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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 12:30:07 AM | Maryland's highest court recently expanded the common-law definition of rape, by deciding that a man can be found guilty of rape for failing to heed a woman's call to stop, even after she initially had given consent.
The case involved two male high school teenagers who engaged in consensual sex with a female community college student in an isolated area of a parking lot. The woman engaged in allegedly consensual sex with one of the teenagers and advised the second teenager that he could also have sex with her, until her told her to stop. According to the woman, the second teenager attempted to penetrate her, with some difficulty, and continued to try to penetrate her for approximately five seconds after she said "stop." He stopped at that time, she subsequently gave him her telephone number, and the three of them drove off to a point where she dropped them off and picked up a girlfriend.
The first teenage boy pled guilty to second-degree rape and was sentenced to eighteen (18) months in prison; the second boy was convicted at trial of first-degree rape and other crimes and sentenced to fifteen (15) years in prison.
Under previous case law, as decided by the same Court in 1980, the boys' actions would not have constituted rape. In that 1980 case the court held:
Given the fact that consent must precede penetration, it follows in our view that although a woman may have consented to a sexual encounter, even to intercourse, if that consent is withdrawn prior to the act of penetration, then it cannot be said that she has consented to sexual intercourse. On the other hand, ordinarily if she consents prior to penetration and withdraws the consent following penetration, there is no rape.
In your opinion can a woman withdraw consent during intercourse? Is it rape if the man persists for five seconds? Two? How about if he completes a single, final downstroke before withdrawal?
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/crime/bal-te.md.rape17apr17,0,5827288,full.story
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/04/22/mg.morrow.eiglarsh.int.cnn
http://mdcourts.gov/opinions/coa/2008/14a07.pdf | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 3:43:29 AM | | hi there, personaly l say yes, if the lady has given her consent to having sex and then just as you enter her she says no l cant do this and ask you to stop and you say no way and keep going then yes l would expect to get done for Rape. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 4:59:53 AM | This issue created quite a heated debate in my home--it just blows my mind that it's even an issue.
How is it that another human being can/should have more rights, control, or freedoms over my body than I do?
I don't care what has transpired, my body is MY body and when I'm done sharing it with you, my decision to stop sharing better be respected. Ain't an orgasm in this world---that means YOURS-- more important than my ownership (control, etc.) of my body.
That aside, when you cease to accept what I express to you, you're no longer respecting me and we're no longer sharing the act of making love.
That aside, too, if you're not a rapist, why would you want to continue on with someone that's decided they're done, that no longer wishes to have sex with you?
While I'm here, I'd like to also address all the moaning I've heard about how a man can't stop once he's in. How is it then that he's able to change positions, or tease her with pulling out and then slowly entering her again, or tease her clit with the head of his penis? Please, please--don't even try it cause it just doesn't wash! I guarantee you that if she was rocking your world one minute and then attempted to change whatever she was doing to do something better, but it involved stopping for a moment to get the new idea going, you'd be just fine with it! Or, if she did something offensive to you, such as attempting to insert something in your back side, you'd stop lickity split, and this is no different. It's selfish to cease to pay any regard or respect to what the other person decides is right for them!
I'm just stunned that a person can truly believe that their right to an orgasm, or completed sex act--whatever, trumps their partner's wishes, control, rights, etc. Just stunned!
I just wonder...how differently would you see this if it were happening to your daughter, sister, mother? What if she came to the decision that she was participating in something she couldn't handle, had made a huge mistake, and wanted to correct it as best she could? Would his orgasm trump her need to do the right thing for herself?
None of us are so perfect that we make the very best decisions for ourselves 24/7.
Granted, a woman can rightfully be called a prick tease, a bytch, an immature fukker with a princess mentality, whatever---and perhaps you should get up and walk away, never to return. That's her consequence, and in my mind, a much less bitter pill to swallow than being disrespected, ignored, and used in a manner that is the very opposite of what sharing in sex is all about, by someone that irresponsibly and selfishly decides to go solo cause it's all about them....and having your ass hauled into court for rape just because you thought you could and should determine how things should be for another human being.
And, since none of us are able to get inside the head of another so as to determine if they really meant what they said, it's best to just accept whatever they expressed. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 5:07:19 AM | This has never happened to me before but, I can see a time where both parties will have to have attorneys present to witness and record each sexual encounter. It's getting ridiculous.
Seems to me that if a woman can charge a guy with rape if she changes her mind after she has already consented and started the act, the guy should be able to charge her with alienation of affection, and sue her for emotional damages and physical distress. Tit for tat.
It IS rather painful to get started then have to stop.
Whatever happened to, " Please stop....don't.........don't.... stop...stop....don't....stop...........don't stop...don't stop, OH GOD! DON"T STOP, DON"T STOP...PLEEEASE DON"T STOP!!!"? | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 5:17:18 AM |
I'm just stunned that a person can truly believe that their right to an orgasm, or completed sex act--whatever, trumps their partner's wishes, control, rights, etc. Just stunned!
I just wonder...how differently would you see this if it were happening to your daughter, sister, mother? What if she came to the decision that she was participating in something she couldn't handle, had made a huge mistake, and wanted to correct it as best she could? Would his orgasm trump her need to do the right thing for herself?
Granted, a woman can rightfully be called a prick tease, a bytch, an immature fukker with a princess mentality, whatever---and perhaps you should get up and walk away, never to return.
^^^Agree.
All situations are different, but using a bit of common sense it should be obvious to anyone, male or female. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 5:25:20 AM |
I don't care what has transpired, my body is MY body and when I'm done sharing it with you, my decision to stop sharing better be respected. Ain't an orgasm in this world---that means YOURS-- more important than my ownership (control, etc.) of my body.
That aside, when you cease to accept what I express to you, you're no longer respecting me and we're no longer sharing the act of making love.
That aside, too, if you're not a rapist, why would you want to continue on with someone that's decided they're done, that no longer wishes to have sex with you?
Because it is downright painful! As far as respect goes, respect is a two way street. I take it that you think you're the only one of the two who deserves respect?
Granted, a woman can rightfully be called a prick tease, a bytch, an immature fukker with a princess mentality, whatever---and perhaps you should get up and walk away, never to return.
If you had two balls suddenly full of semen from an uncompleted sexual encounter, you would know that getting up and walking away is NOT an option. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 5:44:56 AM | Political correctness strikes again.
I can't wait until it gets to the point where people have to draw up contracts and have them signed and notarized prior to sex to make sure it's all good and legal.
Just wait, it's coming.
Between the abortion issue and a woman's "prerogative to change her mind" at any given moment, people will eventually squeeze all of the natural enjoyment out of sex and reduce it to a merely a legal act of business between two consenting parties.
"Yes, Mrs. Jones, I believe we can agree to those terms. I'll contact your attorney and we'll get everything squared away. Happy porking." | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 6:00:23 AM | Wow I don't envy men in this day and age. I can't believe how the system will cater to mentally unstable people who make bad decisions then regret them, by coddling them and promoting the idea they were "raped". Not to mention the women that use this fact for their own reasons - ill will, clear their name/rep, etc.
We're responsible for our own actions. Even those with mental health issues. WTF, why are women OK with this? Are we so incapable that we need the courts to step in and treat us like weak victims unable to make our own decisions or take care of ourselves?
I'm not talking about bona fide sexual assault. But we ALL know (whether we want to admit it or not) that many many men are losing their freedom and reputations, who have not raped or sexually assaulted anybody.
The reality that nobody wants to talk about is that society still discourages females from empowering their sexuality, and promotes inhibition - many women are fighting a primal urge vs "but I'm not supposed to do/like that" battle...some go ahead and do their adventuring but then suffer REGRET...and we all know that give someone some time to ponder a mistake they've made and most often, they'll find a way to absolve themselves of blame/responsibility...and then off to jail he goes.
FOR REAL sexual assault can mess people up and course it's wrong. I just believe women who buy into the finding-reasons-to-call-it-rape thing are not doing anyone any favour, especially women...if you respect your gender then hold your fellow sisters responsible for their behavior. That way you empower women, not cheer on the helpless victim mindset, incapable of making her own sexual decisions.
Reading the forums and seeing the level of oppression that a lot of women promote, makes me wonder if women aren't doing this to ourselves...judging and blasting women who are comfortable with their sexuality and heaven forbid IN CHARGE of it, being called up - no wonder some women without the mental fortitude to say "who cares what you say" are regretting doing a little adventuring and thinking they're a bad person afterwards. Live and let live would go a long way here. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 6:04:23 AM | | I'm 100% behind Funny Girl on this one. Some men are mean in bed, some lack total affection, some are in the act only for themselves and use the woman as some sort of blow up doll ... what women wants to take this mentality any further as it isn't humor it's cruel. Some women like this style and to those of whom don't why should we endure the unpleasant experience. This part of the love scene isn't experienced until after the consent has been given. Yet again some men are great lovers. Never know what the package contents until it's opened. When sex isn't fun and loving it isn't worth happening. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 6:21:46 AM |
That aside, too, if you're not a rapist, why would you want to continue on with someone that's decided they're done, that no longer wishes to have sex with you?
Because it is downright painful! As far as respect goes, respect is a two way street. I take it that you think you're the only one of the two who deserves respect?
Please tell me you don't actually spout that foolishness in real life.
Cowboy | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 6:32:56 AM | And I suppose you think it's not childish for a woman to get you started then change her mind? Seems to me, you guys are too busy worrying about the woman's feelings, and ignoring your own.
But then again, as many women as I've been with over the years, that has never happened to me once. Honestly, I don't know how I'd react. OTOH, some have wanted me to stop only because they got sore, but by then I'd already ejaculated a couple times, so it didn't matter. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 6:52:00 AM | Yeah, I'm going to have to say that I agree that this might start getting ridiculus. I have no problem with someone changing there mind, but at some point, there has to be some point of no return.
After this, you really want to know what sex is going to be like? Watch this video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q-gu6s0eGOk | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 6:55:59 AM |
And I suppose you think it's not childish for a woman to get you started then change her mind? Seems to me, you guys are too busy worrying about the woman's feelings, and ignoring your own.
I think we need to discuss issues of MAGNITUDE. A woman tells me that she thinks I *have* to stop eating chicken wings because it's bad for cholesterol, tells me that I have to stop hiking/hunting/or cut my hair, I will very willingly "hurt her feelings" by disagreeing with her and continuing on as always.
But, and here's the important bit... If I am INSIDE HER BODY, or about to be, it's all about what she's comfortable with. And if she feels rushed, unsure, or maybe was drinking and now she's sobering up, and having a WTF moment that's the rules of the park, bud, game's over, take your bat back to the dugout, bang your cleats over in the corner if you have to ;-).
I have ZERO interest in having sex with anyone that is going to be thinking about it the rest of the day/week with shame or regret. Sorry,we only do the "silly grin on her face" stuff here ;-). Life is far too short to have, or cause, bad sex.
Cowboy | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 7:14:10 AM |
I have ZERO interest in having sex with anyone that is going to be thinking about it the rest of the day/week with shame or regret. Sorry,we only do the "silly grin on her face" stuff here ;-). Life is far too short to have, or cause, bad sex.
I agree totally. I've just never ever had that happen to me before. Every woman I've ever went to bed with, wanted to be there. And it's been a very long time since jr highschool, but yes, there were those girls that would only go so far (understandably), and I'd have to go home and "beat my cleats in the corner" (that's funny!), but since then, no. Hasn't happened. In rereading the story the OP posted, I just realized we were talking about highschool girls. And that's different. But I wouldn't expect that at all from older, more experienced women. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 7:25:21 AM |
I just realized we were talking about highschool girls. And that's different. But I wouldn't expect that at all from older, more experienced women.
Ah, dude, the problem here is that by the time women reach our age, these "older, more experienced women"... some of those experiences they had weren't so good, and we have to accept that it all comes as a package...
Cowboy | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 7:31:40 AM | i like to think of myself as a right on feminist... but in this instance i would say that this is a waste of court time and a travesty of justice... two lives wrecked for no good reason...
what colour were all those involved... it seems to be the case in your country over most of its history that if you are white you can maybe get away with shooting your wife dead or a gang rape captured on video... while if you are black you can go to the gas chamber cos you had a confession beaten out of you or evidence planted... | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 7:43:18 AM |
Lost Cowboy:
But, and here's the important bit... If I am INSIDE HER BODY, or about to be, it's all about what she's comfortable with. And if she feels rushed, unsure, or maybe was drinking and now she's sobering up, and having a WTF moment that's the rules of the park, bud, game's over, take your bat back to the dugout, bang your cleats over in the corner if you have to ;-).
Glad to see that common sense ruled the day finally. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 7:55:02 AM | To me the case is outrageous. 15 years in prison for 5 seconds ? Where they black ? And was she white ? Coz to me that seems VERY harsh. You could kill someone and get less than that. It was not exactly rape and battery. Women have got it made, one word and they can make any mans life HELL. It’s seem like the women on POF like to pretend they have no power so they can't be accountable for how they use it.
The funny thing is some of these same women need to go to a Muslim country like Iraq, Saudia Arabia or Rwanda over there you will see REAL oppression of women, but over in industrialized nations. I don’t buy it so much. Besides what about the reverse ? Have you ever tried saying 'no' to your girlfriend if she wants sex ? Trust me, her reaction won't be pretty “If you tell your girlfriend 'no’ I don't feel like having sex tonight”, she will loathe you for it. Women think their sexuality is worth more than a man’s sexuality. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 8:09:30 AM | Hey I agree Trilby, I mean, seriously 5 seconds? I wasn't there, I don't know the specifics, and I haven't read the court transcripts but while a lot can happen in five seconds, what if he just plain didn't hear her? What if it just didn't sink in? I mean, if he was holding her down, and she was screaming stop stop STOP and he didn't stop, then yeah, nail his ass to the wall.
There have been times when I've been so focused on what I'm doing I don't hear the phone ring, someone knocking at my door, or even someone coming up behind me. For that matter, when I worked in an office I had someone talk to me for about 2 minutes before I even realized they were talking to me.
I've often been with women and in the heat of passion they say stop stop I can't take it anymore ooooooh don't stop don't stop ...........so is that rape too? I mean, I've had women say stuff like "treat me like the nasty whore I am"...does that mean she's really a nasty whore? No, stuff gets said all the time in the heat of passion.
Hey, yes, he should have stopped and the point is: he did and she even went so far as to get a lift from them. Is this something a woman who was raped does? Get a ride with their rapist?
Something is missing from the story that we aren't reading IMO. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 8:25:02 AM | If a woman experiences a schizophrenic or bi-polar moment during consensual sexual intercourse and says NO, the guy has to respect that sentiment. Unfortunately there is a TON of grey area in situations like this--this is why lawyers have jobs.
Lots of that gray area would not be there if women would say YES when they mean yes and NO when they mean no. Still that's not an excuse for any true rape to occur.
There NEVER is an excuse for rape. That being said, there probably are lots of rape cases in courts that are a waste of taxpayer money where there aren't any tangible forensic evidence links or credible witnesses. Again unfortunately the gray area is huge.
By the way it is rape if the guy changes his mind during sex, but I doubt we'll see many or any cases like that. | |
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