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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/21/2008 4:19:56 PM | ok ladies, this isn't a pity post or anything and i'm not looking for fights to start up. just wondering if anyone else has experienced anything similar to what i'm about to tell you, and what your opinions are....
2 years ago, i was working 2 full time jobs as i wanted to be considered for a mortgage for my own home (just me!) i had invested most of one paycheque into a savings bond and lived off the other. i was able to stow away a nice little sum. after doing this for a year (can you say hello! exhaustion!), i made an appointment with my bank. keep in mind that i only had one credit card with only a 2k limit and no other outstanding debts or obligations aside from basic utilities. just before i made the appointment, i had finished paying off a personal loan through said bank and had never been late. i was actually on accelerated, bi-weekly payments so that it would make my credit stronger and never once missed or was late on a credit card payment (i only used it for car repairs and paid it off asap!) any mortgage brokers i spoke to explained that banks will generally approve you for 3 times the amount of your gross annual income. great i thought, i'll seek something that i can afford with the one job that paid the most. i wasn't looking for anything extravagant and had located a cute little 2 bedroom home for less than 85k. when i met with the loan officer, she asked me the basic questions. then came the somewhat insulting questions. she asked if my father would be co-signing (to which i answered no!) then she asked my marital status (single) and asked if there would be a second income for the household. i thought this odd because my gross income was pretty good with one job, and that was the whole point of me working the second job. i told her how much i had for the down payment after legal fees, etc., were taken care of (still in double digits but just barely). she left the office to "talk" to someone. ten minutes later she came back and needless to say she squashed my dream. her words--"we are not able to consider you for a mortgage because your household is a single income household" i snapped up in my chair and gave her i think the most quizzical look i had ever given anyone. i told her i didn't understand and asked about the nearly non-existent debt to income ratio or something wrong with my credit..."oh no, you're credit is impecable. we would just require a larger downpayment, a co-signer, or a second income from another person." i sat there thinking "that's the point of the second job...so i need a "second" income since i'm already providing it!"
ok sorry it took so long (wanted to make it detailed so that i didn't get any responses overloaded with speculation and assumptions) i've known A LOT of couples where only the husband works and made less per year than me and had children yet were approved for a mortgage. i've also known single men with ridiculous debt to income ratios who were approved for mortgages also.
i don't want a battle of the sexes thread to start here, however, i feel as though i was discriminated against because i'm a single, childless woman. has any independant, single woman out there had something like this happen to 'em? | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/21/2008 4:44:43 PM | Oh you poor thing! I know exactly how you feel. When I bought my first home, most women didn't buy homes alone. Along with all the usual questions, the mortgage officer had the audacity to ask about my periods, whether I became incapcitated while having them, was I on birth control, and a myriad of questions that were so left field I couldn't believe it.
At that time, I had a full 20% to put down on a house. I was refused. I was absolutely furious. I made more than any guy my age made and they were married and buying homes with 15/5 mortgages on only one income.
Fortunately, that was also when women were just beginning to feel their financial muscle. After crying on the shoulder of one of my older, wealthier female friends, she used her influence (and very big bank account) at her bank to help me get a mortgage in my own name.
Don't get discouraged. Try mortgage companies, not banks. If your credit is great and your debt/ratio is low, you will probably have better luck. | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/21/2008 4:48:15 PM | Hmmm.
Different location, different time, different result.
I bought my first house when I was a little younger than you are now... and I was (still am) single and childless. No one co-signed. I had only my own income and was not working a second job. However, I assumed a VA loan on a house where the owner was walking away. My "down payment" was that I was paying off the second mortgage. Even so, the house was under market price. I sold that house 10 years later to relocate and start a business.
I bought my current house nine years ago, just two years after starting my business. Being self-employed put a new spin on things. I looked "higher risk" to the bank and I was, again, assuming a VA loan that had gone into default on a great home which was in good shape. The result was that I did require a co-signer, initially (an aunt), even though the co-signer contributed nothing toward the purchase or mortgage. It just gave the bank and the VA a warm fuzzy because seeing me self-employed for only two years at that point was scary to them. The co-signer filed a quit claim and I refinanced, on my own, six years ago with no trouble.
I suggest, OP, that you shop around for a mortgage rather than relying on your local hometown bank. I know it's a point of pride and a point of independence... I get that - but do what you have to do to get your foot in the door - you can always change things up later.
Good luck! | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/21/2008 5:05:02 PM | By all means shop around. You may even have gotten a loan officer who woke up on the wrong side of the bed.
I had my accounts at a bank like that for many years. Then one day I saw a deal on a couple of rental houses so I called the bank and they wouldn't give me the time of day. It ticked me off so I went through the phone book and found a guy who didn't know me from Adam and he said sure, come by and we'll do something. And within a month I was signing the papers so naturally I moved my accounts over to his bank.
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/21/2008 5:09:25 PM | | Don't know why you're bothering with the banks, find a good mortgage broker, there's someone who will give you a mortgage, I've managed on my own for 15 years. They may have had concerns that you wouldn't keep up the two jobs once you got the mortgage, but in this day and age of zero down, and 40 year mortgages they could still have found a way to qualify you if they really wanted to. The point is, just because one place says no, it doesn't mean they all will. Once, when renewing a mortgage I went to several banks, and the funniest one was the lady at the Royal who wanted to 'secretly' offer me 'very low interest rate'. She didn't want me to tell any of the other banks what she was willing to offer. Funny thing was, it wasn't even the best offer. After doing the rounds of all the banks a friend recommended a good mortgage broker, and I go back to him every single time. Be willing to stand up and walk out the door. When you are a first time buyer the banks will play this game, trying to make you desparate and accept whatever crumbs they offer. | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/21/2008 5:21:48 PM | | good points guys...the reason i deal strictly with this bank is because it's a credit union and they've been very good to me (usually!) and my parents and grand parents have always dealt with them. i truly believe that there is something to be said for loyalty. also, even without the second job, my income is still enough that i should have qualified for something. *sigh* i didn't bother looking into other banks because they pull your credit every time and here in canada, that can kill your score almost instantly. i know in the states that so many inquiries can be done before the score drops (used to work for an american company). i do believe mortgage brokers to be extremely useful, however if i were to get a mortgage outside of my bank, i doubt i'll be treated the same or that if something were to happen (god forbid!), foreclosure would be iminent without a care as to why. in my experience with credit unions, i find them to be very personable and as long as i tell them what is going on, they do everything they can to assist me. however, i think i am going to look into brokers a little more in depth. | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/21/2008 5:30:02 PM | I love my credit union. Been a member there since I was 8 years old. They are great for many, many things. But I would NEVER go to them for a mortgage because their rates are higher and their criteria are tougher and more subjective.
You've just found out, OP, exactly how loyal your credit union is to you. You are paying them far more loyalty than they are paying you. It's about money. It's about business. Nothing more.
Mortgage broker sounds like a brilliant idea - they can pull your credit once and shop around to find you the best deal. | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/21/2008 5:30:39 PM | You can give them the Readers Digest version of your income without pulling your credit just to get an idea if they're more willing to help than the first place. Or ask for a copy of the first credit report to take with you.
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/21/2008 5:50:22 PM | evnstevn
while i do really appreciate your suggestions, in canada a bank isn't obligated to tell you anything they find on your credit report, let alone furnish you with their copy of it. and i can give banks and mortgage brokers here any version of credit that i want, but they still have to make an inquiry in order to give accurate information and rates. royal bank (one of canada's largest banks) actually pulled my credit a few years ago when i called to set up a meeting just to discuss the POSSIBILITY of opening a chequings account, without my permission, signature, etc. (and yes, i sought legal advice because it seemed odd and it turns out that if you want to do business with ANY bank, they're entitled to do a credit check)
also gals, does anyone else have any of their own "singlechildlessindependantwoman" stories? | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/21/2008 7:14:38 PM | Or ask for a copy of the first credit report to take with you.
This is against the law in the United States, as well as most other places that implement the three major credit reporting agencies, even when paid for by the applicant. The copies furnished to a financial adviser/official are different from the ones supplied to John Q. Public. A loan officer or banker can be reprimanded, lose their job and/or have their license pulled for doing such a thing. An individual can inquire for their own report and then review it to make sure it is accurate.
A loan officer/mortgage broker differs from a banker in that the former are usually individually licensed whereas the latter may work under a "blanket" license. The private broker has access to more lenders, typically 20-40 that have more lending practices that might be more favorable to your situation. A banker only has one lender that he deals with.
The current way that credit reports are pulled when buying a home are different than when you apply for credit cards or buying a car and affect your credit score less costly, since you'll do it less often. Based on income to debt ratios, overall income, credit available, tax returns, amount financed and such, a good loan officer will be able to figure out whether they can find a lending program suitable to your needs before pulling a credit report. It is not until that moment that he/she will need that report to submit to a lender. If you currently know what your credit score is then you can get an idea of where you fall in concerning your ability to be financed. It is also worth mentioning that what was deemed good credit two years ago is bad credit today.
One of the reasons why some will require a credit report upfront is to lessen every guy walking in and requesting work done for free. It shows your level of seriousness when buying a house. However, since a credit report will be run eventually, you must also be serious in actually closing on the house and not just want to see what the figures are without expecting an inquiry to show on your report.
Also, you may want to look into reporting your experience to a regulating government office. Here in the United States, we have protections under ECOA and RESPA. I am not sure of an equivalent laws or agencies in Canada. | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/21/2008 8:02:49 PM | Hey, since you're in Canada, contact First National. I've had a mortgage with them since 1997. Bought the house on my own in Toronto, got a mortgage broker, they came in and gave me more $ for mortgage and a lower interest rate than the banks and credit unions/caisse pop. I am extremely satisfied with their service. I quit the corporate world in 2000 and went off on my own, renewed in 2002 and then again in 2003 when I moved, and again last year, and they were very accommodating. I looked at bank offerings this last time around, and if they could match the interest rate (which they usually didn't, the insurance premium was more than twice what I pay at FN.
I don't think I can give out my broker's name here, but if you message me, I can give it to you. She was amazing. She shopped around for the best deal and she found it.
Also, take the advice of previous poster regarding discrimination. Wonder if the same thing would have happened to you if you were a single guy?
Anyway, best of luck and feel free to contact me. | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/21/2008 8:57:21 PM | | It's not loyalty if it doesn't go both ways. Continue banking with the credit union if you want, but go elsewhere for your mortgage. Credit unions are notoriously stingy with their money. A mortgage broker will shop several instiutions for you, and you will most likely get treated better by them than you will the bank. Brokers are paid a fee for bringing business to the mortgage company/bank, but banks aren't as motivated to find new clients because they walk in the door every day. You are also thinking about real estate in entirely the wrong way. It's an investment. If it's not working, sell it, easy to do in this market. You are also worrying far too much about what might go wrong instead of thinking outside the box. If you buy a place that has at least two bedrooms then you can always take in a room mate to help cover costs if things get tough. This is not about being a single young woman, it's about being young, with a short employment record, and a just as short financial history. Once you're over the hill like me, and have been working for the same company for close to 20 years, and have never missed a payment then the banks will trip over themselves to get your business. Every time I go into my local bank and ask a question I often find myself talking to the assistant manager or manager, and he's always trying to get me to switch my mortgage. I play hard to get, and if he doesn't make a good offer, I say thank you and leave. The bank should work for you, not the other way around. Go elsewhere to get your mortgage, then be sure to let your stingy credit union know where you got it! | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/22/2008 2:22:03 AM | | ummm...i appreciate everyone insight. my point of the forum was to see if any other women felt they had been overlooked or treated differently in a situation because they're single with/without kids. no one has experienced something like this in any situation? | |
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| For all the independent women.....
Posted: 4/22/2008 6:09:31 AM | I bought a house 15 years ago, just before I turned 30. The only problem I encountered was having to explain maybe one late payment on a credit card or loan....it was no big deal. I have since refinanced once with absolutely no problems. I was (am) single/never married, no kids.
Good luck! | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/22/2008 8:25:25 AM | | The banks know they can't get away with that crap these days. They will be reported. When the credit union told you it was because you are are a single income household, they probably meant that if you were to be seriously hurt, and unable to go to your two jobs, then there would be no income at all. Credit unions are far too cautious with their money. Without knowing all the details of your life, it's pretty hard to guess at any other reason they may have had. If you have trouble qualifying a good mortgage broker will give you some ideas on what you can do to ensure success. Keep trying, if you buy when you're under 30 your will definitely have it paid for long before you retire! | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:32:03 AM | Yes. When I went to lease a car in 1995. I was told that I needed a cosigner for 25k car lease, they said that my husband would have to co-sign, when I explained that we were common law and that I made 2 x what he did they were still insistant. So I got up, said thanks and that I would be taking my business elsewhere and left. I got a call the very next morning, recieved an apology and was offered the lease. To this day with the exception of the mortgage I have never had a co-signer and when asked about it, I have point blank refused. Strangely enough when my ex went to urchase his own vehicle there was no issue with a co-signer. I have had 7 cars, never missed a payment, never missed a mortgage payment, I refuse to have a co-signer, if my history isnt good enough then tough. There is always someone willing to deal with you.
Op I believe that there are 2 different kinds of "credit checks" one what they call a soft one that verifies what information that you have provided and a hard one that is actually a credit check on your history, including your payment history, collection notices and how much revolving credit you have. I could be wrong but I remember reading that on the equifax web site. | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/22/2008 12:57:11 PM | | I think you should be extremely proud of yourself for being in the financial position that you're in. Some of us would love to only owe 2K on 1 card....lol. I agree with another poster that said check out mortgage companies. When I divorced last year, the bank that had my mortgage wouldn't refinance my home so that I could get a loan in my name alone. So I went with a mortgage company. They had no problem refinancing it, giving me a low interest rate and seeing that all the paperwork was in order. It can be done....just don't give up ! | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/27/2008 9:15:01 PM | i got approved for a 100k mortgage a couple years ago without even needing a down payment, and it was through the bank, and i was on single income. Im in calgary alberta, this was before the boom if that helps, and i could have prob got approved for more had i gone to a mortgage broker instead.
try someone else, some people just dont approve u while others will! good luck. | |
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imp78
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 19 | |
| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 4/27/2008 10:51:51 PM | Thankfully, I haven't experienced something so overt or over something so big in my life.
Closest thing ....
I went to a baby store to buy a birthday gift for one of my nephews, wrote a check so my sister could return the toy for cash if she wanted to, and the clerk asked me for my HUSBAND'S work phone number to write on the check. He'd barely looked at me when I came up to the counter and when I said I wasn't married, he tried to backpedal. After a couple of false starts, he finally blurted that of course I wasn't married, I didn't look OLD ENOUGH.
LOL ... what a little POS, he didn't even know he insulted me twice. I mean, what does age have to do with marriagability (trust me, I didn't look like I was 12 years old)?
Oh well, he was pretty young and clearly laboring under the illusion that getting some kind of sad compliment out was better than just a quick apology and keeping his mouth shut. | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 8/5/2008 10:45:54 PM | Wow! what a kick in the head! ~ Poor baby ~ thats not fair is it!
there is a lot of "not fair" out there ~ I use to have a companion in realestate sales ~ for 7 years ~ in fact ~ she bought houses like some women do purses. ~ and like most women ~ she'd come home and tell daddy about all her problems ~ and she had some ~ believe you me. ~ She was a driven woman and worked hard , like yourself.
But unlike you ~ she got on something and she stayed on it ~ until it when her way. She wouldn't take no for an answer.
Where it was an insurance issue or a roof or plumbing or cost or inspection report, an appraisal ~~ she would keep asking people the same question ~ until someone told her what she wanted to hear.
Now ~ it's true this did get her into some problems and some very tight spots. ~ For what you might wish to hear ~ might not always be correct.
But ~ my point is ~ she was unstoppable ~ it was going to be her way ~ if it hair lipped the devil himself. She was tireless ~on the phone for days ~every spare minute~ dealing just one of 50 issues that she might be working with.
You seem like a determined kind of Lady ~ and chances as ~ buying houses, it's not something you have a lot of personal experience at. ~~
You need to be one hell of a ballbuster and fast learner ~ or get yourself a "good agent" a woman like yourself ~ that understands your issues. ~ look for a top producer ~ thats 90% home sales. ~ There is federal and state programs out there for ladies like yourself. And all these lending insitutions are not the same. Just like each carlot is different.
There is alot more to buying a home then meets the eye. ~ You shop for your agent with the same zeal you do for a home. ~ It'll cost you 5 to 7 % ~ and save you no telling how much. ~
And timing is everything! Good Luck ! ~ You can do this!
"prepair today ~ for tomorrow success" ~ was a quote on her office wall
and this you have done ~ you are just not finished!
Dance | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 8/6/2008 6:18:36 PM | Yea ~ being self-employed ~ is a trick ~ I've been self-employed since 78 ~
There is still options avaliable to you ~ but you are not~ Ward and June Cleaver.
The system works against anyone that ~ is not ~~ normal ~
and normal is ~ married, works in the town you live ~ works for an employer that pays you by the hour ~ works an 8 to 5 job ~ weekends off ~ and bring down 35 to 45 thousand or more a year ~ and files an income tax short form.
I have a brother thats a Seamen ~ and spends much time at sea. ~ Now a ship is an Identy ~ all working , gainfully employed ships ~ have their own address. ~
Explain that to some inland Bank or loaning agent ~ or attempt to explain to some judge why you missed a court date.
People live in small worlds ~thinking that they are the center.
There is ways around these obstacles ~ but people will wear you down with their narrow views and understanding ~for us, ~ un -normal people.
Dance | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 8/6/2008 6:39:38 PM | can't get much more independent than moi...
I am a single mother of two and a job that pays very little. Three years ago when I was about to close on my home, I lost my job. Nothing new in this area. This dampered my original plans, but found a lender who required NO (that's zip, zero, zilch) papers. No proof of income. No proof of a job. No showing of past W2's or tax returns. I bought the house PURELY on my credit score. The interest rate was high, but I refinanced after 2 years to a much lower rate. Something I had to show LOTS of paperwork for. But I did it. A single mother of two with an income that would shock many (and not because it's big, by all means, I'm as poor as a white girl can get).
So, please, find a new lender and shop around too. Don't let this one discourage you. Certainly, if I can do it, someone with no dependents and 2 jobs can do it, too!!
GOOD LUCK! | |
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| FOR ALL THE INDEPENDANT WOMEN....
Posted: 8/6/2008 8:21:46 PM | Try a mortgage broker, they sometimes can get better results. Or talk to other banks, and if you get a mortgage from them, move all your bank accounts etc. to them. If you feel you should be rewarded for loyaly (and I agree with that) then I would show the new place loyalty as well.
Good luck!
p.s. as far as having your credit pulled by banks, I think I heard something that when you are looking for a mortgage, it doesn't really affect things, because they understand that it is a bank pulling it, for a mortgage. | |
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