mathematics made their way into widespread study our world got all the technology you now take for granted on a day to day basis. Everything you mention is already possible and commercially available, or perhaps you were to busy bashing the science that made that possible to even realize it. | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 7/7/2008 1:22:28 AM |
I am just a causal fan of physics, I hold no degrees, and I probably won't understand a good chunk of what you guys say, but its nice to know that there are people out there that have interest in it. I don't feel so alone.
That is one of the most honest and upfront comments I have read on these forums. Your attitude is most excellent. Twenty years from now, with an attitude like that, I predict you will be very successful in life and a great thinker. Kudos to you.
Let's just hope the CERN experiments fit the math models. Black holes could be created and the current risk estimates are in the range of 11% to 25%. That's pretty risky. | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 7/7/2008 8:04:50 AM | | Like most earth moving discoveries, they'll find something they weren't expecting or looking for. Will it be useful? Don't know. Probably just another tiny piece of the puzzle they could have found with any other collider but hadn't happened upon. | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 7/7/2008 12:38:54 PM |
Why do you even post this crap? It's beginning to serious tick me off seeing people make comments like this without first even glimpsing over what large scale projects like the LHC have brought us so far. Our race once went with your craptastic view, it didn't help us much at all, but lo an behold when science and mathematics made their way into widespread study our world got all the technology you now take for granted on a day to day basis. Everything you mention is already possible and commercially available, or perhaps you were to busy bashing the science that made that possible to even realize it.
Don't get so ticked off everyone has a right to an opinion. Take a deep breath and exhale.
Knowledge is great or is it? Look what we have that we didn't have just maybe 40 years ago.
Remote controls. People are just to lazy to get up off the couch.
Microwave ovens are there any bad factors of eating food cooked in them? Any studies on this?
Cell phones just like in the old TV show Star trek. Pretty cool
GPS's no more maps. GPS average cost $300! Yes I love my GPS To lazy I guess too!
Medical Sciences just cost an arm and a leg more to be well. Look how much health insurance is today! If you can afford health insurance.
Of course you can not forget computers. An extreme amount of information at the tips of your fingers. But is all this information ..... truth? Has anyone stole your identity?
Save a stamp and send an e-mail. One great benefit.
In all, yes some things made our lives easier. But with that, more expensive to live with all these luxuries. How much more does a Plasma TV cost apposed to a color TV made in the sixties?
When I was 17 gas was 67 cents a gallon. I filled up my tank then it was only $10.00 Now when I my fill up my work van it is $120.00 Need some more science on that as I have said.
Science is great when it improves are lives. Some science to me is wasteful. And I feel some sciences is out right not real truth! Just theories!
Einstein's knowledge gave us the hydrogen Bomb man I wish we can turn that clock back. Thanks to that great formula E =MC2
Billions and billions if not trillions of dollars went for space and looking at the stars. Listening to the galaxy. For what? How do we benefit from this? We have some moon rocks! Found out there are snow caps on Mars! Like mankind will ever sail across the heavens at the speed of light as in Star trek and find a new earth to live in just in time before we just kill ourselves.
IPODs wow what an idea no more tapes truly amazing! Like I need a thousand songs at my finger tips.
Why are we looking? It is in mans extinct to explore. Seek out some sort of meaning to why we are here in the first place.
I think you have to look into ones heart to find that. Its more then the physical world out there. We humans run on emotions, and emotions push buttons that science has made. Those of a real faith in helping others is the faith we all need. I am not saying Science is bad.
This slamming of proton's I hope you are right. That it helps mankind. And maybe we can find out why the honey bees are just disappearing. Einstein said after they are gone. We have only four years left! | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 7/7/2008 4:40:07 PM |
I've read a SciAm special on the LHC it doesn't seem to give alot of detail but what exactly are they hoping to come across from the experiments? Would you think the Quantum Gravity theorist will be excited or is the energy levels too low to find something in that field, I hear Lee Smolin seemed pretty excited, but I don't know if that was in general or just a chance to debunk string theory giving LQG and that the spotlight for change.
Black holes will be created in CERN if there are more dimensions to our universe(M theory or string theory). The energy levels produced by CERN aren't high enough to produce a black hole if the standard model is correct. If a black holes is produce at CERN energy levels, it doesn't represent much of a risk, due to the fact that collisions occur in our atmosphere at similar energy levels all the time due to cosmic rays. Someone comment that CERN will produce more questions than it answers is almost a given, that has been the case with most significant experiments in quantum mechanics. We really don't know what we don't know and were not absolutely certain about many things that we do know. | |
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| CERN (LHC) - Getting closer
Posted: 7/7/2008 5:32:02 PM |
Why do you even post this crap? It's beginning to serious tick me off seeing people make comments like this without first even glimpsing over what large scale projects like the LHC have brought us so far. Our race once went with your craptastic view, it didn't help us much at all, but lo an behold when science and mathematics made their way into widespread study our world got all the technology you now take for granted on a day to day basis. Everything you mention is already possible and commercially available, or perhaps you were to busy bashing the science that made that possible to even realize it.
Amen. There are many of places in the world that don't have the "science, mathematics and technology" we enjoy - I wouldn't want to live in any of them. Starvation, disease and ignorance is a terrible way to live life. | |
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Sounds like it will be fun for everyone.
