| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/16/2008 8:04:14 PM | As most of you regular readers/poster may know, by trade I am a Mortician/Funeral Director. Since revealing that kind of info thru posts, quite a lot of people have messaged me asking me questions about the whole death/funeral industry. I have happily responded to these questions as Death is a experience that we will all share and sadly we will all experience the passing of a loved one, family,friend etc and will need the advice/guidance of a funeral director.
Even in the year 2008, there are still alot of myths surrounding death/funerals and what "really" goes on behind the scenes but I am pleased to say, that nowadays there is access to books like - "Funeral Rights - what the Australia death care industry doesnt want you to know" by Australian Robert Larkins that people can read to enlighten them, but not everyone wants to spend 20 bucks on a book they will probably only read once. Once a year I hold this talk at my Funeral Home to educate the community ..we usually get over 200 attend, so people do want to know.
So with your permission, I will start this little forum........if you dont want to participate or read it, please dont delete it because some people may want this knowledge....however I full appreciate that Death is still regarded as the last taboo subject, which is kind interesting as it is the one thing we all have in common, our immortality...even more so than taxes.!!! If you still want to message me privately with a quesiton, please feel free to do so. I realise today that I had blocks on my mail but Ive lifted them now.
So I will start with some trivia.
Funeral homes came into be in Australia just after the first World War. So many men were killed in this war, that families were losing 2/3 members over a period of time. The families got tired of turning their front parlour into a sitting room for the deceased - this is where traditionally the deceased was laid out to be viewed and respects paid. For some families maybe having to go thru this process 2,3, even 4, times during the Great War was too overwhelming, so it came to be that the local carpenter starting taking on this job. It was the local carpenter who also made the coffins, so some smart carpenter, turned his carpentetry shop into a small but tasteful funeral parlour for viewings only and meanwhile still ran his carpentry business out the back.....sadly with so many deaths during the Great War and then the second World War coming into play so soon after, your local carpenter saw some merit in making the funeral parlour his predominate business and kept his coffin/carpentry business on the side...as the business grew, he began to out source his carpentry business and hung onto the coffin making and viewing busines.
The funeral home really took off in the 1970s as people wanted more personalised funerals and didnt want religion based services, so viewing parlours started incorporating a non denominational chapel into their buildings, where services could be held and so began the diminish of the church service and the rise of the celebrant.
And this industry has grown and grown, purely based on trends. Australia then began to embrace the "Wake" or "Condolences" issues introduced by other cultures, so the funeral parlour became the viewing venue, the service venue and then the gathering place for mourners after the service, hence now why funeral parlour incorporate catering after the service. Some places even have bars !!! And for Asian families whose funerals usually go over a period of three days, they often have a meal at the chapel with the deceased and the funeral staff working at that time are often asked to share in the meal and it is considered highly offensive to refuse - the Asians have lovely traditions for their deceased - like handing out "Lucky Money" to the funeral staff, but more on that later if you want to know.
So I figured I could introduce this little forum , for those who really do want to know issues regarding Death/Funerals...if you dont, I fully respect that and I hope I havent offended you. I just kinda figured if we can post a forum on how to cook a chook (I learned a lot from that thread) we can post a helpful forum on a issue that we all will confront at some stage and perhaps I can do something to ally your fears or to reassure you.
Trust me if this was a thread on knitting, cooking, reading maps, mechanics, farming or even sex..I have zip knowledge...Im only really good at the above and I hope people will see that Im trying to help if help is wanted and again I hope some healthy discussion/debate among my fellow posters.
Cheers
Pookie
PS: Im working double shifts at present, but will answer questions during breaks...so please bear with me with replies...ta | |
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TLC_
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Joined: 1/26/2008
Msg: 2 | |
| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/16/2008 8:27:24 PM | A very good topic to enlighten people.
Death is nothing to fear, though for me the fear would be to wake up and find myself in a coffin, that’s why im an organ donor.
And it’s a good trade to be in, never be out of work, it is after all a dieing trade. | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/16/2008 9:03:26 PM | Pookie,im you dear friend.....we've just txtd each other,but,even *I* cant ask you anything about this topic !!
Ive got a weak stomach & am a big wuss..........................
See you Fri....and,i'll txt you how i go this afternoon.........xx | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/16/2008 9:05:51 PM | What I want to know Pookie, is why... if I own my land and choose to be buried without a box like every other living creature that passes on, my family is not allowed to do this?
I do realise it's a business, and fancy coffins are pretty and all that.. but if I don't want that for myself, why is that wish disrespected?
Oh, and thanks for the thread. I didnt know this was your thing. | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/16/2008 11:17:34 PM | Not to reduce such a serious subject to trivial crap (god forbid lol) but I've heard that when women with silicon boobs are cremated the implants are the only thing left, with the possible exception of a few chunks of the really big bones. True or false Pooks?
ronda  | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/16/2008 11:41:04 PM | Strawbs you are a wuss...remember the story I told you about the guy buried in the fridge in Kiribati ... now you did laugh at that one...!!!
Bionic Angel
Hi
Thanks for your question..
You may be buried on your own land that is allowed, however your local council will require you to purchase a permit to do so and that usually means money for your local council (cause they want to get in on the act) Permit prices vary accordingly and also your neighbours have the rite to object, just like if you were building a pergola and they will object ....alot of country folk still get buried on their porperties, so it is legal but the main thing is in surburbs, most people dont like the idea of a deceased person being literally in their back yard. But yes you can be buried on your own property. You still must be buried at the minimum of 6ft.
You are not required by law to be buried in a coffin, as is the tradition with Muslims, who are buried in a shroud however if you are having a gathering, service or whatever and the deceased is present at that service they must be in a box (doesnt have to be a coffin) as long as its a container that is sealed airtight (funny story about a friedge as mentioned above) and in compliance with the Health Department Act regarding deceases bodily fluids....once the service is over, you can then remove the deceased from the box and lower the deceased into the ground. This is becoming a popular option now for those who wish to be more "green" in the approach to their burials.
Rainbowskin
Hi
A common myth....very few things survive cremation which is at a standard 900 degrees and go to 1000 degrees...and sadly silicon is not one of them. Titanium screws and plates do which is common in hip replacements or severe fractures, spinal rods usually do and occasionally a metal plate from skull surgery, but nothing else....perhaps the femur (thigh bone) from a large male - but I can guarantee that every thing else is incinerated...you literally are reduced to ash. It tkaes approx 1 and a half hours for a full grown adult to incinerate and yes we do burn the coffins. The only thing that is removed from the coffin is the name plate for tracking purposes...nothing else is removed..handles are burnt - you will find most are plastic anyway......naturally big metal Batesville Caskets are not burnt (those big American looking caksets) ...but they are designed for burial or mausoleum interments anyway.
So dont worry about your boobs Rainbowskin !! they will go with you !!! | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/16/2008 11:56:24 PM | This is so freaky.... my life reflects the threads! Yesterday it was in the disability thread and today I've just come from a funeral. There was also another one which involved toyotas! dodododo!!!
or is this my life!!  | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/17/2008 1:41:54 AM | Sid, Im pleased to say nowadays there is intense psychological testing to undergo before you are employed within the industry especially if you will performing work in the mortuary or dealing direct with familes eg:e as a funeral consultant. But as you know testing doesnt guarantee anything. As with all industries there are a few rotten apples and sadly I did come into contact with such a person many years ago, he was employed as a assistant in our home . He was actually the son of a funeral director and did have a few intense issues. He is is currently serving jail time for his obsession with all things dead, it was pretty sick actually........as for the probe...um pass, as yes that would be a NO
No Hilly no Y shape coffins that I know of but whose to say theres not a market for that
Undecided
Yes you can still have a pyre if you so wanted however yet again you will have to deal with local council beaurocracy which Im sure in the end would not be worth the hassle, because of the Health Act and the local laws and the cost of permits and the rites of your fellow neighbours to object etc..hence why there are cemeteries and crematoriums. But hey its your funeral !!!
Hope this hasnt upset you Brisgem....just life being reflected for you at the moment.
We do have quirky senses of humour those of us that work in the industry - think the show Six Foot Under, mainly for stress releif, however necrophilia...we just dont go there, not even jokingly...as I was trained to remember when I was at Mortuary Science school, the deceased is someones mother, father, lover, friend, sibling, boss etc and one day it could be you or your mother, father, lover, friend, sibling, boss...its a good way to remember how to treat people in life as well. ... Cheers | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/17/2008 1:58:49 AM | I have good friend with an in-operable aortic aneurysm and could die at anytime. Because of this he developed morbid sense of humour and we sometimes joke about having his bones carved into a chess set for his kids to play with. Me I'd like to have my skull cleaned and polished and kept on the mantle piece.
Is this sort of thing ever done and is it legal? If it is how would one go about having it done? cos my eldest son thinks it would be a cool idea. | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/17/2008 2:07:10 AM | ^^^ I agree.. does sound like a cool idea. But if someone does it..everyone wants to do it. Like taking your shirt off at work..you do it...next thing you know everyone is taking their shirts off...even the ladies...mayhem!
But seriously, why can't we have our own individual belief systems and rituals etc? Oh that's right, we're brain washed...keep forgetting.
I used to be a necrophiliac. But all the fun went out of it when some rotten **** split on me.
oh man, am I going to get some mileage out of that one. Bought tears to my eyes  | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/17/2008 2:13:48 AM | Oh yeah I didn't even think to ask that one, what about being skun and tanned to hang on the wall, make a lampshade etc? Look what you've gotten yourself into now Pooks lol
ronda :)
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Naamah
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Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 18 | |
| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/17/2008 2:15:30 AM | Pookie...I think this is a great idea for a thread. At times, friends have cautiously asked me questions about the more physical aspects of dying and death because I've seen it, so you are right in thinking it is an aspect of our existence that we are curious about. But many people are awkward and apologetic about that curiosity. We might want to ask things, but it's not the sort of thing you can just bluntly ask many people about...either they don't know anyway, or they do but it's considered inappropriate to ask them cos none of us want to to intrude on someone else's personal experience, or upset someone whose lost someone by asking lots of frank questions. And I think many people feel as if asking some stuff they wonder about would make them sound or seem "weird". You are in a very unique position of being someone people would feel less awkward to ask questions of, and of course you are able to provide accurate information in a professional way. Good on you for doing this.
One thing I wondered about the cremation side of things...I think you mentioned somewhere else that personal items can be cremated with a person. My husband had a piece of jewellery he wore around his neck (a metal charm on a leather strap) that he was particularly superstitious about never taking off. (He took it off at one stage, and then was diagnosed with his cancer, so I remember him saying he wasn't going to take it off ever again...one of those thoughts we get in our head sometimes that we know makes no sense but gives a sense of comfort.) Anyway, out of respect for him having said that, I of course wanted it left on him to be cremated with him. I also wanted his wedding ring to stay part of him. I told them that when they took him from here. But the funeral home sent the ring and the neck chain back to me in an envelope, separate to the ashes. They'd even cut the leather strap to get it off his neck. I was so p1ssed off. My brother called them for me and they said they can't include metal. I think you've said otherwise. There's nothing I can do about it now but I wondered why they might have done that if it's not normally a problem? | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/17/2008 2:29:49 AM | Lol some interesting posts being put up here..
In regards to Julianx and Rainbowskin, the bottom line is that as long as you let the Executor of your Will know of your intentions that you wish to have your bones turned into a chess set or skin into lampshade..then it can be done....morbid as it sounds it is not agains the law...but obviously planning and forethought must go into to it.
Example
If you die a unexpected deqth, your body will be automatically transferred to the Coroner for investigation/autopsy. During this time, your body becomes the property of the Coroner and accordingly your family/next of kin/ executor have no rites....try telling that to a bereaved family !!!. Once the body is released after autopsy and investigation, it is technically y released into the care of the Executor of the Will who then appoints a funeral director to take care of the funeral arrangements.
This is where many quarrels come into play.
For instance if you are married and you die, you would think that automatically your spouse is your next of kin and therefore responsible for your funeral/will/probate etc. this may not be the case. You can appoint another person to be your Executor say your son, and your son and his wishes override legally the rites of the spouse who has been left behind. Accordingly I have seen many quarrels, arguments and punchups on this matter. Do not assume anything prior to your death as you can leave behind a huge tangle of legal mess. Just because your married/defacto , all these legal relationships are overridden upon your death. It is the Executor who has the final say. If you die intestate (without a will) then the next of kin is the person will responsible for your remains being taken care of...and they are responsible for the debt of the funeral as well.....cant begin to tell you how many arguments Ive seen on this issue alone.
If you wish to have something unique done with your remains as stated above you should let your Executor know while your still breathing and if possible get it down in writing, apart from also stating it in your Will. Traditionally Wills are read long after the funeral has taken place and accordingly it may be too late to do with your remains what you wished. So the bottom line is, make your wishes known to many, but especially your Executor.... and do your kids a favour...make a Will, dont die intestate, you leave behind a lot of misery if you do...and update your Will...look at whats going on with Heath Ledger's Will, no Will equals major nitemare !!
Namaah ^^ will comment next break !!! cheers | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/17/2008 2:36:51 AM |
your intentions that you wish to have your bones turned into a chess set or skin into lampshade..then it can be done...
woohoo! (runs out to buy a will kit) cool huh Julian, we could be like matching bedside lamps, or thrown over the back of the couch, awesome 
thanks pooks | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/17/2008 3:00:44 AM |
woohoo! (runs out to buy a will kit) cool huh Julian, we could be like matching bedside lamps, or thrown over the back of the couch, awesome
Maybe my skull as the base for the lamp and your tats as the shade | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/17/2008 3:54:36 AM | I remember reading about a guy who had his fully tattooed back removed and tanned so his family would still have part of him.
Pookie, not upset over this at all.... all part of life! It was really a great service conducted how the deceased wanted with his songs and his family celebrating his life with the celebrant only threading it all together.
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/17/2008 5:12:16 AM | Dear Namaah
I was really appalled when I just came back and read your thread and pissed off for you as well. Blatantly untrue....anything can burn in a cremator barr titanium
Metal can be cremated...that is soft metal like wedding rings, chains etc and it makes me really sad that you were told otherwise.
Standard procedure is this.
When a mortician is faced with a deceased body which has jewellery on it, it is removed and returned to the funeral consultant who is dealing with family. This is often not a huge problem that they come across because most of the time people die in hospitals, nursing homes, homes, etc and the family if they are wanting the jewelery kept, remove the jewelery prior to the funeral assistants removing the body from place of death. But if the jewelery is still on the deceased, it is given to the funeral consultant who then gives it to the family who then advise if they wish to keep it or return it to be placed on the deceased.
At a funeral arrangement a consultant is most careful to broach this subject as lawsuits have been filed over wedding rings being burnt which should have been returned and or vice versa. It is notorised and diarised strictly on the funeral arrangement form so there is no possible squabble or misundnrstanding in the future. It is countersigned by the family. If jewelry is returned to the family is is all noted and signed for. In our industry, we do have to be careful. We do not note for instant that the deceased was wearing a gold coloured ring with white diamond......its is noted as one yellow coloured ring with a one white colored stone. Who are we to say its a diamond and its gold ?? and yes lawsuits have been issued and also funeral directors have been accused in the past of pinching real pieces of jewelery and replacing with false/costume pieces.
In your husband case, it would appear that the mortician did the rite thing in removing the items from your husband, giving them to your funeral consultant who must not have checked with you and reaffirmed that they were going with your husband on his journey. Accordingly the directors more than likely held onto them until your husband ashes returned to them and subsequently then gave you your husbands ashes and also his jewelery. Perhaps a simple mistake and I assuming on this scenario. I do know that traditionally we err on the side of caution, they would assume you wanted them, than for them to go with your husband...once burnt or buried, nothing can be done. The Health Department would never approve of a exhumation just for a piece of jewelery, sad but true.
I know how you must have felt Namaah, and its a great shame it happened. Perhaps it happened for a reason...I kept my husband wedding ring and had it made smaller and wear it on my pinkie (I bought another ring to give him for his final journey..no idea why I did that).......just a nicer reminder of him. Have you considered doing something like that ? I hope that bit of info is not too upsetting for you....I guess funeral directors are human too and make mistakes but its a mistake which could have been avoided and should have been. In our industry its notes and notes and notes, triple check EVERYTHING !!!
Namaah
Brisgemini
There the kind of funerals I love to hear about....thats fabulous, I hope for want of a better word you "enjoyed" yourself and this funeral truly reflected this persons life !!! | |
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