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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/14/2008 6:42:54 PM | and those wagging their finger because Mr.Obama is closely associated with him.
March 14, 2008 On My Faith and My Church Barack Obama
The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He's drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.
Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.
Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context.
As I have written about in my books, I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.
Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.
The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.
Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country.
With Rev. Wright's retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright's statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/on_my_faith_and_my_church.html
Because I know there will be some here itching to bring up and bring it against him. | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/14/2008 6:53:08 PM | It's probably not a bad thing that it's out there now. By the time the general election rolls around it'll be old news. At least with people who keep up with the news.
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/14/2008 7:29:24 PM | | Great post, violet, thanks for posting it. I sincerely hope all of those that are so intimidated by something different and afraid that Obama will destroy us from the inside read and heed with an open mind. | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/14/2008 7:34:07 PM | Thank you, Sim
But you know how different many can view it or spin it. Someone will somehow find a way to say he's not telling the truth or it's just a show.
I have never known or believe Mr.Obama to be one to lie just to save face. I believe him to be a genuine and concerned person wishing to help make America what it was, what it can be again. | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/14/2008 11:07:05 PM | It's good to see him respond to these accusations , and to read his words.
For those that want to find fault with him, no amount of words will ever suffice to convince them. They've already made up their minds.  | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/14/2008 11:19:43 PM |
They've already made up their minds. And perhaps trying to squelch others....
Non-English/Nonsense post 2/3 have voted to delete this thread
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/14/2008 11:22:48 PM |
2/4 have voted to delete this thread, at least 7 delete votes out of 10 are needed to auto delete this thread.
Well, the vote seems to have changed.  | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 12:11:45 AM | I just wish we could vote for a candidate based on what they can do for the nation ... to pull us up by the bootstraps and get us out of the mess we're now in. I think it's unfortunate that we have to be concerned about their religious "beliefs" or religious "connections".
Up until "Dubya" declared war on the Islams/Muslims, the only real concern I had was our everlasting support of Israel. I've never felt that connection was good ... it killed Bobby Kennedy in 1968.
Then in 1973 came Roe V. Wade ... and we have to be concerned about how a potential candidate feels about that. We all need to be concerned about a president eventually appointing Supreme Court Justices that might reverse that. OMG I hope I do not live to see that.
Now I see we're ready to condemn a potential candidate because the "preacher" at the church he traditionally attends temporarily loses his sanity and makes some remarks that understandably would not be good if he were the sole spiritual adviser to that candidate. (Does one really need such a person?)
What do we care what that "preacher" says? Did Obama stand by him as he spoke those words and nod in approval? People need to get a damn grip here.
It's not like Obama would ever approve of what that man says just because the man is the "preacher" at the church Obama has been attending for the past 20 years.  | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 1:02:51 AM | People who do not like Obama, namely Hillary supporters, McCain supporters and right wing republicans will pounce on this and try to destroy him with it.
People who like Obama will think this is not a big deal and move on.
Sadly our tabloid news mentality that all of the news organizations have these days will not let go of this until the next juicy story comes along. Hell even a tornado going through the CNN building didn't stop them from talking about this. How pathetic is that!
Unfortunately with the politics of old of Hillary and McCain and the republicans, this will continue and it will get worse. What they are trying to do is tie a chain around his neck one link at a time and if he gets to the general election it will be put all together and have a cement block put on it.
Sadly the only thing Hillary will be doing to stop this even after she loses is to give them more metal for more chains and stir the concrete for that block. We are starting to see Hillary's true colors. She only cares about Hillary and the power she can get. She doesn't care about the people, she doesn't care about the country, she cares about the power. Sad! She is only helping the republicans win.
I know if she hoodwinks her way into the nomination I am sitting this one out. McCain and Hillary are disgusting and both are bad for our country. Obama is not much better but at least he is the best out of the pile of crap we call presidential candidates. | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 1:45:11 AM | UniqueManinSoCal wrote (message 9) ...
Sadly the only thing Hillary will be doing to stop this even after she loses is to give them more metal for more chains and stir the concrete for that block. We are starting to see Hillary's true colors. She only cares about Hillary and the power she can get. She doesn't care about the people, she doesn't care about the country, she cares about the power. Sad! She is only helping the republicans win.
I know if she hoodwinks her way into the nomination I am sitting this one out. McCain and Hillary are disgusting and both are bad for our country. Obama is not much better but at least he is the best out of the pile of crap we call presidential candidates. Huh?? What the .... ?
What does beating up on the other candidates have to do with the topic of this thread? I thought it was about Mr. Wright ... and those wagging their finger because Mr.Obama is closely associated with him.
Oh dear ... it's only message #9 and it's already derailing?  | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 2:40:35 AM | Quote[ For those that want to find fault with him, no amount of words will ever suffice to convince them. They've already made up their minds. ] True,but just because someone has made up their mind does not mean they did not aproach the issue with an open mind. It is also true that those who have already made up their mind to support him will not be convinced otherwise. To some of us ,20 yrs of actions,and contributions ,as well as recent appointments,speak louder than a few weeks of words. It just depends on which you choose to believe. | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 3:29:41 AM | It is also true that those who have already made up their mind to support him will not be convinced otherwise. Exactly! Seems there is a lot of anticipation about what the other side is likely to say in this thread.
Truth is though. Rev Wright is a very misguided and profoundly troubling character, to have had such an intimate, spiritual influence over young Obama, for most of his adult life. We are supposed to be trying to move beyond such divisive, biased mindsets of a dark past.
If Obama vehemently disagrees so strongly, (and I assume he does), why didn't he and his wife simply walk away and join another church, where ethnic hatred was not such a primary theme. Seems a far more appropriate thing to do.
-Suth'nBoy 
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 5:38:40 AM | | Well, if you think about it Suthn Boy, they lived in the community in which they served for a long time. The south side of Chicago probably does not have a lot of churches that do not have this line of thinking. It's a very impoverished community and heavily black. I am willing to bet that most of his other choices for a church would have the same message being delivered if not moreso. With that said, Obama said these were not the kind of sermons he heard on a consistent basis, and that he disagrees with them. I believe him. He has as some people agree, people issues, not black and white issues. If this were Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson we were talking about, I don't think I'd believe them. But Obama has not showed one time any hint of a hidden "black agenda". | |
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mj999
| Joined: 10/28/2007 Msg: 14 | |
| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 6:43:22 AM | I'm with you VioletSkye, I also don't think Obama would lie and believe his message of hope & change to be sincere.
But after having seen Mr. Wright's tape, there is little doubt that this man would not " bury white people if he could". He was so full of anger, rage and sounded like a fanatic. Frankly, I am surprised this man was Obama's spiritual mentor for so long. | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 6:49:49 AM |
He was so full of anger, rage and sounded like a fanatic. Frankly, I am surprised this man was Obama's spiritual mentor for so long.
This somehow assumes that Obama was listening to the man speak in this manner, and that seems not to be the case. If he wasn't speaking like that then, it's misleading to present this type of speech as being part of daily life at this church, and thus being something Obama was directly exposed to. | |
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mj999
| Joined: 10/28/2007 Msg: 16 | |
| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 7:09:20 AM | MG: My 1st statement said that I believed Obama was not lying, to do so would have been suicide for him as the media will surely be looking further into Obama's comments made last night.
My second statement about the pastor is correct, anyone who saw that tape would come to the same conclusion, but it does not mean Obama was present during his incendiary speeches. | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 7:18:01 AM | I wasn't really directing it at you, and I'm sorry if that's the way you (or anyone else) read it.
I meant it more as an overall reflection on how people are reading this controversy. I have a very hard time imagining Obama sitting there listening to that sort of diatribe too. | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 8:09:32 AM | We are supposed to be trying to move beyond such divisive, biased mindsets of a dark past. This is a good point. Future shock: Think about running the White house with this in the back of the minds of fellow congressmen/women. You can't make this news go away over night and from responses I have heard on the radio - too big to ignore. Sorry to say, Obama has to keep proving his innocence by his actions (not just talk) from now on - including disassociation with Pastor Wright (which all of a sudden, he's trying to do now). *Would be a good measure of his character of what he does from this point forward | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 8:19:19 AM | ........for Obama to denounce his ex-pastor's remarks, 7.5 yrs after 9/11 and 20 yrs after he has been an active and contributing member of this "church".....seems a bit SELF-SERVING (given all that he might stand to lose if he hadn't presently denounced it).
This somehow assumes that Obama was listening to the man speak in this manner, and that seems not to be the case. If he wasn't speaking like that then, it's misleading to present this type of speech as being part of daily life at this church, and thus being something Obama was directly exposed to.
first of all.....we (the public) cannot know as to how he (obama) was listening and how he was perceiving what was being preached by wright!
.....for Obama to say that he wasn't fully cognizant of what his pastor was preaching (while he wasn't there) seems feeble....at best!..............because it assumes that Obama was only present for the speeches (wright made) that weren't politically inclined, and that Obama was sort 'kept in the dark' about these political sermons.....even by his own wife!!
.......Obama's 'apologists' here will want to dust this matter off (much in the manner shown by the above quotation from MG's previous post)..................yet many of whom would hardly have the same (aw shucks, it was nothing!) attitude had this come out of the camp of one of his 'white' opponents!
...the voting public will have be the ones to decide how much weight this matter has!!!.....what is ironic here is that if this turns out to be the 'torpedo' that sinks Obama's campaign....it will be the one projectile that didn't come from Hillary's camp, but rather from his own remissness!!!! | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 8:22:58 AM |
Well, if you think about it Suthn Boy, they lived in the community in which they served for a long time. The south side of Chicago probably does not have a lot of churches that do not have this line of thinking. It's a very impoverished community and heavily black. I am willing to bet that most of his other choices for a church would have the same message being delivered if not moreso. So, you're an authority about churches on the southside of Chicago? and you live in Muskegon, Michigan? I find your generalization insulting to people of southside Chicago. | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 9:06:51 AM | Twenty years is a considerable chunk of the man's life. If you can sit in ignorance that length of time as to what the church you were attending was promoting, how in the world can you be in tune with what this country needs? How can we trust your foreign policy if you can be deceived by one so close to you for that length of time? In short, his denouncement of Mr. Wright has only led me to seriously question his powers of discernment and judgment. | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 9:14:41 AM |
So, you're an authority about churches on the southside of Chicago? and you live in Muskegon, Michigan? I find your generalization insulting to people of southside Chicago.
Oh I am so sorry your delicate Milwaukee WI sensibilites have been offended, but I bet you'd have a hard time proving me wrong. It is a fact that the south side is an impoverished and mostly black community. I'm guessing they have mainly black churches. It's not rocket science. If you can prove otherwise, I'll gladly admit I was wrong. | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 10:06:52 AM | I don't know much about what's happening, so can't speak directly to that, but...
Everyone here seems to be assuming that Mr. Wright has been talking like this for the past 20 years. How do we know that it hasn't only been the past year or two that he's started on this 'rant' of sorts? If the priest at my church started acting like this a few years before retirement, I'm not sure that I would want to move churches. I suspect Obama has the same idea since he probably has a lot of connections with the community at large. A church is more than just it's religion or it's pastor/priest. A large part of what goes on is based in the community that belongs to it. I have a number of friends that I would probably never know if I hadn't met them through my activities with my church.
Granted, I also think that if my priest did start doing that, the Archdiocese would step in pretty fast and remove him. Around here at least, priests serve three year terms, though they may stay in one place for more than one term. | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 1:38:46 PM | Tridigee, since you don't know much about what's happening, perhaps you would like to listen so that you and whomever else who doesn't know will know what's happening. It's always wise to have a clue when one may be voting the next president into office. For the sake of the United States of America, please make sure you are well informed.
The latest rather troubling "problem" encountered with Barack Obama has to do with the pastor of his church, where Barack made a decision to worship for the last twenty years. The man, Rev. Wright, you see preaching on this Utube clip has been Barack's spiritual advisor for the last twenty years. I think after hearing Rev. Wright's message, you may understand why some might take issue with it. I think it also becomes clear why one might question Barack's judgment as to whom he takes spiritual guidance from and whom he allows himself to be influenced by. And his merely once again refuting something, doesn't change the fact that he didn't refute it for the last twenty years. He accepted the message, worshiped at the church, took guidance from Rev. Wright, and was taught under this warped, racist point of view. I think this definitely warrants further thought by Americans, no matter how anyone tries to spin it to the contrary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk3LXvVlsI4 | |
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| Mr.Wright Posted: 3/15/2008 2:03:23 PM | I agree I need to know what and who I'm voting for, but I haven't worried that much about it yet since we still don't know who's going to be running for president.
I watched the youtube clip you had a link to - yikes, that guy is a a little off the wall. I can see why people are concerned about Obama after hearing about it, and apparently this does go back further than the past few years. I was mostly playing devil's advocate earlier - people seemed very quick to jump on Obama because he is associated with this man, so I was trying to present reasons that it shouldn't be a concern, but I'm not completely sure all of them are still valid.
Still, people seem to be applying an all or none mentality to this - since he has had this man as his mentor for 20 years, therefore he believes exactly what he believes. I don't think that's it's fair to do that. I may not agree with everything my Church says, but I still belong to it. My beliefs come some from what I'm taught (mostly stuff about what happened 2000+ years ago) and some from what I personally think. Some issues I think the Church may or may not be wrong on, but I don't mess with it - I still think they are right on others.
We had a similar thing a while ago - when Kennedy (I think at least) was running, the big concern was that since he was Catholic, how will that affect what he does? I think the same idea applies here, how does being associated with someone mean that Obama is going to have the exact same ideas? Challenge him on the issues, see what he thinks. It shouldn't matter what a president believes, he (or she) is responsible for doing what it best for the country. Granted, different people will have different opinions on that, and I'm not so naive to think that beliefs won't have an effect on their decisions, but that's the way it should be, and that's why we have the system that we have - so one person can't completely force what they think on the country. Although I'm not sure that's worked quite the way it was supposed to. | |
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