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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 12:54:06 AM | First let me start off this thread like this. Yes, most of the you are taxpayers. you have your right to your own opinion. But honestly, you have not the first idea about iraq. You just know that the soldiers are over there and it is costing you money. Well guess what folks. ive been over here for a while, and im coming back over here. I talk and conversate with Iraqi's every single day. So let me tell ya my piece and then you can say whatever you want:
1. In every major conflict in our history, War time = great time for our economy. anyone wonder why that isnt the case right now? Because of one major reason. KBR. Some of your know this to be hallaburtion. (spell?). Anyways, a typical KBR worker that, lets say, does soldiers laundry....makes somewhere around 6 to 8 grand a month, tax free. so around 80 grand a year. compared to a soldier's pay...lets say a fresh e-4, 3 years in service, married, with kids, and a mortage, drawing all special pays possible.....he will pull at best, $3800 a month. 8 grand to 3800.........wow, can u tell a difference? Ok, so civilians need more insentives to come to a war zone to support their troops. Except wait a minute. 60% of KBR employees are not U.S. Citizens. They are TCN's (third country nationals). So we are paying an assload of money out to other countries citizens who will not be putting the money back into the economy. Oh yeah. And the reason i concentrate on KBR so much....is that is all i see over here doing half-ass construction and assraping soldiers......btw. guess who used to be CEO of KBR....you got it.....Mr.**** our VP
2. Among the popular confusion, in iraq, it is not a "WAR ON TERRIORISM". that is Afganistan. However, popular marketing skills by the administration by naming iraq "Iraqi Freedom" and afganistan "Enduring Freedom" makes it sound like the same thing. It is not. Afganistan is for Al-Quida, Iraq was for Saddam. that is why there is 8 times more troops in Iraq then their is in afghanistan. Where it should be the opposite. Oh
yeah, about those guys. did you know they werent really in iraq before we invaded. Saddam was really trying to avoid conflicts with us, knowing what would happen. but when your president you can do just about anything. and make the mindless american citizens believe whatever you want to. With the exception of Saddam being a royal ***hole, it was pretty peaceful over here. no car bombings. no IED's....no suicide bombings. at least not on the same scale as it is today. Oh yeah those IEDs........those are munitions that came from the "invasion" days, 5 years ago. they just didnt explode like they were suppose to.
3. This place will never change. I dont give a **** how long we are here. might as well, hit dodge right now. As i spoke to an interpretor one day, he said......those sunni's (learn islam and come back here). they are disgusting, they are worthless. and i asked if he could get along with them peacefully. No. that was the answer. this isnt going to end by our hand. get used to it guys.
Over all, mainly because im tired of writing......This is the lowest approving, highest corrupted administration ive ever seen. but as Jesse Ventura said, we will always lose until we pick a independent. now it is just who is the lesser of three evils.....Clinton, Obama, or Mccain.....and im sorry, ill move to cananda before i vote mccain. but hey, you voted for bush TWICE. so who knows. | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 1:37:45 AM | Brother I have place and a job for you when you get your ass home...
So many of us have know the truth from the begining. You keep your head down, your powder dry, learn your craft. Then bring it back home, it time overthrow this piece of shit government. It may not be in our day, but you can pass on the training and knowlage.... | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 2:07:15 AM | By MICHAEL GOLDFARB
Published: December 17, 2006
Regardless of how the war ends, Iraq is not Vietnam. This is true not just militarily and politically but also in the reporting about the two conflicts. For many journalists who covered Vietnam and subsequently wrote books about the war, the experience could be understood only as a hallucinogenic nightmare, and they described it in gonzo prose to match. The reality of Iraq is much more frightening than a bad acid trip, but the writing about this continuing fiasco has been cleareyed and sober, and all the more powerful for it. Rajiv Chandrasekaran’s “Imperial Life in the Emerald City: Inside Iraq’s Green Zone” is a fine example.
Erik T. Johnson
IMPERIAL LIFE IN THE EMERALD CITY
Inside Iraq’s Green Zone.
By Rajiv Chandrasekaran.
320 pp. Alfred A. Knopf. $25.95.
Readers’ Opinions
Forum: Book News and Reviews
This book tells the bureaucratic story of Iraq’s Year 1, the year after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, when the United States was the legal occupying power and responsible for the country’s administration. The primary mechanism for that work was the Coalition Provisional Authority, headquartered in the Green Zone, a blast-barrier-encased compound created around Hussein’s Baghdad palace, on the west bank of the Tigris. Chandrasekaran, The Washington Post’s Baghdad bureau chief during this period, catalogs a lethal combination of official arrogance and ineptitude behind those walls that doomed Iraq to its bloody present every bit as much as insufficient military manpower did.
To begin with, the C.P.A.’s recruitment policy would have shamed Tammany Hall. Loyalty to George W. Bush and the Republican Party was apparently the prime criterion for getting work at the C.P.A. To determine their suitability for positions in Iraq, some prospective employees were asked their views on Roe v. Wade. Others were asked whom they voted for in 2000. Republican congressmen, conservative think tanks and party activists were all solicited by the White House’s liaison at the Pentagon, James O’Beirne, to suggest possible staffers.
Before the war began, Frederick M. Burkle Jr. was assigned to oversee Iraq’s health care system. He had a résumé to die for: a physician with a master’s degree in public health, and postgraduate degrees from Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth and Berkeley. He also had two bronze stars for military service in the Navy, as well as field experience with the Kurds in northern Iraq after the 1991 gulf war. A week after the liberation, he was told he was being replaced because, Chandrasekaran writes, “a senior official at USAID told him that the White House wanted a ‘loyalist’ in the job.”
That loyalist was James K. Haveman Jr., who had been recommended by the former Michigan governor John Engler. Haveman’s résumé included running a Christian adoption agency that counseled young women against abortions. He spent much of his time in Iraq preparing to privatize the state-owned drug supply firm — perhaps not the most important priority since almost every hospital in the country had been thoroughly looted in the days after Hussein was overthrown.
On page after page, Chandrasekaran details other projects of the C.P.A.’s bright young Republican ideologues — like modernizing the Baghdad stock exchange, or quickly privatizing every service that had previously been provided by the state. Some of these ideas would have been laudable if they were being planned for a country with functioning power and water supplies, and that wasn’t tottering on the brink of anarchy.
But how could these young Americans have known what life was like for ordinary Iraqis since they never left the Green Zone? Instead, they turned the place into something like a college campus. After a hard day of dreaming up increasingly improbable projects, the kids did what kids do — headed for the bar and looked for a hookup. As for the Iraqis, they were conspicuous by their absence.
Presiding over this unreal world was the American viceroy, L. Paul Bremer III, who comes across in this book as a man who has read one C.E.O. memoir too many, a man who knew his mind and would not have his decisions changed by the inconvenient reality of Iraqi life just outside the blast barriers. All of this would be funny in a Joseph Heller kind of way if tens of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of American soldiers weren’t to die because of the decisions made by the C.P.A., the Pentagon and the White House.
In Chandrasekaran’s account, all the arrogance, stubbornness and desire for career advancement crystallized at the end of March 2004, when Bremer decided to shut down a newspaper published by the radical Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr. With typical high-handedness, he made the decision without thinking through the possible consequences. He had no military backup plan if Sadr decided to fight and, predictably, Sadr’s Mahdi Army did fight back. Within a few days four American private security operatives were ambushed and killed in Falluja, their mutilated bodies hung from a bridge over the Euphrates. Suddenly, a year after overthrowing Hussein, the United States was fighting Shiite insurgents on one front and Sunni insurgents on another. This is the one and only time that the American military appears in Chandrasekaran’s otherwise civilian story, but his description of the skirmish between a platoon from the Army’s First Cavalry Division and Mahdi Army fighters is absolutely brilliant. It is eyewitness history of the first order.
If there is one thing missing from this account it is the author himself. Reading a 300-page book is a bit like driving across country with a stranger you’ve met through a message board. By the time you reach the Mississippi you hope to know your traveling companion reasonably well. That’s not the case here. Chandrasekaran’s personal views are absent until almost the very end of the book.
I think I understand why. He is adhering to the professional code of journalism: reporting facts with scrupulous neutrality and objectivity. However, I sometimes think that the relentless political attacks on the professionalism of reporters in Iraq have forced them to take a very narrow view of what that neutrality and objectivity mean. Those of us who have covered the invasion and its aftermath have an obligation not only as journalists but as citizens. We have had a privileged view of these epoch-defining events (and we didn’t get our jobs by taking litmus tests on abortion). We have a duty to bear passionate, accurate, personal witness — to be something more than mere compilers of facts.
It would have been worthwhile if Chandrasekaran had given us a greater sense of what he thought about overthrowing Hussein and, more to the point, what he felt upon returning to Washington after having seen the bloody result of its policies. But that is a philosophical difference I have with the author. This is a clearly written, blessedly undidactic book. It should be read by anyone who wants to understand how things went so badly wrong in Iraq.
Its bad for you the American soldier..............and its worse for Iraqis . Don't be blaming some third world national for doing your laundry.............and believe me they don't get paid that amount.Thats why they are used -cheap .In fact your laundry is flown out to Kuwait where Iraqis could do it for you for peanuts.They have tomotoes and salads that the US does not buy even if its fresh,on the doorstep and cheap .The powers that be would rather pay CONTRACTORS astronomical amounts to fly in junk at a HUGE profit for them personally thereby fuelling the insurgency against the US .
The only people to suffer is the soldier and the Iraqi civilian who is unemployed to the tune of 50 % and struggling to live on $2 per day,per family. This report confirms what we in the UK hear from desperate Iraqi asylumseekers .
I hate to tell you this but it won't be over with the US withdrawing .Thats where it differs dramatically from Vietnam . It will change only when the US rebuilds Iraq back to its previous state and that means preventing the contractors making personal billions.
There is no doubt about this............the American Armed Forces won the Iraq War in stunning fashion but the politicians and contractors lost it for you with their greed. | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 2:54:35 AM | | overthrowing the government is a duty of ours, if and ONLY if it becomes unsavable. it is not yet. it is a LONGGGG way from there. right now we have stabbed ourselves in the leg. but we aint dead yet. besides, what kind of job? | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 3:03:07 AM | | Ok nick, to be honest, i didnt read all of your reply. mainly just the part where you wrote, and not the book quotes. On the TCN part, you are wrong. I do know for a fact that these TCNs are making alot of money. Trust me, they walk around here like hot shit. and the local iraqi's that run the very internet service im using, have 5 satelitte systems, and are pulling 100 bucks a month from each soldier that decides to use it. since it is really the only option to have in our living areas, we pay it. now to give you an idea of the number of soldiers at this fob, we are overcrowded by 7,000 american troops. take a while guess that these guys, who provide lack-luster service, are making 6 digits a month. the US has led the "Coalition" who all together hasnt come up with 10% of the numbers that we have. One day, the iraqi people have to learn to live life without other's holding their hands,, or someone else can rebuild a country. but exactly how do you rebuild a country, in which the inhabitants are constantly blowing up the new stuff | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 4:37:52 AM | The Iraqis didn't ask anyone to come and hold their hand or build them up.Left alone they were doing just fine....sanctions and all .Now Iraq has been blitzed to the stone age by the good old ALLIES.............thats why it needs to be built up .
The US govt and private contractors are to blame for the long term defeat......solely because of their selfish greed .These foriegn nationals get paid a pittance unless they provide security and then they get the figures you quote. .............for dicing with death.They don't get those amounts for washing your dirty clothes or cooking for you.Its still better than whatever they got at home but its a pittance for being in a war..............they work.........its not a G8 aid package as for Africa is it ?
But thats beside the point....point is.........................the war was won by the soldier and lost because of big egos and bigger greed by US govt contractors. | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 5:54:53 AM | I have to disagree with the concept that Iraq and Vietnam are not similar. the climates of both regions are problematic for our hi tech equipment. Both wars were nationalistic forces fighting against our occupation but portrayed as a clash of ideologies (the Domino Theory versus the caliphate). With the hated Kurds playing the role of the Montagnards/Hmongs (ie, fierce fighters hated by their neighbors). The proposed solution for both situations? An indigenous army that can't fight, gets beaten back the first poorly-planned invasion it makes, and is considered to be corrupt.
And the follow-up solution? to get the Pentagon to give up the Big War theory, and pursue counterinsurgency and winning hearts all over again...we've been here before.
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 6:16:33 AM | Combat Veteran
Thank you for your service and your perspective, we can armchair warrior all we want in the States and abroad, but I am going to trust your judgement and your candor over what the pundits, talking heads and joe 6 pack might be spinning.
As to the TCNs - you are absolutely right - they are well paid and I think 60% being foreign nationals may have been a generous simplification - the real number is likely much higher.
We were all sold a pack of lies - from an ordinary civilian like myself, to the Army trooper out there on the front lines. We DO have a legitimate cause to be in the Middle East, but as you said, the fight was never and should never have been in Iraq.
I don't have a hell of a lot to add right now. Im upset for you. Im actually very upset that I can't do more or for that matter, be there with you and everyone else doing the job.
All I can do is promise that I'll do my part to make sure this country doesn't do to you what it did to the service personnel of my father's generation in Vietnam - no matter the outcome, you are respected, you are revered and you deserve a place of honor and thanks among all Americans - no matter their opinion of the war.
Just stay safe, man. | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 6:19:46 AM | We need to pull out of there and leave the Iraqis alone so they can come together, heal, and rebuild.
- playing devil's advocate to your rather utopian fantasy, the reality is that when we pull out, we leave a chaotic country to her own devices, and to the devices of radical Islamic theocracies....think of Iraq as a gulliable 18 year old virgin all alone in Los Angeles for the first time - no shortage of conmen, subhumans and religious charletons (read Iran) will be inching for an opportunity to get into her pants.
end metaphor. | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 6:31:15 AM | | Combatvetern380, I really enjoyed your original post. Even as I became angry and sad (yet again) about the fiascoes of Iraq and our government, I enjoyed your honest perspective on same and thank you for speaking your truth. Unfortunately, I don't think Ventura's "elect an independent" answer is the answer. Politics in the U.S. is so married to money that the only independents who have a chance are ultra-rich. Their interests tend to line up less with yours and more with "VP RICHARD" et al. Otherwise, your comments are on the mark and again, thanks for speaking out. Stay safe and best wishes. | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 6:42:15 AM | Hello combatveteran,
I don't really know what your thread is about but...
I'm from the UK and agreed with the war for what the politicians told us, then disagreed with the war when the UN said there was no weapons of mass destruction. I have to point out that at first the politicians were claiming saddam was harbouring terrorist, but that was soon proved false and then they changed to WMD and that was proved (maybe not proved) false but they still did it anyway. Anyway, I was against the war when it actually started.
I sympathise with you. Your point 1 unfortunately that's life and you're a soldier. point 2 see above. point 3. It doesn't matter, it's the oil that's important. Remember it is money that is valued above you and all else, the war has cost a fortune (I believe it's into the trillions of dollars?). So some of that cost needs to be recouped.
I think there was a belief they could create another state like kuwait or saudi and pull out quite easily. We (the UK) were in that area for decades, we trained men in all the major states and in Oman and the smaller states. But it was done very subtley.
In my Opinion, the best thing to do is to pull out and let the UN take over like they should have done years ago. Which, is another point, it is disgusting the UN haven't gone in but if America withdrew the UN would be forced to act. Otherwise, you're going to be there for a long time.
Good luck, and we in the UK, have little faith that you lot will elect anybody other than McCain. | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 6:58:18 AM | what's after trillion? i seriously dont know, but im sure bush knows. maybe bill gates.....but anyways, the simple truth is, if we pull out, who does the UN have to support soemthing like this.
And no, to this point, over half a million troops have came over here.....not a single one has found any evidence to any WMDs but we did bring the terrorist over here. remember, terrorist come to you, you dont go to them. but honestly, the bush administration just wanted to come over here because daddy couldnt finish the job back in desert storm.
Isnt it funny how we can look back now and see how gullible we were? honestly tho, With the way bush has treated the economy, it brings the only thing the working class could hope for. job security in the military. lol. i never have to worry about money in the weak economy. of course, did anyone hear how much VP made this year on his taxes. do a little research.
The war here is over. Now we have nothing more but reconstruction and destruction. we build them something, and they destroy it. we should have come through and been out a long time ago.
one day, us americans will keep our hands to ourself. and that is not a play on the metaphor said earlier. i think the mid east has always had problems and a corrupt and greedy administration from the US will not stop that. maybe change their focus for a minute or two, but will not stop it. | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 7:05:27 AM |
what's after trillion? i seriously dont know
bushillions
who does the UN have to support soemthing like this.
You lot (the US) but you'll be wearing those bright blue helmets instead.
it's the flag - a US flag says occupation ,a UN flag says peace and rebuilding. | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 7:13:38 AM | it's the flag - a US flag says occupation ,a UN flag says peace and rebuilding
- really? in Somalia, the UN flag stood for ineptitude and failure. In the African Congo, it stood for avoidance and retreat. In Kosovo, it stands for let the churches burn and the Christians be intimidated.
No love here for the United Nations. | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 7:28:02 AM | combatvetern830,
Thanks for sharing your perspective from the front.
A lot of us here have been speaking out against this war, and we have for perhaps the last two years or more. Those of of that opposed it, almost always without exception, were attacked or belittled each time we attempted to do it.
Branded as "liberals" , "cut-and-runners" , defeatisst..... 
Branded by those who've been caught up in the web of deceit that's been one of the hallmarks of this war. Many times this opposition has been lead by those fiercely for this war, ironically many times the least well informed of the situation on the ground due to their limited focus - and the American media's hand in portraying a very different reality than those that are involved (like you) on the ground see.
We've talked about how the American military was forced into this position by politicians that promised failure - no matter how noble the great effort and sacrifice that men and women like you showed , and of the failure of leaders to match the competency of the men they lead.
Perhaps some of those naysayers will do some more research , now that someone who seems to know the situation from the inside has added his voice to the great body of evidence that's been presented here.
I'd like to thank you for doing that, and also thank you for your service there. I've read enough milblogs to come to know that servicemen there have shown their worth time and time again. They've suffered the loneliness of separation from country and loved ones. They've faced great danger. They've been the ones bearing the full brunt of this war for the last five years - along with the citizens of Iraq.
From your profile details, it's seems that you are a short timer. 
Not much time left to go in the Sandbox, before the journey home to be reunited with your loved ones. I trust that that journey will be a safe one.
See you stateside, and thanks again for your post. | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 8:02:20 AM | Yeah, if im going to be in the military, im going to be in it to defend my country, not fight a unwinnable, unjustified "war on terriorism". seriously, the terror card has been used more often by the bush administration then the race card by blacks (not african americans, because they are americans, plane and simple). And yeah, ill end up back here soon to continue on this bullshit because the economy is so horribly bad there isnt really a good job when i get home to go back to.
The US military is at ends with morale and fatigue. the national guard and reserves especially. no reservist had ever heard of the term "recovery period" or "stop-loss". because they were never needed. the military is extremely stressed. no human being is capable of acting normal for a year and then going battlemind for a year and back and forth.
oh yeah, we have media briefings. that is why we are always so upbeat and happy for the cameras. it means trouble if we speak our minds to cnn | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 8:26:41 AM | | theu.s needs to get out of there so the world can band together and fix the carnage of a greed infested war.thats why the u.s wont leave.i doubt very much that the political system of the U.S even has control of the situation.the administration that had bush as a puppet figure head was a company not a political party.probably now more powerfull than anyone country can be.these are people that never cared for others,they have being killing for the benefit of power for years.fossil fuels are killing millions,the capability of not using such fuel has been in their hands since the 70s.they bought the pattens or used other methods to remove those who wouldnt sell.people call this a conspiracy.lol.i cant imagine how so many can be so blind.in some ways i dont think that most do not believe this.its just to scary to admit to be true. | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 8:45:48 AM | Wow bro, that post is the most powerful post I've seen, tied only with the realities of the numbers of dead, wounded, and permanently scarred from all sides.
It gave me tears to see such truth spoken from such a fragile position. I understand what you have done by saying the things you have said. Perhaps you feel like its ok to speak out now because the dipshit is leaving but I still understand the guts it takes to say those words. In todays world it is as brave as being in the military in the first place, given that you weren't one of those who joined solely for the "economical" benefits, which I don't sense from you.
I agree with you too that its not too late to salvage this country but unfortunately so many peoples minds are locked into the corporate presidential idea, the idea that only those with the most money win, that I feel its about 2350 on the too late clock. I am looking at Ralph Nader for my vote simply for the reasons you said. The ones everybody is fighting over is just the same old thing. Nader has been on the line for the regular person for years and wants to make every politician who votes for a war to be required to send their own of age children. Plus, he's done more to really keep people safe than any politician I know of as he was the man behind seat belts and airbags, how many lives have those save? Time to get real.
As MG said, there are those of us here who have been trying to support you guys by helping to get your assess out of there. You would not believe how much crap we get for it. Peoples brains have been marinating in BS too long to get it and Rush, Hannity, and O'Rieley haven't been your best friends either.
I honor your courage, wisdom, and bravery that your post took to make. You have now become one of my hero's along with those who saw the illegality of this invasion and occupation and refused to go. That kind of bravery gives me heart. Thank you. | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 9:22:49 AM | CBV830
Unlike most Americans I refuse to fawn over American militarism and I place no glory onto the warrior mystique; to me most of it is ridiculous nonsense and jingoistic arrogance masquerading as patriotism., if not worse.
In other words, I do not automatically 'support the troops', neither the collective soldier, nor their mission; as I have been witness to many of the troops themselves parroting the same confused rhetoric, and the same flawed ideologies as the Neocon civilian leadership that got us to where we are; and as such, they also need to account for their cheerleading efforts, and their eager participation in the Iraq War.
Judging by your comments, I think you will understand perfectly well, the type of mindset and soldiering that I speak of.
Just to be crystal clear, even though I do not 'support the troops' in the traditional sense, I do not entirely blame them for their indoctrination, nor do I dishonor them, even when their personal vanity and venal ambitions cloud their thinking; and I do still pray for them all.
Having said that, with the full recognition that an honest representation of my position be stated up front, I do draw some solace from your testament, and am encouraged to find that there are actually many in the miltary who are warriors in the very truest sense of that word, not merely those with ambitions of vainglory, nor gullible and mindless automatons, but those who conduct themslves with honor within tremendous difficulties, and do their jobs, however reluctantly, with their eyes held completely wide open.
Those to whom actually understand the oathe they swore to uphold.
To those who do, they have my ultimate respect ... and I am very cognizant of the difficult path they must trod ... of their considerable sacrifice, their bravery, and honor.
My parting words to you are, no matter what the corruption and lies involved, keep your head up soldier, don't let that influence your morale, your first responsibility is to your family and the men in your unit ... get yourself and them out of there, intact and alive.
To that endeavor you have my complete and unwavering support and my continual prayers.
Respectfully
darjeeling | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 12:54:28 PM | I know of those you speak of. However, you must remember. We are not all politicians. When we raise our right hand and say that oath. Or SWEAR that oath, our freedom of choice is gone. Some people, even those who joined for money, pride, or the sense of being in the most honorary position in todays society have given 4, 6 or 8 (typically and nearly always at least 8) years of their life to our "representative government".
Rather you joined for money, the "rush" of combat, or for whatever reason, you lace your boots up the same, and you bleed the same. No one deserves to die for another mans greed. War is a rich man's game played with young mens lives. or here is another one, from LP "When the rich rage war, its the poor that die. we were all victims in the war.
Since we all like naming things after they have happened (I.E Operation Desert Storm/Shield = gulf War ((I think???))) I hearby name this war "The BUSHY D!CK WAR" any other names? | |
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| If your here to talk about Iraq, look here first.
Posted: 4/24/2008 1:04:53 PM | All I have to say is that the reason that you can't fix this situation democratically, is simply that people are not interested in fixing it. If people didn't want this war in Iraq to continue in some manner, different people would be coming out of the primaries with the nod.
Anybody who thinks a civil war is what you need right now needs to do some serious studying of history, and the laws of unintended consequences . | |
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