| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/14/2008 7:38:17 AM | | Just wondering if there's really a big difference in using cake and pastry flour for things like muffins, etc. I keep buying muffins from places like Tim Hortons (you Canadians know the place) and Second Cup and they always have a great texture that I can't duplicate with all purpose. | |
|
| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/14/2008 2:26:49 PM | | op In cooking you to have try different things.Just try different flours to get the texture you want.For me I used a all purpose flour for banana bread.It had called for cake flour but I could not find it in a supermarket I had gone to so I used a all purpose flour and it worked out it was the best I made.Good luck | |
|
| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/14/2008 3:08:46 PM | | ...Most of the differences in flour comes from the protein level of the wheat used to produce it...Bread flour requires high protein wheat...Cookie and cake flour is a bit lower in protein and is made from soft red wheat...Durum flour..is used in a lot of pasta because it has qualities that makes it work better...So...Yeah...using the right flour is fairly important... | |
|
| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/14/2008 3:21:39 PM | Instead of looking for flour just , substitute corn flour % . this will lower the rate of protein
plus don't over mix the batter, maybe 1 min mixing time | |
|
| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/14/2008 4:02:42 PM | | If I recall correctly, there are two tablespoons more flour in cake flour than all purpose, which would be for pastry. It has to do with the grind, which is not standardized. Ethergy is correct about not overmixing. The courser grind is preferable for cake, because it will bind to the exterior without moistening the center (of each grain), which supports it. There is about 12 hours "ripening" time for moisture distribution to occur. "Silk" flour is pretty consistent for good results. | |
|
| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/14/2008 7:16:04 PM | 1 cup all-purpose flour MINUS 2 tbsp. = 1 cup cake/pastry flour.
Different flour types from one of my cookbooks.
The type of flour used will ultimately affect the finished product. Flour contains protein and when it comes in contact with water and heat it produces gluten, which gives elasticity and strength to baked goods. Different types of flour contain different amounts of protein. Therefore using a different type of flour than what is called for in a recipe (without compensating for this change) will alter the outcome of the baked good. A cake flour is used to make a white cake where a delicate tender crumb is desired. Bread flour is used to make a chewy bread and all-purpose flour makes a delicious batch of chocolate chip cookies.
All-purpose flour has a 10-12% protein content and is made from a blend of hard and soft wheat flours. It can be bleached or unbleached which are interchangeable. However, Southern brands of bleached all-purpose flour have a lower protein content (8%) as they are made from a soft winter wheat. All-purpose flour can vary in its protein content not only by brand but also regionally. The same brand can have different protein contents depending on what area of the country in the United States you are buying it. Good for making cakes, cookies, breads, and pastries.
Cake flour has a 6-8% protein content and is made from soft wheat flour. It is chlorinated to further break down the strength of the gluten and is smooth and velvety in texture. Good for making cakes (especially white cakes and biscuits) and cookies where a tender and delicate texture is desired. To substitute cake flour for all-purpose flour use 1 cup plus 2 tablespoons cake flour for every cup of all-purpose flour. Make your own - one cup sifted cake flour can be substituted with 3/4 cup (84 grams) sifted bleached all-purpose flour plus 2 tablespoons (15 grams) cornstarch.
Pastry flour is similar to cake flour, although it has not been chlorinated, with an 8-10% protein content and is made from soft wheat flour. It is soft and ivory in color. Can find it in health food stores or through mail order catalogs. To make two cups of pastry flour, combine 1 1/3 cups (185 grams) all-purpose flour with 2/3 cup (90 grams) cake flour. Good for making pastry, pies and cookies.
Self-Rising flour has 8-9% protein and contains flour plus baking powder and salt. I do not use this type of flour because I prefer to add my own baking powder and salt. Also, if the flour is stored too long the baking powder will lose some of its strength and your baked goods will not rise properly. If you want to make your own add 1 ½ teaspoons (7.5 grams) baking powder and ½ teaspoon (3.5 grams) salt per cup (140 grams) of all-purpose flour.
Bread flour has a 12-14% protein content and is made from hard wheat flour. The high gluten content causes the bread to rise and gives it shape and structure. Comes in white, whole wheat, organic, bleached and unbleached. Good for making breads and some pastries.
Store your flour in a cool dry well-ventilated place for up to six months. To prevent insects you can store flour in the refrigerator or freezer making sure the flour is defrosted before using.
Flour is sometimes labeled pre-sifted. This means that the flour was sifted before packaging but it compacts during shipping and handling and therefore is no longer sifted by the time you get it home. So if your recipe calls for sifted flour make sure you sift it again. (If your recipe calls for 1 cup sifted flour this means you sift the flour before measuring. However, if the recipe calls for 1 cup flour, sifted this means you sift the flour after measuring.) Sifting flour removes lumps and aerates it so that when liquid is added the dry ingredients will be fully moistened.
Proper measuring of your flour is important, as too much flour will result in a tough and/or heavy baked good. When measuring flour spoon your flour into a measuring cup and then level off the cup with a knife. Do not pack it down. As stated above, flour gets compacted in the bag during shipping, so scooping your flour right out of the bag using your measuring cup will result in too much flour.
Flour, when packaged, has about a 14% moisture content. When stored, however, its moisture content will vary. In general, the longer flour is stored the more moisture it loses. This is why on a dry day using old flour your pastry will require more water than on a wet day using new flour. | |
|
| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/14/2008 7:27:14 PM | Ok, I know absolutely nothing about flour and what the difference is except that the cake flour does seem lighter. I bake ALOT, and I'll be honest and say there have been many, many times where I've used normal flour in the place of pastry flour, simply because I didn't have any in my pantry. I've had no problem with my recipes, and they've all turned out great.
That being said, there is only one recipe I will not use normal flour for. I have a fantastic recipe for a german mocha cake which is very delicate and I'd be worried about substituting the flour, since its very time consuming to make..I will try it one day when I have some time on my hands, just to experiment. | |
|
| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/15/2008 4:05:01 AM | ...I was pondering this question a bit more...and think there might be more to it than the type of flour involved...Large bakeries will add things that you never have used in a private kitchen...things like Guar gum....Carragheenan....you know..all those ingredients with the big names that nobody can pronounce let alone spell. A lot of these products are used specifically to improve texture to commercial baked products and extend shelf life...so...maybe you never will be able to match Timmy's or Second Cup's baked goods...but I'm sure whatever you make will please whomever you're making it for...homemade just has more "soul" in it..  | |
|
| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/15/2008 4:25:55 AM | Okay, okay, I have been reading this thread since yesterday and I guess I can't help myself, I am gonna jump in.
Pastry/Cake flour will give your products a finer texture. This may be what you are looking for, I don't know, but I have eaten muffins at Tim Hortons and the texture wasn't fine, it was what I might describe as a combination of courser, denser, mealier (if that is a word). The type of muffin you are making, or talking about has a lot to do with it and I am not sure anyone can help here without knowing which muffin you ar trying to duplicate. If it is a bran, or carrot muffin, it will definitely be the carrots, seeds, nuts that are giving it a mealier texture, even if they are small enough that you can't identify them, they are in there.
Maybe they make a sponge with their baking powder and buttermilk first, like one would with yeast and sugar when making bread. Maybe it is the dough/batter conditioners, like extra gluten added. I think we need more info. | |
|
| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/15/2008 9:23:04 PM | Great message, CC.
Never buy into the 2 T less thing -- its how to do in a pinch but if you want truly great baked goods it is a joke.
Generally more protein the tougher. The less protein the more tender -- make a jellyroll with regular flour, bread flour, and cake flour. I have and the cake flour will always be the best no matter how many times you sift it.
It's a softer wheat with less protein. Protein builds structure.
You can cheat a little by adding rice flour, like tempura does, and also with corn starch. But still by in large buy the right flour for the right item. For whatever its worth to others, I only buy non gmo non brominated non bleached bread flour for almost everything in the kitchen. Then I buy cake flour as needed -- cakes and jellyrolls.
For some reason making a jellyroll seems to be a lost art. I don't know why because they're not as difficult as a pie, look fantastic, and open to a gazillion different flavored fillings.
I don't know one place I could even buy a jellyroll. But these are perfect answers to folks with extra fruit trees or an abundance of any seasonal fruit. Just cook it down, puree it, and use it in a jellyroll.
There is really only two tricks -- powder sugar your clean dish towel fairly heavily so it won't stick and roll it while still warm/hot.
Nothing looks better next to an afternoon cup of tea than an inch slice of jellyroll. | |
|
| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/15/2008 10:01:39 PM | Good post Random Entry,
I agree on what you said. I too like to make jelly rolls. I think they went out with the 1963 version of Betty Crocker's cookbook. The only one you MIGHT see these days is a Yule Log at Christmas and those are only being made my people older than me. LOL I used to call a baking sheet a jelly roll pan and I had to stop, no one knew what the heck I was talking about and just thought I was nuts. | |
|
| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/16/2008 1:37:58 AM | Most baking sheets are jelly roll pans because they have edge lips all the way around.... technically a baking sheet has at least one edge without a lip. But the terminology is used almost interchangeably these days. I dunno if it is laziness or people just don't care about jellyrolls anymore.
You're right about yule logs but I prefer them without frosting atop them. | |
|
| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/16/2008 7:31:37 AM | | ...I just wanted to tell Random something...I've had discussions about GMO's on other threads...and I won't get into them here...but...he said he only buys Non-GMO flour...and that's correct...because there isn't any GMO flour being produced yet...No one has released a genetically modified wheat seed yet. So..if the selling point is that it's non-GMO..and they're charging you extra for it...somebody's givin' you a screwin'. | |
|
| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/17/2008 2:28:54 PM | Really? Maybe they are just ahead of the trends.
http://www.wheatmontana.com/store/index.php
Literally thousands of bakers have told us that they wouldn’t use anything else. This flour, ground from our Prairie Gold® wheat, will delight you, your family and your customers in every way. It’s so versatile it can be substituted for white flour in some recipes, giving your baked goods unique flavor, plus all of the benefits of whole wheat. 100% whole-wheat flour. Chemical Free. GMO Free.
#50 for $24.24
I've visited their fields and deli store in Montana (my first taste of Huckleberry Soda Pop, too)
Ever since I discovered their flour everything I bake comes out even better than before. Many local grocers are carrying their brand name now, as well.
Do you really think under fifty cents a pound for flour whose quality is far above Gold Medal (who you would think I would be for -- they're sign atop their building right across from the street overlooks my city) is considered getting screwed?
Count it however you like it but if I make two batches of bread or rolls or even pizza crust and put it in front of you and others I am positive the majority would pick their product.
GMO or whatever... they don't claim to be organic but I think they are pretty close. All I know for positive is the price isn't much more for a superior quality product. Their barley and cereal grain mixes I use for 8-12 grain breads are much better, too. They have spelt available, too, and some of the more unusual harder-to-find grains.
After baking with their flour Gold Medal seems like they ground up the cardboard box and baked with it -- it truly is that big of a difference.
Plus what GM never advertises until you read the ingredients on the side of your bag of "White Flour" -- it has a lot of barley in it. It's not even WHEAT flour which is why its not called White Wheat Flour. | |
|
| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/17/2008 3:53:38 PM | While it *is* true that GMO wheat was dropped as a concept by Monsanto in 2004 due to widespread consumer pressure, it is also clear that they would like to resume, and are ready at the drop of a pin to resume. Therefore, I wouldn't blame anyone: consumer or producer who continued to iterate that they will not buy/sell/produce such wheat. And, I personally would thank them for doing so.
| |
|
| Cake and Pastry flour
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:33:49 PM | | ...Random..I just wanted you to know...that if they're using the fact that their flour does not contain a GMO...that it's a pretty lame selling point....All flour..(derived from wheat of course) is non GMO. That's it...I don't have any comment on the quality...the availability...or the printing on the bag. They're using a non issue...to make it seem like they're doing you a favor...when they aren't. Like I said...I could care less if you enjoy an organic, supposedly chemically free product....It's a free country to each their own. | |
|
Home
login 
