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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/10/2008 1:19:43 AM | http://www.startribune.com/local/17406054.html
Wall of silence broken at state's Muslim public school By KATHERINE KERSTEN, Star Tribune
Last update: April 9, 2008 - 12:45 PM Recently, I wrote about Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy (TIZA), a K-8 charter school in Inver Grove Heights. Charter schools are public schools and by law must not endorse or promote religion.
Evidence suggests, however, that TIZA is an Islamic school, funded by Minnesota taxpayers.
TIZA has many characteristics that suggest a religious school. It shares the headquarters building of the Muslim American Society of Minnesota, whose mission is "establishing Islam in Minnesota." The building also houses a mosque. TIZA's executive director, Asad Zaman, is a Muslim imam, or religious leader, and its sponsor is an organization called Islamic Relief.
Students pray daily, the cafeteria serves halal food - permissible under Islamic law -- and "Islamic Studies" is offered at the end of the school day.
Zaman maintains that TIZA is not a religious school. He declined, however, to allow me to visit the school to see for myself, "due to the hectic schedule for statewide testing." But after I e-mailed him that the Minnesota Department of Education had told me that testing would not begin for several weeks, Zaman did not respond -- even to urgent calls and e-mails seeking comment before my first column on TIZA.
Now, however, an eyewitness has stepped forward. Amanda Getz of Bloomington is a substitute teacher. She worked as a substitute in two fifth-grade classrooms at TIZA on Friday, March 14. Her experience suggests that school-sponsored religious activity plays an integral role at TIZA.
Arriving on a Friday, the Muslim holy day, she says she was told that the day's schedule included a "school assembly" in the gym after lunch.
Before the assembly, she says she was told, her duties would include taking her fifth-grade students to the bathroom, four at a time, to perform "their ritual washing."
Afterward, Getz said, "teachers led the kids into the gym, where a man dressed in white with a white cap, who had been at the school all day," was preparing to lead prayer. Beside him, another man "was prostrating himself in prayer on a carpet as the students entered."
"The prayer I saw was not voluntary," Getz said. "The kids were corralled by adults and required to go to the assembly where prayer occurred."
Islamic Studies was also incorporated into the school day. "When I arrived, I was told 'after school we have Islamic Studies,' and I might have to stay for hall duty," Getz said. "The teachers had written assignments on the blackboard for classes like math and social studies. Islamic Studies was the last one -- the board said the kids were studying the Qu'ran. The students were told to copy it into their planner, along with everything else. That gave me the impression that Islamic Studies was a subject like any other."
After school, Getz's fifth-graders stayed in their classroom and the man in white who had led prayer in the gym came in to teach Islamic Studies. TIZA has in effect extended the school day -- buses leave only after Islamic Studies is over. Getz did not see evidence of other extra-curricular activity, except for a group of small children playing outside. Significantly, 77 percent of TIZA parents say that their "main reason for choosing TIZA ... was because of after-school programs conducted by various non-profit organizations at the end of the school period in the school building," according to a TIZA report. TIZA may be the only school in Minnesota with this distinction.
Why does the Minnesota Department of Education allow this sort of religious activity at a public school? According to Zaman, the department inspects TIZA regularly -- and has done so "numerous times" -- to ensure that it is not a religious school.
But the department's records document only three site visits to TIZA in five years -- two in 2003-04 and one in 2007, according to Assistant Commissioner Morgan Brown. None of the visits focused specifically on religious practices. | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/10/2008 4:47:17 PM | | When you complain about schools founded by any religion I'll take you seriously. Otherwise it looks like your only complaint is that the school is Islamic. Which so far as I know isn't against any laws. | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/10/2008 5:37:46 PM | The problem I see is that we're breaking our own law: Separation of Church & State.
It sounds as if tax payers are funding a religious school. That is not supposed to ever happen no matter the religious content. The school needs to have its own churches support it unless it wants to go public. Once public the school must follow public school guidelines which will not allow some of the courses and events stated in the article. | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/10/2008 5:50:53 PM |
Otherwise it looks like your only complaint is that the school is Islamic. It's not even an "Islamic" school, it's an Arabic School. Not surprising there would be Islamic students there.
Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy seeks to provide students with a learning environment that recognizes and appreciates the traditions, histories, civilizations and accomplishments of Africa, Asia and the Middle East. Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy seeks to nurture the innate human values of brotherhood, equality, justice, compassion and peace. ...
Our Curriculum
Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy offers every student a comprehensive and balanced education. We provide core courses in English, Math, Science and Social Studies, as well as courses in Technology, Art, Physical Education and Arabic Language. ...
One of the unique features of our school is the inclusion of Arabic in the curriculum. Arabic is the language of culture that holds together the peoples of the Middle East, South Asia, North Africa, and East Africa. By immersing our students in this world language, we equip them with a vital tool to communicate with the peoples in a strategic part of the world. We introduce Arabic to students in a scientific, methodological, and effective manner, approaching it from a perspective thoroughly informed by contemporary theories of language acquisition and pedagogy. ...
Our Values
The founders of Tarek Ibn Ziyad Academy believe that each human being is a significant creature entrusted with the weighty role of steward of Earth. Thus, human beings are responsible for expressing the innate human values of brotherhood, equality, justice, compassion and peace among others in ways that build up the human community. We seek to integrate our students into the fabric of American life in a manner consistent with these values. The founders aim to produce stewards of the planet Earth--not just the next generation of consumers and marketers. ...
www.tizacademy.com
What is a charter school? Charter schools are public K-12 schools started by parents, teachers, and/or community members who apply for a "charter," which defines the school's specific mission and goals, and how these goals will be measured. Charter schools must be authorized by a sponsor, who then files an affidavit of intent to sponsor a charter school with the state for approval. Sponsors of charter schools may be non-profit organizations, foundations, local school districts, intermediate school districts, or post-secondary institutions. Charter schools are accountable to their sponsors, parents and families, the state, and the public for achieving measurable results in student achievement and for implementing fiscally sound management. Charter schools are extremely diverse in their focuses. From project-based high schools to arts-intensive schools to online learning and technology-focused schools, the missions of charter schools in Minnesota vary widely. Since charter schools are public schools, they are open to anyone, free of charge. If you are interested in finding out about a specific charter school, please visit the Profiles of Minnesota Charter Schools.
www.mncharterschools.org
Examples of other Minnesota Charter Schools:
A School for the Deaf Various Performing Arts Schools Various Native American Schools A West African School Spanish Schools German Schools French Schools Asian Schools A Recording Arts School An Agriculture & Food Science School A Science & Technology School A Math School Various Montessori Schools
If it walks like xenophobia, and it talks like xenophobia...it's xenophobia. | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/10/2008 6:13:02 PM | | Sure why not lie to more children about some man who lives in the sky. perfect . Let's keep the children stupid. | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/10/2008 6:28:31 PM | | I actually have no problem with religion being in school. Religion has a profound impact on human history and to leave it omitted from the lexicon is to ignore a critical element... | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/11/2008 12:30:13 PM |
I actually have no problem with religion being in school. Religion has a profound impact on human history and to leave it omitted from the lexicon is to ignore a critical element...
Which is precisely why there are churches.
I think we would all agree that physics is an immensely important part of our lives (even if most don't understand it)...but I highly doubt the church has any interest in it being taught in churches...
There's a very good reason why people far smarter than we, decided there should be a seperation of church and state... | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/11/2008 1:16:07 PM | Sure why not lie to more children about some man who lives in the sky. perfect . Let's keep the children stupid
lol love this comment. | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/11/2008 5:30:35 PM |
There's a very good reason why people far smarter than we, decided there should be a seperation of church and state...
And one of those most important reasons was not allow the government to stomp out the pratice of it. Nevertheless, that hasn't stopped the non-religious from making every attempt possible in banishing it. They do their best to label every religious person as some sort of 2nd class citizen who needs to be locked away and denied the right to voice thier opinion...
What's so wrong if someone wants to believe in a supreme being and share that knowledge with their children? Who are we to deny them this right? Who are we to label them as something less than ourselves just because we see things differently? While I'm not religious, I'm certianly no friend to those who would try to ostracize those who are... I know bad when I see it and those fantics that attack the religious and try to remove every religious image from public view whether on private property or public are in ever sense of the word "EVIL" ! | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/12/2008 12:16:33 AM | ^^^^
What's so wrong if someone wants to believe in a supreme being and share that knowledge with their children? Get a grip, sir. There's nothing wrong with that. I haven't seen anybody here say there was anything wrong with that. On the other hand, don't use MY tax dollars to teach YOUR kids YOUR religion. YOU should be spending YOUR OWN money for that instruction and establishment of YOUR OWN religion. That's all we're saying: separation of church and state! That's all the founding fathers said. It's set out in that little document called the Constitution, if my PUBLIC school education serves me well... | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/12/2008 3:34:51 AM |
I haven't seen anybody here say there was anything wrong with that. Read between the lines and that is exactly what the non-religious movement is all about. Maybe they've watched one too many Star Trek epsiodes or their vision of a false utopia that has given them a negative sense of Superiority. No where did Adolf Hitler ever say follow me put me in charge and we will kill all the Jews. Nevertheless, that is what he was saying just not saying it directly.
On the other hand, don't use MY tax dollars to teach YOUR kids YOUR religion. YOU should be spending YOUR OWN money for that instruction and establishment of YOUR OWN religion. Evidently you can't read too well I clearly stated: "I'm not religious," but I'm totally opposed to the non-religious trying to remove all religious symbols from school and public places.
That's all the founding fathers said. It's set out in that little document called the Constitution, The non-religious always like to use that as an example but like to overlook the true meaning. That admendment wasn't put into the Constitution to give the anti-religious a reason to omit religion from public veiw. If that were the case then it would have been clearly corrected by the founding fathers long ago. Even in their time they saw no reason to remove the religious art or words from governmental places, public schools (Which were often Churches) if the intent of that admendment was to omit religion altogether. However, that's preciesly what the non-religious are trying to mislead the public into believing today. Misleading the truth is what evil people do so therefore the non-religious are "EVIL" in my opinion. What the non-religious don't like is one of their own pointing this reality out...
Get a grip, sir. Open your eyes! | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/13/2008 2:59:10 AM | FYI, I followed the link to the newspaper article. OP copied & pasted only the first page of the article. Here's the entire article, this time including the second page:
(PAGE ONE - as OP copied & pasted above in msg. # 1)
Wall of silence broken at state's Muslim public school
Recently, I wrote about Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy (TIZA), a K-8 charter school in Inver Grove Heights. Charter schools are public schools and by law must not endorse or promote religion.
Evidence suggests, however, that TIZA is an Islamic school, funded by Minnesota taxpayers.
TIZA has many characteristics that suggest a religious school. It shares the headquarters building of the Muslim American Society of Minnesota, whose mission is "establishing Islam in Minnesota." The building also houses a mosque. TIZA's executive director, Asad Zaman, is a Muslim imam, or religious leader, and its sponsor is an organization called Islamic Relief.
Students pray daily, the cafeteria serves halal food - permissible under Islamic law -- and "Islamic Studies" is offered at the end of the school day.
Zaman maintains that TIZA is not a religious school. He declined, however, to allow me to visit the school to see for myself, "due to the hectic schedule for statewide testing." But after I e-mailed him that the Minnesota Department of Education had told me that testing would not begin for several weeks, Zaman did not respond -- even to urgent calls and e-mails seeking comment before my first column on TIZA.
Now, however, an eyewitness has stepped forward. Amanda Getz of Bloomington is a substitute teacher. She worked as a substitute in two fifth-grade classrooms at TIZA on Friday, March 14. Her experience suggests that school-sponsored religious activity plays an integral role at TIZA.
Arriving on a Friday, the Muslim holy day, she says she was told that the day's schedule included a "school assembly" in the gym after lunch.
Before the assembly, she says she was told, her duties would include taking her fifth-grade students to the bathroom, four at a time, to perform "their ritual washing."
Afterward, Getz said, "teachers led the kids into the gym, where a man dressed in white with a white cap, who had been at the school all day," was preparing to lead prayer. Beside him, another man "was prostrating himself in prayer on a carpet as the students entered."
"The prayer I saw was not voluntary," Getz said. "The kids were corralled by adults and required to go to the assembly where prayer occurred."
Islamic Studies was also incorporated into the school day. "When I arrived, I was told 'after school we have Islamic Studies,' and I might have to stay for hall duty," Getz said. "The teachers had written assignments on the blackboard for classes like math and social studies. Islamic Studies was the last one -- the board said the kids were studying the Qu'ran. The students were told to copy it into their planner, along with everything else. That gave me the impression that Islamic Studies was a subject like any other."
After school, Getz's fifth-graders stayed in their classroom and the man in white who had led prayer in the gym came in to teach Islamic Studies. TIZA has in effect extended the school day -- buses leave only after Islamic Studies is over. Getz did not see evidence of other extra-curricular activity, except for a group of small children playing outside. Significantly, 77 percent of TIZA parents say that their "main reason for choosing TIZA ... was because of after-school programs conducted by various non-profit organizations at the end of the school period in the school building," according to a TIZA report. TIZA may be the only school in Minnesota with this distinction.
Why does the Minnesota Department of Education allow this sort of religious activity at a public school? According to Zaman, the department inspects TIZA regularly -- and has done so "numerous times" -- to ensure that it is not a religious school.
But the department's records document only three site visits to TIZA in five years -- two in 2003-04 and one in 2007, according to Assistant Commissioner Morgan Brown. None of the visits focused specifically on religious practices. ...
(PAGE TWO which was not included in OP's original msg. #1) ... The department is set up to operate on a "complaint basis," and "since 2004, we haven't gotten a single complaint about TIZA," Brown said. In 2004, he sent two letters to the school inquiring about religious activity reported by visiting department staffers and in a news article. Brown was satisfied with Zaman's assurance that prayer is "voluntary" and "student-led," he said. The department did not attempt to confirm this independently, and did not ask how 5- to 11-year-olds could be initiating prayer. (At the time, TIZA was a K-5 school.)
Zaman agreed to respond by e-mail to concerns raised about the school's practices. Student "prayer is not mandated by TIZA," he wrote, and so is legal. On Friday afternoons, "students are released ... to either join a parent-led service or for study hall." Islamic Studies is provided by the Muslim American Society of Minnesota, and other "nonsectarian" after-school options are available, he added.
Yet prayer at TIZA does not appear to be spontaneously initiated by students, but rather scheduled, organized and promoted by school authorities.
Request for volunteers
Until recently, TIZA's website included a request for volunteers to help with "Friday prayers." In an e-mail, Zaman explained this as an attempt to ensure that "no TIZA staff members were involved in organizing the Friday prayers."
But an end run of this kind cannot remove the fact of school sponsorship of prayer services, which take place in the school building during school hours. Zaman does not deny that "some" Muslim teachers "probably" attend. According to federal guidelines on prayer in schools, teachers at a public school cannot participate in prayer with students.
In addition, schools cannot favor one religion by offering services for only its adherents, or promote after-school religious instruction for only one group. The ACLU of Minnesota has launched an investigation of TIZA, and the Minnesota Department of Education has also begun a review.
TIZA's operation as a public, taxpayer-funded school is troubling on several fronts. TIZA is skirting the law by operating what is essentially an Islamic school at taxpayer expense. The Department of Education has failed to provide the oversight necessary to catch these illegalities, and appears to lack the tools to do so. In addition, there's a double standard at work here -- if TIZA were a Christian school, it would likely be gone in a heartbeat.
TIZA is now being held up as a national model for a new kind of charter school. If it passes legal muster, Minnesota taxpayers may soon find themselves footing the bill for a separate system of education for Muslims.
Katherine Kersten • kkersten@startribune.com previous page Return to previous page
Although it's involving a lot of tedious back and forth, copying and pasting, I will attempt in another post below to also provide the earlier article that Ms. Kersten wrote on March 9th, as I think it provides a little more information that may explain to you why I am bothered by the situation. I'm letting you all know my intent, just in case the POF mods decide that I CAN'T accomplish it - due to the dreaded 2/10 posting rules here, rather inconsistently enforced... OK, let's see... back to the Minneapolis Star Tribune... | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/13/2008 3:12:29 AM |
March 9: Are taxpayers footing bill for Islamic school in Minnesota?
Katherine Kersten
Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy (TIZA) -- named for the Muslim general who conquered medieval Spain -- is a K-8 charter school in Inver Grove Heights. Its approximately 300 students are mostly the children of low-income Muslim immigrant families, many of them Somalis.
The school is in huge demand, with a waiting list of 1,500. Last fall, it opened a second campus in Blaine.
TIZA uses the language of culture rather than religion to describe its program in public documents. According to its mission statement, the school "recognizes and appreciates the traditions, histories, civilizations and accomplishments of the eastern world (Africa, Asia and Middle East)."
But the line between religion and culture is often blurry. There are strong indications that religion plays a central role at TIZA, which is a public school financed by Minnesota taxpayers. Under the U.S. and state constitutions, a public school can accommodate students' religious beliefs but cannot encourage or endorse religion.
TIZA raises troubling issues about taxpayer funding of schools that cross that line.
Asad Zaman, TIZA's principal, declined to allow me to visit the school or grant me an interview. He did not respond to e-mails seeking written replies.
TIZA's strong religious connections date from its founding in 2003. Its co-founders, Zaman and Hesham Hussein, were both imams, or Muslim religious leaders, as well as leaders of the Muslim American Society of Minnesota (MAS-MN).
Since then, they have played dual roles: Zaman as TIZA's principal and the current vice-president of MAS-MN, and Hussein as TIZA's school board chair and president of MAS-MN until his death in a car accident in Saudi Arabia in January.
TIZA shares MAS-MN's headquarters building, along with a mosque.
MAS-MN came to Minnesotans' attention in 2006, when it issued a "fatwa," warning Muslim taxi drivers at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport that transporting passengers with alcohol in their baggage is a violation of Islamic law.
Journalists whom Zaman has permitted to visit TIZA have described the school's Islamic atmosphere and practices.
"A visitor might well mistake Tarek ibn Ziyad for an Islamic school," reported Minnesota Monthly in 2007. "Head scarves are voluntary, but virtually all the girls wear them." The school has a central carpeted prayer space, and "vaguely religious-sounding language" is used.
According to the Pioneer Press, TIZA's student body prays daily and the school's cafeteria serves halal food (permissible under Islamic law). During Ramadan, all students fast from dawn to dusk, according to a parent quoted in the article.
In fact, TIZA was originally envisioned as a private Islamic school. In 2001, MAS-MN negotiated to buy the current TIZA/MAS-MN building for Al-Amal School, a private religious institution in Fridley, according to Bruce Rimstad of the Inver Grove Heights School District. But many immigrant families can't afford Al-Amal. In 2002, Islamic Relief -- headquartered in California -- agreed to sponsor a publicly funded charter school, TIZA, at the same location.
TIZA claims to be non-sectarian, as Minnesota law requires charters to be. But "after-school Islamic learning" takes place on weekdays in the same building under MAS-MN's auspices, according to the program for MAS-MN's 2007 convention. At that convention, a TIZA representative at the school's booth told me that students go directly to "Islamic studies" classes at 3:30, when TIZA's day ends. There, they learn "Qur'anic recitation, the Sunnah of the Prophet" and other religious subjects, he said.
TIZA's 2006 Contract Performance Review Report states that students engage in unspecified "electives" after school or do homework.
Publicly, TIZA emphasizes that it uses standard curricular materials like those found in other public schools. But when addressing Muslim audiences, school officials make the link to Islam clear. At MAS-MN's 2007 convention, for example, the program featured an advertisement for the "Muslim American Society of Minnesota," superimposed on a picture of a mosque. Under the motto "Establishing Islam in Minnesota," it asked: "Did you know that MAS-MN ... houses a full-time elementary school"? On the adjacent page was an application for TIZA.
In addition to the issues raised by TIZA's religious elements, there are reasons to be concerned about the organizations with which it is connected.
Group linked to Hamas
Islamic Relief-USA, the school's sponsor, is compared to the Red Cross in several TIZA documents. In 2006, however, the Israeli government announced that Islamic Relief Worldwide, the organization's parent group, "provides support and assistance" to Hamas, designated by the U.S. government as a terrorist group.
Meanwhile, MAS-MN offers on its web site "beneficial and enlightening information" about Islam, which includes statements like "Regularly make the intention to go on jihad with the ambition to die as a martyr."
At its 2007 convention, MAS-MN featured the notorious Shayk Khalid Yasin, who is well-known in Britain and Australia for teaching that husbands can beat disobedient wives, that gays should be executed and that the United States spreads the AIDS virus in Africa through vaccines for tropical diseases.
Yasin's topic? "Building a Successful Muslim Community in Minnesota."
TIZA has improved the reading and math performance of its mostly low-income students. That's commendable, but should Minnesota taxpayers be funding an Islamic public school?
Katherine Kersten • kkersten@startribune.com Join the conversation at my blog, Think Again, which can be found at www.startribune.com/thinkagain. OK, looks like that succeeded.
I don't know about you, but I don't think the separation of church and state is being respected here. The point is made by Ms. Kersten, if this were a Christian school it would no longer exist. As far as I'm concerned, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, whatever - this school is wrongly supported by taxpayers as a public school! Seems to me that the law was bent by the sponsoring organization in a very shrewd way to get the school opened in the first place. | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/13/2008 3:48:25 AM | Ah why not? Might as well throw this tidbit in there, too. Here's info from Wikipedia about the guy the school is named for:
Tariq ibn Ziyad From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Tariq ibn-Ziyad)
Tariq ibn Ziyad, Muslim Berber General d.720 Tariq ibn Ziyad Tariq ibn Ziyad conquered Iberian Peninsula in 711 CE Nickname Taric el Tuerto Place of birth Algeria Allegiance Umayyad Caliphate
Tariq ibn Ziyad or Taric bin Zeyad (Arabic: ???? ?? ?????, d. 720), known in Spanish history and legend as Taric el Tuerto (Taric the one-eyed), was a Berber Muslim and Umayyad general who led the conquest of Visigothic Hispania in 711 under the orders of the Umayyad Caliph Al-Walid I. According to the historian Ibn Khaldoun, Tariq Ibn Ziyad was from the Berber tribe of Nefzaoua, a particular branch of the Oulhasas, which live to this day on the banks of Oued Tafna, in modern day Algeria.
Tariq ibn Ziyad is considered to be one of the most important military commanders in Iberian history. He was initially the deputy of Musa ibn Nusair in North Africa, and was sent by his superior to launch the first thrust of a conquest of the Iberian peninsula (comprising modern Spain and Portugal). Some claim that he was invited to intervene by the heirs of the Visigothic King, Wittiza, in the Visigothic civil war.
On April 29, 711, the armies of Tariq landed at Gibraltar (the name Gibraltar is derived from the Arabic name Jabal Tariq, which means mountain of Tariq, or the more obvious Gibr Tariq, meaning rock of Tariq).
The 17th century Muslim historian Al Maggari wrote that upon landing, Tariq is said to have burned his ships then made the following speech, well-known in the Muslim world, to his soldiers:
“ Oh my warriors, whither would you flee? Behind you is the sea, before you, the enemy. You have left now only the hope of your courage and your constancy. Remember that in this country you are more unfortunate than the orphan seated at the table of the avaricious master. Your enemy is before you, protected by an innumerable army; he has men in abundance, but vou, as your only aid, have your own swords, and, as your only chance for life, such chance as you can snatch from the hands of your enemy. If the absolute want to which you are reduced is prolonged ever so little, if you delay to seize immediate success, your good fortune will vanish, and your enemies, whom your very presence has filled with fear, will take courage. Put far from you the disgrace from which you flee in dreams, and attack this monarch who has left his strongly fortified city to meet you. Here is a splendid opportunity to defeat him, if you will consent to expose yourselves freelv to death. Do not believe that I desire to incite you to face dangers which I shall refuse to share with you. In the attack I myself will be in the fore, where the chance of life is always least.
Remember that if you suffer a few moments in patience, you will afterward enjoy supreme delight. Do not imagine that your fate can be separated from mine, and rest assured that if you fall, I shall perish with you, or avenge you. You have heard that in this country there are a large number of ravishingly beautiful Greek maidens, their graceful forms are draped in sumptuous gowns on which gleam pearls, coral, and purest gold, and they live in the palaces of royal kings. The Commander of True Believers, Alwalid, son of Abdalmelik, has chosen you for this attack from among all his Arab warriors; and he promises that you shall become his comrades and shall hold the rank of kings in this country. Such is his confidence in your intrepidity. The one fruit which he desires to obtain from your bravery is that the word of God shall be exalted in this country, and that the true religion shall be established here. The spoils will belong to yourselves.
Remember that I place myself in the front of this glorious charge which I exhort you to make. At the moment when the two armies meet hand to hand, you will see me, never doubt it, seeking out this Roderick, tyrant of his people, challenging him to combat, if God is willing. If I perish after this, I will have had at least the satisfaction of delivering you, and you will easily find among you an experienced hero, to whom you can confidently give the task of directing you. But should I fall before I reach to Roderick, redouble your ardor, force yourselves to the attack and achieve the conquest of this country, in depriving him of life. With him dead, his soldiers will no longer defy you.[1]”
The Moorish armies swept through Hispania and, in the summer of 711, won a decisive victory when the Visigothic king, Roderic, was defeated and killed on July 19th at the Battle of Guadalete. Afterwards, Tariq was made governor of Hispania but eventually was called back to Damascus by the Umayyad Caliph Al-Walid I.
Well, guys, I just dunno... Some of the words in that speech "well known in the Muslim world" just kinda creep me out: ..."a large number of ravishingly beautiful Greek maidens, their graceful forms are draped in sumptuous gowns on which gleam pearls, coral, and purest gold, and they live in the palaces of royal kings. The Commander of True Believers, Alwalid, son of Abdalmelik, has chosen you for this attack from among all his Arab warriors; and he promises that you shall become his comrades and shall hold the rank of kings in this country. Such is his confidence in your intrepidity. The one fruit which he desires to obtain from your bravery is that the word of God shall be exalted in this country, and that the true religion shall be established here. The spoils will belong to yourselves. "
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/13/2008 5:58:38 AM | So far, we have the xenophobic* voice of one reporter, whose motives and intent are not exactly unclear. I find it helpful to view a topic from as many sides as possible, and I am sure that many thinking people also find value in this strategy, so I present some of what I found via web search on the issue here...
From a blog called "Engage Minnesota":
On April 9, we read Katherine Kersten’s column in the Star Tribune, and the e-mail exchange between Kersten and Asad Zaman, executive director of Tariq ibn Ziyad Academy (TIZA), and were compelled to respond.
I (Fedwa) have an eight-year-old daughter. I visited TIZA and decided not to enroll my daughter, choosing instead Al Amal School in Fridley. The primary reason is that I was convinced TIZA is not an Islamic School and does not teach Islamic Education to kids. I pay from my own pocket to put my daughter in Al Amal, the only Islamic school in the Twin Cities.
I (Marcia) have a four-year-old son, enrolled in a private Montessori school in St. Paul. While the school is housed adjacent to a Jewish temple—as TIZA is housed adjacent to a mosque—my son has learned nothing about Judaism by mere contact with the building. The school’s vacations are, as you might imagine, focused around Christian holidays.
Both of us work at the University of Minnesota, a public institution that receives taxpayer money. This school also closes on Christian holidays. Tests and school breaks are planned around Christian holidays to allow Christians time to celebrate. The floating holiday this year was on the Christian Good Friday, right before Christian Easter. There are “holiday parties” around Christmas Day—not, for instance, Ramadan.
However, the University of Minnesota presents itself as a secular university.
I (Fedwa) live in Brooklyn Park. The community center receives public taxpayer money, and they have a very large Christmas tree every Christmas. They close on Christmas holidays and have “holiday parties” around Christmas day.
However, the community center presents itself as a secular institution.
Kersten is upset that “Friday prayer” is allowed at TIZA, although the right to practice one’s religion is protected by the U.S. Constitution. Where, on the other hand, is her challenge to the system that allows public schools to close on the Christian holy day, Sunday? This was designed, of course, to facilitate the religious needs of Christians. All public schools and public institutions are closed on Sunday, the Christian holy day. Christians do not pray five times a day like Muslims, but set aside special time to pray and reflect on Sundays. However, when Muslims ask for small accommodations to allow them to pray—as Christians do, on Sundays—some express a fear that Muslims are imposing Shariah.
While Christians are allowed space and time to go to church and celebrate religious holidays, commentators like Kersten grill minorities for wanting the same thing. Many Muslim students study for finals on Muslim holidays, while Christian students relax and celebrate Christmas with their families. Many Muslim youth are afraid and embarrassed to pray in school, and do not go to Friday prayer, while Christians have the day off to take their children to church.
Would Kersten call for allowing some public schools to close on Thursday and Friday instead of Saturday and Sunday so that the students attend Friday prayer not at school, but at a mosque with their parents?
Would she and similar commentators call for having public schools open on Sundays? Christians could pray in a small room as Muslims currently do. Are Kersten and others who are upset at TIZA similar upset by the presence of Christian symbols such as Christmas trees in public institutions, and the institutions’ adjusting their schedules to accommodate Christian holidays?
We are not. In fact, we are not calling on schools to remove special accommodations for Christians. We ask only that the Minnesota Department of Education—and the public—extend equal treatment to non-Christian students, allowing schools to make small accommodations so that students can exercise their constitutional right to observe their religion.
The division between “church” and “state” is illusory—and, for most Minnesotans, not at all desirable. Last December, the Minneapolis Public Schools launched a faith-based initiative that encourages students to participate in church-led programs. (**Read about it here.**) The city’s school board has praised the initiative, which works with mostly Protestant churches, a few Catholic institutions and temples, and no mosques. However, to their credit, School Board Director Pam Costain, and program directors Hedy Lemar Walls and Jackie Starr, have stated a desire to reach out to the Muslim community.
We believe Asad Zaman’s statements that TIZA is not an Islamic institution. At the same time, attempts to accommodate Christianity in our schools go unnoticed, while Kersten uses a fine-tooth comb to demand an iron-like separation of prayer and state for Muslims.
What we ask for is fairness.
–Fedwa Wazwaz is a Palestinian-American freelance writer who lives in Brooklyn Park, Minnesota. Marcia Lynx Qualey is a writer and mother who lives in St. Paul.
http://engagemn.com/2008/04/11/students-deserve-equal-religious-rights-under-the-law/
(**Read about it here.**) : www.tcdailyplanet.net/article/2008/03/20/public-schools-send-students-church.html
There are three letters to the editor of the StarTribune, dated April 10, 2008. One was written by the women that wrote the above, and appears to be an edited version. Another supports the writer of the article in her crusade, and the third challengesthe reporter to investigate Christian violations with as much vigor and expresses doubt that the paper will offer a balanced view. Whether or not a balanced view will be forthcoming from the paper remains to be seen, but in the mean time, some interesting court rulings contained in a guide to what is legally allowed to take place in a public school at Christmas on the website (www.mfc.org) of the Minnesota Family Council, a decidely Christian Organisation...
To help clear up misunderstanding about what Christmas observances are allowed in public schools, the Minnesota Family Council's Northstar Legal Center distributed a summary of "Constitutionally permissible activities in government schools related to religious holidays."
1. Singing Christmas carols is permitted in government schools. In 1980, the United States Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit (which includes Minnesota) ruled in Florey v. Sioux Falls School District, that students may sing religious Christmas carols in government schools.
However, the purpose of the performance must be the "advancement of the students' knowledge of society's cultural and religious heritage, as well as the provision of an opportunity for performing a full range of music, poetry, and drama that is likely to be of interest to the students and their audience." The school board policy upheld by the court said that singing of the carols needs to be done in a "prudent, objective manner and as a traditional part of the cultural and religious heritage of the particular holiday."
2. Presence of creche scenes in government schools is permitted.
The United States Supreme Court, in Lynch v. Donnelly, upheld the right of the government to display a creche scene in the context of secular symbols of Christmas, e.g. a Christmas tree, reindeer, Santa Claus, etc. In the context of a government school, the school policy upheld by the Florey decision said that creches, crosses, the Star of David, and other symbols may be used as teaching aid or resource provided the use is temporary in nature.
The presence of the religious symbol must serve an educational purpose and be present in the context of secular symbols of Christmas.
3. Use of the words "Christmas Holiday" in government schools is allowed.
School personnel certainly are free to use the term "Christmas Holiday" based on the freedom of speech protection. Government school districts may also use the term since Congress and the President "have proclaimed both Christmas and Thanksgiving National Holidays in religious terms," and government workers received a paid holiday on December 25th which the federal government refers to as "Christmas" (Lynch v. Donnelly). It is not required, therefore, to purge the word "Christmas" from government schools.
4. Studying the Bible in government schools is allowed.
For instance, school teachers may read portions of the Bible which relate the Christmas story for the purpose of providing a literary or historical context for the Christmas season but not for religious or devotional purposes.
The United States Supreme Court in The School District of Abington Township v. Scamp banned organized prayer and devotional Bible reading from government schools but also said, "It certainly may be said that the Bible is worthy of study for its literary and historic qualities. Nothing we have said here indicates that such study of the Bible or of religion, when presented objectively as part of a secular program of education, may not be effected consistently with the first amendment."
In the U.S. Supreme Court's 1980 decision Stone v. Graham, the Court said, "the Bible may constitutionally be used in an appropriate study of history, civilization, ethics, comparative religion, or the like."
5. Use of Christmas trees is permitted.
Christmas trees are permissible because they are a secular symbol or Christmas, e.g. they don't have religious significance like a cross, nativity scene, or a Menorah. There is no establishment clause issue if the items in question are not religious in nature (Allegheny County v. American Civil Liberties Union).
6. Student distribution of religious materials, e.g. Christmas cards, is protected speech.
The right of students in government schools to distribute religious literature is protected by the First Amendment right of free speech. The distribution of printed materials is considered "pure speech" by the United States Supreme Court (Texas v. Johnson. The fact that the speech or literature is religious in nature does not diminish its protection by the Constitution (Widmar v. Vincent).
The only basis for restricting students' speech is if the school can show that such distribution would 'materially and substantially interfere with school operations or with the rights of other students," (Tinker v. Des Moines School District). Merely showing that the regulation is designed to "avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint ....[is insufficient]," (Johnston-Loener v. O'Brien).
7. Student painting of a religious picture, writing religious based essays, or delivering religious based speeches are permitted.
here again, students have constitutional rights of free speech and free exercise of religion. Students engaging in certain expressions of religious views or beliefs does not mean the government endorses those views. The only requirement is that verbal or written speech must fall within the parameters of the course. For instance, a student cannot stand up in math class and begin giving a speech about religion, because the speech has no relation to the subject being studied.
There is no endorsement of religion when schools accommodate student speech on religion. "[T]here is a crucial difference between government endorsing religion, which the Establishment Clause forbids, and private speech endorsing religion, which the Free Speech and Free Exercise Clauses protect," (Board of Education v. Mergens).
8. Allowing student-initiated Bible studies or prayer meetings on government school premises is required if nonreligious groups can meet on school premises.
The Supreme Court has recognized and upheld the Equal Access Act (1984) passed by Congress which prohibits schools from discriminating against religious-based non-curricula related student groups meeting on school premises. In other words, they must treat Bible studies or prayer meetings the same as the chess club, computer club, and other non-curricula activities. If the non-religious groups are allowed to meet on school premises, so are religious groups. All groups must be treated equally, without discrimination (Board of Education v. Mergens).
9. Saying "Merry Christmas" in government schools is protected free speech.
Government schools cannot ban the use of the word "Christmas" under the Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment (Cohen v. California). The Supreme Court has found that simply because other students object to the speech in the absence of any other justification is no reason to prohibit the speech. The court has ruled that speech that "interferes with the rights of students" means speech that is sexually explicit, libelous, or defamatory toward another student (Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier).
10. Use of religious symbols (such as the cross, Menorah, creche, Star of David) in classroom teaching is permitted.
The use of religious symbols is permissible when used as a teaching aid. The purpose of the symbol, however, must be educational and not devotional or religious in nature and temporary is use (Florey).
*Xenophobia is defined as irrational and undue fear or contempt of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples... | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/13/2008 6:08:59 AM | What's so wrong if someone wants to believe in a supreme being and share that knowledge with their children?
Get a grip, sir. There's nothing wrong with that. I haven't seen anybody here say there was anything wrong with that. On the other hand, don't use MY tax dollars to teach YOUR kids YOUR religion. YOU should be spending YOUR OWN money for that instruction and establishment of YOUR OWN religion. That's all we're saying: separation of church and state! That's all the founding fathers said. It's set out in that little document called the Constitution, if my PUBLIC school education serves me well...
yea, this is such a simple concept. do what you want, but dont expect others to contribute (financially) to your wants and beliefs. well said..
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/13/2008 6:10:38 AM | sorry those werent my words..
What's so wrong if someone wants to believe in a supreme being and share that knowledge with their children?
Get a grip, sir. There's nothing wrong with that. I haven't seen anybody here say there was anything wrong with that. On the other hand, don't use MY tax dollars to teach YOUR kids YOUR religion. YOU should be spending YOUR OWN money for that instruction and establishment of YOUR OWN religion. That's all we're saying: separation of church and state! That's all the founding fathers said. It's set out in that little document called the Constitution, if my PUBLIC school education serves me well... | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/13/2008 7:01:36 AM | Artful, you seem to be missing the point that it is the praying and teaching of religion that are not permissible. If what the reporter has written is true, the line has been crossed. The ACLU wrote to the principal (an Imam, mind you) to explain the demarcation. The articles you referred were interesting but even there clear distinction is made, prayer is NOT acceptable in the school.
http://www.aclu-mn.org/downloads/LettertoTarekAcademy.pdf
This is not about xenophobia. Somehow I believe you're a smart enough man to know that. You are obfuscating the issue with that cry.
----------------------------- Thanks for the support, Nutella. You GET it! | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/13/2008 8:43:58 AM | The singling out of one school of 281 mostly immigrant students, amidst MN's hundreds of mainstream schools full of thousands of Christian students doing the same thing on a much bigger scale, strikes me as disingenuous, at best.
Especially when accompanied by this tripe:
Well, guys, I just dunno... Some of the words in that speech "well known in the Muslim world" just kinda creep me out: ... yadda yadda yadda
For the record, lots of people were creepy more than a thousand years ago including a name well known in the Christian world...a man some folks credit with the consolidation and Christianisation of the bulk of Europe.
- Charlemagne was engaged in almost constant battle throughout his reign, often at the head of his elite scara bodyguard squadrons, with his legendary sword Joyeuse in hand. After thirty years of war and eighteen battles ... converting the conquered to Roman Catholicism, using force where necessary. - Charlemagne had twenty children over the course of his life with eight of his ten known wives or concubines. - Charlemagne repudiated Desiderata, and quickly remarried to a 13-year-old Swabian named Hildegard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne
As long as Kersten's story and this thread remain focused on one small Arab school, and not ALL the schools, then in my view, neither is about religion in schools, and both remain imbalanced and xenophobic. | |
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/13/2008 8:55:01 AM |
If it walks like xenophobia, and it talks like xenophobia...it's xenophobia.
Thanks for all the lengthy quotes from their web site!
Do you have anything even remotely relevant to the issue at hand, Artful Dodger?
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/13/2008 9:12:47 AM |
I actually have no problem with religion being in school. Religion has a profound impact on human history and to leave it omitted from the lexicon is to ignore a critical element...
As an atheist myself, and former school board member, I agree 100%.
So does everyone else.
There is no (federal) prohibition against teaching religion. Only practicing it.
In many states which supply targeted funding to Catholic schools -- things like textbooks and busing -- even the Catholic schools switch their religious practices into after-school, at a different site.
In the suburban Ohio school district where i was a board member, we provided busing to Catholic and Protestant schools or rebated our per-pupil busing costs to parents who sent their kids (say) to an inner-Cleveland Catholic school they may have attended themselves. Equal costs per-pupil. For one nearby but out-of-District Lutheran High, it was cheaper for us to run a bus back and forth, instead of giving the cash to the parents.
Or if the Catholic schools wanted the same textbooks we wanted, then we added their order to ours and aid for it (state reimbursed). (We also had a Protestant grade school,but it was across the street from our Jr High, so books only)
Our Catholic schools ran all their religious observances in the church, a short walk away, and after school.
Like I said, I'm an atheist and I was totally fine with that ... have even recommended it for other states, as I am doing right now!
Separation of church and state is of course required, and wise. But after that, it should be about the kids.
We need to be working on constitutional solutions for our kids, instead of all this screeching back and forth.
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/13/2008 9:58:10 AM |
So far, we have the xenophobic* voice of one reporter, whose motives and intent are not exactly unclear. I find it helpful to view a topic from as many sides as possible, and I am sure that many thinking people also find value in this strategy, so I present some of what I found via web search on the issue here...
Your bigotry is showing, but thanks for the cites. They include some ignorance of our constitution and other issues , all too typical of so many of the more bigoted and/or ignorant Christians.
Kersten is upset that “Friday prayer” is allowed at TIZA, although the right to practice one’s religion is protected by the U.S. Constitution. Where, on the other hand, is her challenge to the system that allows public schools to close on the Christian holy day, Sunday? This person probably votes, which is scary. First, the Constitution says no such thing. Second, praying is the PRACTICE of religion, closing is RESPECTING religion.
Even funnier -- Christian prayer has long been banned in public schools, but we should allow it in MUSLIM schools? And ..... uhhhhh ..... why is it "xenophobic" to find that kinda stupid??? Do YOU vote?
In fact, we are not calling on schools to remove special accommodations for Christians. We ask only that the Minnesota Department of Education—and the public—extend equal treatment to non-Christian students, allowing schools to make small accommodations so that students can exercise their constitutional right to observe their religion. yada, yada. yada -- Totally bogus, unless Christians are allowed to PRAY in Minnesota public schools. Show us some proof that they are, instead of all this hot air.
but in the mean time, some interesting court rulings contained in a guide to what is legally allowed to take place in a public school at Christmas on the website (www.mfc.org) of the Minnesota Family Council, a decidely Christian Organisation
I missed the one which says prayer is allowed. So .... more hot air from you, to serve what purpose?
Xenophobia is defined as irrational and undue fear or contempt of that which is foreign, The word applies to your entire post. For reasons already stated. Meanwhile ...
So far, we have the xenophobic* voice of one reporter, whose motives and intent are not exactly unclear They were pretty clear to me. Do you know what a "Straw Man Fallacy Is?"
Essentially, it can include posting several hundred words -- which have nothing at all to do with the issue -- and then acting as if you'd done something.
Your own motives and intent are quite clear to me, Artful Dodger. '
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/13/2008 10:15:47 AM |
Can anyone read a real encyclopedia any more?
What's yer point? Do you have one?
It may have been poorly argued, but the point seemed to deal with anti-Muslim bigotry, by those who conveniently forget the barbaric history of Judeo-Christianity ... the Spanish Inquisition .... Salem witchcraft trials .... public whipping of Catholics for being Catholics in Puritan colonies ... the Biblical injunctions to immediately slay all followers of different prophets, even if that means slaughtering your own spouse and children!!!
That's why our Founders insisted on Separation of Church and State -- while the Inquisition was still in practice.
Hence, no praying in public schools -- which the Artful Dodger claims is "xenophobic" to point out. Anyone else here believe that Christian prayers are permitted in pubic schools?????
Anyone else here believe it's "xenophobic" to question special rights for Muslims ... which are denied to Christians????? How goofy is that?
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| Religion in schools Posted: 4/13/2008 10:35:02 AM |
When you complain about schools founded by any religion I'll take you seriously. Otherwise it looks like your only complaint is that the school is Islamic.
Read it again. There is praying and religious practices. If you still don't see that then let us know and I'll repost the entire thing ... with boldface emphasis for the reading impaired.
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