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| Freemasons
Posted: 4/17/2008 5:01:43 PM | I understand the freemasons have their own version of the bible, i have seen the front cover of one with the set square and compass on it.
Can anyone confirm this, and how does it differ from the king james bible? | |
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Posted: 4/17/2008 6:03:42 PM | Actually, they don't, no. When somebody joins up, they get to "swear in" on whatever holy book they choose, and most often, it seems it is the King James, actually.
The square and compass is just the symbol of the freemasons, and they tend to slap it on everything. Try googling or wikipedia-ing it for more info.
Cowboy | |
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Posted: 4/17/2008 6:26:24 PM | | Nope, it isn't their version. The Freemasons do print family Bibles and Bibles with instruction, history, etc. bound together with the KJV. Being a Freemason is not like being Catholic, Methodist, Mennonite, etc., you just have to have belief in a higher power and a few other things to be accepted as an apprentice. Being a Freemason is a great group of men who help their communities, brothers, families, etc. | |
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Posted: 4/17/2008 7:32:19 PM | | My Grandfather was a freemason... yet I don't know a whole lot about it, go figure, lol.... | |
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Posted: 4/17/2008 9:14:12 PM | | The cover of the Bible the Mason's use will be different. In the center of the outer front cover mine has a small square stamped picture of the Bible and an all seeing eye above it. The one I have, a Masonic Bible given to my Great grandmother from her son, my grandfather, in 1931 is a regular copy of the King James Version. They have some extra notes/comments in the back but it is a KJV none the less. | |
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Posted: 4/18/2008 4:34:46 AM | No... it's not their own special version of The Bible or anything like that; just the KJV.
When you first open that big hard-cover Bible, before you reach the biblical texts, they have a section with information on Freemasonry, a section which points out interesting things within the scriptures themselves, and a place where you can jot down your family tree.
After that section is the Biblical text... that's the "special version" of The Bible you see.
There's nothing special about it... except that it's heavy.
--Brandon | |
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Posted: 4/18/2008 9:13:34 AM | | First of all, the freemasons can use all kinds of religious books. In order to be a mason, you must have a belief in one God. So, a TORAH, New Testament, or a Quran can be used. The freemasons are often connected to those who fought in the Crusades that were known as the Knights Templar, the Wall of Solomon, Jewish mysticism etc... They do not have their own version of the Bible. | |
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Posted: 4/18/2008 1:36:17 PM | Seavoyage said:
First of all, the freemasons can use all kinds of religious books. In order to be a mason, you must have a belief in one God. So, a TORAH, New Testament, or a Quran can be used.
This is correct. At least officially, the one religious requirement that Masons require is to be a monotheist. Hence, some Lodges have Protestant Bibles on their altar, some have Hebrew Bibles, some have Qu'rans. Catholics are forbidden from becoming Masons per our own rule and for some historical reasons, which is one reason why we established the Knights of Columbus instead. Due to the French Revolution, the Lodges in France are allowed to be atheistic. | |
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Posted: 4/18/2008 4:45:59 PM |
the one religious requirement that Masons require is to be a monotheist
Not entirely accurate... you can believe in multiple dieties, but you must believe that only One existed before all others, and that only that One created the entire universe.
That God is called the GAOTU, or Great Architect of the Universe.
--Brandon | |
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Posted: 4/18/2008 5:06:25 PM | Great Architect of the Universe
Masons' begining lies in masonry and the skills used. This history is in some of the Bibles as well as the different degrees, funeral rites, etc. Not every Masonic Bible is identical. Some do have family pages, not all do. Some have the degrees and different rites. Some have the history. I would say Brandon has the appropriate wording. I said a higher power, but really GAOTU is the accurate wording. I have never read any book that has any exception for this. Of course I can only read English and only have Canadian and US relatives that are Freemasons, so it is possible, but from the books I have read from the begining, it doesn't seem likely. Morals & Dogma Scottish Rite and the Monitor are two of the best reads. | |
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Posted: 4/18/2008 9:01:26 PM | Being a Freemason is not like being Catholic, Methodist, Mennonite, etc., you just have to have belief in a higher power and a few other things [my italics] to be accepted as an apprentice. Being a Freemason is a great group of men who help their communities . . . - just em
> And a few other things, eh?
> OK, let's look at one Freemason in particular. Not your Entered Apprentice or your lowly humble types, but William Jefferson Clinton (slippery 'Bill' of White House scandal). Bill just happens to be a Freemason.
> For a group of men - and especially one from the upper stratosphere of this outfit - who testify that they believe in God and hold the Holy Bible to be sacred, yadda yadda, why would Bill, as an example, lie to Congress, lie to the American people, lie to his wife, and lie to God - all under oath? This in respect to his adultery and fornication with Monica Lewinsky. You will remember that debacle?
> We can expect lies and fornication and adultery from the lower types, those pagans and non-Christian types that everybody avoids with their noses clipped as they pass them, but for someone like the American President, and a Freemason! Why, it's unheard of. It goes against everything they stand for. It is morally repugnant. And yet there you have it - lies, lies and "I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky." More lies - all under oath.
> Of course because of his so-called charisma, his devilishly cute smile, his smart suits and expensive wristwatch, his fancy lifestyle, his flash car, his money in the bank, and his political involvement, Bill is forgiven. All is well. All is well.
> Notice how even at the depths of the scandal, when the pressure upon him was boiling hot, the general public, faced with the facts of his adultery and fornication, thought he was a helluva guy. Interesting. No matter how low they get, no matter how vicious their behaviour, all is forgiven, all is blessed by the duped and ever-ignorant public.
> Good on ya, Bill. What was that Holy Book that you read again? And eh, what oaths do you take? And who, exactly, is your God? An 'architect'? He has a name, you know. It's in the Bible. Remember - that book you probably haven't dusted down in years and have no intention of picking up.
> Just as a footnote, Aleister Crowley, 'the wickedest man in the world', to use his own description, was a 33degree Freemason, a master Satanist, a man who taught his followers how to sacrifice human beings to lower entities.
> As for Freemasons not being Catholics, Methodists, Mennonites, etc. I would point out that Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, was a Freemason, as was his brother, Hyrum, as was Brigham Young, second leader of the Mormon cult, as was Sidney Rigdon, an early leader, as was Heber C. Kimball (who "wished that all men were Freemasons"), as was Father Francisco Calvo, Jesuit Catholic priest who started Freemasonry in Costa Rica, as was Geoffrey Fisher, Archbishop of Canterbury 1945-1961, as was Norman Vincent Peale, another 33rd Degree Freemason, ex-Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of New York, Past Grand Prelate of the Knights Templar and Shriner.
> By the way, Just Em, I like your revealing photographs - especially the one in your close-to-the-bone bikini. You are like no Bible salesman I have ever seen. That is your profession, isn't it, the one you state in your profile?
> Best wishes - Soul Union. | |
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Posted: 4/18/2008 9:16:26 PM | I had heard they were originally the remnants of the purged Knights Templars, the Crusaders who had fought in the Holy Land against Saladin, etc. And eventually they were accused (falsely most likely-- like so many others) of "devil worship" (worshipping the "Baphomet" -- which was a goat's head, basically) by a certain Pope in conjunction with the French king. And they were rounded up (nearly all of them at least) and burned. This would have been in the 14th century or so I think, probably the early part of the 14th century. I've heard and read all kinds of things about them.
How about the US dollar bill?? With the trapezoidal shape and the all-seeing eye? Or the idea that if you look at the Pentagon, from above, you could trace the inverted pentagram (5-pointed star, upside down) out of it; the inverted pentagram is also a symbol of theirs, sometimes seen on car bumpers, etc, I think they call it the Order of the Eastern Star or something like that. What's with this?? Is this because , as they say, so many of the early American men , the "founding fathers" , were Masons, or ??? And why do some of them adopt Arabic-sounding names, wear the Turkish or Moroccan "fez" caps, and use Islamic imagery such as the scimitar (old-style "Saracen" crescent sword) ? These are the Shriners, as they're called. A type of Mason I think, correct? | |
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Posted: 4/18/2008 9:38:56 PM |
Just as a footnote, Aleister Crowley, 'the wickedest man in the world', to use his own description, was a 33degree Freemason, a master Satanist, a man who taught his followers how to sacrifice human beings to lower entities.
Just as a footnote, this indictment of Crowley is total malarkey.
Regarding his connection with Freemasonry however, from the Grand Lodge of British Columbia's website, which has a section which deals with dispelling popular myths and anti-masonic propaganda:
Aleister Crowley and Freemasonry
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Aleister Crowley, a brilliant student of symbolism and ritual, had at least four major contacts with Freemasonry as a complete body.
In 1900, while in Mexico, Crowley became involved with a Supreme Council of the Ancient and Accepted (Scottish) Rite. This period of Central American Craft Freemasonry has been described as a chaotic mess; masonic bodies springing up and dissolving within a matter of days. Crowley was supposedly initiated into the 33° of the Ancient and Accepted Rite, thus obtaining the title of Grand Inspector General. This title is actually one of administrative rank, and not of ritual degree. The 33° is styled Sovereign Grand Inspector-General and is sparingly conferred by the Supreme Councils of the recognised jurisdictions. There does not appear to be any record of this conferment other than his claim made in The Confessions of Aleister Crowley.
In about 1904 Crowley was initiated into Craft Freemasonry in Anglo-Saxon Lodge No. 343, recognized, as of 1964, under the jurisdiction of the Grande Loge Nationale Française in Paris as No. 103. At the time it was under the jurisdiction of the Grande Loge de France, and so was not recognised by the United Grand Lodge of England as a regular masonic body. He was initiated, passed and raised over a period of several months in 1904. It is suggested but unconfirmed that he was proposed by a country parson from Oxfordshire.
Finally, at around the 1910 period, came Crowley’s episode with John Yarker. Yarker was initiated on October 25, 1854 in Liberty Lodge No. 189, was a frequent writer on masonic matters, was a member of Quatuor Coronati Lodge No. 2076 (the premier lodge of masonic research), and had been involved, in 1871, with the setting up of a Grand Council in Manchester of the Ancient and Primitive Rite, a concatenation of the Ancient and Accepted, and the Rites of Memphis and Mizraim, chartered from the United States of America by Harry J. Seymour (these Egyptian rites were considered irregular by the Grand Orient of France, the first being labeled "dead" by Thevenot, the Grand Secretary of the Grand Orient of France, in a letter to the United Grand Lodge of England in 1872 and the latter being dissolved in 1817). This Grand Council was not recognised by the Supreme Council in Duke Street. St. James, who had expelled Yarker, established the Antient and Primitive Rite in Great Britain.
Towards the end of his life, Yarker was looking for someone to carry on the work of the A&P Rite in England, and decided on that person being Crowley. To this effect, he bestowed on Crowley, by post, the degrees of 33°, 90° and 95°; respectively, the Ancient and Accepted, Memphis and Mizraim. No evidence is available that the two ever met.
After Yarker’s death (which is reported in the Oriflamme, the then Ordo Templi Orientis newsletter, for 1913; and also marked by an obituary in Crowley’s publication, The Equinox), there was a meeting at Crowley’s apartment on the Fulham Road. H. Meyer was elected the new Grand Master General, and Crowley the Grand Administrator General, and also a Patriarch Grand Conservator, his status being elevated to 33°, 90° and 96°. Following this, Crowley did very little, if anything in relation to the Ancient and Primitive Rite, concentrating his "masonic" tendencies in the body of the Ordo Templi Orientis
In 1913, Crowley apparently wrote to the United Grand Lodge of England claiming his right to attend lodge meetings, and affiliate as a joining member. If any, the response would have been a rebuttal, due to the irregularity of his mother lodge. This correspondence is not extant; all that survives is Crowley’s draft, transcribed from shorthand and dated 1913.
The United Grand Lodge of England does not recognize Crowley as a member of the Craft. All his affiliations were with irregular bodies, and so they deny him recognition.
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Amended, with additional information, from a report by Matt D.A. Fletcher, London: 1994.
Further information
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1896/crowpage.html
Further reading:
Martin P. Starr, "Aleister Crowley: Freemason!" Ars Quatuor Coronatorum, Transactions of Quatuor Coronati Lodge No. 2078. Vol. 108, for the year 1995. ed. Robert A. Gilbert, P.M. Printed in Great Britain by Butler & Tanner Ltd.,: Frome and London. p. 150.
Regarding the charge of being a "master Satanist"... as if there is such a thing, Crowley would revel in the idea that gullible people would believe in the existence of such an office and hopefully pay him to be trained to one day occupy it, while others, like the poster being quoted will charge you money to find out how to avoid being stalked by one. Rubbish. If by "master Satanist" the poster means an occultist who believes differently than a Christian, then Crowley was and the world is replete with them - HEAD FER THE HILLS, MAW!
The last bit of nonsense, regarding human sacrifice, is the silliest bit of drivel, only propounded by the most ignorant, gullible and those so outside the loop of occult knowledge as to believe the most sensational of knowledge when the actually believe that Crowley literally meant that he sacrificed a child... oh man...it is to laugh.
Crowley is referring to something equally or perhaps even more repugnant to born-again Christian types...SEX MAGIC...Oh dear Lord Noooooo! And the death he refers to is "le petit mort" or the death of orgasm. Perhaps the propaganda was a preferable explanation to you Flanders types out there that like your enemies babies skulls dashed out on the stones, Old Testament style?
Tough darts.
Any more BS about the Masons anyone needs debunked? | |
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Posted: 4/18/2008 9:45:43 PM | Just as a footnote, this indictment of Crowley is total malarkey. - TheMadFiddler
> Thanks, Fiddler. It's good to hear others' opinions.
> "In 1934, Crowley was declared bankrupt after losing a court case in which he sued the artist Nina Hamnett for calling him a black magician in her 1932 book, Laughing Torso. In addressing the jury, Mr Justice Swift said: 'I have been over forty years engaged in the administration of the law in one capacity or another. I thought that I knew of every conceivable form of wickedness. I thought that everything which was vicious and bad had been produced at one time or another before me. I have learnt in this case that we can always learn something more if we live long enough. I have never heard such dreadful, horrible, blasphemous and abominable stuff as that which has been produced by the man Crowley.'"
> I guess Justice Swift was reading too much into it. He really should have kept his feet on the ground.
> Best wishes - Soul Union. | |
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Posted: 4/18/2008 9:48:14 PM | | How does one become a Mason ? I've heard it requires sponsorship, initially, and then a lot of memorization for certain rites, etc. ?? I have never known anyone (that I know of at least) who has been a Mason, no one in my family, etc. So it probably would be harder to get accepted. | |
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Posted: 4/18/2008 9:58:26 PM | Just as a footnote, Aleister Crowley, 'the wickedest man in the world', to use his own description, was a 33degree Freemason, a master Satanist, a man who taught his followers how to sacrifice human beings to lower entities.
Another great bull read would be about William Morgan.
Of course you could also discuss what really happen to Napolean...
Washington DC was designed by Masons and the cornerstone of the White House contains a time capsule, mind you this is by memory, but there was a Masonic Ceremony for the dedication of the building.
The founding fathers were indeed practicing Masons. The inaguration ceremony was decided upon at the last minute to resemble a Masonic Ceremony.
There are some really interesting stories about brother Masons during the Civil War.
Shriners are 32d Masons.
I have met a few Hirams in my life.
I have read quite a few books on Masons in my life.
Eastern Star, Jobs Daughters, and Demolay (sp?), are a few groups that are made of those related to a Mason.
I know by POF rules I am not supposed to put in an advertisement for what I do, so thank you for suggesting that people check my profile so they might be directed to the source of my knowledge about the Bible and Masonic books, besides my family being Masons for many generations.
Glad you like my bathing suit. I can't wait to do more swimming. I often take books to the beach with me to read too. It is important to me to be healthy inside and out.
As I am human and make mistakes, I try not judge anyone. I know that the Pope said he is doing what he feels is necessary to help remove those that may be hurting children. The school systems are removing teachers the same way. I can only pray for these people and for myself.
And if you trace the beginings of the Freemasons, you will find that their was a mason that contained much knowledge but was not treated by others as he should have been. It is an interesting story about doing the right thing. | |
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Posted: 4/18/2008 10:43:34 PM |
> Thanks, Fiddler. It's good to hear others' opinions.
> "In 1934, Crowley was declared bankrupt after losing a court case in which he sued the artist Nina Hamnett for calling him a black magician in her 1932 book, Laughing Torso. In addressing the jury, Mr Justice Swift said: 'I have been over forty years engaged in the administration of the law in one capacity or another. I thought that I knew of every conceivable form of wickedness. I thought that everything which was vicious and bad had been produced at one time or another before me. I have learnt in this case that we can always learn something more if we live long enough. I have never heard such dreadful, horrible, blasphemous and abominable stuff as that which has been produced by the man Crowley.'"
> I guess Justice Swift was reading too much into it. He really should have kept his feet on the ground.
> Best wishes - Soul Union.
Uh huh. He should have. He also was evidently Victorian in his morality and can't be faulted for being a prudish member of the British upper class establishment...
However the Court of Appeal later agreed that even though there was not to be a new trial that Crowley was given a bum deal and likely would have won on appeal.
I assume that Justice Swift's opinion is being levered here as a legal expert...or perhaps a literary critic? Are you familiar with the logical fallacy of appeal to authority? It would be relevant here if the matter under discussion were a legal question...but of course the matter was one of "black magic" and frankly by any modern standard of jurisprudence, Crowley would have won a libel case handily.
Do you have any actual evidence of Crowley's practice of human sacrifice or exhortations to others to do so? I can answer for you - no you don't because it doesn't exist in any of his teachings. Period. That is not opinion, it is common knowledge to anyone who has read the man's works or has a library card. The characterization of the man as a "master Satanist" is opinion, which you are entitled to, no matter how baseless it may be, or founded in religious bigotry. Otherwise, Crowley should otherwise go down in history as a religious fringe figure, writer of mediocre and sometime scatalogical poetry and compared to Hitler or Idi Amin, hardly evil, wicked, or Satanic in any real sense. | |
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Posted: 4/19/2008 5:22:24 AM |
How does one become a Mason ? I've heard it requires sponsorship, initially, and then a lot of memorization for certain rites, etc. ?? I have never known anyone (that I know of at least) who has been a Mason, no one in my family, etc. So it probably would be harder to get accepted.
Look in your local phone book. Find the nearest temple or lodge. Call them up and ask. That's the catch phrase some put on their vanity plates or bumper stickers: "2B1 ASK1".
And yes, sponsorship is required, but guys already in the lodge, after meeting you, can do that. And yes, there's a fair bit of memorization involved; Freemasonry is heavily steeped in tradition and ceremony.
Or so I hear ;-).
Cowboy | |
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Posted: 4/19/2008 5:25:22 AM |
Shriners are 32d Masons.
Shriners are only required to have achieved the three degrees of Freemasony, actually. So they are "just" Master Masons. There is no requirement to complete the 32 Degrees of the Scottish Rite to be a Shriner.
Cowboy | |
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Posted: 4/19/2008 7:46:45 AM | QUOTE: Look in your local phone book. Find the nearest temple or lodge. Call them up and ask. That's the catch phrase some put on their vanity plates or bumper stickers: "2B1 ASK1".
>>> Interesting. Thank you. | |
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Posted: 4/19/2008 9:06:50 AM |
There is no requirement to complete the 32 Degrees of the Scottish Rite to be a Shriner.
See, I am so human...should have called daddy or my bro on that one...oh well. Gould, Mackey and other authors from the 1800's don't write about the Shrine. So what I know of the Shrine is only based on my family and the men I know. I really try to be good and not ask questions. I think I know more than I should as it is, but hard not to read the books you sell.
I do so love those men for holding the circuses etc. to help support the Shriner's Hospital. So many families have been given help by these men.  | |
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Posted: 4/19/2008 10:44:30 AM |
I do so love those men for holding the circuses etc. to help support the Shriner's Hospital. So many families have been given help by these men.
The "Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the Mystic Shrine" (Shriners) is often viewed as something of a... "second childhood for Freemasons" ;-). A chance to goof around, have fun, ride little cars, and do great works.
I did a little looking, and it *did* used to be that a Shriner was a "33rd Degree". Now it's not.
And hey, questions are always welcome. It just might be that answers might not be available from the Mason himself; there are honor oaths taken that limit things of that nature.
But, hey, let's be realistic. There's not very much about the traditions and rites of Freemasonry that isn't exposed somewhere out here on the net. Just gotta be careful about which parts you choose to believe ;-).
Cowboy | |
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Posted: 4/19/2008 6:12:31 PM |
William Jefferson Clinton (slippery 'Bill' of White House scandal). Bill just happens to be a Freemason.
Why don't you do some research instead of lending your ear permanently to factless conspiracy theories???
He was a DeMolay... which is a Masonic-influenced youth organization... he never became a Freemason.
I am a DeMolay and we booted him from our senior membership because he violated our virtue of cleanliness.
And don't say "DeMolays are Freemasons" because we're not. If I want to be a Freemason, I have to apply.
So slick-willy isn't a Freemason and never was one.
--Brandon | |
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Posted: 5/5/2008 2:50:57 PM | Lol started off a whole debate about freemasonary now!
Well i know that a few presidents have been masons, and some prime ministers also, Winston Churchill was one. | |
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Posted: 5/5/2008 2:55:26 PM | | I seem to remember Aleister Crowley worked for the british intelligence agency at some point, he is also appears on the front cover of the beatles sergent peppers lonely hearts band , if you look hard enough! very strange indeed........ | |
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