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 TitanGuy7
Joined: 6/24/2007
Msg: 1
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Believing in the Bible [Thread Closed]Page 1 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
Why is the so much belief in what the bible says? I have not read all of the bible but from what I read it is a self-help guide of how to live your life mixed with a book of fairytales. I am not saying that there is a single untruth in the bible I am just trying to be objective. If you had never heard of god or the bible before and picked it up do you think you would believe what it tells you or would you just think it was a good novel? It is not my intention to anger anyone I am just tryign to gather opinions from various people so I can come to my own conclusion if I ruffle any feathers I am sorry.
 bear45408
Joined: 7/30/2007
Msg: 2
Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/26/2008 3:13:53 PM

from what I read it is a self-help guide of how to live your life mixed with a book of fairytales.
You probably aren't the only one to get this impression, but I don't think that's correct. Many people today are used to reading books as either fiction or non-fiction, and aren't used to the older concept of an oral story teller, which is where the biblical narratives arose.

Instead of trying to read it as straight history, dictated literally by God, as some would have you believe, may I suggest you loosen up a bit. Imagine yourself sitting around a fire, listening to the tale told by a bard, in ancient days, which is probably where it all started. The tradition was not to tell the story in a dry manner, but to liven it up a bit. In Hebrew it's called Midrash. In English, I guess the closest one can come is a fish story. It doesn't mean that the storyteller didn't catch the fish, just that the listener understands that the fish might just not be quite as large as described. Such is the tradition in story telling.

But then it got written down, and religion got into the picture, and people started to take this too seriously. The ancient stories, instead of being an inspiration, got dissected, as if they were a lab report. --- Well, they're not, and were not meant to be.

That doesn't meant that they are false. The tales more than likely come down to us from a true tale. But that may not be quite what we read. There is considerable archaeological evidence that some of the Old Testament tales occurred, although not perhaps in the form we read.
 Alpina
Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 3
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Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/26/2008 4:14:35 PM
I think most modern Christians view the bible much like they view Aesop's Fables. One can pick up on the moral point of those stories without believing in talking animals. Which is still odd because so much of the morals the bible teaches are pretty damned awful.

Christians I think rationalize a warm-and-fuzzy belief in the bible because they've been taught all their lives by parents and society that it's a true story. When they get older they pretty much know that the world doesn't operate the way the bible tells it, so they drop things like incest and slavery from their minds, and keep the Sunday school view of "Jesus was a nice guy."
 Guy Named Ray
Joined: 2/19/2008
Msg: 4
Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/26/2008 6:35:31 PM
Why is the so much belief in what the bible says?

It tells people that it is not their fault for the way the world is.
That it is the fault of Adam and Eve. If it wasn't for them we would still
be in the Garden of Eden. But, their is a way go get back to the Garden.
Love God and do what he says, and God will put you back in the Garden of Eden.

Is there any better way to entice you into believing?

Of course if you don't believe you burn in hell for eternity. Just thought I would
mention that in case you didn't believe the first part.

Is there any better way to scare you into believing?
 mccullough64
Joined: 11/11/2006
Msg: 5
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Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/27/2008 10:49:55 AM
it probabably continues because it is such a mixture of true and false . the kings mentioned in the old testament were real but how much more no one can say for sure could be ,could be not. i dont believe the miracles and i think jesus to be a fictional character along with paul but i think many people want a sense that god intervene's in their lives, of having magic on tap so to speak. I belive in a God with personality but not one that answers prayer.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 6
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Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/27/2008 1:29:22 PM

If you had never heard of god or the bible before and picked it up do you think you would believe what it tells you or would you just think it was a good novel?[quote/]

If, while having a learned knowledge of certain scientific fields like archaeology/paleontology, etc., and I came across a book called the Bible, I believe after reading just a little I would be very intrigued especially when someone would inform me that book was formatted on writings that were over 1800 years old.
 mccullough64
Joined: 11/11/2006
Msg: 7
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Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/27/2008 1:38:27 PM
sot as not to sound arrogant when i did believe in christianity it was my desire to believe in magic that kept it going. being the member of a priviledged -ithought- and persecuted- again i thought-group the imagined persecution justified a perpetual attirtude of victimization,which justified a lot of self pity and anger. plus i had a hard time admiting i was wrong i finally came to the point that i admited to my self that i didn't believe but i was going to pre tend to be christian because it was to hard to change my beliefs.
 ranger58
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 8
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Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/27/2008 2:23:12 PM
Why does so many non believers have so much to say about God, and His word, if they don't believe? If you are not a true Christian, then you will never understand the Bible. No matter how many times you read the Bible, it will not make since to you, until you first believe in Jesus Christ....
 Csonka
Joined: 11/21/2004
Msg: 9
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Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/27/2008 3:13:35 PM
I am inspired as many many are, by Derek Prince's testimony.

Derek was an Englishman, from a military church of England family, raised in India and England and well educated, taught Ancient Greek from boyhood. He had contempt for his Anglican faith and left it behind when schooling finished.

He entered Cambridge College and studied I think philosophy. He got his highs with alcohol and the loud music of his day, pre-speaker. And ahead of his time in trends he practiced yoga. He said alcohol gave him less and less of a high. And yoga left him with a sort of grey perspective.

He was searching for answers. Searching without lack of intellect.

He met a simple family that had faith, judged them honest. They testified to a healing that the wife prayed ten years for. They asked him to say grace before meals, and he was surprised by the words he had.

WW2 came and he was called up. But asked for omition from service and was granted it.

When he went to service as a nurse in the army, he took a Bible with him.

Intellectually reading it it made no sense, and he could could read the original languages...

He decided in the middle of the night to pray, he didn't know why, he raised his hands directly up, over his head, and prayed and experienced "power from on high" he began quoting the Bible, and saw the verses later, "and laughter filled our mouths" he laughed loudly. It woke up the nearby soldier who suggested dunking him with water. But he said couldn't help it... he continued to be filled with power from on high.

The couple had prayed for him.

I think he may have already received Jesus.

The Bible was then gradually explained to him by the author, the holy spirit.

Also he went as usual to visit the pub or saloon, but the power gripped him, and he stopped and couldn't move.

He found his high in the spirit and understood the scriptures by him.

The author of the Bible is the teacher. Derek became a Bible teacher and had to face his military family about his conversion, and left many teachings before he died in 2003. He is a firm foundational teacher with the spirit filled Christians.

And his Foundation gives away good free stuff.
http://www.derekprince.org/site/PageServer
Very down to Earth, straight forward, well put, Cambridge Englishman's teachings. Lived a s a Christian from that time in WW2 until he died.
 deva1976
Joined: 4/22/2008
Msg: 10
Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/27/2008 3:49:36 PM
Jesus was not always a nice guy. when the people were selling in the temple on the sabath which he declared a holy day. he threw them out overturning the tables and running off every one and everything in the temple that day. there are more example than this this is just one. what Jesus is drawing us into is a relationship with him. Just be your selves and live the life you were created for with Jesus in the center of this life He has for you
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 11
Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/27/2008 4:26:49 PM


Why does so many non believers have so much to say about God, and His word, if they don't believe? If you are not a true Christian, then you will never understand the Bible. No matter how many times you read the Bible, it will not make since to you, until you first believe in Jesus Christ....


Well it's an open forum for one and anyone can comment on any subject. Secondly, most people have someone in their family or many someone's who are of some faith and in North America it's likely to be Christian of some denomination.

Referring to a "true" Christian opens the doors to the classic logical fallacy of the "no True Scotsman" argument. You can no more decide who a "true Christian" is than what I am thinking right now.

And finally, the assumption that "belief" alone gives someone magical powers to discern the meaning of the words of the Bible is the biggest load of manure in your post. If anything it allows a person to become highly suggestible and can be influenced into accepting a meaning from someone else. The only way to understand a passage from any scripture is to know who is speaking, to whom they are speaking and the time and place of the passage in question for starters.

Knowing the original text and the language and people it was written for would be even better...as well knowing the history, mythology and cultural idioms of that culture and the surrounding cultures would be best of all. If you are being given a metaphor or a reference to a famous battle that would mean something to a person of 1000 BCE in Jordan, all the "belief" in the world won't help you understand it when what you really need to know the meaning is a history lesson.
 ranger58
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 12
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Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/27/2008 5:56:50 PM
Your right fiddler
You can no more decide who a "true Christian" is than what I am thinking right now.
that would be God's job. You must be a liberal, the way you miss quote people.
the assumption that "belief" alone gives someone magical powers to discern the meaning of the words of the Bible
I said you first believe. The power to discern come from the Holly Spirt.......
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 13
Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/27/2008 6:34:08 PM


that would be God's job. You must be a liberal, the way you miss quote people.


Hmm...well since I copied your text directly from your post I don't see how I "miss quoted (sic)" you. If you're suggesting you weren't implying that you had knowledge of what constitutes a "true Christian" by making such a statement, then that's fine and dandy. However, I stand by what I go on to say about understanding scripture.

An "indwelling" of spirit will perhaps enable you to understand God's love for you and how he wants you to love and serve your fellow man but it has nothing at all to do with understanding the words of an ancient text from another culture. For that you need practical real world knowledge obtained through hard work and education. There are plenty of scholars, liberal and conservative, republican and democrat who have no difficulty coming to agreement on that point.

You ask why so many non-believers comment on the thread. Perhaps you should remember they might not all have been non-believers their whole lives and spent some time as believers. Or perhaps they have family members who believe while they do not. Or perhaps they are just fascinated with people who believe in religions. Religion is one of the single most dramatic motivating forces in the history of mankind next to our inability to get along over "resource management" so it's little wonder people are interested in it.

I'd get used to non-believers in the religion subforum if I were you, they are here to stay right alongside the believers.
 ranger58
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 14
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Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/28/2008 6:54:49 AM
Wow, you are something else fiddler. I won't go over your first miss quote you made again. I did not say that I didn't know what makes a true Christian. I said it's God's job to determines who is one, because He only knows what's in a persons heart.
The Holly Spirit will give you so much more then just understanding of God's love. Yes, you do have to read and study the Bible to know it. It is so much more then the history of people though. It's a guide on how to have a relationship with God.

I'd get used to non-believers in the religion sub forum if I were you, they are here to stay right alongside the believers.
I'm already use to people talking about what they know very little about, and liberals miss quoting others......
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 15
Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/28/2008 9:16:23 PM


Wow, you are something else fiddler. I won't go over your first miss quote you made again. I did not say that I didn't know what makes a true Christian. I said it's God's job to determines who is one, because He only knows what's in a persons heart.
The Holly Spirit will give you so much more then just understanding of God's love. Yes, you do have to read and study the Bible to know it. It is so much more then the history of people though. It's a guide on how to have a relationship with God.


Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion on what the Bible is and is for, just like everyone else is...you believe it to be a "guide on how to have a relationship with God" and I believe it to be a collection of myths and legends that are a statement of faith for several different cultural groups that has become a religious scripture for many different people of many differing opinions. Likely we both place far different level of truth value on it and I suspect you regard it far more highly than I do.

I certainly don't want to put words in your mouth...it's just that your comment about non-believers commenting on the Bible implied that they might not know as much about the subject simply because they didn't believe in it was worthy of a response. The only thing that they might not be able to offer fair comment on is your personal faith experience and beliefs. As to the rest of the book, they have as much chance as knowing about it as anyone else, believer or not. Frankly you have no way of knowing who may or may not be more knowledgable than you on the Bible until you engage them in an actual discussion...petty bickering, namecalling and political namecalling aside.

As far as my personal politics go, they are irrelevant to the discussion, however as a former Christian I have read the Bible back to front many, many times, made a personal study of Christianity and Judaism for the last few decades and have a deep personal interest in Near Eastern religious and cultural history and language...I am no expert but I do have an interest. That should be sufficient and then some.

Back to the topic, I have to agree with bear45408 in that the single greatest problem of understanding the Bible is the fact that the traditional teaching of stories as Midrash seems to have not been passed on to the Christian church and as a result literalism seems to have thrived. Much heartache, death and destruction seems to have followed in the wake of this and seems to be the handmaiden of literalist dogmatic religion. In listening to a multipart lecture by a PhD in Near Eastern religious studies, mythic telling of tales in religion is commonplace throughout the region and period. It is mystifying how, in the modern era, that people continue to teach Biblical stories literally when we know that the people of that era did not write stories in the form of an historical narrative as is done today but in a poetic style. The modern style of literal historical narrative is a VERY late arrival on the scene...only a few hundred years old.
 PhYz
Joined: 6/23/2007
Msg: 16
Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/29/2008 11:11:01 AM
12 disciples or disciplines?

Follow Jesus ..or 'be like' him?

to Quite st. Matthew chapter something or another

"Those who will call yourselves after me - you will not find the way"

"Man how thou tense thy necks against me (referring to God) even"

interesing statements from our saviour!

:)
 PhYz
Joined: 6/23/2007
Msg: 17
Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/29/2008 11:12:22 AM
to Quite st. Matthew chapter something or another

*quote


(*Phyz spells flautlessly*)
 kaagwaantaan
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 18
Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/29/2008 1:11:00 PM
[quote ]it is a self-help guide of how to live your life mixed with a book of fairytales...............It is not my intention to anger anyone ...............if I ruffle any feathers I am sorry.

You are entitled to YOUR opinions as I am entitled to mine. I don't think the bible is a self help book or filled with fairy tales.

But I would not argue your right to believe it is....nor would I belittle your belief system as some sort of Story straight from the brothers Grimm.

What I find most disturbing is how little respect is shown for my faith. I suppose if I wanted to walk the walk with Buddah you would respect my choices.

Go back and look at it as a love story. Then tell me what you see.

How many times was this people unfaithful and God still provided for them and made a way for them. How many people are divorced in this day and age because of infidelity?
There are many life lessons in the bible. that is but one of them.
 tat2eddrmctchr
Joined: 12/16/2005
Msg: 19
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Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/29/2008 6:10:14 PM
WOW!

WELL SAID!

"The Bible is a love story"... gave me goosebumps! HOW TRUE!
 ~inflateablesoulmate~
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 20
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Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/29/2008 10:16:50 PM
Why is the so much belief in what the bible says? I have not read all of the bible but from what I read it is a self-help guide of how to live your life mixed with a book of fairytales. I am not saying that there is a single untruth in the bible I am just trying to be objective. If you had never heard of god or the bible before and picked it up do you think you would believe what it tells you or would you just think it was a good novel? It is not my intention to anger anyone I am just tryign to gather opinions from various people so I can come to my own conclusion if I ruffle any feathers I am sorry.

The only post That interested me in this whole thread was the Original poster's.

So I'll answer best I can
1. Back in the day when the divisions in kingdoms, countries, nations, and cultures, The rulers of the day gave you 2 choices, Pledge your allegience and put your faith in their god and their plagerized version of the bible or quite simply, DIE becuase youd be considered a heretic, witch, sinner, whatever...
2. Theres a lot of moral dogma in the bible true mixed with a lot of mixed mythical stories from fables and tales borrowed from cultures thousands of years older than the bible itself... all saying roughly the same thing i different ways with many different characters basically portraying the same people. You wouldnt be totally wrong in saying that there are a multitude of untruths in the bible either.
Not too many people know about the gospels that were ommited every time the bible was re editted, Like the gospels of Mary, or the Apochrypha, which is basically a whole different bible in itself. Rare and not very accessable these days.

The bible is basically a plagerized version of mixed up mythical legends borrowed from cultures thousands of years older than the bible itself...
Egyptians Seemed to have the base stories that eventually got twisted and manipulated to eventually mean completely different things that show up in the bible 3500 or so years later. Somehow the argha noa or flood season became a tale of Noah's ark, imagine that. Horus , the SON of RA somehow gets translated as son of god, light of the world, Sunrise somehow becomes the resurrection of jesus or Jesus returning, which basically happens everyday, chasing the eveil darkness of night away....
I think you get the idea... I have text I can paste but I know too many peole would just put up a huge fuss and start slinging insults... BUT i had to put in my 2 cents.
IM a little more than an athiest and a heretic, Just so its known. I live for the occult or the hidden knowledge in earths real history.
None of that hokus pokus mumbo jumbo... the real stuff.

 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 21
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Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/29/2008 10:51:29 PM
That last paragraph in the post above me, may be the single funniest thing I have ever read in these forums.
 Alpina
Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 22
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Believing in the Bible
Posted: 4/30/2008 7:33:20 PM

If, while having a learned knowledge of certain scientific fields like archaeology/paleontology, etc., and I came across a book called the Bible, I believe after reading just a little I would be very intrigued especially when someone would inform me that book was formatted on writings that were over 1800 years old.


That's very odd.

If you read "just a little" from the beginning, God creates Adam and Eve. Then a few pages later there's no Eve, and God notices Adam is lonely. Toss aside two very different tales of events, and consider the rest of the bible. Creating Adam and Adam only is kind of a screw-up. If you are all-knowing, surely forgetting to give Adam a method to reproduce is puzzling.

Even odder:

You appear to assign merit of age; Ever see a car wreck? Notice how two eye-witnesses manage to give differing accounts on what really happened minutes apart? Multiply that by your 1,800 years. Does truth become fact from mere age?
 sassyaquarius
Joined: 4/10/2006
Msg: 23
Believing in the Bible
Posted: 5/1/2008 10:29:02 AM

Why is the so much belief in what the bible says?
Because christains believe that it is the infallible word of God and they take that very seriously.

I have not read all of the bible but from what I read it is a self-help guide of how to live your life mixed with a book of fairytales.
Which is only your perception...

I am just trying to be objective.
About that which you have only partially read?

I am just tryign to gather opinions from various people so I can come to my own conclusion
Conclusion about what? The bible and its contents? Or the people who believe it is the infallible word of God?

I don't understand these threads... I mean asking questions as opposed to assuming is good, but what exactly are you looking for? A reason to believe? A reason to finish reading what you have already formulated an opinion on?

For every piece of scripture there are thousands of different interpretations... why not formulate your own as opposed to asking what others are?
 INDYDUDE
Joined: 10/23/2007
Msg: 24
Believing in the Bible
Posted: 5/1/2008 11:51:35 AM
If you really want to know why people believe in the Bible, go to a Bible book store and get a bunch of books on apologetics which answer that question. There are hundreds of them. They show how the Bible is accurate in every way ... historically, prophetically, spiritually, and scientifically. They answer every question and complaint made against the Word of God. Many people in here have obviously gone over to the dark side and are listening to invisible voices in their heads instead of doing honest extensive research on the subject. Let the heathen rage. God will be true and every one of them a liar. Not only is it accurate in every way but people believe in the Bible because, along with the Spirit of God, it has changed their lives for the good. It has made nations great. Every point in our constitution can be found in the Bible. Almost every law comes from principles in the Bible. Those that don't, are eventually done away with once it is shown that they do more harm than good. If you are serious about it, a good place to start studying is with the 300 plus prophecies about Jesus in the Old Testament and how they all came to pass in the New.
 sassyaquarius
Joined: 4/10/2006
Msg: 25
Believing in the Bible
Posted: 5/1/2008 4:32:47 PM

If you really want to know why people believe in the Bible, go to a Bible book store and get a bunch of books on apologetics which answer that question. There are hundreds of them. They show how the Bible is accurate in every way ... historically, prophetically, spiritually, and scientifically.
Wow...

Christian apologetics is the field of study concerned with the systematic defense of Christianity. The term "apologetic" comes from the Greek word apologia (απολογία), which means in defense of. Therefore, a skilled person involved in Christian or Bible Apologetics is a defender of Christianity.
Why does something so infallible need defending?? And how is an opinion, apologetic or NOT, proof of accuracy? Lets see....

It isn't.

Many people in here have obviously gone over to the dark side and are listening to invisible voices in their heads instead of doing honest extensive research on the subject.
Many people here HAVE done extensive research and their conclusions as such led to their turning away from the bible, whether you determine that to mean they are dark-sided or not.. memories of trading spouses God's warrior episode comes crashing back into consciousness *shudder*...
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