| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/18/2008 12:08:55 AM | According to Rausher and Targ in their 2001 article in the Journal of Scientific Exploration entitled: "The Speed of Thought: Investigation of a Complex Space-Time Metric to Describe Psychic Phenomena", the speed of thought is transcendent of ANY FINITE VELOCITY.
Further, since precognition occurs , as concluded in the article, "...with the event experienced prior to its apparent cause, the speed of thought appears to be instantaneous ..."
To expand upon this and apply it to rational thought imagery, when a thought occurs to you, if it is instantaneous, then isn't it also valid to say the speed of thought is infinite? And if this is the case, then once we are able to conceptualize the accuracy of the universe ("down the rabbit hole" from WHAT THE BLEEP DO WE KNOW!?), will it also be possible, because of our knowledge, to mentally travel to distant galaxies, stars, and planets instantanously and know of other existences? | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/18/2008 12:18:15 AM | | What The Bleep Do We Know had a pretty effective depiction of the double slit experiment demonstrating the dual nature (particle & wave) of small things. But that's actually kind of unfortunate because that has really circulated well and introduced people to the film itself which is riddled with psuedoscience. | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/18/2008 12:59:52 AM | *sigh* what the bleep do we know does one of the cardinal sins of the new age movement.
"Quantum physics" has a specific set of meanings. Freaking pseudoscientists like to act that it basically means "Magic" or "Whatever the hell we want it to mean."
Also, the ten percent of your brain myth. Jesus christ that needs to die. | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/18/2008 8:19:10 AM |
Also, the ten percent of your brain myth. Jesus christ that needs to die.
also the great wall of china as seen from the moon--another accepted myth. it can't even be seen from low earth orbit. | |
|
| |
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/18/2008 11:11:14 AM | | The speed of anything that has speed is finite. You can't have such a thing as infinite speed. So once you say thought has speed you have said the speed of thought is finite. If your suggestion is that thought is infinite in some way, how would you know, or worse, how could you but not know? | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/18/2008 6:42:55 PM | Sadly, yes. After all, even if you could describe "thought" as a wave-form phenomenon (which would have to have a particle in keeping with equivalence), then it would be limited by the speed of light.
In essence, the universe limits the transmission of all information about itself to that ultimate limit. Hence, gravity waves. If the sun were to suddenly disappear, Earth would continue to orbit in it's portion of the sun's spacetime "dimple" until the wave of its disappearance reached us eight minutes later. Jupiter would feel it 45 minutes later. Pluto, four hours etc.
Of course, someone will bring up quantum physics but I don't think that's applicable here. | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/18/2008 6:49:47 PM | Finite?
Around here, it tends to grinds to a complete halt, and sadly even gets thrown into reverse. I can feel my intellect being drained just by being logged in sometimes! | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/18/2008 8:48:42 PM |
Around here, it tends to grinds to a complete halt, and sadly even gets thrown into reverse. I can feel my intellect being drained just by being logged in sometimes!
Da-dum-tisk!
(Thats a drum drum symbal noise) | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/18/2008 9:28:09 PM | Let me correct my use of the word "infinite" since some have taken exception to it and replace it with "instantaneaus." Sorry for the confusion.
For those of you who feel that nothing exceeds the speed of light, there is a body of evidence showing there are speeds that exceed the speed of light. I already wrote on it over two years ago when I was on POF before, in response to another thread about speed. Something to do with photons or some other media in tunnels, and about fifteen or twenty other experiments that also indicated greater speeds.
My purpose in this thread is to show that thoughts are immediate and not finite and as such could be a means of discovering the universe without the necessity of physical travel. I'm interested in comments that either debunk my theory or substantiate it. Or at least suggest that there is a possibility that my theory may have merit, given the information I provided. | |
|
| |
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/18/2008 10:52:17 PM | Thought is instantaneous?
No. Otherwise we'd be able to do simple computations like counting instantly. | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/19/2008 12:23:49 AM | charlesedm:
No. Otherwise we'd be able to do simple computations like counting instantly
The thought is there but can only be exercised through sensory apparatus. Furthermore, when a thought comes randomly into your head, how long did that take?
Think of dreaming, although I don't really want to integrate too many variables into this thread, the thoughts are not time dependent. They happen instantly.
Now, suppose we learn a lot about the universe and our minds are able to conceptualize from the known the possibility of the unknown. Will our thoughts be able to take us to the unknown based upon these conceptualizations?
The Indian in "What the Bleep do we Know!?" was only able to see the three Columbus ships after his mind had hints of conceptualization. At first all he saw was the swirling water around hulls of the ships. It was not until parts of concept were absorbed by his mind that he was able to realize the truth of the ships.
While some here say this is pseudo science, is it really? Or is it that we are so glued to our present scientific understanding that we cannot conceive of possibilites outside of it? Isn't this the same thinking that prevented science from realizing the earth was round when everyone thought it was flat?
I have a couple degrees in psychology. One of the concepts early on was mind set. When our thinking is framed with respect to certain images and thoughts, newer ones that fit the parameters of the existing ones are easily assimulated even if they are in some respects dissimilar.
What happened to the Indian was a development of mental inclination to perceive a certain way. And by continued staring and realizing something was happening beyond his understanding, those images cataloged in his mind finally filled in the puzzle and the ships became apparent whereas they did not before. | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/19/2008 12:40:22 AM |
The thought is there but can only be exercised through sensory apparatus.
Not really, I want you to discreetly visualize and conceptualize 1-10 million, remember, each number. Close your eyes and visualize,
Did you count every number? Was it instantaneous?
Furthermore, when a thought comes randomly into your head, how long did that take?
Thats like trying to measure a clock with itself, all that means is that the fastest thing YOU can cognitively preceive is your own cognition.
I have a couple degrees in psychology. One of the concepts early on was mind set. When our thinking is framed with respect to certain images and thoughts, newer ones that fit the parameters of the existing ones are easily assimulated even if they are in some respects dissimilar.
A couple of "Degrees" in psychology? Are you sure?
What happened to the Indian was a development of mental inclination to perceive a certain way. And by continued staring and realizing something was happening beyond his understanding, those images cataloged in his mind finally filled in the puzzle and the ships became apparent whereas they did not before.
Thats actually an argument for thought NOT being instantaneous when you think about it, if it was, it would have happened instantly (I don't think it happened at all though to be honest) | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/19/2008 1:22:47 AM | charlesedm:
We're on different wave links. I'm not talking about memory or forced thinking. Thought comes into your head. Just comes. There's no speed.
The thought of the ships after everything came together in the Indian's mind was just an example in conceptualization and not in terms of speed initially. They were different paragraphs with different topic designations.
Anyway, from your comments, you are having a hard time understanding this. Best to read the article I alluded to at the top of the thread and make up your mind from that, if that is your intention other than debate.
A couple of "Degrees" in psychology? Are you sure?
There's no necessity to make it personal. Right? | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/19/2008 4:40:16 AM | We're on different wave links. I'm not talking about memory or forced thinking. Thought comes into your head. Just comes. There's no speed.
How could you possibly measure that? How do you know that it is instantaneous, if a thought took ten seconds to formulate. It would still seem like it was isntantaneous to the person doing the thought.
You can't perceive things that happen faster than you think.
The thought of the ships after everything came together in the Indian's mind was just an example in conceptualization and not in terms of speed initially. They were different paragraphs with different topic designations.
But equally applicable, conceptualization is a cognitive process, if cognition is instantaneous then it would have happend immediately. It's also a bunch of crap :P but then again so is pretty much everything in what the bleep do we know.
Anyway, from your comments, you are having a hard time understanding this. Best to read the article I alluded to at the top of the thread and make up your mind from that, if that is your intention other than debate.
No I understand, I just think it's hogwash. I also can't find the journal in any list of peer viewed journals online. Oh wait, I found it, it's an internet journal that has articles on UFO, veeeeeery scholarly.
There's no necessity to make it personal. Right?
When you use yourself as an authority you open youself up to be questioned. You're trying to pass that journal off as something it isn't. | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/19/2008 4:54:54 AM | | where are the women on this thread? It is so hard to find a woman who thinks about the INFINITY of SPEED these days....at any rate, if you can MEASURE speed it can NOT be INFINITE. Anything you can measure (calculate, count) is NOT infinite otherwise you would not be able to measure it. Therefore the fact that LIGHT or THOUGHT would have a measurable display of speed cancels out infinity. Now, I did hear that old negro league ballplayer SATCHEL PAIGE was FAST. It was said he could turn off the lite and be in bed before the room got DARK! No one ever measured or TIMED him to see how fast he traveled. And maybe that is the thing, THOUGHT (aka LIGHT) is, well, just is.... | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/19/2008 5:45:54 AM | I looked but I can't find where I heard about the concept of thought traveling faster than light... I googled the speed of thought and found a book called "Traveling at the Speed of Thought: Einstein and the Quest for Gravitational Waves" by Daniel Kenifick.
If they exist how fast do you figure gravity waves go? Or even magnetic waves? | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/19/2008 7:50:16 AM | What you are talking about is the speed of "information" in the universe and, according to relativity, that is confined to the speed of light as defined by the character "c". Information travels outward in waves that propogate through the universe at the speed of light. In order to exceed that limit, you would have to be outside the universe in an alternate universe where c is the minimum. However, since you do not come from that universe, you would immediately cease to exist.
Bummer!
In the strictest sense of physical processes in our universe, nothing can exceed c. Yes, experiments have slowed light's speed but superluminal speed has only been observed as a perspective effect of cosmological phenomenon. Specifically, looking down the length of a quasar's central jet. But it only appears superluminal.
Now is it possible to glean information from across the universe? Given quantum entanglement, I would guess it's theoretically possible. The problem would be a) the instrumentation and b) being able to interpret the data. LIGO is one attempt to do just that. | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/19/2008 8:06:17 AM | I think the other confusion point is what effect you are trying to observe. Are you trying to read ET's thoughts to learn what kind of life forms live on Tau Ceti 5?
In answer to your original question, I'm afraid I'm going to have to vote no. Sorry, but I just don't think it's possible.
However, does that mean that past, present and future are static. What's done is done, what you're doing now is all that is and what will happen tomorrow doesn't exist? Well, that's I'm not so sure about. After all, a consequence of Relativity as it relates to time is that time cannot be described as a single moment we can call "now" but as a virtual "landscape" in which now is stretched out according to your frame of reference. "Now" for a space traveller in his spaceship might take 10 minutes for his brother on Earth.
Sure, it sounds contradictory. But that's the nature of the universe we live in. | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/19/2008 8:13:34 AM | | Thought is not infinite in speed. If it were I wouldn't have to edit my posts. What is infinite is speed (based on quantum models) is information, being that it is instantly available anywhere (well at least to fundamental particles it is). | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/19/2008 9:19:13 AM | See my previous post. If you are talking information about the current state of anything, the answer to that would be no. The state of a particular particle will be dictated by how you are observing it and that is an effect of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
As for more large-scale systems, then the maximum speed limit is c. | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/19/2008 9:56:09 AM | exactly. photons are now being teleported at distances instantly. this gives new meaning to special relativity, in fact, it does defy it. If scientist can teleport a photon from one prism to the next, they have in essence broken the speed of light.
special relativity says that all observers are subject to the relative laws but photon teleportation blows this right out. if we were able to do this on a larger scale, this is really going to mess with relativity because the observer will be subject to a different set of rules. breaking the speed of light forces us to consider the possibility of quantum tunneling, entanglement and other interesting things such as worm holes.
but taking photons to this speed of travel is fascinating because once the speed of light is broken, the observer, in essence, will see the destination before the trip has even begun.
as far as thoughts go, it would be wrong to assume that thought speed even has a speed. we do not know what actual thoughts are made up of. when you take away strand energy, and all energy in the brain, do you even have a thought? some think that we do.
the fact that our horizon of thought can speculate a galaxy trillions of light years away, makes its presence in our thoughts instant. therefore, our thought mind IS in effect there and present. | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/19/2008 10:14:42 AM | | I think there's a bit of disconnect here as to how speed and the occurrence of an event are related. Yes, a thought may "come to mind" instantaneously, but there were processes leading up to that, and the thought was only complete and recognizable when those underlying processes finished and "spit out" their results. It's kind of like turning on a light. The light will hit your eyes instantaneously, but it took a small amount of time for the light, traveling at about 186,000 miles per second to get there. | |
|
| Is the speed of thought finite?
Posted: 3/19/2008 10:18:29 AM | | That something happens at more than one place at the same time doesn't mean it started in one place and then went to the other. | |
|
Home
login 
