JWRed
| | Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 1 | |
| | When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?Page 1 of 17 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17) | I never felt comfortable taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex because I felt it was taking advanatage of the girl being drunk. This past weekend I did for the for the first time. At the bar, there was no question that she wanted me to take her home. We only spoke for about five minutes and she said, "Take me home and f*** me." She was definitely drunk, but not completely wasted. If she was drunk on her ass, I would not have taken her home. The next morning, I took her home. She barely said a word to me and it appeared she regretted what happend the previous night.
Most guys, my friends included, don't have a second thought about taking a drunk woman home from a bar. I have heard stories of men being accused of rape for doing this. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 8:38:18 AM | Fcuk that! If she wants to cry foul because she couldn't handle her liquor and made a string of bad decisions according to her judgment and moral convictions that is her ball to bounce. Now if you fed her drinks all night, or slipped something in her drink, with the intention of getting her tanked enough to screw then yes, you should be charged with rape, UNLESS. And this is a VERY fine line. If she was really into you and was talking dirty BEFORE she got drunk as to make her intentions known. Then MAYBE it could be considered kosher. But NO. Still no. I take that back. If you feed her drinks with the intention of taking her home so that you can be certain she won't or can't say no then it's rape my friend. But taking a drunk girl home is fine. If she's stumbling drunk I'd question your taste and your judgment but that's about it.
I had this happen one time where she got upset the next morning. We met early on in the evening and talked briefly. She had just gotten there and we only talked a few minutes and said we'd catch up later on. I met her again around midnight and we ended up dancing the night away. She asked to come back to my hotel. We shared a cab back and had a wild and crazy night. I don't think she was plastered, and I know I wasn't totally lit up. The next morning she got up and could hardly open her eyes she was so hungover. She said she thinks we had sex and remembers parts of it but she thought it was a dream. But she was sore so we must have done something. She was standoffish and ended up starting to cry. I gave her a bit of space and then tried to talk to her and she got mad with me, saying I coerced her into coming and she doesn't remember consenting to anything sexual and that's not her style. I just laughed it off. I grabbed her jacket and her purse, and called her a cab. I EVEN gave her $10 to get her on her way! Gentleman I am, I know. LOL I couldn't believe the audacity of this woman. It was clear she felt sick about having had a one night stand. I don't think she was upset that I was the guy, or that it was bad, because she sure enjoyed herself a number of times and I was the one that had to throw in the towel eventually as I was exhausted! I won't be blamed for other people's mistakes. | |
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| Throw your life away why don't you?
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:08:28 AM | It may SOUND consensual but it is her prerogative to say "No" at ANY TIME before AND during sex. It is NOT unusual for women to get drunk, horny, go home with some stranger and then claim RAPE just to save their marriage. In University towns because of their extreme PC attitudes having sex with a drunk chick IS rape by definition. Liberal courts and liberal judges (many of them same sex advocates) will skewer a white male in court if that kind of accusation happens. You have no hope of "justice" or common sense (..."but she SAID "take me home and fu¢kme rigid.") being a factor. They will PROVE you are a misogynistic Neandrathal who took advantage of this poor girl who was OBVIOUSLY in no mental condition to assume responsibility for herself. You'll do 15 to 20 with a hatchet murderer for a roomie!!
It really doesn't matter if she sez "Take me home and fu¢k my brains out." - if she changes her mind and declares the act a rape then guess who get's fu¢ked in the end? Even IF you're not convicted it'll bankrupt you fighting the charges and you'll probably end up losing your job and half your family. The Charges will be in all the local papers. The dismissal / conditional discharge (if you're found not guilty) will be on pg 86 . It has all the potential to completely ruin your life. It might be fun for BOTH of you but booze does weird things to folk. Liquid BiPolarity fraught with all the dangers of having the person flip without any warning.
There was a rape CONVICTION discussed on Bill O'Reilly the other night. My understanding is there will be an appeal but this dude was boinking some babe. ABSOfu¢kingLUTELY consensual at the start but then she changed her mind and said "NO." According to the record it took him 5 to 6 SECONDS to cease and desist. According to the definition accepted by the moro .... ummm JURY as presented by the DA, during those 5 or 6 SECONDS before he withdrew IT WAS RAPE. A CONVICTION was registered. The idiotic thing is the LAW and JUSTICE sees little difference between a "rape" like this and one where some yabbo jumps some 16 yr old on her way home from school, rapes her for hours, carves his initials in her breasts and puts out his cigarettes on her clit. I used to be a cop. I saw the diff between a RAPE and a "change of mind" but the courts see them as pretty much the same!!!
Up to ewe people but DAMNed if I wanna stick my neck in THAT hornet's nest. Boink a drunk chick and you're dropping your life into a dice cup and they're all LOADED against yo ass.
JMHO. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:15:27 AM | The only way to ever avoid questioning yourself whether it was the right thing to do or not...is to never do it unless you are absolutely sure. The only way to be absolutely sure is to make it a rule of thumb for yourself never to have sex with anyone unless they're in the right (straight) frame of mind. That way when they consent you'll know they absolutely wanted it.
Having sex with anyone under the influence to the extent that you claim she was when you stated she was definitely drunk, means she was not completely aware or capable of making ANY responsible decisions let alone one that may change her life OR YOURS forever in various ways.
Thinking of the possible outcome and knowing what several consequences could be as a result of what we may do, sometimes helps to put the brakes on before proceeding with the action we were thinking of taking.
STOP
THINK
CHOOSE THE RIGHT ACTION
AND REST EASY BECAUSE YOU DID!
If it's meant to be, the chance will come up again and hopefully both parties will be in the right frame of mind to want it and enjoy it without regrets.
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:21:35 AM | | i wondered about that too, it was mentioned if the male is drunk how is it that he can give consent to the female but she cant give consent to the male. Its all a load of bull anyways taking responsibility of ones owns actions and putting it in the hands of other people. Unless you are passed out and cant talk you can give consent. Ive been drunk to the point i have "passed out" but i can damn well say up until that point i would know if i had done anything with anybody so this i was too drunk is utter rubbish in everyway, again UNLESS you are asleep or something and not functional. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:23:28 AM | I think this is a very good question and hope there will a lawyer in POF and respond to that.
It happens quit often and I have been in such a situation before, it is a very hard decision to make. Couple times I rejected and several times I did go with her, but since there is a fear, the sex is not good. | |
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| Throw your life away why don't you?
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:26:53 AM | | Dave is absolutely right people. I have not done this sort of thing very many times but I tell you it will likely never happen again. Aside from the fact that I met the one I want to be with, if things don't end up working out for some bizarre reason I won't start slingin' drunk women in bars. I know a man personally who was convicted of rape years back. He met her at a pub and they ended up in his truck (he was a truck driver). They spent three days together, and then he found out she was only 19 (he was 33) and her parents caught them out and about where he was sitting waiting for a load and flipped out on her. She freaked and said he forced her into it and they charged him. He spent 8 years in jail. Now the Canadian legal system is a little more fair than the America system. No wait. The American justice system is downright retarded on many fronts. I admit we have our moments as well, but not nearly like the stories I hear from south of the border. So when I hear 8 years for a face-saving gesture on her part I think he lucked out. Had he been in Tennesssee or Texas waiting for a load and this happened they may have hung his ass or thrown away the key. LOL | |
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| Throw your life away why don't you?
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:34:17 AM | | OP: its best not to even leave with a drunk girl. Even if yo udont have sex, you can be charged with attmpted rape. Honestly, she doenst even need to prove it. As long as she says you tried, you tried! | |
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K-lo
| | Joined: 7/31/2006
Msg: 17 | |
| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:37:39 AM | This is sickening. Dave is right. These kinds of bull$hit "date rape" charges undermine the real rape cases. Like when my roommate was attacked walking home from work and her face was beaten beyond recognition and she had to get tested for hepatitis and HIV because the guy broke her skin when he savagely bit her. Or like another friend who was drugged while out of town and taken to a room where she was gang-raped by 3 strange men and woke up with her pacemaker outside of her chest. Those are "rapes."
I would have a hard time convicted someone of rape as a juror. When you compare violent rapes to a dlck tease who decides to say "no" halfway into the process . . . I'd have a really hard time ruining someone's life over the latter. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:44:15 AM | ^^^^Yes, but these "d!ck teases" can be awfully convincing in court, with their crying and emotional duress. Look at the girl who tried to charge Kobe a few years back. Whether he did it or not, she recanted halfway through it and never saw a dime. But the whole nation was convinced he was a douchebag.
EDIT:
I heard a story on a news show recently (Dateline or 60 Minutes, something like that) where a girl charged a guy with rape, and he was convicted by a jury. But there was no violence, and there was consent, and she never said no. In the trial she said she was crying inside and wanted to stop him so badly because she knew it was a mistake but allowed it to go on and now she was so emotionally distraught from the incident. And that convicted him. They were friends, and were apparently watching movies together when it happened. Some friend, huh? Sends her close friend to jail for 12 years for her fcuking inability to open her trap and shut her legs. Nice. | |
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K-lo
| | Joined: 7/31/2006
Msg: 19 | |
| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:51:49 AM |
Yes, but these "d!ck teases" can be awfully convincing in court, with their crying and emotional duress. That's exactly why I would not be a good juror for them. There would have to be some serious evidence lending itself to actual violence and force for me to believe that someone was actually "raped." If it were one of those "he said - she said" (and all she said was "no") . . . how am I to really know, based on that total lack of evidence what really transpired in that bedroom. I don't. And I couldn't send someone to prison based on so little. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:57:20 AM | | I agree with deuce on this one. you cannot be held accountable for someone elses decisions. Now if you had slipped something in her drink then it's a different story but if she approached you and told you she wanted sex well then she wanted sex! As long as she can tell you how many fingers you're holding up without mumbling the reply incoherantly while swaying back and forth with a glazed over look in her eye then go for it. I really don't see how that could be considered rape. What if she had smoked a joint would that be rape? Or what if it was someone you'd been dating for a long time and you went out to a function and got smashed and told him to take you home for some hot sex would that be rape? Bottom line you can't rape the willing and in your case she sounds like she was willing. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:02:24 AM | She should take responsibility for her choices, even impaired and I don't think you did anything wrong but for your own piece of mind and avoiding something more complicated than the cold shoulder, perhaps stick to women that are tipsy and not outright drunk.
If you do not know someone, you have no idea what they are like relative to drinking. Some people function fairly well even totally plastered and have marginal recall of events. Some people that do not drink may have much less control over themselves and even less recall.
This woman may be the type that does not really get drunk. She may have been mortified about that, about going home with you, particularly if she is young. Some women are never comfortable with a one-night stand because of what we are taught about sex. Others only get comfortable when they are considerably older.
If it is someone whose habits you do not know, tread more carefully. Obviously you are a decent enough guy that you don't want to hurt a woman unnecessarily and that is a good thing. In this situation, it sounds like she is much like you, not the type to go home with someone. If you have a number or will see her again, maybe some reassurance of that nature will let her know that you DO still respect her in the morning. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:05:42 AM | It's considered rape when:
1. She has regrets
2. She has guilt
3. She has a husband
4. She has a boyfriend
5. She wants to get married
6. She is pregnant with someone else's baby and wants to get married.
7. She is a Holier than Thou Born Again suddenly and want to get married
8. She is Underage and living with her folks, her father is a Preacher!
9. She is a good actress, can turn on the waterworks and manipulate people.
10. She has an axe to grind.
Yeah...so many reasons NOT TO TAKE A DRUNK WOMAN FOR A ONE-NITER. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:11:18 AM | I'm certainly NOT belittling the trauma of true date rape - where she thought they were just having a nice date and he insists on sex after necking and mutual groping. Especially if that is how she loses her virginity it can be devastating for a young girl
BUT
Believe me in a trial anybody with any COMMON SENSE will have NO trouble distinguishing between a RAPE and a "I changed my mind." or even worse "He raped me. The check bounced!!" Real rapes are brutal and the sex is SECONDARY. It is the terror and the pain that turns these pri¢k's cranks, OK? It is something that most people aren't aware of and until you've seen the immediate aftermath you are liable to fall for the BS stories of "rape" as described above. It DOES diminish true rape in the eyes of the public but there's no shady area with what I call a REAL rape. NONE.
Unfortunately lib left judges, DA's and Crowns with a sexual agenda have hijacked the process. What I wrote up above can happen to anybody under any circumstances. It's just a LOT easier for them to convict your ass if the poor girl was hammered when you did her.
Women and women's advocacy groups have been fighting for decades (millenia?) for women's RIGHTS and for society to take women seriously. I mean just look at what most widows go through to establish a credit history after a spouse dies. No problem for the guy. If it's the woman it's assumed she is incompetent - a child. SO they fight against that kind of idiocy and then when it comes to booze and sex they are more than happy to COMPLETELY relieve the woman of ALL responsibility for herself and blame the guy.
Sorry to turn this into a political discussion but that's what we are facing if some drunken "date" decides that what SHE wanted (at the time) was rape. The full force of law enforcement and judicial will treat you like a serial killer. Not fair. Just reality.
So as somebody said above ... take her home. Make sure she DOESN'T get raped and ask her out again sometime. If she's decent she'll respect you and good things could happen later. Because of how the ""LAW"" works these days you need to take responsibility for not just you but HER TOO so do the right thing. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:32:32 AM |
Too often girls use the skewed attitude often found in the court systems and elsewhere to their advantage in these sorts of situations that occur. Although luckily the OP didn't have anything like that happen to him, the general attitude of the woman seems to be there. Another poster said that he wouldn't be blamed for the mistakes of others, and he is absolutely correct in saying this. It seems that many girls end up in situations where they made a bad judgement call while plastered, whether they wouldn't normally have a one night stand or they aren't attracted to the person. To then cry foul is because, for one, they need to rationalize their bad decision to themselves and any others who may be pulled into the situation, to whatever degree they cry foul and whatever extent others may be involved, if they are at all.
Men have been vilified to a certain degree, to the point that in many cases, a woman with no cause but with malicious motive can call rape and potentially wreak some serious havoc to the life of that man, at the least, and the same is true in other situations as well. I'm not minimizing the seriousness of rape and assault, but when it is at the point that the men on this thread are coming out with the very true comments they are, it must be pointed out that it seems too easy for a man to be unjustly accused by a woman of taking advantage of her when she was intoxicated, evident by the number of cases of this sort that have occured. In the sorts of situations that are under discussion, using good judgement all around seems to be the best way to prevent this from happening. And I'm not only talking about the judgement of the man. | |
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