| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/22/2008 7:26:51 PM | I heard about this when it first happened and was pissed that it was even considered discrimination...
His business, his choices...
If anyone doesn't like it, don't patronize his shop...
PHILADELPHIA (March 20) - The owner of a famous cheesesteak shop did not discriminate when he posted signs asking customers to speak English, a city panel ruled Wednesday.
In a 2-1 vote, a Commission on Human Relations panel found that two signs at Geno's Steaks telling customers, "This is America: WHEN ORDERING 'PLEASE SPEAK ENGLISH,'" do not violate the city's Fair Practices Ordinance.
Shop owner Joe Vento has said he posted the signs in October 2005 because of concerns over immigration reform and an increasing number of people in the area who could not order in English.
Vento has said he never refused service to anyone because they couldn't speak English. But critics argued that the signs discourage customers of certain backgrounds from eating at the shop.
Commissioners Roxanne E. Covington and Burt Siegel voted to dismiss the complaint, finding that the sign does not communicate that business will be "refused, withheld or denied."
In a dissenting opinion, Commissioner Joseph J. Centeno said he thought the signs did discourage some customers.
"The sign appeared immediately above another sign that had the following words: 'Management Reserves the Right to Refuse Service,'" Centeno wrote.
Geno's and its chief rival across the street, Pat's King of Steaks, are two of the city's best known cheesesteak venues. A growing number of Asian and Latin American immigrants have moved into the traditionally Italian neighborhood in recent years.
Vento had threatened to go to court if he lost. His attorney, Albert G. Weiss, said he was "pleasantly surprised" by Wednesday's decision.
"We expected that this was not going to go our way," Weiss said.
In February 2007, the commission found probable cause against Geno's for discrimination, alleging that the policy discourages customers of certain backgrounds from eating there.
The case went to a public hearing, where an attorney for the commission argued that the sign was about intimidation, not political speech. The matter then went to the three-member panel for a ruling.
W. Nick Taliaferro, the commission's executive director, said he would not appeal.
About time there is a little common sense being shown... | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/22/2008 8:01:35 PM | I agree with the ruling.
If I was to move to a foreign country, I would make every attempt to try to adapt to their ways.
If my grasp of the language was not fluent, there are other means to get your point across other than expecting others to speak to me in my native tongue.
I believe that some immigrants are too demanding when they come to North America.
If they wish to maintain their culture and language to the exclusion of ours, they should do so in their own homes or remain in their homeland.
To expect others to conform to their ways is a bit much. | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/22/2008 8:45:17 PM | I do have a problem with the concept of the wording of the sign.
"This is America: WHEN ORDERING 'PLEASE SPEAK ENGLISH
I would have preferred:
We cannot assure proper service of our clients , if they cannot speak English
Or something along those lines.
I live in a province with language laws, and that type of sign would be not seen as acceptable.
Actually, it would be far better to hire employees who were capable of speaking more than one language. In business, the customer does not serve you - you serve the customer. It would probably not be too difficult to find at least a few employees that spoke Spanish - or to try and learn some Spanish.
You are made far better by speaking more than one language in today's world, and not somehow lessened. | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/22/2008 8:54:29 PM | | I actually agree with MG about the speaking more than one language,not because we are being forced to by immigrants refusing to speak english but to increase our own knowledge...we should not be forced to have to hire bilingual people though. The onus is on the immigrants to learn english not the other way around.... | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/22/2008 9:11:36 PM | I lived in Germany for 10 years ... my ex-husband is German and we were not affiliated with the military. Although many will tell you that the Germans understand English ... it's just not so and most especially in the more rural areas ... where we lived.
I learned the language and speak and read it fluently in a relatively short time. I am of the opinion that folks who immigrate to America should make more effort to learn the language. At the same time though, I have to say that the Americans are among the most undereducated in the world.
While living in Germany, our children went to the German schools. By the time a student there is ready to attend college (around 20 years old) they are exposed to learning 4 or more languages. It's a must.
American students should learn to speak at least 3 languages in school. BTW ... the younger they start, the easier it is for them to learn. They are not as inhibited about learning it when they're younger ... it just comes so much easier. You can get them started with being interested in it by teaching them songs in it.
The problem we have in the US at this time is that teaching music in school has become obsolete and teaching languages doesn't start until one is in the 8th or 9th grade ... that's too late. | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/22/2008 9:34:44 PM |
.we should not be forced to have to hire bilingual people though.
I'm not saying anyone should be forced. It's just common sense to adapt to your clients, if you can.
If you live in a place with a lot of newcomers, especially if it's in one language (so it's not a question of having fifty) then it's a good way to increase business. In the same way, you might offer choices for different cultural diets - increasing your potential profits.
If you suddenly find your business in an area that's got a community around it that can't eat pork for religious reasons , then offering something on the menu without pork is a sound business decision. It doesn't mean you have to stop doing what you are doing.
I go to this local neighborhood store where the owners speak at least five or six languages. Not all fluently, but at least enough to communicate.
I do agree that learning a second language should be pushed strongly for in the educational system there, starting very early. There are a great many advantages to learning another language, that carry forward though your life and stay with you.
From my cultural perspective, I've always found it rather strange when Americans get upset over that "For Spanish, press one" phone message. That type of concept is easily accepted here (with French and English) with very few people having a problem with it. | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/22/2008 10:25:44 PM |
If they can't speak English,then they probably can't read the sign anyway...
You're right, it's grandstanding for english speakers. | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/22/2008 10:26:51 PM | Trying being bilingual in Indiana with French as your second language...lol LMAO at insolent1 ... I hear ya on that one. Try being bilingual in Florida with German ...
Way to completely miss the point on that one. | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/22/2008 11:22:37 PM |
Trying being bilingual in Indiana with French as your second language...lol
LMAO at insolent1 ... I hear ya on that one. Try being bilingual in Florida with German ... Way to completely miss the point on that one.
Do you speak a second language fluently?
If so, can you use it where you live?
Can you get a better paying job as a result of your "fluent second language"?
OR
Would you have to move to a different state in order for it to really be of use in your job?
I'm in here encouraging folks to be "bilingual".
I'm bilingual in a state that has no use for my "second" language. So when they advertise in the classifieds that "Being bilingual is a plus" ... they still don't mean me ... believe me.
What they really mean is "If you can speak Spanish" ... you're hired!!!" 
There are so many different languages represented here in the U.S. ... unless you know where you're going to live and work for the rest of your life ... how the H3ll can you know for sure which language to learn in order to be of help to your career? | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/22/2008 11:30:37 PM | "We cannot assure proper service of our clients , if they cannot speak English"
What a bunch of politically correct crap-ola. People are just get offended to dam easily.
Both the original sign and the other one suggested above, FAIL to recognize that if you can't speak English, then you probably can't read English. Duh!!!!
So, if you can read english and chose to not speak it in America. Then your just a foreign agitator, who probably has the ACLU's phone number in your pocket.
Sheesh...
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/22/2008 11:53:58 PM |
What a bunch of politically correct crap-ola. People are just get offended to dam easily.
Both the original sign and the other one suggested above, FAIL to recognize that if you can't speak English, then you probably can't read English. Duh!!!!
So, if you can read english and chose to not speak it in America. Then your just a foreign agitator, who probably has the ACLU's phone number in your pocket.
Sheesh...
Yeah stupid foreign agitators...they probably stupidly believed this politically correct LIBERAL propaganda on this old sign when they got off the boat...that is if they could read it.../end sarcasm 
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
Danged 'ferriner's...where the hell do they think they are anyway?
The sad part is you probably actually think this way.
Pathetic. | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/22/2008 11:56:18 PM |
What a bunch of politically correct crap-ola. People are just get offended to dam easily.
Funny, you seem offended by his alternative sign.
So, if you can read english and chose to not speak it in America. Then your just a foreign agitator, who probably has the ACLU's phone number in your pocket.
Damn those civil liberties, damn them to hell! | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/23/2008 12:05:54 AM | I see nothing wrong with the signs. The only concern I have, is that Genos is world famous. And I don't think that every foreign tourist that stops by for a steak will be able to speak it.
Other than that, "When in Rome,..................................... | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/23/2008 4:45:31 AM | From MG: From my cultural perspective, I've always found it rather strange when Americans get upset over that "For Spanish, press one" phone message. That type of concept is easily accepted here (with French and English) with very few people having a problem with it.
The difference is, the french people up there are not largely illegal immigrants. A large portion of spanish speaking people(close to 20 million) down here are illegal, and thats why you have so many people angry about it.
From madfiddler: Yeah stupid foreign agitators...they probably stupidly believed this politically correct LIBERAL propaganda on this old sign when they got off the boat...that is if they could read it.../end sarcasm
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
Most americans don't have a problem with the legal immigrants, its the illegal immigrants people have a problem with. Also, in order to become a legal American citizen one must be able to read, write, and understand English at at least a basic level. | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/23/2008 6:41:43 AM | You are made far better by speaking more than one language in today's world, and not somehow lessened.
And this said by a resident of Canada.
Census is indicating that in less than 10 years the caucasan resident of the United States,me,will be the minority population.The country I live in[which speaks English by only one vote,see our history]should then consider a change in our national language??And the census is taking into account that more than 60% of the new majority will be of the...how do you say,oh yeah,ILLEGAL entry variety.
I speak French as a second language.Not well and not by choice but was a requirement to graduate high school.My entire family speaks German and I have an basic understanding of that.I was born here....my family understood that....I speak English[and I actually try to spell and punctuate correctly,most of the time.See the word "try"....that's a hint to others.]
Hopefully one day some old[fill in the blank]will be walking across the floor in some deep-pocket retail establishment and fall and break a[fill in the blank].Sues the daylights out of them because all the "wet floor" signs actually say "piso mojado" in larger print than the English warning[common around here]and then all will be right in the world.
And before the shit storm hits....I know Montreal Guy was not suggesting a language change........but if you let enough of anything happen....it happens. Let's try and see things happen in the legal[damn,there's that word again]way OUR constitution dictates...much like the way one can become a citizen here. | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/23/2008 7:29:44 AM | Cotter, I actually do consider myself bilingual, and yes, my second language is extremely useful in every state in the United States of America. Being that my second language is ASL, it is a universal language across the states.
I'm sorry that you feel that you chose a language that isn't useful. But I'm sure being bilingual in a second language does give you an advantage. | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/23/2008 8:04:38 AM | | Maybe the issue goes a little deeper here than just what you see on the surface.This is just a thought,but maybe this has something more to do with feelings of patriotism than bigotry.Perhaps Joe Vento,like many of us here the U.S. is disturbed by the idea that America is losing it's identity to globalism, illegal immigraton and political correctness.Vento has never refused service to anyone(Even though he, like many businesses, reserves the right to do so),but try to imagine a guy with a thick Philly accent trying to communicate with a non-English speaking person who wants their cheesesteak with Whiz and no onions and peppers! English is the common language here,and some agree that it should be the official language(After all, if you can't read a ballot printed in English,how can you cast an informed vote?).I do speak some German,although it's been many years since I needed to,but if I moved to another country to seek a better life,I would make the effort to learn to communicate with the natives in their tongue,not try to make them learn mine. As for "Press 1 for Spanish", I called a U.S. gov't office the other day and was told to press 1 for English! | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/23/2008 11:25:10 AM |
Cotter, I actually do consider myself bilingual, and yes, my second language is extremely useful in every state in the United States of America. Being that my second language is ASL, it is a universal language across the states. Congratulations ... you can speak/read sign language.
I'm sorry that you feel that you chose a language that isn't useful. LMAO ... I didn't choose the language my dear ... it chose me.
My ex-husband is German and we moved to Germany for 10 years early in our marriage. I was thrown into the language and fortunately learned well. We ran two businesses out of our home. By the time I left Germany, I was working crossword puzzles in German.
But I'm sure being bilingual in a second language does give you an advantage. Nope ... as yet it has not been an advantage for me as far as my career is concerned.
It has had some social advantage ... I can join a German-American club and understand everyone in the club. I can join their chorus and truly understand and pronounce the words I'm singing. I'm even called upon from time to time to help the English speaking members with pronunciation and understanding of what we're singing.
I was having a discussion with a fellow nurse not long ago about being bilingual (here in Florida and other states that have heavy Spanish speaking populations) ... and she told me that she still remembers when she heard that a board of education somewhere actually passed a resolution to teach EBONICS in school. I didn't believe it until I found the following article:
http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/
JULY 20, 2005
Teaching Ebonics in school?
Filed under: General Stupidity — Michael Hampton @ 3:00 am
An initiative in San Bernardino County aims to bring Ebonics into the classroom. The pilot program will teach second, fourth and seventh grade students about black history and culture.
Mary Texeira, sociology professor at Cal State in San Bernardino, commended the school board for approving the policy.
Texeira suggested that including Ebonics in the program would be beneficial for students. Ebonics, a dialect of American English that is spoken by many blacks throughout the country, was recognized as a separate language in 1996 by the Oakland school board.
“Ebonics is a different language, it’s not slang as many believe,” Texeira said. “For many of these students Ebonics is their language, and it should be considered a foreign language. These students should be taught like other students who speak a foreign language.”
Teresa Parra, board vice president, said she worried the new program would have an adverse effect.
“I’m afraid that now that we have this the Hispanic community, our largest population, will say, ‘We want something for us.’ Next we’ll have the Asian community and the Jewish community (asking for their own programs). When will it end?” — San Bernardino County Sun
I wonder what the signs warning of a wet floor will say? What is the EBONIC equivalent for "WET FLOOR"?
And would they point to that sign in that Philly shop if someone came in and tried to order speaking EBONICS? What if someone tried to order in ASL? | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/23/2008 1:21:17 PM | | In my opinion it looks like a disgruntle Italian, Joe Vento (whom can speak English), upset over the "growing number of Asian and Latin American immigrants" moving into his "traditionally Italian neighborhood in recent years." | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/23/2008 1:28:51 PM |
What if someone tried to order in ASL?
Well, I'll guarantee you this, if they did come in and attempt to order in ASL, and the restaurant did not make reasonable accommodations (ie a notebook to write on or some other form of communication tool) that the restaurant in question would more than likely be sued as it would be a direct violation of the American with Disabilities Act.
As far as Ebonics go, I agree, I thought that was the most worthless thing I have ever heard. Ebonics to me is nothing more than street language, and not a recognized language anywhere or in any other country much like Spanish or German is. | |
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| 'Speak English' Signs OK at Philly Shop
Posted: 3/23/2008 3:00:19 PM | | I sure hope someone 'Speak English' at the Philly Shop. Americans are multicultural, so why the animosity if someone doesn't speak English? Those complainers are the ones who only learned one language and expect everyone in the world to speak English. Blame the government for letting people in who can't speak any English. | |
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