| Helping a friends escape the "toxic relationship" cycle
Posted: 4/18/2008 8:43:32 PM | I am seeking advisement on something that is near and dear to me on behalf of a friend whom I think the world of. It's a guy in his mid twenties with a heart of sheer gold and a personality that if unbridled would make him the catch of the century. He had been a 'good guy', waiting until he found someone who he could commit to, lost his virginity to her in his later years (relatively speaking), and she screwed him over big time. The end result? Damaged goods! He's still a great guy, and not jaded towards woman (which is rare considering what he's gone through). He now has immense self confidence issues, and as a result hasn't really met too many women. He's on a dating site, met one girl in particular, and there is absolutely no question that she's toxic for him -- she's got more issues than he does and their relationship would be nothing more than a very clinical codependency. I have all the time in the world for this guy, and as such I talk to him about relationships quite openly, from the heart, and try to show him that its okay to keep your options open until you find someone who is worth settling down with. Another good friend and I have started taking him out to watch us interact with other women, but this girl seems to have a grip on him in a few short weeks. I fully appreciate that some lessons have to be left up to fate, but having said that I would love to be able to provide enough insight in ways that would avoid him from paying the "experience fee" a second time and really getting destroyed in another bad relationship. My other friend, who is also interested in his wellbeing, is a bit more direct and uses male bravado to embarrass him out of being a "P*$$y". I don't agree with the approach, thinking that you can catch more flies with honey that with shyt -- and don't go about it that way. Personally, I think that the approach is to get him comfortable enough in his own skin to realize that he's a great guy and once he feels this, other women will see it and he'll be able to pick from a broader range of girls rather than the first one who shows any interest.
Has anyone had friends like this that they were able to turn around (even a little) before they got creamed in another bad relationship? How'd you go about it? | |
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| Helping a friends escape the toxic relationship cycle
Posted: 4/18/2008 8:48:19 PM | Nope, I only know everyone I know that is damaged. Life is like a crackhead shipping plates from a factory to your house, it gets beat up a little bit.
So, the next part is to just live life. You buddy will either snap out, step up, or let some typical women pretty much suck the soul out of his man body.
Hell, if he is a real man, he needs to go to a Cathouse and have done with it.
Let this old boy live life the old fashioned way: You do it.
Helping him is only useful if (A)he listens and (B)wants help.
You might find when it is all said and done, he will show back up ASKING you for help, because he happened to remember a dude like you that was RIGHT, way back when, when he wouldn't listen.
I never did this. They asked, I offered advice, and I left it alone. They either try what I say, or don't, either way, their choice and not mine. | |
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| Helping a friends escape the toxic relationship cycle
Posted: 4/18/2008 8:52:14 PM | You can't help them unless they want to be helped.
The toxic relationship cycle is a mix of CHOICE and training.
You are trained by your parents in how to handle relationships.
You are trained by your parents in how to choose a partner. (whether they want to take credit for that or not...)
You can CHOOSE to do things differently, but you have to want to... | |
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| Helping a friends escape the toxic relationship cycle
Posted: 4/18/2008 9:01:47 PM | While I think it's nice that you are trying to help your bud, I wonder how you have ascertained that the woman he is talking to is "toxic" to him? Is it because of where he is at since his breakup or because of where she is at?
I believe that friends are in our lives to care and it is their caring that is our strength. By insisting that he forego his interest in the woman he is talking to, you are trying to take on another role in his life other than friendship. You are almost (not quite but almost) conveying that you feel he is not competent to make his own decisions and if he picks up on that, I doubt you will stay friends long.
His journey in life... like yours, like mine... is his. The legacy of pain, heartache or disappointment is knowledge about ourselves... If there is something he needs to learn about himself in being hurt a few times, you are doing him no favors to stand in his way. Instead, being there for him while he stumbles and learns to run, is what friendship is truly about. | |
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| Helping a friends escape the toxic relationship cycle
Posted: 4/18/2008 9:05:13 PM | My first question would be has he asked for help ???
If he hasn't, let him be. Some lessons have to be learned the hard way, when you are ready.
If he has, I would suggest therapy.
Co-dependency, of any nature, has deeper seeded issues than you see on the surface. Obviously, these women are filling a need for him, otherwise he would not continue to seek them out.
A common denominator in most of these situations appears to be low self esteem.
Yes, I have had friends in situations like this.
I have never passed comment or judgement on their situation.
I have listened while they b!tched bided my time until they were ready to make a change.
I have a dear friend who was involved in a physically and mentally abusive situation.
She married this man and had 3 children with him.
She left him 3 or 4 times before she made the final break.
I have since asked her if it would have made a difference if I had said or done something.
Her answer was an adamant 'no'.
She had simply needed to figure things out for herself.
I have another friend that has spent 50 years like it.
She is one of the nicest people you could ever meet.
He has cheated and abused her emotionally from the very beginning of their relationship.
She moans and complains, has left a couple of times, but ALWAYS returns.
Some people never learn. 
Hope that your friend wakes up and sees what you see is happening !!!
Edit: Great post Silken Fire !!!
So VERY true !!! | |
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| Helping a friends escape the toxic relationship cycle
Posted: 4/18/2008 9:27:05 PM | A few clarification points:
Silken Fire -- My assessment of their relationship is based on information he shared during his asking me for advice about what to do with this girl. I won't put his business in the street, but it is because she's not comfortable enough with herself to bring anything to a relationship other than needs for fulfillment, coupled with the fact that he doesn't know what he wants. First he said that he didn't like her (to me, quite honestly). Then he said she was pretty in her face and that she was a bit overweight, but that there was that X factor -- meaning he was physically attracted to her. Then came the trips from 2 hours away to his house to curse him out and lay in his bed crying with him either behind her sheepishly or on his own couch. They haven't slept together - in case anyone thinks to ask, but they've "explored" each other, whatever your imagination allows that to mean. I've yet to meet the girl, and have invited him and her out with me and my other friend, and she's been very apprehensive to do so. From the information I have, this isn't healthy.
As far as inserting my will into his life, I'm not doing this (yes, this is debatable). He's asked me for my opinion, and I have been less opinionated and have only offered advisement by bringing him to think about the decisions he makes before he acts, and putting forth the things that he's shared with me (both good and bad things about the girl, and himself). I haven't told him to DTB (Dump That B****) or anything like this, although I personally believe that some time apart from her is better for him and her especially while they're new to each other and it won't hurt as much today as it will six months from now.
Malley --
He's already in therapy, which is in part why I don't make strong suggestions about what he should do that doesn't involve him looking at his options and making informed decisions that are good for him. I don't want to derail anything he's getting from therapy -- I don't want to pass judgment and am truly hoping that I'm not giving off that vibe.
I think part of being a good friend is caring enough about someone to go through the journey with them -- this is why I am as selective with my friends as I am. Just as you end up taking on your partner's baggage, when you care about someone and they're going through a tough patch, it can affect you as well. I look at this guy and see the pain that I'd dealt with when I was younger and going through things like what he's been through. I'm not trying to steer the bus for him, but hope to be able to be insightful enough to help him look at the map once in a while. Is that too much? | |
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| Helping a friends escape the toxic relationship cycle
Posted: 4/18/2008 9:50:18 PM |
My assessment of their relationship is based on information he shared during his asking me for advice about what to do with this girl. I won't put his business in the street, but it is because she's not comfortable enough with herself to bring anything to a relationship other than needs for fulfillment, coupled with the fact that he doesn't know what he wants.
Just a few more thoughts following your clarification OP... It sounds like these 2 people have a few common denominators to me. You say that she is not "comfortable enough with herself..." Your friend doesn't sound very comfortable with himself either and that sure isn't uncommon after a bad breakup but in this, they sound like they are more alike than they are dissimilar. You say that he "doesn't know what he wants"... In his mid-twenties, he is not a baby or a teenager but... he isn't far enough away from those years to have a lot of experience in figuring out what "he wants". THAT, OP is what his relationships (both good and bad) will teach him... what he wants...
As far as inserting my will into his life, I'm not doing this (yes, this is debatable). He's asked me for my opinion, and I have been less opinionated and have only offered advisement by bringing him to think about the decisions he makes before he acts, and putting forth the things that he's shared with me (both good and bad things about the girl, and himself).
To me OP, that is precisely what an awesome friend would do... When asked for your opinion, you have taken the opportunity to help him develop his own opinion with your "bringing him to think about the decisions he makes before he acts". I think true friends don't just sit like a boulder in a field when a friend comes to them to think through something out loud. Asking open-ended questions that make him think, mirroring his thoughts back to him so he can hear how he sounds, brainstorming ALL of his options with him... these are the things good friends do. Cudos to you for that OP... 
I'm not trying to steer the bus for him, but hope to be able to be insightful enough to help him look at the map once in a while. Is that too much?
Nope... it's not. You are empowering your friend when you allow him to steer his own bus... but we all "get by with a lil help from our friends".  | |
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| Helping a friends escape the toxic relationship cycle
Posted: 4/18/2008 10:23:15 PM | You seem like a good friend, and I applaud you for seeking advice to help your friend.
My advice to you is to do whatever you can in way of positive enforcement of him as a person. Help him realize his self worth, help to build up his self confidence. Tell him and show him what is and isn't acceptable in relationships. Listen to him when he talks about his relationship and give positive advice without slamming the woman. Even if the woman has issues and doesn't act right, she too is a human being and life may have dealt her a rough hand and she may need compassion, understanding, and help just as your friend does. And maybe she doesn't have a good friend like you, to help her out. Also, often when friends or family slam a significant other, it puts the person you know on the defensive and if there's strong feelings there, it will not only blind them to the negative things being said about the person they are involved with, but it can cause them to put up a wall between the friends and family and push them deeper into a possibly unhealthy relationship.
Keep being there for your friend and often remind him that he doesn't have to settle and that whoever the girl for him is, she'll be a compliment to his life and she'll help make it better, not the opposite. And make sure he knows too, that if he ever wants advice or help when it comes to considering leaving a bad relationship, that you're there for him however he needs.
Hoping for good things for your friend! | |
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| Helping a friends escape the toxic relationship cycle
Posted: 4/18/2008 11:47:30 PM | Damn Queen Crimson, I was staving off the use of Latin/Greek words for later, when my vituperance ran dry..........
Oh well.........NOTE TO SELF: Use Mythological references from here on out during metaphor construction. Also, remember to not use Shakespeare, he sucks. | |
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| Helping a friends escape the toxic relationship cycle
Posted: 4/19/2008 12:02:33 AM | | Many of them just need to be kicked in the butt. They are the one's who contribute to the "bad" relationships. So can't blame all the "bad" relationships on the other person. Only people that do that just like playing the victim of their own dramas. First they need to start taking responsibility and admitting they are in part the cause of the relationship ending. Many go into relationships wanting it, but go in half heartedly. Then they let fears of past "bad" experiences cloud everything and end up ending the relationship. Others try to maintain their emotional guards the whole time and do all kinds of stuff like making up lies to twist everything around to make the other person look like a "bad" person so they can escape the relationship without much emotional hurt and continue on to the next viscious cycle. I say don't give a second thought to the "bad" what ifs that could happen... especially basing the person off something that happened in the past with someone else. We are all different and it's not the same person so don't generalize everyone like that. Don't give those "bad" what ifs a second thought if you don't want them to happen because the more you focus on them, the more likely they will come into the relationship... | |
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| Helping a friends escape the toxic relationship cycle
Posted: 4/19/2008 12:56:12 AM | Dont, unless your qualified, referrals are needed, support is great, point out the problem and recomend help be sought.........
Its a serious problem with many under lying issues and friends are not qualified, the best help is to point the issues out and support them into councilling and appropriate therapy.
you no sooner help them out of one and they will create all over again, if they dont seek help and break theit own patterns of behaviour...... It can take a long long time | |
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| Helping a friends escape the toxic relationship cycle
Posted: 4/19/2008 1:00:48 AM | | As far as giving advice goes you can give it, I do it on here all the time, but the truthis mos tof the people asking need therapy and suppport in getting that and seeing they feel comfortable in taking that step is the best friend you can be, make the appointment with some who is good in this area near you both and take him, it snot always expensive and if you lokk hard enough charity organisations can hold some great meetings and offer free councilling, try looking on the net and shopping around | |
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| Helping a friends escape the toxic relationship cycle
Posted: 4/19/2008 3:51:27 PM | Well Tigerlily I am a certified "bartender style" relationship and life advice counsellor . I take on board the concept of not putting him or the girl down, and guess what I'm hearing overwhelmingly is to do nothing different than what I am already. He's already doing some sort of counselling, and I doubt that an intervention would help the situation any so I'll just have to toughen up (from a personal standpoint) and continue to do what I'm doing. It not easy watching someone you care about go down a path that is bound to end in pain -- but as many of you have shared, its part of someone's personal development and I can't stifle that.
Thanx all~
BTH | |
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| Helping a friends escape the toxic relationship cycle
Posted: 4/19/2008 4:42:07 PM | Your friend sounds like he has a big heart and see's beyond all the things that you cannot. I am in a relationship and some tell me that it is unhealthy. I agree with some things that are said to me (however, feel that for some in a new relationship things begin rocky and then get better once boundaries are established). Relationships take time. In a new one both have to get to know one another and their likes and dislikes. I don't feel one should judge so quickly in the beginning because we all are different and what is okay for one, may not be for another. If your friend has not been in many relationships, then he may have a more open mind then some of us do and feel like things are fine because he has had nothing else to compare his too. And remember, that just because you feel your friend is not in a good relationship, does not mean that this is true. I think that my relationship is unhealthy to some degree right now and this is okay. It is new and things take time to sift through. Perhaps your pal is sifting through the issues and trying to make it work. In a relationship both do not have to agree on everything, unless it plays a big part in making the relationship sink or swim. If a compromise cannot be made then one party needs to sacrifice something or move on. Just like in a relationship, if your friend decides he wants to be with this new lady, then you will need to accept this even though you do not agree with it. Your friend may even see what you see and know that it is not good. Still, the negative could be viewed as very minimal and worth it, to be with the lady behind it all. In my relationship I know that there are things I will and will not be able to compromise on. If my partner cannot sacrifice certain things for me and I cannot sacrifice certain things for him, then the only other option left would be the exit door. I am sure your friend has things that they will not budge on and will make or break the relationship..give it time, you may find that he is meeting someone nice, or you may find that he feels he deserves more and thanks to your friendship he realizes this with time...put shit in one hand and want in the other and see which builds up the faster--what you want is different from what your friend wants and all you can do is be there for him and respect his decision in whatever it is he decides. I do not know what kind of issue this gal has that you are talking about, but I do know that we all have issues in our life...hopefully whatever your pal is dealing with will not push him further behind in his self-confidence issues..good lucks | |
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| Helping a friends escape the toxic relationship cycle
Posted: 4/24/2008 11:30:31 AM | | look brother no matter what things you set up for him he will not change.it has to come from within.let me tell you belivev it are not some women and men like this abuse are they wouldnt continue to do it.look leave him alone and when he wants to talk about it refuse to then maybe he will get the message good luck. | |
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