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Posted: 4/20/2008 10:25:09 PM | I have a problem. I'm not sure how to deal with the more modern relationships.
I met a very nice young lady, who frankly is far younger than I would have likely
persued had I known her age, and she does not want to be in a relationship, but she
sort of does???
I met a girl, had a great time, wanted to spend more time with her etc.
After a very short time, she wanted to progress much faster on the physical intimacy
scale than Im used to. Now I admit to being very conservative in some ways.
I happen to believe that certain things should only be done with potential long term
partners with the hope of building towards something permanent.
She does not want a real committed ltr because that's pretty much all she has been
in for the last few years. That said, she has agreed to monogamy and is willing to
let me know before she moves on, and move on before she gets intimate with anyone
else. I considered this essential and anything else kind of not so good.
OK, actually I consider anything else down right nasty. The problems with STD's
being the most obvious, but simple emotional issues tied with respect are also very
important here. Really, I think she is mainly concerned with a relationship being too
much work. She has school and has been working hard to pay for it. I think she is
ultimately looking for someone who can her space when she needs it.
So, what kind of relationship do I actually have here?
Honestly I need the practice at interactions with the opposite sex, as I am still
somewhat of a geek and not too far removed away from the character Steve Carell
played on the 40 year old virgin. Think about putting "it" on the pedestal and you
kind of know what I mean. I understand certain things on an intellectual level, but
not really as much on the emotional level.
I think the practice will do me good, as long as we are both being open and honest.
The thing is, I am ultimately looking for something permanent, and I would much
rather have a chance at starting a family sooner rather than later and I'm not sure if
I have a realistic chance at such a thing growing here.
The obstacles are mainly the following.
1) The age difference is enough to kind of bother us both. I'm 42, she is 22.
I thought she was a bit older, she thought I was a bit younger. Thankfully, I'm still
quite a bit younger than her father (57) otherwise it would just be too weird.
We are OK for now, but I'm not sure if its going to crop up again.
The reality is, most people are still changing in their early 20's. She happens to
be somewhat brilliant, and her intelligence is one of the many reasons I'm
attracted to her. That and her smile and the fact she loves to read as much as I
do.
2) School. Right now she is planning to work the next year, locally, to save up for
school plus get some real world experience using her degree in Math to get a job in
a lab or something. She really believes that she wants to become a Dr, but
considering that is not what she started out to become, it is open to change.
In any case, depending where she needs to go for school kind of changes the
dynamic for anything permanent. And then, assuming she is close by during
schooling, her residency then becomes an issue along the same lines.
My friends and family mostly think I should relax for a change and go with the flow.
I'm trying, but I'd also like to nail down my responsibilities and figure out what is
reasonable to expect from her, and what I need to do to make this work. | |
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| I'm not sure where to go here.
Posted: 4/21/2008 5:43:00 AM |
I have a problem. I'm not sure how to deal with the more modern relationships. First of all, it's not "a more modern relationship" that matters. It's YOUR relationship, this is what is important. If you have a rule book, please burn it. Be you and relate to her. The two of you will have a unique way of relating to each other that will either work or it won't. Who gives a damn what anyone else thinks or is doing?
1) The age difference is enough to kind of bother us both. I'm 42, she is 22.
I thought she was a bit older, she thought I was a bit younger. Thankfully, I'm still
quite a bit younger than her father (57) otherwise it would just be too weird.
We are OK for now, but I'm not sure if its going to crop up again.
The reality is, most people are still changing in their early 20's. She happens to
be somewhat brilliant, and her intelligence is one of the many reasons I'm
attracted to her. That and her smile and the fact she loves to read as much as I
do. When I was 22 I met my first boyfriend, who was 36. I looked younger than my age and he looked older so the difference was accentuated in the same way as yours is lessened. We were both academics, but intelligence doesn't necessarily equate to maturity or to the ability to be happy in a relationship, so don't over-rate it. The age gap didn't bother me as I'd never been interested in getting involved with a boy my age, but it did bother him, mostly because he thought boys my age should be more attractive for me than he was.
The reason why my relationship didn't work out wasn't the age difference. We broke up after about a year because he got so absorbed in writing a book that he had no time to even phone me for a few minutes and I decided that if he was going to ignore me then I may as well not be there. In some ways we were both too immature. We met up 7 years later and tried again; and we were pretty happy together for a couple of years this time; but in the end my kind of love wasn't enough for him. Anyway, the age difference was not the problem and I think you should set it aside. Issues of health related to age may arise later, but Love can potentially overcome these hurdles.
2) School. Right now she is planning to work the next year, locally, to save up for
school plus get some real world experience using her degree in Math to get a job in
a lab or something. She really believes that she wants to become a Dr, but
considering that is not what she started out to become, it is open to change.
In any case, depending where she needs to go for school kind of changes the
dynamic for anything permanent. And then, assuming she is close by during
schooling, her residency then becomes an issue along the same lines. Funny similarity here - my background is maths too.
Her relationship with you will affect her career/school and the feeling of "holding her back" is one that I do think you should consider. My boyfriend did, but his only way of considering it unfortunately, seemed to be mentioning it to me, and I was on a theme of being reassuring and self-sacrificing so you can imagine that it was pretty ineffectual.
Career is one of the things you do need to give space to. It is common for women (and men, but less so) to give up career opportunities in order to invest time and energy in their relationships. How supportive can you be? If she does a PhD or gets into research do you have an appreciation for the fact that this is likely to take over most of her life? Do you love her enough to be supportive about that or do you need attention to the extent that you would expect or allow her to let her studies suffer because of you?
How flexible are you? Would you move to be with her? Would you give up your career to be with her? If you wouldn't, if you find some reason why you "can't" then my suggestion is that you may not be sufficiently selfless to be with her without holding her back and perhaps you should wait a while until she's decided for herself, what she wants most out of life, rather than push yourself into her equations. If you aren't her no.1 priority right now and she cares about her career, then honestly, I think you should be very reserved in your relationship with her and allow it to peter out gently when she goes away to study. I hated my first boyfriend's book for the way it came between us, but in the long term it did give me freedom that I needed at that age, to look around and decide what I wanted out of life, without having the responsibility and limitation that comes to serious-minded young women when they are in a relationship. I hope that sharing my experiences gives you a helpful alternative perspective. | |
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Posted: 4/21/2008 6:41:00 AM | I'd have all kinds of issues with that age gap...but you (and she) must decide what's best...for yourselves, and for the relationship... | |
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Posted: 4/21/2008 7:22:06 AM | Now I admit to being very conservative in some ways. I happen to believe that certain things should only be done with potential long term partners with the hope of building towards something permanent.
She does not want a real committed ltr ...The thing is, I am ultimately looking for something permanent, and I would much rather have a chance at starting a family sooner rather than later and I'm not sure if I have a realistic chance at such a thing growing here. ... The age difference is enough to kind of bother us both. I'm 42, she is 22. ...
Honestly I need the practice at interactions with the opposite sex ...
The first thing that struck me about your relationship is the difference in values and goals. The second thing that struck me is the difference in age, which suggests a disparity in life experience.
You have a (biologically) realistic chance of having a family with her, whether it is planned or not. If that happens, this family is likely to begin in a "broken" state. She is telling you that she is not ready for a long-term relationship. Listen to her.
Instead, you can practice relating to women who share your life goals and values. In that way, your practice will be practical, and I think you will enjoy it more in the long run. In other words, if you practice relating to a woman who is wrong for you, what will you learn from that?
Sex might be sweet with a 22-year-old, but if you want more from a woman, then I encourage you to wait for someone more compatible. | |
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| I'm not sure where to go here.
Posted: 4/21/2008 7:26:10 AM | she just wants to be your "friend"... so whats wrong with that? be sure to wear protection at all times for STD's as well as unplanned preg. Many of the young ones like the idea of having a baby by an older man who can give them more child support.
Just be sure you niot only wear your own protection but also bring it.
Don't plan for a long relationship with her, she will be gone on to the next one in a flash. | |
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Posted: 4/21/2008 10:50:36 AM |
Her relationship with you will affect her career/school and the feeling of "holding her back" is one that I do think you should consider. My boyfriend did, but his only way of considering it unfortunately, seemed to be mentioning it to me, and I was on a theme of being reassuring and self-sacrificing so you can imagine that it was pretty ineffectual.
I don't consider it a sacrifice to let
her have the time she needs to do the things she wants. I got into this knowing that
school must be priority number one, especially this early in our relationship.
Career is one of the things you do need to give space to. It is common for women (and men, but less so) to give up career opportunities in order to invest time and energy in their relationships. How supportive can you be? If she does a PhD or gets into research do you have an appreciation for the fact that this is likely to take over most of her life? Do you love her enough to be supportive about that or do you need attention to the extent that you would expect or allow her to let her studies suffer because of you?
It is way too early to talk about love. I've known her for but a few weeks and I know
enough to know the difference between desire and love. Being supportive is easy.
Even in the middle of her study time, she is smart enough to give herself a break
now and again, so I don't see that as an obstacle. School is just like a job, sometimes
you need to put in the overtime.
How flexible are you? Would you move to be with her? Would you give up your career to be with her? If you wouldn't, if you find some reason why you "can't" then my suggestion is that you may not be sufficiently selfless to be with her without holding her back and perhaps you should wait a while until she's decided for herself, what she wants most out of life, rather than push yourself into her equations. If you aren't her no.1 priority right now and she cares about her career, then honestly, I think you should be very reserved in your relationship with her and allow it to peter out gently when she goes away to study. I hated my first boyfriend's book for the way it came between us, but in the long term it did give me freedom that I needed at that age, to look around and decide what I wanted out of life, without having the responsibility and limitation that comes to serious-minded young women when they are in a relationship. I hope that sharing my experiences gives you a helpful alternative perspective.
I'm fairly flexible, but moving is not something I can see doing all that easily.
Moving would entail giving up friends, family, and a very good job.
It would be one thing to do so for a spouse, but not simply for something with
"potential". This is reinforced by the fact that local opportunities that fit her
current goals are available.
Again, it is a bit too early to seriously consider that aspect of the relationship.
On the same basis, I completely expect her to put her future plans before me, its only
reasonable.
I fully appreciate your taking the time to share your experiences with me.
I think the posts I've read have more or less reinforced my wait and see attitude.
At the moment, she is looking at working locally for about a year. Depending
on what happens there, I might be looking at whole new set of equations.
Kay9876
The first thing that struck me about your relationship is the difference in values and goals. The second thing that struck me is the difference in age, which suggests a disparity in life experience.
Actually, we both have similiar goals and values. The difference is a matter of timing.
We both want a family and a rewarding career. The difference is, I've already have
my education completed and enough work experience to earn a good living.
You have a (biologically) realistic chance of having a family with her, whether it is planned or not. If that happens, this family is likely to begin in a "broken" state. She is telling you that she is not ready for a long-term relationship. Listen to her.
Agreed. This is why one uses birth control.
Instead, you can practice relating to women who share your life goals and values. In that way, your practice will be practical, and I think you will enjoy it more in the long run. In other words, if you practice relating to a woman who is wrong for you, what will you learn from that?
Sex might be sweet with a 22-year-old, but if you want more from a woman, then I encourage you to wait for someone more compatible
Again, we share the same goals and values, it's a matter of timing.
Spending time with the opposite sex has often been ellusive for me.
I have found a number of very nice women who just did not share my values
or share that certain spark with me. Having found a spark, I wish to do my best
to allow it a shot at becoming more.
As to sex, well, sex with a woman who is enthusiatic, responsive, and appreciative
is good regardless of her age. I think guys obsessed with youth are idiots. My goal
has always been to find someone mature enough to know her goals in life, and young
enough that she can realistically have a family with me and not just because her alarm
clock is going off. I'm trying to avoid the "broken" situation as best I can. | |
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Posted: 4/21/2008 12:55:01 PM | Well I think you think too much!
Relax and allow things to develop naturally. Personally speaking, I have never been able to separate love and sex..well I never really tried
So anyhoo just enjoy your time together and give your brain a break willya?! ...And another thing you seem to be on the road to self sabotage...detour! | |
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Posted: 4/21/2008 2:44:34 PM | Actually, we both have similiar goals and values.
It was my understanding that you are more conservative regarding sex than she is. You came to an agreement regarding the issue, but at its core, you and she are not entirely on the same page.
She does not want a "real committed long-term relationship" (your words), but has agreed to be monogamous until she no longer wants to be with you. You, on the other hand, stated that "certain things should only be done with potential long term partners with the hope of building something permanent." These are inconsistencies in values and goals.
Birth control is not always effective, and it's not unusual for "accidents" to happen.
... It's a matter of timing.
Timing is very important in a developing relationship. When the timing is off, things can work in the short-term, but they usually fail in the long-term.
Spending time with the opposite sex has often been ellusive for me. I have found a number of very nice women who just did not share my values or share that certain spark with me. Having found a spark, I wish to do my best to allow it a shot at becoming more.
I could be wrong, but you seem to be rationalizing in order to pursue this "spark," in spite of serious red flags. | |
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Posted: 4/21/2008 4:46:09 PM |
he got so absorbed in writing a book that he had no time to even phone me for a few minutes and I decided that if he was going to ignore me then I may as well not be there
You might be surprised to hear that writing a book can be extremely hard and take all one's energy away, including energy to call loved ones. This does not mean the love has stopped. I'm sorry but that relationship ended because you were childish. | |
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Posted: 4/21/2008 6:13:09 PM | | I am friends with a man who was forty-one when he married his wife, who was twenty-one. She was pregnant when they got married. Not his child, but he raised her anyway. His wife filed for divorce this year. He is sixty years old. She is in mid-life crisis. He took the best years of her life, only to be left alone, almost bankrupt, and still in love with her. It is very sad. They had some good years.... at least in his mind. But in her mind, she was never happy. She married him out of convenience, and had about six affairs during the marriage. He has all gray hair, and she is prim and proper in her prime. She does not want to be with an old man. | |
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Posted: 4/21/2008 6:47:17 PM | | The bottom line is that you want to make it permanent and exclusive and she doesn't. She isn't yet ready for that. This is a BIG red flag. | |
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Posted: 4/21/2008 6:50:33 PM | DUDE>............Welcome to the 2.0 Dating/FWB/NSA Relationship REAL WORLD.
My MAN! You now get to learn how fried it is now.
My advice, seriously, no joking: Ride the roller coaster until she either burns out, or hits the road. Have FUN with it!
Your "peeps" (I think they call it, so Schwag-tastical) are right:
Little Grasshopper, Bruce Lee once said fighting styles are unique, and that you don't always have to be a brick wall and get hit, because you will not change your game.
Flow like the water, Young Jedi.
This is one story you will live to tell again, and probably enjoy it.
Simple is as simple does. Keeping it simple means complications are less likely to occur.
Dude, you rock! I am glad to hear someone else is having some luck, Real World Style. | |
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Posted: 4/21/2008 7:44:34 PM | @super_moose -- I know how much it takes to write a book! His attitude toward it was not normal. Lol. Perhaps I was childish, but at 22 I wanted more from a boyfriend than he wanted to give - like someone who was there. The book thing was not everything, just the last straw. Not sure what your beef is on digging at me - did you lose someone through not being able to get your priorities straight too? Anyway, this isn't your thread, or mine, so it's irrelevant.
OP, I think that as it is just potential, you should back off. The main potential is for you or any romantic relationship) to get in the way of her being free to choose what to do. You don't have particular strong feelings for her, no strong emotional rapport, connection, no love, just a strong attraction i.e. lust and I think for this reason it might be best for you to back off. But I doubt you'll listen to that, it seems that you want to be told to relax and go with the flow and that too might be okay, no-one can see the future, after all. | |
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Posted: 4/21/2008 9:05:37 PM | I have to agree with Indigo... your thinking waaaaaaaay too much! Enjoy what time you have with this lady and don't take it too seriously, she isn't! A fwb is just that, be safe if your both not 'exclusive' and let her grow up a little. Who knows? Perhaps it will evolve into something else, but I doubt it.
Sounds like your satisfying a 'need' and as long as your both agreeable, enjoy it for what it is. | |
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Posted: 4/21/2008 11:30:29 PM |
OP, I think that as it is just potential, you should back off. The main potential is for you or any romantic relationship) to get in the way of her being free to choose what to do. You don't have particular strong feelings for her, no strong emotional rapport, connection, no love, just a strong attraction i.e. lust and I think for this reason it might be best for you to back off. But I doubt you'll listen to that, it seems that you want to be told to relax and go with the flow and that too might be okay, no-one can see the future, after all.
It's not that I don't have feelings for her, it's just I want to make sure I do not
delude myself. There IS a connection here. We really enjoy each others
company and I'm talking beyond the make out sessions, thanks.
I mean if some guy told you he loved you after a couple of dates you would
think he needed his head examined, right? (Or he is just trying to get in your pants.)
I know what she says she wants. I also know her history enough to have a good idea
of what she actually wants. Ultimately, she wants to have the freedom to move on
without guilt if her career path goes in a certain direction. She wants to keep it
light, but is not really against the concept of a relationship, only that she wants to
make sure that she does not have to make all the sacrifices in said relationship.
She had a few guys who were to say the least immature, which is not a huge surprise
given her age and their ages. They were selfish. What I can and will give her is
honesty, honor, empathy, respect and affection. Ultimately, its my goal to ruin
her for other guys, become the measuring stick where all other guys will come up
short. :-) (So far I seem to be doing a good job.) 
I'm going to do my best to keep my eyes open and not try to make something to be
other thatn what it is. I don't think it will be just a FWB thing, but I guess because I
consider that to be much more casual than perhaps it is. *shrug* | |
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Posted: 4/21/2008 11:54:18 PM | Do not be in too much of a hurry to slap a label on it and identify it... The process might kill it.
Just make sure that you BOTH benefit from the relationship and continue to do so. When one (or the other) is no longer growing because of the relationship that is the time to end it...
You don't always need to know where the road ends to enjoy the journey. | |
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Posted: 4/22/2008 12:07:09 AM | Somewhat similar situation here.......me = 44, her = 21.
"Ultimately, its my goal to ruin
her for other guys, become the measuring stick where all other guys will come up
short. :-) (So far I seem to be doing a good job.) "
Same here. Very easy to do. Average 21-25 year old guy is sooooooooooo immature. My intention is not to ruin her.....but to at least provide some clue as to how a man would treat her as opposed to a "joey". I just take it day by day. And ummmmm I AM older than her father.  | |
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Posted: 4/22/2008 3:19:46 AM | Rune3, I'm sorry, please accept my apologies if I seemed a bit of an arse. It was late at night and I had been reading so many posts where people had ended a relationship because of petty reasons and your comment came across as if you were deluding yourself.
OP, I have a saying that goes like this concerning age gaps and also long distance relationships -
Age is in the mind and distance in the heart. | |
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Posted: 4/22/2008 11:49:34 AM | ok rick,an interesting dilemma you pose,but your story has more holes than a dutch cheese.
it is obvious to me that you have no girlfriend,or why are you still on a dating site?
you need to get out more and meet real people rather than fantasising about dream girlfriends with a load of forum junkies | |
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Posted: 4/22/2008 2:47:54 PM |
ok rick,an interesting dilemma you pose,but your story has more holes than a dutch cheese.
it is obvious to me that you have no girlfriend,or why are you still on a dating site?
you need to get out more and meet real people rather than fantasising about dream girlfriends with a load of forum junkies
Nope. Just because I come here, just means I like to read stuff here.
Lots of people just come here for that, many are married or otherwise happily
involved. I've spent my fair share giving advice as well as asking for it.
Actually, lots of people who happen to have someone in their lives are still on
sites like these, though they often neglect to let others know. This is why you have
TV shows like Jerry Springer and Cheaters.
If you were able to check my emails from this site and others you would find zero
about me dating someone else. Meaning I have not tried to meet someone new, nor
get together with someone I already know. Really, I neither have the time nor the
inclination. Dating more than one person at a time has never been a concept I've been
all that comfortable with, which is one reason I started the topic.
A dream girl, for me, would be one closer to my age and ready to start a family, not
one I'm not sure will be around in a year or two. | |
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Posted: 5/15/2008 10:25:10 AM | An update of sorts.
Well, all good things must come to an end.
While it's not final, it does look like she is likely to choose another guy over me.
If I was the type to drink, I would likely have got drunk last night, or plan on it
for the weekend.
The really sad part about it, is that I have a feeling she ultimately going to be played
by this guy. You see, he is a 40 y/o advertising guy who is working on selling a
script. *groan*
The guy is supposed to be good looking and a bit of a charmer. No, I've not met him,
nor do I really wish to, as I can not see how it would anybody any good. I mean, if
the guy was in his mid 20's, or working in the medical field, or a mathematician
(all things that would be much closer to her than I) then I think I could better accept
it. But yet another pretty boy wanna be (band/actor/writer) as opposed to someone
who has had at least some success .... Blech!
I've talked with her and did my best to sell myself.
She says she was happy with me, but this guy makes her happier and he is less likely
to be upsetting to her family (she is not religious, but her family is a bit.)
And, cliche of cliches, she still wants to be friends.
And, I actually believe she means it, not just the usual hollow crap.
And, lame as it is, I want to still be friends with her too. *sigh*
What I've asked her to do is this. Introduce him to the people who know her and
who's opinion she respects. I'm hoping that if he is a player, their BS detectors will go
off and save her (and admittedly me) some grief.
Frankly, if she ends up in a relationship with him, which in time will lead to a sexual
relationship, I don't want to have to deal with her laments if he turns out to be an
a-hole, and she wants to get back together with me. Being a second choice or backup
is not the way I want to live my life. Plus, if she did have sex with him, I'd want to
wait a good while and get her tested for STD's since players often stray and bring
nasty things into your life if you are not very careful.
So, as I said, I guess all good things come to an end.
I just did not expect it to end so soon.
I wanted a chance to grow a bit more and I've done the getting dumped thing before,
so that's not something new to grow on, is it. | |
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Posted: 5/15/2008 9:44:04 PM | Richard,
I'm sorry to hear about your dissapointment about the break up, however after reading all of these posts; I'd have to say it was going to happen hon.
The first thing was:
A dream girl, for me, would be one closer to my age and ready to start a family, not
one I'm not sure will be around in a year or two.
That girl is not her. She has told you this. Regardless to what YOU think she needs or wants, SHE is TELLING you what she wants and to be honorable, you have to accept that. If she is making a mistake, even though you know it, you must let her make this. You can not take anothers life lesson away from them. If your not honoring what she is asking, then you are forcing your view on her and that is not cool.
You have stated variouse times that you are ready for a family... she will not be for another 10 years if that. So, my question would be.. were you planning on an accident? I've actually have met guys that have tried that before, and women as well so it does go on both sides of the fence. Not good.
Also, when a girl says that they want to be your friend.. sometimes and I'm saying sometimes, that is out of guilt of being the breaker-upper, but don't hold your breath. Because if she truly wanted a relationship with you, this guy would have never entered the picture with her.
Just keep in mind something.. you sound like a really nice guy and you are worth way more then what she is giving you credit for. You deserve to meet a lady that is close to your age and wants what you want.. all though just keep in mind that most ladies past 35 are done raising and running around after young ones and want to remember what life is like without little ones. I have a male friend that has two young girls from his privouse marriage because they started late and he is 43. He tells me that all of the potiental ladies go running, and a couple have tried to stick around but run in the end, because it is a lot of work to raise kids in the beginning. Then there is college. This is why I see some of my guy friends that are in their 40's marring young 20's, because once a woman reaches 35 developmental issues go up to 50% in some cases with babies from ladies in that age and older. Which means higher medical costs, education, tudors, stress is higher, etc... Are you ready for that? Just something to think about. Men are having babies later and life and women are saying.. Nahhh uhhh! Heh. ;)
Good luck. | |
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