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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/26/2008 7:53:50 PM | Hello,
Finally, Pakistan gotten a new prime minister and government through a democratic process. The new government is obviously getting sick and tired of seeing American missiles coming in to the border towns of Pakistan and many Pakistani civilians are dying due to that.
What should this new Pakistani goverment do, if the missiles just dont stop coming in? Should it retaliate?
Why American foreign policy is so hypocritical? First you talk about democracy and when the democratic process doesn't bring the desirable results, you just want to punish the people of that country one way or another?
Right now John Negropente is in Pakistan right now and he is trying to persuade the new paksitani government not to stop the military operation in tribal areas of Pakistan.
The new government want to resolve the problems through peace negotiations and this is what the people of Pakistan want also. They are getting sick and tired of seeing innocent people killed and they are sick and tired of seeing their government becoming the American puppet.
Its about time a strong message should be sent. | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/26/2008 9:04:11 PM |
What should this new Pakistani goverment do, if the missiles just dont stop coming in? Should it retaliate?
Why American foreign policy is so hypocritical? First you talk about democracy and when the democratic process doesn't bring the desirable results, you just want to punish the people of that country one way or another?
Yes, our foreign policy is very hypocritical. But retaliation against the US is suicide for Pakistan. Any sign of aggression from Pakistan, and we will probably bomb your nuclear sites. Then we would let India finish off the rest. | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/27/2008 12:14:02 AM | | The United States has stepped up its use of pilotless planes to strike at Qaeda targets along Pakistan's rugged border area, a measure that in the past drew protests from President Pervez Musharraf but now has his government's tacit approval. There is a new wave of terrorism inside Pakistan. There were over 60 suicide attacks last year, after just six in 2006. This has forced Musharraf and the new military chief, Gen. Ashfaq Kayani, to acknowledge that the same extremists threatening Americans now also pose a growing threat to Pakistan's internal security. | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/27/2008 4:36:46 AM | Those suicide bombings have increased in Pakistan because Musharraf's merciless action in the tribal areas.
Pakistan never had the problem of suicide bombing. So many suicide bombings last year?
Thanks to Musharraf's slave attitude towards Bush.
Terrorism should be eliminated. However, American foreign policy is flawed.
Through military strikes you can only kill one terrorist. However, at the same time you end up making 100 more.
This can only be resolved through negotiations. | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/27/2008 4:47:27 AM | Perhaps if Pakistan took control of it's border region, wiped out the terror training camps and havens, and prevented the people from committing cross border attacks and running back into Pakistan the missiles might stop.
100% agree. Its Pakistan's own fault. Either YOU clear up the terrorists or the USA will! Pakistan has done nothing to address the issue of rampant terrorists running free in their country. What a bunch of dumbasses!
Thats life baby, deal withit! Bleding heart liberals need not apply. | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/27/2008 4:49:12 AM | yes the yanky policies are allhypocritical a,d pro isreal
pakistan should retalliate against the usa but not thru vioence. violence is what the yanks want, simply because thats how their marketplace profits, they are nothing more than arms dealers and war mongers, just like theyre best friends the isrealis
kick them out of your country , cut all trade with them and place an embargo on themlike they did on cuba and iraq
the yanky politicians are all weak impotent retards. they couldnt evensuccessfully attack a powerless foreign country
they push democracy but at no place in north america is there even a semblance of a democracy
americans are capialists and capitalizers
they see a weakness nd waittill your vulnerable or your back is turned
as far as i know wasnt pakistan an american ally?
hopefully you all dont have as much friend;ly fire drected at you as did the canadian soldiers that were spposed to be the americans allies
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Pakistan has done nothing to address the issue of rampant terrorists running free in their country.
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the only real terrorists are the americans and the isrealis
boycott and force them from your countries and they are nothing more than rats swimmin in their own sewer
they are not only mass murderers and war criminals they are also economic terrorists and religious zealots
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/27/2008 8:35:59 AM |
100% agree. Its Pakistan's own fault. Either YOU clear up the terrorists or the USA will! Pakistan has done nothing to address the issue of rampant terrorists running free in their country. What a bunch of dumbasses!
This means I have the right to bomb your home should I suspect a Mexican illegal is residant there. Afterall, what have YOU done to protect YOUR borders because my intelligence tells me that this Mexican is plotting against my country. Dumb ass!!
Hell, lets just have a free-for-all turkey shoot because.....that's life baby.
I do hope you know what sarcasm is. | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/27/2008 1:26:17 PM |
This means I have the right to bomb your home should I suspect a Mexican illegal is residant there. Afterall, what have YOU done to protect YOUR borders because my intelligence tells me that this Mexican is plotting against my country. Dumb ass!!
Hell, lets just have a free-for-all turkey shoot because.....that's life baby.
I do hope you know what sarcasm is.
Not a valid comparison there's a war over there, there isn't one here. Illegals generally come here seeking to work and improve the lives of their families, terrorists and Taliban insurgents cross over with the goals of overthrowing the government, reaking havoc, and attacking American and Afghani troops and/or civilians. | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/27/2008 1:58:02 PM | I agree with Random. There was no logic to bombing and occupying a country because Bin Laden might have been there at the time and there is no justification for bombing Pakistan now. It would be like the U.S. government bombing Texas if Timothy McVeigh had escaped there after the Oklahoma City bombing. We are in Afghanistan for oil access, and incidentally Bin Laden. We certainly do not care about the Taliban whom we actually supported until our pipeline deal didn't pan out.
What should Pakistan do? Hopefully they can have more success with a "democracy" there that we have had here in the U.S. lately. | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/27/2008 3:22:41 PM | Okay, before getting in to any of this, does somebody have any links to explore or sites to pore over ?
I'd like to know the specifics , who said what, when it happened, etc.
Kind of difficult to make a judgement call on something when I barely even have one side of the story (and it's a bit sketchy) Something about the idea of the US launching missiles into Pakistan with impugnity strikes me as a little 'off'. Considering Pakistan is a nuclear power now, it doesn't really make much sense. | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/27/2008 6:31:29 PM | Pakistan is suppose to be an ally with us, in this war against AlQuadia and the Taliban. So what is the problem?
The Allies attacked Germans in France for example, during the world wars. So why is this such a problem with Pakistan? Could it be, that Pakistan is not all that serious in ridding their territory of Alquadea and the Taliban?
You would think, that a country like Pakistan, who has suffered terribly from terrorism, would want to see those terrorists wiped put. In my opinion, I have serious reservations about Pakistan being an ally in wiping out the Taliban . They seem to be left by and large, by the Pakistani military to launch terrorist attacks across the border on their nehibours in Afghanistan.
For me, I believe that the Afghanis have a stronger case or argumant against Pakistan allowing these attacks to be launched aginst them, than the Pakistanis have about us attacking a common enemy, on their soil. Sorry, this argumant has very little credibility in my opinion.
For sure, we would rather have the Pakistani military handle the situation, but alas, they seem to let these terrorists launch their attacks on the Afghanis people with immunity.
When Pakistan, respects their nehibours in Afganistan and stops incursions and cowardly attacks on the Afghan people from originating from their territory, then this argumant might get some credibility. Until Pakistan shows some respect for the innocent civilians being murdered by terrorists allowed to operate from Pakistani territory, they have nothing at all to complain about. | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/27/2008 7:06:44 PM | the only terrorists in pakistan or the middle east are the american terrorists
al quaida is just small instigator branch to allow the yanks to encroach invade and set up military installations under the guise of allies.
the truth tho is they are termites and will erode the country from within.they spread death and terrorism in whichever municipalitythey dwell and always have
they didnt even join ww2 until they were certain they had an upper hand , thye allowed millions to be sacrificed to the germans and the terrors of war before they stole enough intelligence from other countries to permit them to piece together a makeshift atom bomb.
to even allude or expect any fair or just treatment from the parasite nation is just as ridiculous as thinking al quaida or sadam hussein had anything to do with the self perpetuated 911 attack
toss the invaders out of pakistan, , the middle east needs to find strength inside itself and join into a group of nations, this is the only way there will ever be a true democracy in the middle east. by joining forces they can put forth a strong image to ake the yanks back down and scurry back to their own continent and worry about their own social injustices and terrorists at home | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/27/2008 9:00:52 PM | Terrorists should be brutally eliminated that I agree.
However, not at the expense of others. No one likes to kill their own people. Ever wonder why the Paksitani Army who have gained high regards from NATO and UN for its peacekeeping efforts in war wreck countries like Somalia in Bosnia have failed so miserably in fighting the terrorists in tribal areas?
Because they know that also, those people in tribal ares are not that bad. Many of the demands of the leaders of the tribal areas are quite legitimate. The fact is, they had been neglected by the government of Pakistan for the most part of Pakistani history. Now they have become the victims of extrmist and alqaeda elements.
You really think they really adore Osama and his cronies? I really don't think so. Because the same Taliban and Alqaeda elements having fun killing thee same people, who have given them the refuge.
The tribal leaders are really upset at the west and Pakistani govt. At the same time, they are certainly not with alqaeda and taliban.
How to deal with a situation like this?
An Indian movie showed the way. The movie was also about terrorism and rebels, but it was not about Islamists. The movied really simplified it.
The movie was about a corrupt cop who would stop at nothing to gain fame and to get promotion in the police. He wouldn't even stop at killing innocent lives and burning down the villages, if he had to in the name of killing terrorists and villains. The movie starts with a rebel taking a refugee in the house of a respected villager. The villager convinces the rebel to give up arms and to hand him over to the police. However, that was unacceptable to the corrupt cop. What he does? To make it look like that he did a lot of hard work to kill the criminal, he just burned downs the whole village. Guess what? The rebel ends up escaping and he takes with him the son of the villager who gave him the refuge at the first place. And guess what? The boy grew up to be a terrorist and his only mission remains to find that corrupt cop and kill him.
The movie moves goes on. During the last hour of the movie, the corrupt cop faces the same situation. Now he is the chief of the police of the whole state and some bunch of farmers have rebeled agains the state government. They are labeled by everyone as bandits and terrorists. The corrupt cop once again orders to siege the whole village and he decides to burn the whole village down again. However, this time the chief minister of the state comes to the resuce.
He has realized that these villagers are only unhappy at the goverment and if he goes himself and persuade themp to give up arms they will give up. The cop tries his best to stop him, but the chief minister stops at nothing. He goes to the village and he promises that he will do justice to them and if they give up their weapons they will not be arrested and justice will be done to them. When those farmers hear the message of the chief minister, they give up arms immediately. They were like, "if that's the case, then we have no problem in giving up our arms."
The movie doesn't ends there. Our hero the boy whose parents were killed by the cop ends up taking his revenge any way.
Quite a very simplistic example. However, the Pakistani and American govts have to take approach along those lines. You can't just offer sticks without carrots, or vice versa. Give them love and respect. Consider their cultura and religious values. Listen to them, what they have to say. I am sure they will listen and then they will be more open to America and Pakistani govt alike. However, if you are going to keep disrespecting their culture, keep calling them backward, and if you would have no regard for their values they will not listen. Both the pakistani govt and the american govt would end up look like that corrupt cop. And then no matter how many villages we burn down in the north and no matter how many terrorists we kill, they will not go away. Because then their children will grow up to be terrorists as well.
They will be brainwashed from the start. They will be told that their parents were killed by the americans. And we will create zillions more terrorists. How many of them you can kill? How many cruise missiles you can throw? Seriously, how many nuclear bombs you can drop?
Think about it. | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/27/2008 10:52:03 PM |
Okay, before getting in to any of this, does somebody have any links to explore or sites to pore over ?
I'd like to know the specifics , who said what, when it happened, etc.
Kind of difficult to make a judgement call on something when I barely even have one side of the story (and it's a bit sketchy) Something about the idea of the US launching missiles into Pakistan with impugnity strikes me as a little 'off'. Considering Pakistan is a nuclear power now, it doesn't really make much sense.
America has occasionally done raids into Pakistan to root out suspected terrorists, and has used missiles/bombs in some instances. Google "unmanned drones Pakistan" to get an idea of what is happening. Basically intel discovers terrorists hiding along the border in Pakistan so we bomb them. The government of Pakistan might get a little huffy sometimes that we are violating their sovereignty, but I believe it's just a publicity stunt more than anything, the Pakistani government is just as happy as us to be rid of them but they can't admit it openly without causing riots. | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/27/2008 11:18:06 PM |
However, not at the expense of others. No one likes to kill their own people. Ever wonder why the Paksitani Army who have gained high regards from NATO and UN for its peacekeeping efforts in war wreck countries like Somalia in Bosnia have failed so miserably in fighting the terrorists in tribal areas?
We go out of our way not to harm innocents but it's unfortunate side effect that innocents will end up getting hurt. We are one of the only countries outside Europe that actually prosecutes it's troops for purposely murdering civilians.
Because they know that also, those people in tribal ares are not that bad. Many of the demands of the leaders of the tribal areas are quite legitimate. The fact is, they had been neglected by the government of Pakistan for the most part of Pakistani history. Now they have become the victims of extrmist and alqaeda elements.
They might not be that bad, they probably are being held victim to extremist elements but expecting us to just leave the area and let the extremists have free reign is not the answer. If those tribal peoples want us to leave them alone then they need to stand up to the extremists and give them the boot. If they don't or can't then we have to. Pakistan attempted a truce with the tribes, but the tribes could not stop the extremists from launching attacks into Afghanistan. What do you expect us to do? Just stay within Afghanistan and allow the attacks continue without any repurcussions, knowing that the enemy is hiding in an encampment just right across the border?
Quite a very simplistic example. However, the Pakistani and American govts have to take approach along those lines. You can't just offer sticks without carrots, or vice versa. Give them love and respect. Consider their cultura and religious values. Listen to them, what they have to say. I am sure they will listen and then they will be more open to America and Pakistani govt alike. However, if you are going to keep disrespecting their culture, keep calling them backward, and if you would have no regard for their values they will not listen. Both the pakistani govt and the american govt would end up look like that corrupt cop. And then no matter how many villages we burn down in the north and no matter how many terrorists we kill, they will not go away. Because then their children will grow up to be terrorists as well.
Yes, overly simplistic. The Pakistani government already tried such a truce, the result was more cross border attacks from Pakistan into Afghanistan. The truce didn't work, they stopped fighting the Pakistani military and then started stepping up attacks into Afghanistan. I don't care about their culture, and I don't care what they think about our culture. If they want to be left alone then they need to stop doing raids into Afghanistan it's that simple, you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone.
They will be brainwashed from the start. They will be told that their parents were killed by the americans. And we will create zillions more terrorists. How many of them you can kill? How many cruise missiles you can throw? Seriously, how many nuclear bombs you can drop?
Think about it.
Nuclear bombs would easily solve the problem, but I have problem with knowingly targeting innocent civilian populations simply to kill a few bad guys. Hopefully it never comes to that. | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/29/2008 5:44:25 AM | I don't care what they think about our culture. If they want to be left alone then they need to stop doing raids into Afghanistan it's that simple, you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone.
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typical yanky pride and self professed superiority
who exactly do these people think they are? it isnt their country, they havent got any right to be there to begin with, never mind enforcing and pushing thier political agendas and dogma on a culture of people that have existed for 5000 yrs before the first yanky.
if these people are attacking the united states on their home territiory , then fine , fight them , but this isnt and hasnt ever been the case and even the 911 thing was never proven to be anything more than a political prank to allow them to invade and pillage the middle east.
but last i looked,pakistan isnt a yanky colony. let these people do their own cleanup .oh wait , they cant because the yankies provide weapons and armor and funding to the terrorists and the pakistanis , hmm what a pickle, | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/29/2008 7:49:25 AM | Don't believe the hype. Musharaff is still in power and still in control. The elections would never have even be held if Benazir Bhotto were still alive. Kill off your opposition, then hold elections. Great move on his part since he wants to stay in power.
I find it funny and sad that the US promoted democracy in Iraq, but out strongest allies in that region of the world are all dictatorships whom hold little regard for human rights. Pakistan was founded to be a fairly moderate Islamic country, but we never supported ANY of their elected governments. As soon as the military seizes power, here we come with money and weapons to support them. It's a reoccurring theme for the past 50 years with Pakistan. | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/29/2008 8:28:31 PM | {QUOTE" However, not at the expense of others. No one likes to kill their own people. Ever wonder why the Paksitani Army who have gained high regards from NATO and UN for its peacekeeping efforts in war wreck countries like Somalia in Bosnia have failed so miserably in fighting the terrorists in tribal areas?"ENDOF QUOTE}
Yes Modest Mouse, I agree, Pakistan has a great record in aiding in trouble spots in the world, second to none. I greatly admire the work Pakistans military has done in many areas in the world.
{ quote" You really think they really adore Osama and his cronies? I really don't think so. Because the same Taliban and Alqaeda elements having fun killing thee same people, who have given them the refuge." end of quote}
Modesy Mouse, there are supporters of the Taliban in Pakistan, and they have supported incurisons into Afghanistan. The Afghan people do want them back, Taliban and Al Quadia have also done terrible damage to Pakistan as well. Probably, more terrorists attacks have occured to Pakistani people in Pakistan than in any other country.
Not sure why the Pkaistan military hasnt gone after them more agressively. I do know, that if we are to keep the Taliban from gaining control of Afghanistan again something has to be done about the border, specifficly the area on the Pakistan side.
Sorry, I do not understand the reluctance to go after " your own people". Do you not agree that many innocent Pakistanis have been victimized by the supporters of Al Quadia and the Taliban?
Perhaps I am wrong, but I do have the nagging feeling that it comes down to religion. Yes, most Pakistanis are against the fanatics that make up Al Quadea and the Taliban. How ever for some reason that I do not undertsand, Muslims will tolerate murderous terrists when they are fighting so called western countries, even when they hate those same terrorits more than we even do.
A good example of this was shortly after 9/11. The Canadian Muslim Congress , voted unamioulsy to condemn the attacks and Al Quadea. How ever, they also voted unamiously to condemn the West taking military action against Al Quadea simply because they were Muslim. Kind of like, us not liking Hitler, but refusing to go after him becuase he is so called " Christian". | |
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/29/2008 8:41:00 PM | Dunrich And Others,
Yes,Talibans and Alqaeda members do find sympathizers in the tribal areas of Pakistan. However, not just because they are Muslims. It is because the Pashtun tribes of Pakistan on the border have deep tribal relationships with the other Pashtun tribes in Afghanistan. There is a very complex tribal system at work.
For them tribal loyalty is second to none. Thats why they are easily infiltrated in Pakistani areas. Also, those tribal areas do these kind of things to frustrate Pakistani government because they had been angry lately at Pakistan. And rightfully so.
Musharraf government both by people in tribal areas and also in the educated elite of urban areas had been seen as the puppet of American foreign policy.
No one likes terrorism. They argue that Pakistani army is fully capable of fighting the terrorists on its own. However, at the same time unlike America they rightfully think there is a political solution to it. There is a reason why, Mullahs were completely defeated in recent elections in those troublesome areas. Because the fanatics who came to power by promiting anti American sentitment right after 9/11, they did little to nothing to curb the growing unrest in those areas. As a result, they received an embarrasing defeat during recent elections.
Everyone wants to root out the terrorists. However, at the same time they want their government to work at the level of dignity. They are getting sick and tired of seeing American diplomats visiting the offices of prime minister and president every day and trying to dictate them the American interest.
Too much reliance on America have discredited the Musharraf government completely. The recent elections were not just the referendum against Musharraf, but they were also against American invovlement.
And after 9/11, how many Americans have been killed by those terrorists on American soil? On the other hand, thousands of Pakistani civlians have paid for their lives and specially last year.
That's why this not America's war of terror. This is Pakistan's war on terror. As long as Americans will keep bossing Pakistani goverment around, the army will never get serious. That's why in my opinion, the army has not given this matter a serious thought.
But recently they got serious, when they saw bunch of fanatic thugs trying to hijack the tourist town of Sawat and small townds surrounding it. Within the matter of few weeks, the Pakistani army rooted out the terrorists from that area completely.
If army wants to get serious, they can get serious. However, they will no longer take dictation from any foreign governments.
And through recent elections, the people of Pakistan have already sent a strong message to Bush and his cronies. Their message is clear.
HANDS OFF ALREADY!!!!
LET THE DEMOCRACY REALLY WORK ALREADY!!!
RESPECT THE MANDATE OF THE PEOPLE OF A THIRD WORLD COUNRY FOR ONCE!!!!
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| The American Missiles Attacks on Pakistani Tribal Areas. Shoud Pakistani Military Retaliate?
Posted: 3/29/2008 8:51:25 PM | funny how you all forget who created and profit daily by the taliban and osama bin laden and the other associated "terrorists"
spare the democracy rhetoric, theres no such thing and the only democracy is one that is fullof corruption and misdirection
the american soldier presence there only protects the remaining terrorists ,without the " terrorists influence " there would b no no need for america to charge these countries for their military aid. ergo its in the yanks best interest to keep the terrorists safe and free from harm
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