| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/20/2008 6:43:55 PM | Ok, so the idea that we are all related through the evolution of our DNA. Our parents parents parents etc... have all passed on dna to me, and who knows how many other people. A single piece of DNA was observed in a room 20 feet away from the host, who was made to feel strong emotional stimulation, and the report showed that the DNA reacted exactly as his body had.
If we all have this DNA in our bodies, we are all somehow connected, and there is a theory that we all share the memories of our predecessors, but they are locked away in our subconcious.
Any thoughts? | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/20/2008 7:54:07 PM | I've given this some thought, not only with humans, but with animals also.
(I know that sentence is going to look bad under my profile.. )
I tend to agree with you
they are locked away in our subconcious. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/20/2008 8:09:41 PM | | Sounds spooky. I think my DNA remembers watching a TV show that debunked this idea. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/20/2008 8:11:59 PM | | A good read is Greg Bear's "Darwin's Radio". The basis of the story is genetic memory and the surprises it holds. There is a possibility that there is unexpressed DNA in our genes that hold interesting instructions for long lost anomolies. Though I don't see how DNA can react to emotional stimulation outside of a body. Science has yet to measure any telepathically transmitted stimulus. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/20/2008 9:31:47 PM |
Science has yet to measure any telepathically transmitted stimulus.
So what if they haven't measured it.
Wait.. are you sure about that?
I experience telepathically transmitted stimulus so frequently.. perfect strangers (to my conscious knowledge) .. it used to surprise me, but the surprise went away quite some time ago.
Today I count off the top of my head that it happened at least 5 times.
In order:
A man in his late 80s
a woman in her late 20s
a woman in her mid 30s
a pregnant woman in her early 20s
and a physician (not mine) | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/20/2008 10:33:43 PM | | This or cellular memory would explain some of my experiences in life . . . as I could show the locals thing's about their town (Groningen, Holland) they didn't know. Orchards within town wall's, water holes and such from the big siege many hundred years ago. As well as picking up the local dialect as I was born there . . . . any more thoughts or information on this around? | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/21/2008 12:07:56 PM | I do not think genetic memory is science really. It's akin to say that somewhere out there in the universe is a purple, three headed monstor. Well, that MIGHT be true but what are the odds of actually being able to prove it?
If I claim I'm experiencing the memory of an ancestor from a thousand years ago, it's completely untestable and I can't prove it. How do you know it's not just me wishing I were living as an ancient Celt?  How do you know it's not my own memory coughing up some historical anecdote I'd heard or read, but forgotten having heard or read? At best, it's pseudo-science but hella popular in science fiction and all sorts of 'unsolved mysteries' kind of groups. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/21/2008 12:45:49 PM | | I've heard of cases where organ transplant recipients had flashes of memories that could only be attributed to the organ donor. This thread prompted me to see if I could find any truth to it. A quick search turned up nothing substantial: mostly uncorroborated tales. Still, unless proved otherwise, I certainly wouldn't dismiss the possibility that memories might somehow be stored in cells, other than brain cells. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/21/2008 12:51:24 PM | | My cellular phone has memory. I believe in cellular memory. My digital camera has memory, too. I believe in digital memory and I have a photographic memory. What I can't remember is why people like to imagine these kinds of spooky things, unless if it because of the way it provokes imagination to visit the edge of the unknown where the sense of mystery hints of freedom from the constraints of knowledge. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/21/2008 1:44:23 PM | A concept that Frank Herbert picked up on in his Dune series back in the '60s.
I've heard it said that only about 40 per cent of our genetic structure is devoted to making us the way we are. The rest is junk left over from millennia of viral infections, random mutations and evolutionary traits that are no longer relevant.
But can it hold "memories?" I guess the question is, and a neurologist would be better able to answer this, is the process of memory retention in our brain in any way related to our genetic structure? Is there a way for one to imprint itself on another? | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/21/2008 10:12:15 PM | as a thought in this is with cellular or genetic memory: how does an Cuckoo bird remember it's way back home to Africa from norther Europe during migration? How did the string theory go? Everything connected as it was a singularity . . . when the singularity become dynamic the universe began to grow in a binary fashion . . . what a digital picture that would make. In 3D
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/21/2008 11:21:43 PM | | Most religions feel we all spring from the ONE and part of the ONE. Genetically it makes sense that we are all related and are rooted all the way back to the origin. I have no doubt that each person's line of evolution from the original source has all the memories and knowledge locked away in his/her genes. We just don't know how to access these memories and the knowledge, but some day we will be able to do it. I'm convinced of that because of the spectacular advances of modern science. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/22/2008 5:23:35 AM | In university (back in the age of the dinosaurs) I learned about a collective "response" memory in each species. By that I mean that we, as part of a species, are programmed (some call it instinct) to react to certain stimuli. An example of this would be our innate fear of snakes. A person could never have encountered one, never been told about them, but knows to be afraid the first time they see one.
Back when I went to school mainstream scientists did not believe that a parent could genetically pass a specific memory or experience to its offspring. That was the belief of pre-Mendelian geneticists and I believe it had been tested and debunked. Sounds like it has come full circle.
There are the inexplicable occurrences in the World that I, too, have experienced, like seeing events hours before they happen, or having the knowledge that someone I know is going to call or come visit.
My beliefs are rather paradoxical in that I am a scientist by training, but I believe in phenomena that cannot be measured, so I try to just accept that these things happen and I'll probably never know why....Still, it is interesting to hypothesize. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/22/2008 7:02:57 AM | | Cellular memory is a controversial topic, a type of pseudo-science that movies portray as reality, but whether the body can really store memories and survive once transplanted, have yet to be scientifically proven. There are also spiritual elements with respect to memories that cannot be scientifically proven. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/22/2008 6:32:47 PM |
Back when I went to school mainstream scientists did not believe that a parent could genetically pass a specific memory or experience to its offspring. That was the belief of pre-Mendelian geneticists and I believe it had been tested and debunked.
With the negatives in the statement I'm not sure if you are saying that genetic memory was proven or debunked. Clarification please, with citations if possible. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/22/2008 7:17:37 PM | Before genetics was well understood, it was believed that parents passed specific memories to their offspring. Mendel showed that physical traits are passed from parents to offspring. Around the same era as Mendel when genetics was really taking off, it was shown that a species has a collective knowledge that is present in all members (instinct), but parents do not pass specific memories or experiences to their offspring through their genes. I don't have a citation, but I remember my prof talking about it (it was about 25 years ago so even if he did give us articles on it, I wouldn`t remember them now). We did use Helena Curtis, but that was first-year biology. I wouldn`t be surprised if it were mentioned there.
Anyway, all I'm saying is that scientists believed at one point that memories were passed from parents to children through their genes, then we started to understand more about genetics and decided that that was impossible, and now someone (who, I'm not sure) is claiming that DNA could hold memories. It wouldn't suprise me if there were SOME validity to the latter (otherwise where do instincts originate?), but I doubt that it could be measured with any sort of consistency.
About your post:
there is unexpressed DNA in our genes that hold interesting instructions for long lost anomolies
Could you clarify what you mean by "long lost anomolies"? Is that in reference to memories or is it more like a physical genetic mutation? | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/22/2008 11:32:19 PM | You said:
A single piece of DNA was observed in a room 20 feet away from the host, who was made to feel strong emotional stimulation, and the report showed that the DNA reacted exactly as his body had.
Huh? I'm not sure I understand. How would a strand of DNA have the exact same emotional reaction as a body? For one, DNA obviously doesn't have the capacity to experience emotions. Second, it doesn't have a body that would give off physiological signs of emotion like trembling, sweating, hair raising, body temperature rising, or whatever. What do they mean when they say it "reacted exactly as his body had"? I don't see how this statement makes any sense. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/23/2008 6:16:48 AM | Perhaps we need to define what we mean by the term "memory". To me it is anything that can reproduce a similar (but not necessarily an exact) result over and over. This can cover our mental memories, our DNA which is a physical form of memory, as well as the individual bits and bytes of computer memory.
This thread seems to imply that a mental memory can be saved within DNA. This is not quite correct since mental memory needs to have an experience to form the pathways for it. What DNA memory might do is to build the brain in such a way that there is a compulsion (or instinct) for certain behavior that is not learned. Is instinct a mental memory? Journalistically you could use it as a metaphor, but scientifically it would not be the same.
Could you clarify what you mean by "long lost anomolies"? Is that in reference to memories or is it more like a physical genetic mutation?
I was referring to the unexpressed physical traits that our DNA contain. But as I explained above, it also could give us insight into the relationship between how our brain is connected together (done as the result of DNA) and the subsequent way we think and reason (instinct?). Julian Jaynes' book, "The Origin of Consciousness..." delves into this in a very interesting way. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/23/2008 6:35:14 AM | What you're explaining makes more sense than visual memories being stored in DNA in our brains from our ancestors that we can't tap.
You're also right that people should also discuss on a common definition. The memory I was referring to is different from instinct. There was a theory that parents would pass memories and abilities to children. Of course we've discovered since then that we teach culture and language and that you can transplant a baby at birth and their culture will be that of the adopted parents.
Perhaps I'll give that book a read...Thanks
What about as one poster noted their ability to sense other people's thoughts. Any theories on that? | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/23/2008 5:55:56 PM |
If we all have this DNA in our bodies, we are all somehow connected, and there is a theory that we all share the memories of our predecessors, but they are locked away in our subconcious.
Nope not possible, genomes and their regulation uses distinct mechanisms from those used in long term memory. Plus even if it were true, it'd have to involve some really elaborate mechanims to somehow transfer memories, from your brain to your newly forming gametes, which would then have to somehow incorporate these into the set length of DNA. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/23/2008 7:07:15 PM |
What about as one poster noted their ability to sense other people's thoughts. Any theories on that?
Sensing people's thoughts is done all the time... of course the people must verbalize those thoughts first. Listening is a great tool. lol Some are even adept at reading body language, but with any study using a scientific protocol of a double blind procedure, no one has been able to show that they can read minds, sense thoughts or images, or any kind of telepathy. If you think you can, there there is a million dollar prize waiting, but no one has ever been able to perform reliably better than chance under controlled conditions.
Genetic memory, that which is supplied by DNA and expressed by means of how the brain is configured, can predispose people to think in certain ways. My take on Jayne's book is that when our DNA formed the split of the brain into two bicameral halves, that was the simultaneous beginning of self-consciousness as well as the basis for religion. Whether it was God's hand or chance that chnaged the DNA just so is irrelevant to the fact that it changed how people thought and how they lived their lives. It seems to be only a disposition to that way of thinking and not a mandated instinct like that we associate with reproduction. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/24/2008 4:36:00 AM |
no one has been able to show that they can read minds, sense thoughts or images, or any kind of telepathy. If you think you can, there there is a million dollar prize waiting, but no one has ever been able to perform reliably better than chance under controlled conditions.
This is where the scientific process falls down in this area. It relies on results being repeatable, with which I concur for the furthering of learning, but there are phenomena that occur randomly, are not repeatable or predictable, but the chance of them happening without an intervening force are slim.
In my case I was in grade 9 and had to choose a geography project to complete for the end of the year. I had chosen "windmills" and had started to collect the material to build one. However, all the kids were all supposed to choose unique projects and I hadn't registered my choice, as it was a weekend. That Sunday night I dreamt I was in class. My teacher, who ported a moustache, didn't have one in my dream. I saw he was wearing his checkered, green shirt (hey, this was the 70s), and I was standing in line behind a particular girl, waiting to write "windmills" on the sign-up board to register my project.
I never got to write down my choice, because the girl in front of me wrote "windmills" on the sign-up board, impeding me from choosing that as my project. I was very disappointed because I had no idea what other project to choose.
The next day, all of those things happened: my teacher had had his moustache shaved off (first time he did that in the 2 years I had him as a teacher), he was wearing his checkered, green shirt, and the blonde classmate of mine from the dream did write windmills on the sign-up board as I stood behind her.
Is it worth a million dollars? Probably not, since these things come to me rarely and without warning. It could never be measured or proven, but I'm convinced these things are not just chance...something is at work that in this universe we haven't been able to measure...I doubt that it has anything to do with DNA and the memories contained within. Stephen Hawking would probably say it's due to our not understanding the properties of time; that it could be I've lived this life before and am having a memory of the future . Others might have other explanations, more spiritual perhaps...I just don't know, but do find it intriguing. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/24/2008 5:49:15 AM | Genetic Memory is not providing stimulae to DNA and getting a realtime reaction from a distant sample of the same DNA.
Genetic Memory is where a memory or part of a memory is passed down through genetic structures. I doubt our DNA is complex enough yet to do that, encoding say this post into a strand of DNA worth of molecules would not leave any room for other information like hair color, the shape of your fingers, the color of your skin, not to mention more complex things which provide the interface between the brain and muscles.
Storing a memory, you'd need a few things to encode, visual stimuli, audial stimuli, touch, smell, reactions to each stimuli. The data quickly heaps up into a large amount when you consider just how much is involved with vision alone. The brain has a really nice mechanism for rebuilding partial data, like being able to read the letter "T" no matter how much you deform it as long as the basic shape is there, but it still has some constraints to how much isn't enough information.
You would need to select specific genes which you know for sure aren't being used, encode a chemical reaction into them, and you'd need a lot of them to accomplish something like a short 5 second memory. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/24/2008 6:20:23 AM | | I think it is meaningless to claim DNA has 'memory' in the same way the operations of the human brain lead to the brain having the capacity to store 'memory.' I think though to claim DNA and memory are related to information is more meaningful, at least in a scientific sense. | |
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| Genetic Memory
Posted: 3/28/2008 1:00:53 AM | This is called cellular memory.
The DNA encodes a chemical memory of our bodies emotional body in every cell, this is why cloning the physical body can actually happen. What goes into that body is consciousness, another thing altogether.
So there is a conscious connection and without going into detail, it is very similar to people who have lost limbs and can still feel them, for example; itch.
This question can open a great big can 'O worms. | |
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