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Posted: 4/4/2008 4:15:16 PM | Diversity. This term has hurt our country more than it has helped. Yes, minorities are now protected against racial discrimination within our workforce, this is really great, but flipping this coin around, to appease minorities, we are discriminating against white males! I for one stand for equality straight across the board, I feel what is fair for one group is fair for another group. I do not feel that white males within our nation should suffer to enable quota's of minorities to fill positions within our work force.
I write these words as a "minority" myself. I will never write that there is not discrimination being vehemently displayed within our work force, but where is the discrimination actually stemming from? We live within an era which is chocked full of discrimination laws which do protect minorities within our work force, but I have yet to view a law protecting white males. I have stated numerous times my disagreement with "affirmative action", for I feel that people no mater their skin or ethnic background should be awarded positions due to their abilities, not the color of their skin or country of origin or gender. Yes, of course there are racists within our country and there are people who would gladly utilize their racist thinking and hire strictly people they "favored", but I am finding this to be true of minorities as well, I have viewed numerous times "minorities" exhibiting the same racist behavior as they accuse white males of performing.
In today's time, I view alot of soapbox dwellers screaming for sensitivity as well as diversity, well what about individual rights of people as a whole? Meaning, all races of people, not just the few who have this loudest voices. A good example of this is, the Confederate Flag, some people truly love the history of that flag and some do truly understand what it stood for, where I do understand that some people are offended by the mere sight of it, why do you we have to silently put it away? I say fair is fair, if I am not allowed to openly show a Confederate Flag, then I should not have to view all the Malcolm X memorabilia as well as "Fight The Power" T-Shirts, for that in my eyes, is racist, I have literally debated the topic of the "Confederate Flag" with someone who was actually wearing one of those particular T-Shirts. Malcolm X was a racist, but people are allowed to openly flaunt t-shirts with his name on it as well as pictures to include racist sayings, but one can not fly a flag where over 90,000 black men served in under and fought for what they believed in, as I have stated, it's ridiculous.
Illegal aliens are now allowed in New York State to receive drivers licenses,wow, this is a winning situation for the illegals, not only can they "mooch" off our hard earned dollars, they can drive legally within our country and more than likely without auto insurance, and to make this so much more exciting, once our cops here within our state start arresting these illegals for driving without auto insurance, New Yorkers hard earned tax earnings will pay for their stays in jail and of course this will include the food that they eat. Gotta love America, it's enough to tempt me to take my son and leave the country and then sneak back in again, maybe we will have more benefits if the border patrol chases us across the border, oh, I"m sorry, my son is a white male, that wouldn't work.
Diversity is a load of crap. I'm tired of the posters, I"m tired of the quota's, I"m tired of races being discriminated against to appease other races, no matter the races involved, let's eliminate "Affirmative Action" and rely on good old fashioned qualifications, yes, I said qualifications.
To be fair here, I will now address women in the workforce, whether corporate or blue-collar positions. Women deserve equal favor same as others, but when a woman merely receives a position due to her gender or how good she is at "favors", I feel this is wrong as well. I have viewed numerous women receiving titles they did not deserve. Women as a whole want to be "equal", but they do not want to do the old fashioned work which is needed in order to be equal, for they are far too busy playing the "helpless female" roles, these types of women do not deserve their jobs, women such as these "types" need to realize that jobs are to be performed on their feet, not their backs.
Diversity within our country is a joke and will remain as such as long as we allow minority groups within our country to discriminate. TRUE diversity is allowing all citizens to enjoy freedom from discrimination and until this occurs, diversity is merely a word to me and rings true of nothing but a smoke screen that hides the true racists within our country. | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 5:11:42 PM | Nona, simmah dah nah!
Affirmative Action is very simple. Government and quasi-government employers seek to have a workforce that is representative of the demographics of the people it serves. Private companies and corporations who accept government contracts usually accept the condition that they have an affirmative action plan in place to at least try to have a workforce that is representative of the demographics.
It's not a perfect system, but it's very simple: if a government serves a population that is 10% green, then it's workforce should be 10% green.
If merit alone were used........and merit really isn't what it takes a lot of the time because most people hire and like to work with people in the same social class as they are, they relate better .......then 10% green of the population is at an eternal disadvantage.
For every job, let's say there are 10 applicants, 9 white and 1 green. Chance are, among those 9 whites there is going to be someone who has more education, experience, merit, whatever .....each and every time.....so you roll the dice but the odds aren't that you will get 1 in 10 jobs you apply for as a green person, it's more like 1 in 100 or worse.
I don't think you will ever see more than an ethnic group's share of their demographic in a government ...........but what you will see are a lot of women and it's really the women entering the workforce that's made it more difficult for white men. | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 5:19:04 PM | Wow, interesting concept Steven, and one I have not truly contemplated. I must state however, that I do disagree. If women in the workforce truly hurt white males as compared to other minorities, then why are women overall within the corporate level not being paid equally? This is the reason I disagree with your statement, I do however, respect your opinion :)
I believe that minorities are given more opportunities for education due to grants and many scholarships afforded to th em, I feel this is a wonderful thing, so I do believe that our minorities within our country due to equal opportunity with education are becoming just as educated as white males, so I feel that white males are NOT always the most educated in competition for jobs. | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 5:19:20 PM | I don't believe in affirmative action... I don't need anyone telling me how to treat others.
I give everyone a fair chance... | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 5:30:44 PM | | I agree with your logic, it's obvious I do not believe in Affirmative action as well, I feel equal opportunity should be afforded to all within today's currently society and this means white males should be in the equation. | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 5:39:30 PM | I work in a technical field, and while the vast majority of people in my field are male, the white male population seems to be dwindling. I don't know if this is because of affirmative action or for other reasons. Also, I don't think that it's just that women don't get hired because of sexism, there just aren't very many women who get the schooling to do the same stuff. Out of a class of 30-40 people in college, 2 of them were female. We had 4 freshman year I think, but one left after a year (wasn't doing well I think) and one left the beginning of Junior year - because she was bored/uninterested I think, she was doing well enough.
I admit that I'm in the white male category, but I think that affirmative action has started to swing the other way some. Scholarships and grants for school that only minorities can apply for are one thing - demographics can show that certain groups tend to fall in certain places on the economic ladder. But forcing employers to hire people because of race seems to cause problems. I believe that it is really only supposed to force employers to only consider who is best regardless of race or whatever, but I think that some employers tend to be afraid that if they don't hire some minorities they will be singled out as racist and have the government come down on them, so they hire some minorities just to say they aren't racist.
I guess I do work in a field where the pool of qualified candidates is relatively small, so maybe things are different with a less skilled job - such as a stocker or checker at the supermarket. No offense to anyone I hope, but those seem like the jobs where affirmative action may really have an effect and be doing some good in keeping employers from only picking people based on race since the skills tend to be a lot less specialized and are more common across the range of possible applicants.
The idea is right, I'm just not sure the execution worked out they way it really should have. | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 5:44:47 PM |
It's not a perfect system, but it's very simple: if a government serves a population that is 10% green, then it's workforce should be 10% green.
There is one very simple , undeniable and huge problem with this mentality...
We are NOT all equal in terms of ability in every aspect.
In order to level everyone , discrimination must be comitted "legally " by the state.. Discrimination is always very wrong. Particularly when it becomes the law of the land!
Now get this ......the government tells free citizens "you must discriminate" ...it's just PC craziness!
Equal opportunity ....yes.
Equal outcome .......NO! | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 5:52:10 PM | So we aren't all equal in ability, but in some things that doesn't matter as much. For skilled labor, I agree that while equal opportunity != equal outcome. However, it seems like that for 'unskilled' labor - things that require no training beyond maybe a high school diploma or GED (if even that) - since everyone should be about equal in ability, equal opportunity == equal outcome.
What do you people think? Does this make sense or am I off my rocker? | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 6:22:10 PM |
What do you people think? Does this make sense or am I off my rocker?
No, you're not off your rocker. Now if you hadn't tried to balance the question then you might have been... LOL
Lot's of people wish to look down upon unskilled labor but I'm not one of them. In fact first I don't believe there is such a thing, everyone knows how to do a few things, and to me that isn't exactly a person without skills. Secondly, I have the highest respect for blue collar types and unlike most management I value them far more than my white collar peers who have trouble finding the dipstick on an engine. They think they are so smart, so educated that it's their lot in life to put people down especially those who work with their backs.
That is one of the greatest problems currently in the USA.
Management/CEO's fail to see that it's blue collar employee's that makes the economy succeed or fail. When labor is under payed recession follows... Naturally a recession doesn't hurt the wealthy because they spent their time grabbing up all the profits for their own selfish greed instead of distributing the wealth to those who actually made the profit possible. If the earnings were more distributed across the board a recession would far more difficult to arise in the economy. | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 10 | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 6:37:31 PM | Upon reading your reply, I immediately began thinking about failing companies who had CEO"s with HUGE severance packages while the blue collar workers lose everything. This is not fair in my eyes, but does indeed show greed.
If unskilled labor is to be labeled as such, then why bother training them to perform a trade with any company? I agree with what you said. If someone is performing a particular trade and has received training from an organization to do so, it should not be labeled unskilled labor, for I am sure most CEO's could not perform what most supposed "unskilled" laborist's perform.
Back to the diversity within our workforce, I personally believe that with all the discrimination laws which are indeed intact, affirmative action is no longer needed within our society, most socially responsible corporations not only follow the law's within our country pertaining to this topic but also include their own "Code of Conduct" which only adds to the awareness of supposed diversity.
I believe diversity is more times a dream. There is so much reverse discrimination occuring from not only the higherups within most corporations but from the minority part of our society, I am beginning to wonder if anyone truly believes it exists, or are they merely playing "the game" to keep up with their tax breaks? It's very fishy to me. | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 6:38:47 PM | Affirmative action basically says one group is inferior, and needs extra help.
What do you think about affirmative action in law school admissions? Should members of a certain race, (and only one race), receive more points on their tests for admission just because they are African American? To me that says "Ok, you aren't that intelligent, so we will give you extra points" To me, that is racist.
About women in the workforce...
I have dated my share of "career" women. The amount of days they take off, come in late, don't feel well, take off for kids, or go home early is astronomical to me. Perhaps men do that too these days, but I am not sure.
And women that do sleep there way into a promotion is more common than we hear about. I have known several that dated the boss, dated the Ceo,got a job through their boyfriends, etc, and then were assured job security even after they broke up, as some used it as a form of quiet blackmailing.
I do have a problem with the govt telling me whom to hire. I own a business. Luckily it is not big enough that I am forced to hire based on skin color. However, I would hire any black man or woman that would make me more money in a heart beat. | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 6:43:49 PM | diversity, created by our masters to divide / conquer us.
The secret is and will always be unity by focuing on our similarities, not our differences.
All that black week, womens rights, and other stuff is actually bad.
(Remember girls, history was rewritten by her victors, our our case, 45 years of media / special interests exaggerating nonsense.) | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 13 | |
| Diversify This!
Posted: 4/4/2008 6:49:57 PM | I am a woman and I will be the first to admit, I have viewed women who sleep their way to the top sorta speak. This really infuriates me because there are women out there who do indeed earn their keep, but because of the women who earn their job titles on their backs, it makes it extremely difficult for the women who are legit to be respected.
I feel men and women should be treated alike in many different aspects within the workforce, of course we have to be realistic here, there are particular issues which management has to be sensitive to with women. Issues such as maternity leave etc...but I also feel that men should be able to take time off as well to spend with their new born children as well. Some corporations do allow this to their male employees with pay. Everyone thought the family act which was passed by clinton was such a great thing, the one thing they did not understand that it is only words on paper, according to the family leave act, your company does NOT have to pay for this.
Referencing extra points being given to someone on exams or admissions. I"m going to sound so hypocritical here but here goes.....I feel disabled war veterans deserve this privledge. Disabled military veterans can take a state or government exam and are awarded 10 extra points to their final score. I feel anyone who was injured fighting for their country deserves this privilege, and yes, it is a privilege, however, I am against someone receiving this privilege due to their ethnic background or gender. | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 7:07:00 PM | Nona, when I grew up it was very rare for a woman to work outside the home. Even teachers we had, when they got married they were gone.
Women are 50% of the population, nearly all of them work. The workplace has absorbed a HUGE amount of women in the past 30 years.
Blacks, a minority, are 10% so black males are 5%, females 5%. Women are not a minority! Men do have the advantage of a working spouse now, but ...the ability to earn is still pretty much on the male.
It has nothing to do with women and the corporate ladder, a lot of women are up there in numbers never imagined 30 years ago. I know many very well-paid women. I think the med and law schools now are more than 50% female.
As far as my "interesting concept", it's very simple: a workforce that reflects the demographics. MOST of the time, a white male is not going to find affirmative action a barrier....... | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 7:13:19 PM | directlyme66, I made my case in post #2. It is not discrimination, again, it is simply assuring that the workforces reflects the demographics of the population.
Nothing to do with merit.
If you want to tell me that there might be a white man more qualified for a position in an open competition than a black woman, Iwill believe you.
If you want to tell me that the that the fire station headed by Captain O-Malley and all the white, Irish firemen in the middle of a black neighborhood is not discrimination and is just "equal outcome", I won't believe you.
Believe whatever you want to, buddy, I really don't give a s**t, actually.  | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 7:14:50 PM | Well, I'll probably get slammed for saying this but I think most of you are smart enough to see I'm not putting women down at all...
The first real window for women to enter the workforce came about during the industrail revolution. Of course also during this time children were considered just as employable. So, it was nothing uncommon for young children to be working on the factory floor along with their parents. However, society began to see the negative impact and dangers that implied and laws were passed to stop the practice... Yet women continued to be part of the workforce but mostly limited to textile industries.
The second window opened during World War II and with most of the men serving in the armed forces. That made many jobs never performed by women available and women were encouraged to enter the workforce to support the war. Sure the intentions was good and the necessity was required. But something had changed since the early days of the industrial revolution and that was TAXES...
It didn't take much logic for the government to realize that it could earn twice the volume in taxs if both the males and females were employed.
Please note I'm not saying that women shouldn't be in the workforce nor am I saying they aren't capable of performing the same jobs as men. However, it would be foolish to not admit that there are some task that are better suited to certain genders than others... The ultimate question that must be asked is how much better would our society be if women were far fewer in the workforce?
I can't answer that? But I don't fear in asking the question... Only a fool would flame me for daring to ask such a thing... I feel I made it very clear that I believe a woman is just as capable as a man to do work. I also believe they should be paid the same for the same type of work...
What are your thoughts? | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 8:53:29 PM |
directlyme66, I made my case in post #2. It is not discrimination, again, it is simply assuring that the workforces reflects the demographics of the population.
If you set quotas based on race and/or gender , then , that is discrimination .
Why the disconnect?
Believe whatever you want to, buddy, I really don't give a s**t, actually.
Ditto .
HIRING OF VISIBLE MINORITIES FOR “DIVERSITY” HAS TO END
A recent case of visible minority “diversity hiring” by the City of Richmond (British Columbia) highlights the nonsense of such hiring all across Canada and the absolute necessity that this policy (must) end.
Richmond is the 25th largest city in Canada and is located just south of Vancouver. Since high immigration levels were introduced in 1990, Richmond’s population has grown an incredible 46%—almost completely because of immigration from Hong Kong, Taiwan and Mainland China. It has effectively replaced Vancouver’s historic Chinatown as a gathering place for Chinese and become the area’s new Chinatown–although inflows of large numbers of Chinese into other Metro-Vancouver suburbs have made them close runners-up.
Richmond, B.C. has decided that its fire department workforce must change from being predominantly white male to reflecting… “the community it serves”. Currently, Richmond has 191 firefighters to serve a population of around 185,000. Admittedly, some of these firefighters have displayed juvenile behaviour, and this situation has to change. But how is the hiring of recently-arrived (Foreign) visible minorities, the unstated purpose of this policy, going to achieve that goal?
The Richmond Fire Department had to apply to a B.C. Human Rights panel to get permission for a “diversity” plan which allows 75% of new jobs in its fire department to go to visible minorities and women. The plan will last from 2007 to 2010.
Here’s what’s wrong with the “Visible Minorities” part of the plan:
(1) The plan is blatant queue jumping and is brazenly unfair to people BORN here. Most of the visible minorities will probably be recently-arrived immigrants. There are already many people born here (including our First Nations) who are probably interested in these jobs and have formed a line-up. No one who has recently arrived here is entitled to an instantaneous share of the country’s resources. Like everyone else, immigrants should stand in line and present their qualifications, not be preferentially escorted to the front of the queue by a sanctimonious B.C. Human Rights panel and zealous, self-righteous municipal officials.
(2) Contrary to what immigration advocates may preach, federal immigration policy should not be putting private or public employers in Canada into the position of being forced to provide jobs for people from OTHER countries. The first responsibility of our federal government and of employers is to Canadian citizens. This has been a long-established principle which was decided upon after much conflict, but which is being seriously undermined. When our federal government panders to the recent immigrant vote, employers should stand up and protest. By granting jobs to recently-arrived on the grounds of “creating workplace diversity”, Richmond is accepting the notion that it be a hiring agency and that all that outsiders need do is arrive and reflect their presence, particularly their coloured skin presence, in order to get employed. What kind of employment qualifications are (A) “being present” and (B) skin colour? Other governments at all levels have illogically done what Richmond is proposing, but that shameful precedent does not excuse the immorality of their actions. The claim of “systemic discrimination”, often used to justify race-based actions, has been thoroughly discredited.
(3) For over two years, Canada’s “labour shortage” lobby has been trying to frighten and stampede the country into not only perpetuating our high immigration levels, but also increasing them. As critics have pointed out many times before, there may be a few areas where it is helpful to bring temporary workers into Canada. However, it is more advisable to use our own educational institutions to train our own high school graduates, our underemployed and our unemployed (particularly Canada’s First Nations) to fill these jobs. Bringing in large numbers of (foreign) outsiders discourages our own people from taking required training. If our government accepts the “labour shortage” lobby’s demands (most of which are blithely echoed in our media without a demand for concrete figures), high immigration numbers will continue. This will perpetuate the arrival of more people Canada does not need and more absurd calls such as the Richmond one for “more racial diversity” in the workplace.
(4) Finally, what has happened in Richmond is a symptom of a much larger national issue. To claim that Richmond’s fire department must become racially diverse is to echo the demand that Canada must become racially diverse. What would countries like China or India think of Canadians telling them that their populations lacked diversity and that the lack of white people there was a problem? If Canadians had made such statements there, they would justifiably have been summarily deported—-if not dispatched to other less pleasant ends. Yet in Canada, immigration advocates who have proclaimed “lack of racial diversity” as a major Canadian “illness” (and “racial diversity” as a sign of “wellness”) have been sympathetically listened to. In fact, they have had their way with Canada. They now arrogantly compare Canada to a laboratory in which a unique social experiment is underway. In the past, this experiment would have been properly called “colonization”, not the current sugar-coated term, “the creation of a racially diverse country”.
(5) The big questions many Canadians ask are these: (A) When were Canadians ever asked if they wanted to be a part of this colonization experiment? (B) What sane person would want to elevate colonization and the enormously trivial notion, “the creation of more racial diversity“, to the status of national goals?
(6) On behalf of the potentially-displaced firefighter job-seekers in Richmond and of job-seekers all over Canada, who will not get hired if “diversity” policies are implemented, let us ask one important question: How should our ‘displaced’ react to the betrayal of their lives and THEIR country by the host of immigration advocates and “diversity” promoters within our (CANADIAN) borders? [All highlighted areas are by Editor]
[…] >>Source >>Immigration Watch Canada
Population of Canada - 33,000,000
Population of China - 1,300,000,000
ALSO:
Vanishing Jobs For Whites ONLY
Diversifying Vancouver’s Police
Racial Diversity - A CON Game
Importing Chinese Miners?
Hire Canadians First!
Labour Shortage MYTH
CANADIAN Border Madness
Immigration Reduces Income
WHITE People - An Endangered Species
Multiculturalism - A Dividing Force
Publisher’s Memo On Immigration
New Chinese Political Party In Canada
Chinese Man Knocking On Canada’s Back Door
…..and still more on the Chinese.
The goal of ABOLISHING the WHITE RACE is on its face SO DESIRABLE that some may find it hard to believe that it could incur any opposition, other than from committed white supremacists. Make no mistake about it, we intend to keep bashing the dead white males, and the LIVE ones, and the FEMALES too, until the social construct known as ‘the WHITE RACE’ is destroyed – not ‘deconstructed’ but DESTROYED.”
- Jewish studies professor, Dr Noel Ignatiev | |
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Posted: 4/4/2008 9:07:01 PM | A Canadian Reader Says Jobs For Whites Are Vanishing North Of The Border, Too
From: Gordon Turner
Re: Harold Rice’s Letter: A New York Reader Says Good Luck To White Job Seekers
As a follow-up to Rice's letter referring to "happy job applicant photos", depicting few, if any white males, the same curious situation exists here in Canada.
Government pamphlets containing photo layouts and placed in public libraries prominently display minorities near the front and center of a group setting despite the fact that Canada's majority white population is 86 percent.
An Ontario Provincial Police Department career site shows a well-defined bias against white males while the minorities receive what I call “top billing”.
The Toronto Police recruitment website is, however, generously added token white guy in its photo…but he's old enough for retirement. The white females have their backs to the camera, while symbolically genuflecting towards the black child or hugging a minority. Another white woman has her face blurred out.
And here’s another story posted on the Internet over two years ago about the Royal Canadian Mounted Police who had an unwritten policy of not hiring white males. Thus the R.C.M.P. was having difficulty recruiting qualified applicants.
Turner writes that he joined the Metropolitan Toronto Police Force in the late 1960s when comparatively low crime rates were the norm...long before mass Third World immigration began to change the dynamics of that once-great city.
Continuing, Turner adds that he then worked for the Ontario Provincial Police, equivalent to our state police, before entering the private sector.
Since his retirement, Turner spends his time getting a “real education” on the Internet. | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 19 | |
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Posted: 4/5/2008 4:27:23 AM | Steven:
It has nothing to do with women and the corporate ladder, a lot of women are up there in numbers never imagined 30 years ago. I know many very well-paid women. I think the med and law schools now are more than 50% female.
As far as my "interesting concept", it's very simple: a workforce that reflects the demographics. MOST of the time, a white male is not going to find affirmative action a barrier.......
I did some research to find out the current demographics within the US
based on gender, however, it turned futile due to the fact so
many marketing firms as well as other groups clouded the research,
I became frustrated and stopped.
I must say, to be fair here. Yes, there are more women than ever
within the workforce, even more so within the corporate atmosphere but
women are still more times to none not being paid equally as their
male counterparts. This is more times to none why some not all women resort
to "sleeping" their way to the top, or at least as far as they can
go anyways. In stating this, it's wrong, no matter the reasoning.
White males definitely find affirmative action a barrier in jobs
such as Police exams, Firefighting exams, other public servant
exams and jobs. This barrier is also found within our armed forces.
Here locally where I live, I remember the city literally stating
that they were going to make the fire exam more easy for minorities
to pass, they wanted more minorities. I personally could not believe
that they would even admit such as thing. I know many a white police
officer, bailiffs and firefighters who had to wait longer on the list
for these jobs after successfully passing these exams with high scores
while minorities with lower scores were making it into these jobs
ahead of them. This is not fair in my eyes. I believe in having
minorities within the mix, but would you want someone no matter their
ethnic background with YOUR life in your hands when they only barely
passed the exam for their current job? I do not, but this is what
is occurring. Affirmative Action is definitely a barrier in this
instance.
Topgear:
Please note I'm not saying that women shouldn't be in the
workforce nor am I saying they aren't capable of performing the
same jobs as men. However, it would be foolish to not admit that
there are some task that are better suited to certain genders than
others... The ultimate question that must be asked is how much
better would our society be if women were far fewer in the
workforce?
You bring up a legitimate question and one which I feel is fair to
be asked. You are absolutely correct, there are particular jobs within
our workforce which are better suited for a particular gender, however,
we all know there are always exceptions to that rule. Our military
is a great example of this, there are literally women who hold their
own, but they are a minority, that minority is growing I am proud
to state, but majority wise, alot of the jobs in the military are
best suited for male soldiers, meaning, combat related positions, I feel
the same can be said of men entering into female dominated fields, where
these particular fields are better suited by females as a majority,
there is always that exceptional male who can hold his own. I think
these things SHOULD be rewarded and noticed, however, I feel these
positions should be EARNED nor merely given due to what our society
deems as diversity. People should EARN their positions and not receive
them due to their sex or ethnic background.
How would I society be if fewer women in the workforce? I will state
that the family units as a whole would more than likely benefit from
this but we all know that due to single parent households and many
other reasons which can be thrown into the fire here, it's no longer
possible unfortunately. I feel it's a different society now as compared
to when "Mom" stayed home with the kids. We have men leaving their families
and being forced to pay child support, women as well, it's called
survival, however, back to your question, and answering directly
without all the babble, I feel our society would be better off with
women staying home with the children, but due to the economy and other
mitigating factors, it is no longer possible, leaving men and women
alike to do what they have to do to feed their families as well as
survive.
Directlyme:
If you set quotas based on race and/or gender , then ,
that is discrimination .
Actually, it's called reverse discrimination which as you stated is
discriminatory and in my eyes, WRONG!
HIRING OF VISIBLE MINORITIES FOR “DIVERSITY” HAS TO END
I agree with this. Discriminating against people to aid minorities
is wrong as well. It's no better than the flat out discrimination
which has been within our workforce for centuries. The only kick
to this is that there are laws which protect people from blatant
discrimination aimed at minorities, there are no laws to protect anyone
from reverse discrimination. | |
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| Diversify This!
Posted: 4/5/2008 4:49:26 AM | If you ask me, life for a black male is extremely easy.. Here is why...
If you simply stay out of trouble, (1 out of 3 between 20-29 is under one form of criminal supervision), and you take advantage of the programs that can get you a free college education(low income grants, black college fund), you have it made once graduating. The number of black males who do this is very small, compared to their numbers. Thousands of large companies need black males to fill quotas. So, they have their pick.
Being a white male, you are competing against EVERYONE, on an equal basis.. All white males, all females, all Asians,and affirmative action. etc. So, you simply have to be better than everyone else to get a job. Let me rephrase, a GOOD job. You are also competing against everyone whom might have better connections than you.
Being a white male, who stayed out of trouble, who earned high marks at the University, does not make you special. There are millions just like you.
And since my parents only had 2 children and saved money, as responsible adults, I had to pay full tuition. Some minority kids at my university came from inner city families, with 8 kids, whose parents lived off of welfare their entire lives. Of course, they also received free tuition. Then of course, if they just get by and stay out of trouble,(regardless if I blow them away academically or not) they have a clear path to a better job than myself. Then once in that job, they have a clear path to promotions.. If they are passed over, watch out for lawsuits.. Thats the system.
When affirmative action merely looks at population statistics, then decides the work place should mirror that, it is a problem.. Why? Because as I said, only a small percentage of African Americans even graduate high school, then college. 33% are eliminated off the bat as they are in some sort of criminal problem. Another large percent doesn't graduate high school. Another large percent doesn't go to college. So, if they are 12% of an area, maybe they are only 1% of college grads. Then they are given 12% of the jobs.. Which means companies must give any black guy with a degree a job and promotions.. | |
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| Diversify This!
Posted: 4/5/2008 5:23:32 AM | I think we can not see the forest for the trees, our jobs are being shipped overseas, the largest employer in America is Walmart, maybe we should be focusing on bringing back our industrial base and increasing job opportunities for all Americans, we should be addressing this problem at the root level
Affirmative Action do we need it to ensure that all Americans receive an equal opportunity, in my opinion based on the years that I worked and participated in the hiring process of my employer, absolutely
This issue goes a lot deeper then what we see, let’s face reality children do not start out with equality, they don’t choose their parents or the conditions they will be born into, we need to improve the living conditions of our countries children to enable them to have a equal opportunity to jobs. That involves every thing that effects their potential to be as good as what they can be.
Our educational system is antiquated, the prime objective is to push our children through school not to educate them and move them from one level to another when their achievements not their ages indicate they are ready to advance
We need to examine the results and work backwards to change what will be, why do we have so many in prison, why do we have so many on welfare, determine the root cause and work to eliminate the conditions that lead to undesirable out comes
You can not plant a seed in the desert and anticipate that it will some how become a giant oak tree | |
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| Diversify This!
Posted: 4/5/2008 5:36:27 AM | Earl,
Just because someone has white skin, does not make them "privileged". As an individual trying to make it for myself, it is not my job, while on this Earth to remedy every single situation. If people decide to sell crack, steal cars,have 10 kids they can't feed, it isn't my job to fix their situations. Actually my tax dollars are already helping to do that.
Now I own a business, and I don't like the idea of being told whom I have to hire, promote, etc. My business is not that big to be in that category, but the idea is ludicrous. If a black man could make me more money, he would be hired. If not, he wouldn't be. It's simple. | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 23 | |
| Diversify This!
Posted: 4/5/2008 5:40:20 AM | atlantaman123:
And since my parents only had 2 children and saved money,
as responsible adults
So I'm assuming you are insinuating all families who have more than
two children are being irresponsible? I am one of nine children and
I come from a German/Irish family, my parents were NOT irresponsible,
they loved kids and had them and they made sure we were taken care of,
therefore, I disagree with that statement. Besides, there are
irresponsible African Americans as well as irresponsible white Americans
as well as other irresponsible people from all races. I do not find that
this is limited to only African Americans.
I do understand what you are saying referencing the barriers white males
face, but to blame it on one particular race as in singularly is not
fair, I blame our nation as a whole for allowing reverse discrimination
in cases such as this.
EarlzP:
Affirmative Action do we need it to ensure that all
Americans receive an equal opportunity, in my opinion based on
the years that I worked and participated in the hiring process of
my employer, absolutely
I respect your opinion but I have to disagree with you. What you state
within the past of our nation, affirmative action was definitely
warranted and very much needed but within our current society with
all the discrimination laws, I feel it is not currently needed.
This issue goes a lot deeper then what we see, let’s face
reality children do not start out with equality, they don’t
choose their parents or the conditions they will be born into, we
need to improve the living conditions of our countries children
to enable them to have a equal opportunity to jobs. That
involves every thing that effects their potential to be as
good as what they can be.
I agree for the most part with this statement. Let's face reality
though. Our welfare system is corrupt. Not only by the people who
are abusing it as well as the employees who run it. The welfare
system started out as a great thing but over time has became corrupt
and merely a enabling mechanism as compared to something that truly
aids families to get back on their feet. We need a better system
one which is monitored not only from the outside, but the inside as
well. | |
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| Diversify This!
Posted: 4/5/2008 5:44:27 AM | | I kinda like this post of yours nona37. Diversity...failed plan...comprehensive plan...culture of corruption. A good smoke screen word goes a long way. | |
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| Diversify This!
Posted: 4/5/2008 5:59:52 AM | Nona, I am not saying having many children is irresponsible. If you have 8 children with 3 different men, and the govt supports all of you, that is irresponsible.
I was pointing out that often times, those that pay taxes, sacrifice, and save are punished for that.
And I am not blaming blacks, lol.. I am blaming the system.. | |
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