| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 5:47:28 AM | | I have had the honor of learning under a great Pastor in Clearwater for the past four years. Before that, I really did not have much faith. What makes this Pastor so great is the fact that he loves to play the role of the skeptic. Lets face it, we are all skeptical when it comes to understanding the concept of God, because, well we are humans, and we want to make sense out of everything in life. We are not God, so therefore we only can only understand up to our human abilities. One day the Pastor got very scientific. Using Science to disprove the theory of evolution. There is a website called Doctors Doubting Darwin which is all scientists and doctors who believe that it is virtually impossibe that we are humans mutated from some blob floating somewhere. How did life begin??? That is the ultimate question and man can really, truly only assume to the best of OUR knowledge. "Does it make sense that SOMETHING came from NOTHING (big bang theory) or that SOMETHING came from SOMETING (God). If you really think that way, then those who believe in God, at least believe that there was something that created something. Before anyone slams me, I was a skeptic and a non believer. It took me investigating and learning for me to believe the way I do. I appreciate any intelligent responses. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 5:55:11 AM | You have a link for the site?
I did find this statement interesting when I was Googleing for the site:
A recent poll by the Louis Finkelstein Institute for Social and Religious Research suggests an answer. The poll finds that 60 percent of doctors reject the mechanistic Darwinian belief that "Humans evolved naturally with no supernatural involvement - no divinity played any role." Only 38 percent of the doctors polled agreed with this statement. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 6:26:34 AM | | I can't see a problem with doctors who believe that life ultimately had a divine origin but the rejection of Darwinian evolutionary theory is another matter. Presumably these doctors don't believe that antibiotic resistance occurs through Darwinian evolutionary processes and that new, mutated viruses appear through the process of evolution. They therefore appear to be espousing a form of wilful scientific illiteracy that is completely incompatible with their chosen career path. Worrying... | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 6:41:13 AM | http://www.pssiinternational.com/
Thanks.
I appreciate all "nice" replies. I hate it when people slam others for their beliefs, and it seems Christians sure seem to get slammed alot. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 6:49:54 AM | | Just wanted to clarity. If you go to the website, you can see that these doctors discent from Darwinism theory, therefore leaving alternate theories. Im sure some of these doctors are not Christians, they just do not believe in Darwinism. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 7:04:18 AM |
Does it make sense that SOMETHING came from NOTHING (big bang theory) or that SOMETHING came from SOMETING (God). If you really think that way, then those who believe in God, at least believe that there was something that created something.
I am curious to what you think created God if something has to create something ? If God just always has been then that too would suppose that something came from nothing, would it not ? | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 7:30:43 AM | http://www.pssiinternational.com/
Thanks.
I appreciate all "nice" replies. I hate it when people slam others for their beliefs, and it seems Christians sure seem to get slammed alot.
People only get slammed when their beliefs are uneducated twaddle and the result of willful ignorance. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 7:38:37 AM | | I've had a brief look at their website before quickly becoming bored and concluded that they are just a bunch of disgruntled creationists, using the gravitas of their respected professions to apply pressure on the prevailing scientific orthodoxy of Darwinian evolutionary theory. It seems a redundant exercise to me, in that an acceptance of evolutionary theory does not necessarily have to be incompatible with the idea of an initial creator. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 7:57:53 AM | The big bang theory is often misquoted as "something" came from "nothing". That's not in any way true.
The Big Bang Theory on the contrary suggests that something came from EVERYTHING. The point isn't that that the universe suddenly popped into existence, but rather that all matter, time, and space in the universe was held within that one tiny point, crushed infinitely small.
On the topic of evolution of life, the statement "impossible that we are humans mutated from some blob floating somewhere" shows a clear and probably deliberate misapplication of the principles of evolution by natural selection, ignoring the billions of years and millions of tiny steps required.
Regarding the previously stated poll of "doctors" I must say I find that highly dubious. For a start the research is by the "Institute for Social and Religious Research" which doesn't exactly sound like an unbiased scientific institution, but rather a religous apologists group pushing a religious agenda as science. It's possible that most of the doctors they asked DID indeed reply accordingly. But which doctors did they ask?
I've had a look at PSSI International and they do seem to be simply religious people hiding behind a picture of a guy with a molecular model trying to look scientific.
In any case, I don't mean to be rude but it doesn't sound like your pastor was using actual science. It sounds like he was merely stating a scientific SOUNDING conclusion that happened to match his stated view.
Sometimes what looks like a duck and sounds like a duck isn't in fact a duck but actually a religious minister dressed up as a duck to get in close to the other ducks and preach to them when they're not expecting it. 
All the science I've seen (ever) points unswervingly towards Darwinian Evolution. All the evidence I've seen against it has been conclusively proven baseless. I don't mean to be rude, just stating my view. I'm trying to be "nice", but I don't really agree with your point here. :) | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 8:24:36 AM | More than half of the stories in the Bible cannot be verified with any physical evidence. So why would you want to enter into a discussion wielding a ficticious account of history and try to discredit logical reasoning as being based on "nothing".
Evolutionary theory doesn't try and disguise itself as the truth, since the big bang can't be replicated in a lab as the scientific method requires. That makes it more believable for me because theories don't try to brainwash people as being fact, they only offer reasoning. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 9:27:40 AM | | Well Ill tell ya what. When any of you can actually PROVE to me anything different, then I might take a look at it. My post was not redundant. Most of you are just hardened and have too much ego to believe that there is a power higher than your understanding. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 9:48:30 AM | | ^^ Back at ya. Don't you see the various skin colors that humans exhibit? If you buy the story of Adam and Eve and discredit the possibility of evolution (a slow gradual change) then, I'm wondering if you would like to enlighten me as to what color Adam and Eve were. Then further inform me as to how the other races came to be. Why do we live longer and have grown taller than our ancestors? | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 10:00:33 AM | Clrwtrgirl08
Well Ill tell ya what. When any of you can actually PROVE to me anything different, then I might take a look at it. Why do you need proof to believe something different. If you currently believe in a creator your beliefs are nothing more then philosophical theories with no proof. Sounds to me like you are one of the hardened people with too much of an ego. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 10:45:40 AM |
Why do you need proof to believe something different. If you currently believe in a creator your beliefs are nothing more then philosophical theories with no proof.
Bill Ding
I wish you good luck trying to prove that my belief in a Creator is a 'philosophical theory'. because it isn't a philosophical theory, then I can say that you are wrong in your comment. Unless you are applying the 'philosophical theory' as meant for yourself concerning this. Because the way I see it, faith is not a philsophical theory to the one who possesses it, but it a philsoophical theory to the one who observes anothers faith, from the outside looking in.. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 10:50:44 AM | consigliere31,
I wish you good luck trying to prove that my belief in a Creator is a 'philosophical theory'. because it isn't a philosophical theory If it is not a theory based on a philosophy (whether personal or not) then what is it ? Fact ?
I am saying it is a theory because I cannot offer proof. For you to say it is not a theory would require you to offer the proof, not me. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 11:00:08 AM |
If it is not a theory based on a philosophy (whether personal or not) then what is it ? Fact ?
I am saying it is a theory because I cannot offer proof. For you to say it is not a theory would require you to offer the proof, not me.
If I could prove a Creator, then that would make the Creator an idol.
Proof that God exists has been experienced by millions of people. Proof that God doesn't exist, has been experienced by no one. A negative cannot be proven. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 11:05:38 AM |
SOMETHING came from NOTHING (big bang theory) or that SOMETHING came from SOMETING (God).
The big bang theory doesn't say that - and where did God come from?
Nobody has to slam you, in one sentence you've shown you're a liar and a hypocrite. You slam yourself.
I've seen that Doctors Doubting Darwin website before. On their main page they state "the eye is no friend of his theory, both because Darwinists have utterly failed to offer a detailed, plausible account of how it might have evolved, and because design theorists have laid out positive evidence showing that the eye has the hallmark of designed systems."
Design theorists have no evidence whatsoever - although they are quite good at droning on about the complexity of life, something we expect to see from evolution. If the eye was designed, the designer was a moron - the receptors in the eye are blocked by blood vessels. My 6yr old daughter would have known better than to design it that way.
As for evolution of the eye: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye
The poll finds that 60 percent of doctors reject the mechanistic Darwinian belief that "Humans evolved naturally with no supernatural involvement - no divinity played any role." Only 38 percent of the doctors polled agreed with this statement.
Had they asked how many doctors believed in creationism, the results would likely be less than 1%. Doctors are often theistic evolutionists though. Not that a study by that group would be impartial anyway. And not to mention its an appeal to authority fallacy - I believe what the evidence tells me, not in people's credentials. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 11:34:01 AM |
- I believe what the evidence tells me, not in people's credentials.
You've see the evidence or the interpretation of the evidence? There is a difference. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 12:18:28 PM |
When any of you can actually PROVE to me anything different, then I might take a look at it.
Very good; and I'll say the same. When you can PROVE a "god" who created all this, then I'll take a look at it. If you're going to demand proof, you have to be prepared to give it - and you can't.
As for the "something from nothing" argument, I once read an article (and how I wish I could remember the title) by Dr. Isaac Asimov, in which he completely demolished this criticism. He showed how the evolution of life from apparently "nothing" was not only possible, but under conditions such as existed on Earth in the remote past was almost inevitable.
Besides this, something from nothing has been shown to occur. Do a search on "virtual particles." You'll see that "empty" vacuum has been found to be seething with particles that do in face appear from nowhere - although most are admittedly short-lived. In addition to particles, tiny bubbles of space-time have also been observed. It is possible (very, very long odds against it, but possible) that such a "virtual universe" could, once in existence, remain in existence, and then, under the same condition as our own, expand just as ours did. So who is to say that this, rather than a Big Bang, was not the origin of our own universe? | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 12:43:12 PM | | The springing into existence of the universe is a hard thing for me to get my little brain around. If time and space arose at the same time, does that mean there was no "before", or does it mean that any information about a beforetime is forever unavailable? It's wierd stuff. I'm almost convincing myself to decide an angry, bearded bloke made everything happen, just to alleviate the headache.. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 12:46:07 PM | If you can prove to me that matter has always been in existence, then I believe God does not exist. This argument is alway a stalemate. Either something comes from nothing or something created both nothing and something.
According to worldwide census, 2005, on religion. Only 2.7 percent of the population is atheistic; should be 49 / 51% by odds alone. How do you come up with this discrepancy in the percentiles, and don't tell me there are a lot stupid people.  | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 2:58:28 PM |
If I could prove a Creator, then that would make the Creator an idol.
I assume you are loosely quoting Justo Gonzalez here(?) I personally don't find this to be particularly convincing. Did not the 70 elders within the wilderness receive "proof" of a Creator? If one is from an Abrahamic religion, did not Moses receive "proof"? Did not the 70 elders? Did the Creator then become an idol to these ancients? What of heaven (if one believes in such a place)? Will the Creator become an idol to those who are in heaven and have “proof”?
Although aesthetically pleasing, I think this particular belief that any deity which can be proven necessarily becomes an idol doesn't have much poignancy once looked at a bit deeper. Although a fairly talented orator (and not a terrible theologian), Gonzalez often looked at things superficially that deserved a deeper look. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 3:16:11 PM | Well Ill tell ya what. When any of you can actually PROVE to me anything different, then I might take a look at it.
Have a look at the proof:
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo.html
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/molgen/
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/abioprob.html
Need any more proof?
Most of you are just hardened and have too much ego to believe that there is a power higher than your understanding.
It's not about ego, it's about evidence. Besides, god doesn't believe in a power higher than himself so maybe he's just got a really big ego.  | |
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