| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/7/2008 7:29:44 PM | I have been noticing a few people around me lately who seem to be "emotionally unavailable"... the kind who are such hardened cynics you would be surprised if they ever find love again. In fact, I am sure many of us have been in that emotional space ourselves at times, usually a temporary state. What I have noticed though is that some of us go there temporarily, heal and come back with the ability to love again..... while others never seem to heal.
I know several people, both male and female, who have lived thru very similar hardships as to what I have, and they are true hardened cynics. One even claims that unconditional love is a delusion, even the love of and for his children is a "genetics thing"... he absolutely refuses to acknowledge that unconditional love even exists. I am sure we can all think of a few people we know who have similar viewpoints.
I was pondering why this is, and I noticed one commonality in all of those who "bounce back".... those who truly heal and have the ability to love unconditionally, time and again. All of the people I know who heal and come back stronger are those who have a personal relationship with the Divine - whatever they perceive the Divine to be. Now, I am not debating on what "the Divine" is...... but most faiths/religions teach that their Divine is synonymous with love - unconditional love. Whether you follow organized religion or of a self-directed, spiritual path is not part of it, just whether your "Divine power" is a source of unconditional love or not.
Is it that Divine belief in unconditional love that gives us the strength to continue to search for a life partner, to search for an earthly source of unconditional love?
Would you agree or disagree?...... thoughts???.... feedback??? | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/7/2008 7:54:46 PM | For me it is wrapped up in the statement "to err is human, to forgive, divine."
Without the spirit of the divine it is very difficult to forgive imo, and unforgiveness leads to bitterness, resentment and cynicism. Unconditional love is opening one's soul to another human being and when that love is betrayed the tendency is to build walls to protect oneself from that sort of pain happening again. The only way to overcome that imo is to put one's faith and trust in the divine to heal the heart and again be willing to risk opening up to another person. | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/8/2008 10:56:54 AM | relationships where two people were in love but failed had conditional love
when the conditions were fulfilled/unfulfilled it breaks up
conditional love exists, this is duality, unconditional love exists
atheists bounce back to unconditionally love again
the spirit of the divine does not influence someone's ability to forgive, freewill shaped by character over time decide that
not forgiving someone doesn't necessarily leave you bitter and cynical, accepting what has happened does not mean you have agreed with it
what is forgiveness anyway? what's given and to whom? the only person you are actually forgiving is yourself for being devastated over an event | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/8/2008 1:58:58 PM | I would disagree. I believe in unconditional love but i do not believe in anything divine. That doesn't mean I can fully love unconditional but i believe that love is our natural human state. We are not perfect beings though we have all suffered and come way short of our true selves.
Being that i was involved in many spiritual circles i do understand where you are coming from though. So much talk about love and pretence in putting our differences aside to show that we are accepting and giving etc etc... Much of these things are lofty ideals that are handed down to us from well meaning guru's. However living up to them is impossible.
Unconditional love? Possible? Yes. Achievable? Not by many, perhaps a handful in the world. I still think it's a good goal to work towards though. Not just in our romantic relationships but in how we are with the world.
I'm not sure what divine belief is. But Unconditional love is what many are searching for. I think this is why Religious and spiritual groups do so well, because at our core we are love and we look to find that within and outside of ourselves. Those who are jaded have lost touch with this inner part of themselves and believe that the world is incapable of love. Given that there is so much proof to this who can blame them? I don't know if you've looked around you but the world isn't the greatest place for a lot of people.
I think all this airy farie talk about unconditional love is just making it worse for a lot of people who would just settle for any love. The greatest natural and abundant resource known to man seems to be the hardest to find now days but i definitely don't think its confined to spiritual people by a long shot. | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/8/2008 6:27:50 PM | you ask
Is it that Divine belief in unconditional love that gives us the strength to continue to search for a life partner, to search for an earthly source of unconditional love?
i think it is belief in love itself, finding it within and seeing it outside of oneself that runs our lives, including the search for a life partner, for those who are searching for that. i think earthly sources of unconditional love come in many forms.
unconditional love is our natural state, so they say. they also say we are divine.
i have found most really can not live in their natural state of love without imposing conditions....even for and from our children.
why do some become cynical and closed to love? i don't know. perhaps they have not really found it within, so have not truly seen it outside of themselves in others.
until they do really come to know love comes from within, they will always be seeking it outside, hoping others will fulfill their need.....and they are cynical while in the pain of that lesson.
finding love within (and without, for it really is all connected, all one) - some have felt is what connecting with the divine is. but it does not mean one must 'know' or believe in a divine connection to know love.
for me, words are really inadequate for all these concepts and always are open to different interpretations, so mean very different things to different people. | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/8/2008 11:31:57 PM | “Unconditional love” is an oxymoron; it’s immature; along the lines of: “I love you because I need you”.
(Mature) Love requires caring, respect, responsibility and knowledge for and of one’s object of affection; i.e. “conditions”. | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/9/2008 4:06:45 AM | higherbeing - I have no disagreement at all with your definition of "the divine".... "the 'divine' so often talked about is nothing but what is within you "
That is why I chose to NOT define what one perceives the "divine" to be.... it could be the Christian, loving God, or it could be the Buddhist "the Divine within" ..... whatever you perceive the "divine" to be. BUT if your personal perception of Divine is a source of unconditional love, then I pose the question:
Is it that Divine belief in unconditional love that gives us the strength to continue to search for a life partner, to search for an earthly source of unconditional love?
Now, in re-reading my question, I think I should have removed the word "earthly" and maybe replaced it with "external" .... is this what gives us the strength to continue to search for a source of unconditional love external to ourselves? | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/9/2008 4:53:50 AM |
I forgive you for making that religiously opinionated declaration, E. Kyro
Well thank you, thank you very much.
In all honesty however, it isn't so much a religiously opinionated declaration as an experiential one as I had the benefit of trying to love and forgive with the help of the divine and without. Without the divine help the best I could do was to harbor secret fantasies of going "postal" on the former object of my affections whereas as with the the divine I was able to forgive and move on. | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/9/2008 5:21:20 AM | WeAre1 - I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you.... just discussing, trying to deepen my understanding of life, love and Divine concepts.
i think it is belief in love itself, finding it within and seeing it outside of oneself that runs our lives ...... could that "belief in love itself" not be defined as a belief in the 'Divine' though? .... and therefore it is a "divine power" that runs our lives?
i have found most really can not live in their natural state of love without imposing conditions....even for and from our children. .... I can not speak for others, only for myself, but I know I have it within me to love unconditionally.... to just accept someone and feel love for them, and most definitely for my children. However, that being said, part of loving my children is being a responsible parent and raising them to be responsible, functioning members of society.... yes, at times that includes discipline, etc.... but just because I discipline them, that does not mean I stop loving them.... I love them always, and always will.
In the same manner, if I love someone outside of family, say a good friend... I love them unconditionally. I may not LIKE everything they do, and I may not agree with all of their life choices, but that is their choice and their path, not mine, it doesn't mean I don't LOVE them as a person and a good friend. | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/9/2008 7:42:25 AM | There isn't such a thing as 'unconditional' love for an adult. It would mean you would love unreservedly the child abuser, the murderer, the cheater, the person who beats you. That notion of love is unhealthy at minimum and delusional if carried out to the extreme.
Yes, some people who feel deep connection to the Divine are also very loving and caring. That said, we are still human beings with psychological programming and some people's defense mechanisms have been triggered by the harm (emotional and/or otherwise) they have suffered in the past. That you are spiritual, that you feel a connection to All Love, may still not cure the wounds caused you over time.
Some people; the more resilient ones (the luckier ones, I think), are able to overcome their setbacks and move on. Others are crushed by the harm they have suffered and never do fully recover. They may still feel every bit the same connection to All Love but may still be unable to allow themselves to be vulnerable ever again. | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/9/2008 8:26:18 AM |
could that "belief in love itself" not be defined as a belief in the 'Divine' though? .... and therefore it is a "divine power" that runs our lives?
Love of course can only be defined to the best of our ability to love, and unfortunately religion and spirituality have made it impossible for us to live up to the word love now. If we take out the idea that love is divine, what are we left with? I believe we are left with what love truly is a human trait. One that's expression is as diverse as a rainbow and can never be captured.
I think when we pervert human traits, feelings and states turning them into some form of lofty unattainable ideal we limit ourselves as a human race. How many people have given up on love because they or others simply cannot love to the level of gods and guru's? One can talk about love and look like they know what love is all about but put them in a relationship and everything falls to pieces including their ability to love the other person.
I think its easy for children because there is no pretence no conditioned responses just pure expression of the moment at hand. They don't care if god or the universe has the right way to do something they just are themselves. Its sad that we take that away from each other. | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/9/2008 3:22:15 PM |
There isn't such a thing as 'unconditional' love for an adult. It would mean you would love unreservedly the child abuser, the murderer, the cheater, the person who beats you. That notion of love is unhealthy at minimum and delusional if carried out to the extreme
I don't understand why you say there is no such thing as unconditional love for an adult.... and why it is unhealthy. I am seriously not trying to bash you or anything, Merrylass..... just trying to understand your reasoning. I don't believe we have it in us to love EVERYONE unconditionally.... but I do believe we have it in us, as "human beings with psychological programming" to love unconditionally those close to us. You cannot love what you do not know.... so we know those closest to us best.... and those are the ones we are capable of loving unconditionally. There are simply not enough hours in the day to love everyone unconditionally. Yes, we all have different tolerance levels for pain, whether it be physical pain or emotional pain.... so of course some of us are more resilient than others.... just as some of us heal physical wounds faster, why should it be any different for emotional wounds? | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/9/2008 4:02:05 PM |
How many people have given up on love because they or others simply cannot love to the level of gods and guru's? One can talk about love and look like they know what love is all about but put them in a relationship and everything falls to pieces including their ability to love the other person.
Somebody a long time ago said to "love your enemies" cause if you do it will be easier to love your significant other.
Seriously though I have learned a few pointers over the years that helped me to reach higher levels of unconditional love.
1. Love the "sinner" not the "sin". One thing that kept me from loving unconditionally was by focusing on the persons behaviour rather then on the person. I've learned we have all taken on unhealthy self-defense mechanisms that keep others at a distance in spite of the fact that we really want to be able to be much closer. When I get upset at someone today, it is because of their behaviour, not the person themselves.
2.When there is something about the other person I don't love, it's really about something I don't love about myself. Until I can accept that aspect about myself I cannot accept it in another.
3. Being open to loving another even if they don't love me or do anything for me. Most of us only love those who do something for us in one way shape or form. That's a selfish type of love that I believe we need to transcend if we want to experience true unconditional love both in the giving and receiving.
We get back what we put out. | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/9/2008 4:10:28 PM |
Is it that Divine belief in unconditional love that gives us the strength to continue to search for a life partner, to search for an earthly source of unconditional love? It is interesting... because once I went within.. where at first there was only pain and a great sense of emptiness... I discovered that I AM that unconditional *love*..
For me it isn't something I believe in, something I am inspired by, something I seek without... even though it encompasses all of those things too... it is what and who I AM right down to the cellular level... something I need only remember and sit quietly with..
Its funny, I have been saying this a lot lately.. that realization is paradoxically what supports AND isolates me... the irony, lol.....
Cool topic OP and very well said :) | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/9/2008 4:36:36 PM |
Love of course can only be defined to the best of our ability to love, and unfortunately religion and spirituality have made it impossible for us to live up to the word love now.............How many people have given up on love because they or others simply cannot love to the level of gods and guru's?
What if we perceived of emotional feelings like love and joy in a similar vein as to how we perceive physical feelings of cold and hot, etc.? We all have different physical thresholds...... why not emotional too? So, my capacity to handle the heat or the cold will not be the same as yours - it is very dependent on the environment you grew up in and got accustomed to.... so our capacity for love - joy - happiness.... all of it...is it really so different? It too is dependent on what we grew up with and what we are accustomed to.... including our perception of the Divine. So maybe we aren't supposed to "love to the level of gods and guru's" | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/9/2008 7:27:45 PM | Crazyl- your post is based on your belief that there is no divine....hence you separate human from divine and love from divine, saying "religion and spirituality have made it impossible for us to live up to the word love now."
Many believe humans are divine and love is part of our divinity - so love is totally human and also the part that makes us divine. No separation and, they say it is our natural state, so nothing to 'live up to'.
Your other sentence that others have noticed and commented on that keeps coming up for me is this question you pose -
"How many people have given up on love because they or others simply cannot love to the level of gods and guru's?"
I honestly don't think I know of anyone who has given up on love for that reason, (or any reason, actually:). Do you know of people who have done that?
You then wrote - "One can talk about love and look like they know what love is all about but put them in a relationship and everything falls to pieces including their ability to love the other person. "
Yes - words and actions that don't match. I think our ability to love others does come truly from our ability to love ourselves -not on an ego level, but on an utterly honest and accepting level. Relationships to me are totally the discovery of love, the challenges of love, the learning of love and the continuous discovery of who we are, whether you call love divine, or human. To me they are one and the same, and yet, they are all just words.....all open to interpretation, which as we are seeing, the words love, unconditional love, and divine have so many different interpretations.
Seeing another's perspective is part of the process of learning to love, and what love really is, even in disagreement.
Like you say about children, isn't our loving each other about us being ourselves? I'm not sure we 'take that away from each other' - feels more like a giving back....like loving is permission granted to be truly yourself. For I think that is the only way to really know ourselves, love ourselves....and each other. Otherwise, if we're not being ourselves, who are we being? People that pretend to love? Perhaps, until we find our authentic self, and for some, that means our loving, or 'divine' self.
Again, it's all words that mean different things to different people. | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/10/2008 11:23:46 PM | I had a revelation of sorts one day after reading a forum post stating that "If God was real and was as powerful as people say he is then there would be no pain and suffering on Earth, so there obviously isn't a God."
Well when I stopped to think about it I realized that it is exactly the pain and suffering that IS unconditional love. I see that love as the love a parent shows for child learning to walk. They're always close by in case the child is in danger but they will allow the child to stumble and fall so that eventually they will learn to balance themselves and walk on their own.
I believe we're here to learn to walk on our own so that eventually we will be able to work with others to help them walk as well... | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/25/2008 10:54:45 PM | mystral,
My answer to your question comes from my own personal experience. My "Divine" (or higher power, as some would say) is God. I experience His unconditional love every day in my life, and it is the sweetest love I have ever known. I try, therefore, in all my relationships (not just romantic ones) to love others in the same way. I say "try" because I am human. But I have found that shen I open my heart fully to receive God's beautiful, full and unconditional love, then it flows throughs me freely like I river to touch those around me. I went through a breakup in January that was devastating, but I have been able to "bounce back" and let love live in me abundantly because of my personal spiritual relationship with God. | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/26/2008 5:39:47 PM | I believe utterly in the cold, hard logic of the universe rather than some benign or intelligent guiding hand. Yet I believe utterly in love, and hope I represent at least a small part of it. I've often thought that love is much more funamental than a 'special' gift for humans. The march of the universe has been characterized by things getting together, from atoms to cells to the individuals who come together to form societies. What is it about togetherness? What makes everything do it?
You don't have to be, or think, divine to enjoy togetherness and love, or to forgive. I'd rather say you need to be inspired (just because you have a brain). I find that those who really get over things embrace the insults life and people throw at them, learn from them and acnowledge them for the valuable teachers they were. I'll also acknowledge that some people experience much more than they can assimilate, some more than any human could assimilate. Unfortunately, that just seems to be the price for being a part of creation (however it happened). No need to invoke any powers that aren't simply available to us as a consequence of physics, chemistry, biology, psychology and sociology. Invoking something else seems more like taking a drug for a bad symptom and having it distract you enough to ignore the problem. | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/26/2008 5:52:45 PM | God's love is not unconditional.
If you don't love God, God sends you to burn in hell for eternity.
I would rather have real unconditional love.
A love with no conditions - not modified or restricted by reservations - not contingent; not determined or influenced by someone or something else. | |
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| Unconditional love and a personal relationship with
Posted: 4/27/2008 9:52:38 PM | Unconditional love is as real as you make it.
The only proof of its existence is able to be found when, and if, you are capable of honestly loving everything.
I have moments like that sometimes, as do many of the people in this thread, and thus we have our reason to believe in unconditional love.
Do not look for unconditional love, or you'll never find it.
You must instead unconditionally love everything on your own. Define that love on your own. Through doing that, love will become a part of your definition as a person, and thus love of a similar kind will be attracted to you.
For the record, I am not yet capable of constantly being in a state of unconditional love, but I have a feeling that it is possible, and that some people would call it a state of enlightenment, or buddhahood.
Smile a bit, and drink in the world rather than spitting it out.
~ David Coldren | |
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