| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 12:54:05 PM | My son, 14 and who attends a catholic school, has been keeping me updated on what he learns in "health" class. I was finding it interesting that a mixed class (as in boys and girls) could learn about the body parts and still be able to talk to each other afterward. Until recently I haven't had any problems with the situation, since my son seems to now have a very good understanding of female anatomy and can tell you how to put on a condom and informed me that both sexes should take responsibility for contraception. I think it's great that he's learning this stuff and that he's comfortable talking to me about it.
However, last week he told me that he had a new teacher, one with which he is not comfortable. Apparently this guy is making remarks about the boys, like "at your age things are happening" and then he uses hand gestures to show their penises going up and down in size". More than that, though, he told them (again, this is a class of both boys and girls) that he's got a son their age and he's tired of cleaning up after him after he masturbates.
I have no problem with a school teaching sex education, but (1) if they are going to be telling them about masturbation, they should divide the class up so that the girls and boys aren't together, and (2) this doesn't sound like it's in the curriculum and I find it offensive. Imagine being that man's son.
Am I old-fashioned in this thinking? I like to think that some things are private and although kids need to learn the basics and that they aren't freaks because their penises change size without warning, it's kind of gross to be having any adult discuss this in such graphic detail.
Any comments? | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 1:02:10 PM | Why should they divide up the class? Masturbation is a normal healthy part of any persons life, why make it taboo by segregating them to discuss it?
So he made an off the cuff comment about his son not cleaning up after himself? I bet it made the class giggle, and the kids will be thinking about cleaning up after themselves.
How is it gross? Would you prefer the playground discussions rather than an adult taking a light hearted approach to a serious subject.
No doubt the kids will remember that lesson, and the content.... therefore it was a successful lesson. I'm not sure how using hand gestures is graphic detail.... | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 1:19:47 PM | Hello even toddlers understand about their penises growing when they play with them........... if your son at 14 is offended by this then you failed as a parent to teach him about human sexuality and should be very thankful that someone is teaching him.
It is only fair that they be told it is gross to have to clean up someone else's cum. Maybe just maybe that will help your son understand, and he will just put his dirty sheets in the washer for you. | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 1:28:59 PM | I think it's our age difference showing through here. When I went to school the extent of our sex education was learning about our periods. Thus, my question, since I didn't get the benefit of being exposed to this like my kids are.
Actually, though, my son and his classmates were uncomfortable with this particular fellow, which hasn't happened before, and they've been receiving sex education for a number of years.
Although I agree it's really important that kids learn that sex and masturbation are healthy, sex is private, to me anyway (which I know doesn't represent the entire human race). Agreed, it shouldn't be taboo, but it's kind of nice that it has an aura of mystery surrounding it. That's what makes it so very special.
But perhaps it's just me | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 2:03:36 PM | Hmmm...I don't know that I would be very happy if my son or one of my daughters came home to tell me of a teacher making comments about having to clean up after a teenage son. I would also be none to happy if he were making gestures about penises growing and such. I can only imagine the possibility if this were to trickle over into the changes that go on in a girl's body.
I guess my outlook on it is that this is something that should be handled in an adult/mature fashion and not as if one of the kids' buddies were teaching it. Teenage sexuality CAN have some very adult outcomes and it isn't all "fun and games."
The teacher was probably trying to prove that he was cool with it all, and he was a "good guy" who understands, but he missed the mark entirely if the kids were feeling uncomfortable about it. It is a shame, but probably not a lesson to be taught be a newcomer to the classroom, rather someone who already has a rapport with and sense of the kids so that he/she might have some idea of what they might be comfortable with. | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 2:17:00 PM | My personal opinion on this is that there can never be enough honesty and bluntness regarding sex and sexual matters when it comes to kids and teenagers.
And no, I don't think the boys and girls should be divided. Let them squirm and giggle all they want...it will soon get old and they
will simply get used to it.
I truly believe that the more open and honest we are with the kids about these things, the less likely they are to "glamorize" it or take their information from their friends or worse, from the porn industry.
Myself, I try to treat the subject of sex with my granddaughter in the same way I treat every other serious matters - I give it the same (no more no less) importance as I do every other needs/wants/desires that all we have as human beings and that we must learn how to be in control of for our own well being.
To me, sex is just one more thing in the long list of what we must learn to be in control of in the same way we must be in control of our emotional, mental and physical being to be a healthy well balanced individual.
As far as attaching my own morality/value system to sex...hm...she knows where I stand on most things that matters dearly to me...sex is no different. Hopefully, I've given her enough information and talked with her enough that she will be able to make the best decisions for *her* when the time comes. (sigh...)
JMO | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 2:25:44 PM | It really sounds like it isn't the subject that's the problem, but more the presentation. If the way the guy is discussing the subject matter is making the class uncomfortable, then I would recommend giving the school a call so the higher ups can have a talk with the teacher about his approach or check to see if his actions/comments are inappropriate.
Also, kids learn to treat the subject as seriously as the person presenting it. If his attitude doesn't represent a mature and serious manner, then the kids aren't going to take sex and it's consequences seriously, either.
I have to agree about teaching masturbation in school. I don't see the need beyond mentioning that it is normal for everyone to give it a go and nothing more. Time could be better spent on more important subjects concerning sex and relationships, respect for your partner, rape and prevention, what date rape is, etc. | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 2:31:19 PM |
Although I agree it's really important that kids learn that sex and masturbation are healthy, sex is private, to me anyway (which I know doesn't represent the entire human race). Agreed, it shouldn't be taboo, but it's kind of nice that it has an aura of mystery surrounding it. That's what makes it so very special.
That is the difference between those of us who believe sex is very special, private and mysterious. When I was growing up there were no young women/girls and young men/boys flaunting themselves on the internet while performing sex acts for the whole world to see. It is as though the youth of today are de-sensitized to what sex is supposed to be all about.
I agree with you. Comments and actions should not be made in mixed company. Especially when it is in a confined situation such a classroom. I will bet 10 to 1 that very few teach that sex should be between two consenting adults who are in love and preferably married. So much for morals and values. | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 4:35:02 PM | | i know what its like to have a teacher say and demonstrate bad gestures i had a teacher pay out on me about my penis size and it was very offensive,some are just too**** and old to know how to change ,no wonder there are lawyers and legal firms | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 4:45:54 PM | | Another thing: they haven't mentioned anything about girls masturbating. It seems to be acceptable to put it out there for public discussion when it's a boy, but not for girls. Isn't that reverse sexism? | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 6:54:19 PM | Well, I am a very liberal person when it comes to the topic of sex. I think honesty is the best policy. And I don't think the sexes should be seperated. HOWEVER...if the teachers comments make the kids (not just your son, but other students as well) uncomfortable, then that is an issue. Because children cannot effectively learn if they do not feel 'safe' in their learning environment.
If your son has friends that share the same class and you are comfortable with their parents, I would suggest seeing what they think about it. If they are in agreement with you, then go see the principal and express your concerns. Nothing can change unless appropriate action is taken.
~Welder's Girl~ | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 6:56:01 PM |
One out of every three children is having sex at the age of 10, and 17 out of 100 will deliberately spread the virus if they know they are HIV-positive.
Some of the other disturbing findings included that, at 18, two out of every three children had had sex. Two out of 10 pupils did not believe condoms prevented pregnancy or other sexually transmitted diseases.
One in 10 said they believed sex with a virgin could cure HIV/Aids, and one in 10 had been raped in the past year. Three out of every 100 pupils thought that girls liked sexually violent boys and one out of every 10 thought that girls who got raped, asked for it, according to the study.
It is not surprising that 43 percent of all sexual crimes committed on children reported to Childline, were committed by children under 18," the study reported.
And your worried about kids feeling uncomfortable because a teacher was candid with a mixed class?
Surely you have bigger fish to fry....... | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 7:29:14 PM | Mommy 2
I'm not sure why I feel compelled to respond to your comments, since you're the one who seems to be trying to fry something here. But here we go:
1. Where did this report come from? What year was it published? Which population was surveyed? What was the sample size? What was the standard deviation given on those averages they gave?
2. If 1 of 3 kids at age 10 is having sex, I find it awfully hard to believe that it takes until 18 years old for it to increase to 1/2. Why not younger? Surely if it's 1/3 at age 10, it would increase to 1/2 at age 14, and then by 18, it would be literally 100%.
3. The stat that 43% of sex crimes committed on children (which I presume means under 18 themselves) were committed by children under 18 means that 57% of sex crimes on kids are being committed by adults. Which one of those figures is more shocking?
4. Of all the supposed facts that you're citing from this unknown source, exactly which one would be prevented by an adult standing in front of 14-year-old boys and girls telling them that he's tired of cleaning up after his son masturbates?
For the record: I'm not a prude and my son talks to me about everything...And I must say, low on my priority list is what's on his sheets when I throw them in the washing machine, so I could give a rat's a** whether someone at school is telling him to clean up after himself. Like a few people have said, there are far more important things that they need to teach them about sexuality, preferably without making them uncomfortable because you want them to listen, but definitely without making it personal, because a person's sex life IS private. | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 7:50:15 PM | | Educating children on sex is an essential part of their normal development. Making sex out to be a joke, making it out to be an Okay activity for children, teaching about it in mixed company at young ages, etc. are not ways to enhance normal development. Just wait until some of you who feel it is Okay to be liberal about it to the extent of removing morality from it have one or more of your children become a parent while still a child, become infected by a disease, become the perpetrator or victim of a sex crime, etc. Educating or better yet "conditioning" young people in a negative way about sex is just as bad if not worse than not educating them at all. More parents need to live up to their roles as parents and conduct this sort of education at home in a moral way. | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 10:03:53 PM | If you take a look at the stats of some european countries who are the most open and laid back about sex and sexuality, you'll see they have the lowest rates of teen pregnancies and stds.
Prehaps there something to the open approach.... Because in countries with the Sex is Private, should be mysterious, it happens but we don't talk about it approach etc we have extremely high rates of teen pregnancies and std's. | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/27/2008 10:14:28 PM |
Isn't that reverse sexism?
There's no such thing as "reverse sexism."
Anyhoo, you're making a big deal out of it. He's 14. He's masturbating. At 14, he's not uncomfortable with the subject matter, he's grossed out at the thought of adults doing it or talking about it. | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/28/2008 3:08:58 AM |
There's no such thing as "reverse sexism."
I used the wrong term perhaps. But would you agree that it's not fair for the boys to be singled out on this subject when they don't do the same to the girls?
Anyhoo, you're making a big deal out of it. He's 14. He's masturbating. At 14, he's not uncomfortable with the subject matter, he's grossed out at the thought of adults doing it or talking about it.
You're right...It's not a big deal, and it doesn't keep me up at night just because he's uncomfortable with a teacher. In fact, my son's completely forgotten about it and I'm still writing here, which is rather telling how important this is. However, I agreed with my son when he did tell me about it that it was inappropriate conduct for a teacher to speak to them like that and I was curious whether my reaction had something to do with my generation. I think it does judging by the responses here. It always surprises me, though, how quickly the posts turn ugly. Not yours, but someone who highlighted that this must all signal my failure as a parent. That, I react to and it reminds me why I tend to shy away from certain forums.
I guess everyone has their line and when it's crossed they don't feel comfortable. That's all this was about. | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/28/2008 5:23:05 AM | I have to say i do think it is a Generational thing, maybe i will be as shocked as you when my Son gets to that " sexual learning " stage, myself i was taught the facts of life by my mum and my nan - they sat me round the kitchen table and they drew diagrams and stuff and was quite interesting, in school my sexual learning was as advanced as to how to put a condom on a cucumber..!!!
What i do object to is the thought that sex education should be taught where you are in a loving relationship and married as one poster here commented on and asked where all the morals and values are.. Marriage is not the institution it used to be either - things are not as they used to be years ago, they have changed and things are more open and liberal, you don't just get morals and values because you are married!. I just hope i can teach my son the morals he will need and educate him on this matter without having to rely on the school to do it..! | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/28/2008 5:10:36 PM |
What i do object to is the thought that sex education should be taught where you are in a loving relationship and married as one poster here commented on and asked where all the morals and values are.. Marriage is not the institution it used to be either - things are not as they used to be years ago, they have changed and things are more open and liberal, you don't just get morals and values because you are married!.
I don't agree that people should wait til they're married to have sex either, but for me, personally, I would never have sex with anyone unless I was in love with them. Those are my own values, and since they are my values, I do pass them on to my kids. They'll make their own decisions on what to do with their life, but I believe that teaching values belongs with the parents and not the school, since outlooks can differ. I would hope the teachers don't say anything that would go against my values.
The other poster who made a comment about teaching about love and morals; I can definitely see your point of view. We didn't have internet when we were young, so girls weren't flashing anyone, but we also weren't wearing bracelets that were a sign to boys we were willing to have oral sex with them. Also, teenagers use to have real relationships, real boyfriends and girlfriends. From what I'm seeing, these days, they're "hooking" up: that is, having sex with no strings attached. I don't know why there's been this shift in mentality, and I don't even know what the repercussions of it are, but I certainly can't relate to it. I guess what I'm saying is that avoiding STDs and pregnancy is important, but learning to love and respect each other are really important, too....Again, I don't think the schools can teach this one. It has to start from home. It would be interesting to know why there has been this shift and why in many cases sex isn't connected to love anymore. | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/29/2008 5:04:50 AM | | why would you want to repress sexuality? teach the boys and girls the sasme thing, better them to be in the know than to find it out themselves, kids are curious and seekeers of imformation, tell them they cannot do something or something is bad i.e. masturbation, what do they do, they want to find out themselves. this shoud be taught to both sexes at an early age but only if taught properly | |
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| overstepping the sexual bounds at school
Posted: 4/29/2008 4:10:48 PM |
why would you want to repress sexuality? teach the boys and girls the sasme thing, better them to be in the know than to find it out themselves, kids are curious and seekeers of imformation, tell them they cannot do something or something is bad i.e. masturbation, what do they do, they want to find out themselves. this shoud be taught to both sexes at an early age but only if taught properly
I'm not sure who wants to repress sexuality...But I think I agree with you, except I'd separate the sexes so that no one has to worry about what the other sex is thinking about.
I also agree that it has to be taught right; I think that's where people really disagree on appropriate approaches to teaching sensitive issues.
As for using cucumbers and it setting high expectations, I suppose they could use young zucchinis so the boys in the class don't feel too inadequate | |
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That's setting some high standards right there.