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Show ALL Forums  > British Columbia  > Welfare recipients with money to burn!      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Tyeee
Joined: 7/6/2007
Msg: 1
Welfare recipients with money to burn!Page 1 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
Welfare recipients with money to burn!

Have you ever seen low income people who despite their lack of fortune evidently still have money to spend on non-essentials... okay they appear to us to be non-essentials.

Perhaps you have seen people featured in the news, in a tent city environment and they were bemoaning their sad circumstanced... with a smoking cigarette hanging from their lips.

I remember something from some years ago. My young kid had attended a friend's birthday party up the street, Her friend's parents were on social assistance. We had pre-arranged that I call at some point in the afternoon to see how things were going and if the party was over or not.

I called at the appointed time and much to my surprise the mom said "Hi Tyeee (okay, she used my real name)"

She admitted to having Call-Display which was not a common service then, indeed so uncommon it was perhaps the second time in my life someone revealed knowing who I was before I identified myself.

Perhaps you have encountered other examples .

The question to debate:

Should welfare recipients have the choice to spend tax payer money on what appear to be non-essential things that others cannot justify spending the money on?

Tyeee
 Crashingchloe
Joined: 3/27/2008
Msg: 2
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 6:59:17 PM
So what your saying here is that people that are down and out for whatever reason, (some are very sincere short term reasons I might add) are no longer entitled to make choices about their lives, like they don't matter. Only those of us that earn a living are entitled to be treated like human beings and there for are entitled under the Charter to make personal decisions....


Got it !!!


Sigh

CC

* Note- Oddly enough just got an email from my union regarding welfare...if your interested in reading it Tyee...email me as I can't email you...
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 3
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History
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 7:19:48 PM

So what your saying here is that people that are down and out for whatever reason, (some are very sincere short term reasons I might add) are no longer entitled to make choices about their lives, like they don't matter. Only those of us that earn a living are entitled to be treated like human beings and there for are entitled under the Charter to make personal decisions....


He may not be,,,but I WILL. There has to be a time when certain types of people MUST be accountable for their actions. There are certain people out there that have proven time and time again that they obviously CAN'T make the correct choices on their own. Do YOU expect ME to keep feeding these people a monthly cheque and have them NOT be accountable?????

And no, we are not talking about people with "sincere" reasons who have come about some short term problems. I believe Tyeee is pointing to the "lifers". You know,,,the ones that are ALWAYS in the lineup every last Wednsday of the month for YEARS.

And what type of "humans" should we be treated them like. Should we treat them like we treat the majority who get up every morning, head to work, bust their bums, bring home their paycheque,make ends meet and maybe get to go "out" to dinner for one evening a month??????? Or should we treat them like "humans" who have no problem holding their hand out, day in, day out, asking, requesting, EXPECTING help, time and time again.

Yeppers, pisses me off to watch that liquor store busier than any other day of the month on those Wednedays. Actually, pisses me off to no end,,,,,especially in these times here in BC.
 gon_fishin
Joined: 11/8/2007
Msg: 4
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 7:23:32 PM
Is tomorrow welly day??

May have to go pick up a cheque just to piss some people off
 quadingguy
Joined: 5/5/2007
Msg: 5
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 7:39:13 PM
this is another dumb topic.

whining about social issuse.


NOT EVERYONE IS PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!
 Xavery
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 6
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 7:47:04 PM
Here we go again. Walts - most people don't choose to be on welfare. The humane thing to do is help them out. Yes, a few people scam the system, but why punish the majority for the minority?
 silibus
Joined: 4/8/2008
Msg: 7
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 8:21:38 PM
Hey Tyee, if you think that is bad try this on for size: In Canada a refugee can get from our government almost $2400/month at the same time as an old age pensioner who has worked hard all of their life and whos taxes built this country gets a maximum of
$1024/month. Won't that have you smiling when you cash your pension cheque and you are eating food made from 'who-knows-what' simly because your politicians are in bed with Big Business. I know I am not going to like it. By the time I get to retire I expect to be paying my taxes openly to some corporation and not my government.
(as though there is any difference already)
 the cat came back/sponge
Joined: 3/12/2008
Msg: 8
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 8:25:10 PM
Well, its one thing to be on welfare, (sometimes it is needed) I dont understand how a single person can afford smokes on welfare and still be able to eat...or how a single parent can take away from their children buy buying smokes and alcohol and worse yet drugs and still be able to buy food and clothing etc .
 Kootgal
Joined: 4/2/2008
Msg: 9
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:08:35 PM
OMG.. DON"T get me started. Lemme spill the beans on the whole system. I worked for the City of Toronto as an "Ontario Works"(now THERES an oxymoron) caseworker for 15 years.
Know what finally sent me over the edge?
The last two years I was there.. the Ontario Coalition Against Poverty (OCAP) found a loophole in the legislation that allowed EVERY member of a family on assistance to get an extra $250 a month for "special diet" allowance. I had single moms with 6-7 kids (refugees) showing up with special diet allowance forms, signed by legitimate (and not so legitimate) Drs and being able to collect another $3000 on top of the $1500 or more they were getting a month.. tack onto that their Child Tax Credit for 7 kids.. AND they lived in subsidized housing, paying $237 a month for a 4 bedroom townhouse, their kids were in subsidized daycare because they were "looking for work"
Meanwhile, I was working 40 hours a week, not able to afford a car because MY money went to rent ($1100 for a two bedroom in the crappy part of town) daycare.. I got some subsidy because I was a single parent but I still paid up to $600 a month and then groceries, bills.. I was lucky to have $20 to my name at the end of a cheque.. and I didn't smoke or drink because I COULDN"T afford to.
In July 2005, Toronto Social Services issued over.. 5 MILLION dollars in special diet
funds.. that was just ONE month.. and when I left in Dec 2006.. they still hadn't found a way to plug up that leak.
I've been out of that job now for almost 2 years and it still boils my blood at all the wasted taxpaying dollars because people were too afraid to offend "certain cultures" and risk discrimination lawsuits.
Bullshit..
Yes .. there are SOME, who by circumstances, end up on the system.. but they're the same ones who get off it quickly.. you barely get to know their names. But there were clients on my caseload when I left that I had been dealing with for 15 years.. and their KIDS were grown up and on it too.
BC has a better system in place.. or so I'm told.. apparently you can only be on assistance 2 out of every 5 years?? or has that changed?? I was dying to find out how that worked out.. I think every province should adopt that policy..
or do what the states does.. Food Stamps and prepaid rent. Why the hell not? If they ("they" being lifers always holding out their hands for more)don't have money to spend.. they'll be motivated to go off and stay off..
we hope..
 bcboy72
Joined: 3/16/2005
Msg: 10
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Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:17:49 PM
May have to go pick up a cheque just to piss some people off


You won't find your cheque..hid it under your work boots Gon.

And yes, I agree with the majority here, they need to be accountable for the dollars we give them...
It is my firm belief that the "willing and able to get a job" people on the welfare system should be made to report the welfare or city office every morning (mon-fri) at 9 A.M. to see if there are any odd jobs the city/town needs done. IE: garbage pick up, grass cutting, garden tending....etc..maybe some help for the local elderly? See how long it takes for the majority of them to find a real job. You miss a day of checking in, you miss a days pay. Pretty simple.

-edit.."willing" might be a bad term to use..lol
 themaven
Joined: 8/22/2005
Msg: 11
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:21:23 PM
Well, there are all types, all kinds and all sorts of reasons that people are in receipt of income assistance. I could go all over the map with opinions and stats although, I doubt it would be of any benefit to anyone.

I can though state that it would be a cold day in hell before anyone in BC received 300.00 on IA never mind that as a top up.

Well, unless of course you were a foster home perhaps, then it wouldn't be IA it would be money to take in foster children. Funny what we are willing to pay foster homes in relation to biological families.

All I can say is there is a serious problem with our social safety net and sadly often the people who "need" the most actually receive the least.

There are definitely far too many people scamming the system and unfortunately nowhere anywhere near enough case workers to actually do anything about it. Of course that is because we don't need public servants either....right?

That is yet another common public opinion......don't need public servants managing public funds to ensure fiscal responsibility......Just leave that in the capable hands of the elected officials............

Think I have already said too much here!!

edit: I agree with BC Boy's idea of reporting and work in the community.^^^^^ Good idea and concept......even wrote a paper along those lines many, many years ago. Sadly, that type of program would require more peons on the payroll and well........that would really cut into upper management if they had to hire more entry level types to manage that information and referral system......They may require a working group and committee....lots of meetings......proposals.......implementation well..........you get the idea!
 Pantherrrrr642001
Joined: 6/10/2007
Msg: 12
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:42:14 PM
^^ fantastic BCBoy I agree whole heartedly. I am so fed up with the people who use, use, use and get, get, get while those us stuck in the middle ground do not qualify to receive any benefits/help. My children would love to partake in all the extra curricular activites those on assistance get for free or for a greatly reduced fee. Be nice to get free meds and optical etc...just because one makes more money doesn't mean they have a greater disposable income. Annoys the heck out of me when I see folks driving next to new, if not new, SUV's ( sometimes 2/family) while most middle class people I know can barely afford their clunkers ( and insurance) that get them to work ( and hopefully back). Alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, junk food, new clothes and nights out aren't even in the equation.
Sad thing is that cheap, crappy food is cheaper than good healthy food. My sister in law is a social worker and it is only getting worse, not better year after year.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 13
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Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:48:28 PM
Well, then, let's have a 'sainthood test', shall we, for everyone who applies for welfare. Because of course, they've likely been brought up in the best of circumstances, are completely healthy, and are fully emotionally capable of making the best choices for themselves in all circumstances.

Now which one of the people wanting these people to be sterling human beings is willing to step up and offer themselves as examples of the epitome of perfection to be emulated?
 punem264
Joined: 7/26/2007
Msg: 14
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:54:30 PM
One of my ex friend's is on welfare she would rather sit on her duff, smoking and drinking coffee all day. A single mother she was, she was offered help (but refused it) when her son was growing up. So her father matched her income probably still doing it dollar for dollar. Earning $2, 000 a month. The son is all grown up now, Probably supporting her.
 Pantherrrrr642001
Joined: 6/10/2007
Msg: 15
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:32:02 PM
Merrylass
Well, then, let's have a 'sainthood test', shall we, for everyone who applies for welfare. Because of course, they've likely been brought up in the best of circumstances, are completely healthy, and are fully emotionally capable of making the best choices for themselves in all circumstances.
Now which one of the people wanting these people to be sterling human beings is willing to step up and offer themselves as examples of the epitome of perfection to be emulated?


perhaps you'd like to get off your high horse for a moment to realize we are NOT talking about those who legitimately NEED assistance. You are lumping us and our comments into the same categorizing as you are assuming and blaming us of. NO ONE said EVERYONE on assistance. The users and the lazy, "I want it all for free while I do nothing" types are the ones we are talking about. I am sure we ALL know atleast one or two like that. Some people openly brag about and are proud of the fact that they have multiple ways to scam the system and have fine back up plans.
( guess that is their f/t work! LOL)
 Tyeee
Joined: 7/6/2007
Msg: 16
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:40:33 PM
Responding to the comments above, many good and interesting..

I did not at any time suggest that people down and out should be denied choices to make in their lives.

I, and evidently others too, do have a problem when some people choose to spend your money and mine on what ultimately are considered luxuries, not essential.

Some people work hard and struggle to only barely manage to keep the water at nostril level, and they cannot afford the luxury of buying cigarettes, pay for Call Display and similar extravagences. Those same hard working people pay taxes on their income. The taxes contribute to funding social assistance programs, which some, NOT ALL, people abuse.

Some people might consider welfare programs to be social assistance. I think others might call it social injustice when they work hard so others can afford to buy what they cannot.

Tyeee
 brawcoaly
Joined: 1/6/2007
Msg: 17
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:41:25 PM
And here I work 2 jobs, sometimes three just to stay caught up with my mortgage, various insurances, car payments, student loan payments, food, utilities, taxes etc...the list goes on for all of us.

I like BC boys idea - make them report for work to get paid. That's how it works for the rest of us! I have no problem with people working for their money. I do have a problem with people injecting my hard earned cash into their arms.
 BCTodd
Joined: 10/9/2007
Msg: 18
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Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:43:14 PM
I don't smoke so I wouldn't know for sure, but couldn't people have smokes hanging from their mouth because they have a craving that's hard to conquer?

I mean, druggies go to severe lengths to get their fix. I wouldn't think that being homeless or on welfare would be enough to help people kick a nicotine habit.

Aw, hell, who's kidding whom? Anyone can smoke if they want. I myself am doing everything I can to eliminate the welfare state altogether.
 Celticlass2
Joined: 10/7/2007
Msg: 19
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:46:12 PM
Yah...I think the idea of people reporting to work for getting a cheque. But...how about rather than getting people to pick up garbage or other dead end jobs so that we can still know who the people on welfare are as we drive by them on the way to our better paying jobs, maybe our system should be looking at making upgrading and training for better jobs more accessible. Make sure that we also pay benefits ( holiday pay, dental, extended health) while they are doing these jobs so that it makes it worthwhile for them to continue since they may never be able to enjoy the same standard of living as you.

Also, who would be looking after the kids while Mom reports to her job shoveling snow or other things? Please don't forget that looking after kids is "real work" and that in our system, women don't get paid for being at home looking after the kids. I would much rather that my taxes go to paying for women to stay home with their preschool kids (especially single Mom's) rather than the kids having to be gotten up and taken to daycare when they are not well just 'cause Mom can't miss a day of pay at her low paying job that doesn't provide any benefits making it impossible for her stay and work at home taking care of the kids.
 Pantherrrrr642001
Joined: 6/10/2007
Msg: 20
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:01:14 PM
BCTodd
I wouldn't think that being homeless or on welfare would be enough to help people kick a nicotine habit.
Perhaps they could get the patch?... afterall prescriptions are COVERED for them. There are options.

Celticlass
as we drive by them on the way to our better paying jobs,

WHO said OUR jobs are better paying? Perhaps many of us aren't above working 2-3 jobs for minimum or next to it wages to make it on our own. No reason they can't get credit for their work at a minimum wages rate just like everyone else who works in a low end service job.
THEY already have 100% dental and health ( optical and prescription benefits) . They may NEVER be able to "ENJOY???"...... careful how that word is used and interpreted...... many folks are strapped as it is and DO NOT get holiday time because they are working too many jobs to keep their heads above water, hardly an enjoyable lifestyle.
As for stay at home Mom's,... fine, but guess what,..... when those little ones are in school Mom can go and do her work required to fulfill the requirements of staying on assistance,.. she's got from 9-3 Mon thru Fri. Just give a little back and work ones way off.

Sign me,... been there, done that when it was needed..... got my butt outta there as soon as I could and now have FAR LESS disposable income money than I ever had while needing help.
 Runs With Wolves
Joined: 1/19/2006
Msg: 21
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:03:36 PM
Tyee I cannot believe you would come to such a narrow field of thought and to what end?

$6.00 extra dollars a month for call display and you make generalizations that all welfare recipients spend their money foolishly. What does this say about the person you are? What does it say about the intent of your post? For the very fact that you posted this where it is, I call into question your sense of humility, the lack of compassion, and lets not forget the shame you should be feeling for the lack of judgment of making such a general statement.

My thinking goes to what in the world stimulated this so called

The question to debate:
topic? Do you really think that this site is filled with upper middle class people? My god, learn to be more sensitive. Your reality might begin on line first thing in the morning and last throughout the day; Others while on welfare have to walk through the cold weather looking for work and begging for Bus Tickets at some Terminal.

Your reality Tyee is someone else’s illusion, remember that!

edit: social injustice ? Last time I gave anythought to having humility, it was called being human....
 Freely Fancy
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 22
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:12:17 PM
Let me share a deeply personal story: Years ago I used to pass welfare recipients lounging in the sunshine as I commuted to work. Yup, I did feel a tad resentful & judgemental at the time. However, much to my mortification/chagrin some years later I found myself in difficult circumstances which led to my applying for the pittance that is welfare. A humiliating & ghastly experience. Blech!
Putting my baby in his stroller I walked 2+ miles to drop him off at daycare prior to heading to work, reversing the entire process at the end of my working day. Why? Because I wanted more for myself & my children. Eventually I did get off that degrading system - tricky - & bought a home for my family.
There are several things I need to express:
1. I always felt truly GRATEFUL that welfare existed to help me get re-started.
2. I am proud of who I am & no longer feel any shame whatsoever about having been a welfare recipient; hence, I am quite happy to be having some of my income tax diverted to those in need.
3. Things are not always as they seem. I kid you not. Ha!
4. To any here who have expressed negative attitudes/opinions about people who collect let me first of all say A SINCERE THANKS 'cos without assistance at that time....??? Shudder,
AND, "Let he who is without sin cast the first st0ne" works for me! How about "Judge not lest ye be judged?" Let's not forget about walking in another's moccasins.... I could go on but I expect y'all get my drift.
Sorry for the length of my response.
Sincerely, Penelope
p.s. I assure you that I never had "money to burn." CHEERS!
 WesternRose
Joined: 1/14/2008
Msg: 23
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:16:18 PM
It blows me away to see the 'stuff' that pple on welfare have...seriously.
My sister refused to work after her fled her abusive husband....she had a lot of healing to do... on herself...the therapy for the kids was electronics... they had the best of the best toys...she continued not to seek work after her children were old enough to attend school...this confounds me.

As for the Call Display...well...again..the sister....she was raped a few years back...and she was given a cell phone and call display as a safety thing...it was a small town and her attacker lived in the same town.... so.. Call Display well...could be a safety feature.

Me?... I am not on gov't assistance... I do work part time, my kids are very young still... making moves to find full time work and affordable childcare.... I make do with what I have.

People need to discern the difference between their NEEDS and our WANTS.
Think about that.
 Tyeee
Joined: 7/6/2007
Msg: 24
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:24:24 PM
^^^ Runs with wolve

YOU are the one making generalizations. What does that say about you?

YOU will be challenged to find that I said 'all welfare recipients' in any post I made in this thread.

YOU will be similarly challenged to find that I said money was being spent foolishly.

So stop trying to put your words in my mouth so that you can argue about it.

Might be a good time for you to take the big chip off your shoulder (it has been there for quite some time).

Cheers.

Tyeee

EDIT: I too have been in dire straits and needed a hand up. Once when a young man a paycheque was delayed and rent was due and I was in a jam. I sought help, hoping to get a loan I was prepared to repay when the overdue cheque arrived. I was surprised I didn't have to replay and was of course grateful. I certainly do not think less of a person on welfare just because they are on it.

The issue is what they do with our money when they are on it. Are they spending it on necessities or luxuries.

EDIT: Panther. Thanks for helping guide some people to the facts of the topic.
 Pantherrrrr642001
Joined: 6/10/2007
Msg: 25
Welfare recipients with money to burn!
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:29:03 PM
^^^ oops Tyeee you type faster than I do .......

Not sure WHY it is that I am surprised but WHEN, OH WHEN will people READ what the OP's actually write and not go off spouting or judging them and putting words into their mouths/posts.... NOWHERE did Tyeee state that ALL welfare recipients are lazy, money grabbing folks,..... he simply stated,... HAVE YOU EVER SEEN??????????
Of course,...... for the umpteenth time this will be said....... we are NOT,.. yes, I said NOT saying everyone is like this, those of us posting comments on the against side are only talking about the FEW bad apples that perhaps give others a bad name and lead to steroetyping.,... capice????????
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