| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/23/2008 7:47:00 AM | To believe in science:
When we die, our memories, all that makes us individuals quickly disintergrates and our bodies rot to dust.
So, in the short term, there's not much purpose in living unless you pass on your genes.
Long term, scientist tells us, the sun, which is not even half way through it's 14billion year life span, is still getting hotter and in a few 100million years, planet earth will be too hot to sustain life.
Even if we manage to develope new technology to cope, the sun is going to explode when its runs out of energy, engulfing the Earth, which would mean that there is no real purpose to life at all.
It is a very scary thought to most: The fact that you're pretty insignificant in the greater scheme of things.
So is this what ultimately fuels religion? Religion gives a feeling of belonging and possible continuation? | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/23/2008 8:04:18 AM | | You know my heart goes out to folks like you because you seem to be in a state of arrogance in thinking that you have the answers to life and death.Science is a hypothesis put to word with drawings to help drive home the point.Yes science has done good but it does not have all the answers.Also the fact that you state that we are pretty insignificant in the scheme of things is troubling because it could be read as you saying you don't feel like you have a reason for being here.When you let God into your life then you learn inner peace and you no longer fear the unknown so I pray that you let God in. | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/23/2008 8:13:52 AM | I beg to differ.
This is a case of seeing IS believing. Even an amature astronomist can look into the night sky and see suns exploding...but I digress.
If you re-read what is written it was just a conclusion of modern scientific beliefs followed by 2 question, neither of which you answered | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/23/2008 8:16:31 AM | | I am agnostic. So I do not know if there is a god or not. I will say I would love to believe there is I just dont have that deep faith everyone talks about. But as for your comments. You use science as a basis to give up. Why? Why not do the opposite? No reason to go on? OK yes the sun will explode big deal. If you take your time line we have atleast 100 million years before life is unbearable here. Do you think we will be able to colonize other planets by then? I do.So dont use science as a harbinger of doom use it as a beacon of hope.lol Thats cheesy huh | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/23/2008 8:30:35 AM | vindicated915:
I'm agnostic too and like you, I would dearly love to believe but my logic wont let me.
I guess my opening post does come across has forebodding, sorry about that but I believe that if there is no ultimate purpose then we should embrace every minute of the life we have now.
To use an analogy: If life IS just a roller coaster ride then you might as well enjoy it because it will always come to an end. | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/23/2008 8:34:43 AM |
It is a very scary thought to most: The fact that you're pretty insignificant in the greater scheme of things.
So is this what ultimately fuels religion? Religion gives a feeling of belonging and possible continuation? Not for me. For me, religion starts with a few questions:
1) Is there or isn't there a G-d?
2) What type of G-d is it?
3) What effect does G-d make on the world?
4) Did G-d prescribe any religion?
5) Which one did G-d prescribe?
6) How did G-d prescribe the following and practise of that religion?
To me, only AFTER those questions have been answered, does religion become a valid system. You can still involve yourself in a religion in order to explore that religion, to find out what it states, and whether the answers of that religion answers those questions, but you can only choose to follow a religion once you've answered those questions to the best of your ability.
The irony is that as long as I avoided religion, I was able to avoid my fears and my insignificance. It was religion that forced me to acknowledge that if I don't face my fears, then at some point, I will go against what G-d would want, and that by knowledge and awareness of G-d, I have to face the fact that comparative to G-d, I am incredibly insignificant.
The only way I can see that religion allows you to avoid fear and the feeling of humbling insignificance, is if you just involve yourself in a religion, but make no real attempt to answer the above questions. If you do that, then you've never really decided if that religion is true. Your beliefs would be quite similar to an agnostic, who is just trying different things out. | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/23/2008 8:37:55 AM | | Right did not get that from your original post. True you should live life to the fullest. But personnally I think we should try to help others now and for the future. Just as a matter of well morals? | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/23/2008 8:48:38 AM | What a depressing summation of "life". "There's not much purpose in living unless you pass on your genes"? That kinda sucks for childless and/or infertile people? As for death, even if someone doesn't believe in an afterlife, surely they can live a full life and enjoy life, find purpose, and have a positive outlook. And don't blame it on "science". Purpose is about attitude. I know lots and lots of people who believe in science (and don't have religion) who enjoy life and live purposefully.
As for the long term prospects for humanity, regardless of an afterlife, I don't worry about it. It's not like the sun is going to go out any time real soon, or that I can do anything to stop it. It is what it is. I have enough crap to deal with today without letting an event 100,000,000+ years in the future concern me.
As for being pretty insignificant in the scheme of things, maybe. But what do I care? It's a matter of perspective. | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/23/2008 9:07:20 AM | spearheadfish wrote:
You know my heart goes out to folks like you because you seem to be in a state of arrogance in thinking that you have the answers to life and death.Science is a hypothesis put to word with drawings to help drive home the point.Yes science has done good but it does not have all the answers.Also the fact that you state that we are pretty insignificant in the scheme of things is troubling because it could be read as you saying you don't feel like you have a reason for being here.When you let God into your life then you learn inner peace and you no longer fear the unknown so I pray that you let God in.
I agree with most of this except the "letting god into your life" bit.
It is very arrogant to think science can answer everything and there is still nobody who can prove or disprove 'a higher existence'.
I'm not religious or a god fanatic but what I do know of the universe from the nature around us to the cosmic enourmity that surrounds us I find it hard to believe we are here by chance and chance alone. Unless there are an infinite number of universes in which case I will live forever in one of those universes. | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/23/2008 9:15:38 AM | Unless there are an infinite number of universes in which case I will live forever in one of those universes.
faith is the belief in the eternal.science has only being able to state that something is eternal.it is scientifical impossible to define the eternal.ask a scientist to define "faith"in purely scientific terms.after doing so,ask yourself how you can have complete faith in science. | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/23/2008 10:00:27 AM |
I don't feel insignificant. With or without religion, a person's journey on this planet can have deep meaning and leave a
significant impact on those left behind once they're gone. It's all a matter of perception in my opinion.
No, I haven't discovered anything new or written a best seller novel or solved any great mystery, but I still get to leave my
tiny footprints behind.
The essence of me, however small and insignificant it might seem to some, will still be here for a while if not forever even
after I'm long buried and gone.
It will continue to live in my children and my grandchildren and their children. But having children is not necessary to leave
your footprint or your essence behind IMO.
Your "essence" is sprinkled on everyone you come in contact with and on everything you do throughout your entire life.
I call it the butterfly effect (not an original thought I know but it works).
Every kind gesture or word of kindness freely given to someone has an impact on that person's life.
And the same goes for every mean or unkind word or action that we do or that comes out of our mouth.
Even the words I've written on these boards might be read some day by someone who will be either uplifted
or saddened by them.
So no, I don't feel insignificant at all and I feel sorry for anyone who might feel this way. I also have no fear of death.
I know it might be hard to believe, but I have absolutely no fears or worries in not being here anymore - to each their own.
JMHO | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/23/2008 11:03:24 AM | A therory is a belief based on unproven evidence.
Faith is belief based on unproven evidence.
As for reality all we really have is the limited view our senses are able to preceive?
Faith / therory both attempt to go beyond that. So rather it is a scientific theory or religion faith is required. Both attempt to answer questions. If you go to Creation in the 21 century there is creation science. There is no reason why science and religion can't coexist.
Jim B
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/23/2008 11:16:34 AM | Who the hell lives their lives concerned about the energy death of the universe. The reality is that most healthy individuals, find meaning in the relationships and activities they take part in.
I much better argument could be made that the belief in god is based on the idea of not accepting your own personal death, which I think occupies many more people than the idea of the species being exctint in some far off future. | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/23/2008 11:29:04 AM |
Faith is belief based on unproven evidence.
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
The description that is used for faith in Wikepedia is not the same as what faith is described as what is meant by faithin the scriptures.
By biblical definition, faith is both evidence and substance, therefore, faith proves faith to be real.
In order to understand what faith even is, faith must first be experienced in reality. Faith is not to be confused with hope, nor should it be confused with intellectual beliefs.
True faith spawns a true belief, and this denotes an inner trust within mankind. If the deep inner trust is not present, then faith is not at work.
Faith is a living and present spiritual reality of the risen Christ, faith is not a religion. Those who have Christ have the gift of faith. There is no such thing as faith without Christ. | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/23/2008 11:40:30 AM | Pro 25:2
It is the glory of GOD to conceal a thing but the honor of kings to search out a matter.
1Th 5:21
"Prove all things hold fast that which is good".
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Faith isn't blind acceptance.
Jim B | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/24/2008 11:17:41 AM |
So is this what ultimately fuels religion? Religion gives a feeling of belonging and possible continuation?
I guess these posts have answered your question, OP.
The answer being yes religion is fueled by giving people a purpose of belonging and/or continued life so that they feel some kind of significance in the greater scheme of things.
We all 'matter' to some degree.... but some folks need external confirmation to be able to feel so. | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 4/25/2008 7:26:45 PM | So, in the short term, there's not much purpose in living unless you pass on your genes.
Actually I have lots to live for:
Good sex
Good food
Good music
Knowledge
Sunsets
Pride in accomplishing a difficult task
Good books
Good movies
Guinness
Cabernet Sauvignon
Chocolate
Fencing
Photography
The Yankees losing
Chess
Martial Arts
Humor
Etc.
It seems to me that if there is a god then life is meaningless. All that matters is the afterlife, and the afterlife has none of the above.
I hope that if there is a god it's the Flying Spaghetti Monster, because at least His Heaven has a Beer Volcano and a Stripper Factory. | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 5/2/2008 2:17:33 PM |
I hope that if there is a god it's the Flying Spaghetti Monster, because at least His Heaven has a Beer Volcano and a Stripper Factory.
I would prefer to see a whisky volcano and a fireman stripper factory. Dang.
Hmm.... then again.... it is my personal fantasy, so why the hell not.
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 5/2/2008 4:37:38 PM | There is no reason to believe in God to have a successful ungood/unevil existence.
We maybe just here as cars to carry the bacteria around and therefore here merely to replicate DNA. If that is the case, I wouldn't go looking for serious answers anymore.
As for God. Has anyone heard of the Sistine brain? That is that the painting on the ceiling of the Sistine chapel is not that of God putting the spark of life into Adam, but Adam conceiving God from an anatomical depiction, albeit stylised, of the human brain. The conceit being that God stems from the mind of man. | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 5/2/2008 5:27:21 PM | I do not agree with the topic heading. Belief in God simply means not excepting reality.
To me and many in this world "God is a reality"
Sorry I do not agree with the OP "that we are pretty insignificant in the greater scheme of things". I know each and everyone one of us is very significant to ourselves and many others. There have been great men and great women that have helped paved and molded humanity as we have seen it today. Even the common person, not ever known in history just mothers and fathers that have lived, worked and died. Shall not die in vain. Each and everyone that ever lived is as important as any king or queen that have ever lived.
Mankind has always belonged to some kind of group or people. Why would that ever change? There are groups that do not believe in a God and feel like they belong with those of their same beliefs. Insignifcant you say ..... Then was Martian Luther King insignifcant or Babe Ruth or George Washington or your own mother and father, brother or sister? Or that baby in the carriage crying to sleep or the one smiling at you, a total stranger in the store with their eyes full of innocence. I am sure there are people in your own life that have done something to change the way you think and act or that you will just never forget. | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 5/2/2008 7:30:20 PM | Ocelot Tango:
As for God. Has anyone heard of the Sistine brain? That is that the painting on the ceiling of the Sistine chapel is not that of God putting the spark of life into Adam, but Adam conceiving God from an anatomical depiction, albeit stylised, of the human brain. The conceit being that God stems from the mind of man.
Yes, the background behind God in "The Creation of Adam" is modeled after the human brain.
However, if you mean to imply that Michelangelo himself intended the painting to show God as proceeding from man instead of vice versa (instead of that being only your own belief), then you would probably get an F in an art class. Among other reasons, "The Creation of Adam" is only in the middle of a series of paintings about Creation. The ones that precede it feature God creating the cosmos and other life. Also, though he had his quirks, Michelangelo himself was a profoundly religious individual. | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 5/4/2008 9:17:18 PM | Theism is reality for those who are theists.
Atheism is reality for those who are atheists.
Agnosticism is reality for those who are agnostics.
Judaism is reality for those who are Jewish.
Any religion or non religion is reality for its adherents.
But then again.
No one see reality for what it is, only what we think it is. | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not excepting reality?
Posted: 5/5/2008 1:00:14 AM | I sometimes believe that all religions came into being from a certain process.
A number of people experienced enough to see truths in relationships between things.
These observations lead to a belief that mankind's presence should change for the better.
There were still many unanswered questions created from only having limited observations to go by, and so internalization lead them into creating answers based on the ideals their life's experiences helped to create.
That every religion as a result has truths.
The goal was a betterment according to unanimous ideals.
They were only based on localized understandings proven to be true.
They had limited knowledge and many unanswered questions at the time.
The unanswered questions, have been answered through internalization.
Although I believe there is truth to each religion, there is also a great deal of misdirection and a need to further it's accuracy through continued learning and understanding. I also think we have to stop relating everything to ourselves. | |
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| Belief in god: Simply a matter of not accepting reality?
Posted: 5/5/2008 9:36:19 PM | Why must it be either/or??
A person can accept reality while also believing in a higher power...
There is a lot in this world I cannot change or control, so I work to accept it.. to adapt and adjust as necessary... responding by changing myself when I cannot change the circumstances...
The portion I can control I view like a "choose your own adventure" novel that I write with God.... I never know where the next chapter will lead because I am only co-author... it makes my life full and exciting!
Just as there is the hard concrete factual portion of reality, there is also the subjective reality that we each weave in our own unique patterns... the two ultimately play off of one another and we get to choose how. Fascinating :) | |
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