| Squating question
Posted: 4/27/2008 6:06:14 PM | hey guys,
I was wondering if it's okay to have plates underneath your ankles when squating with dumbbells. I keep trying to do a normal squat, but my ankles feel like their going to snap. I've also seen some people use a woodblock when their doing squats on the smith machine. Is either okay?
Also, should stiff legged deadlifts be done on a day when I'm focusing on my back or my legs because it hits both the lower back and the hamstrings.
Thanks | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 4/28/2008 3:04:37 PM | | yeah, its ok....it actually causes you to use your vastus medialis a bit more...the tear drop muscle if you dont know what that is | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 4/29/2008 12:39:38 PM | No it is definitely NOT ok to put weight under your ankles when you squat. you will put excessive pressure on the connective tissue holding your patella to your knee, not to mention your creating awkward leverage. You should not be putting anything under your feet, but if your going to do it anyways, you always place something in the front of your feet forcing you to support the resistance on your heels.
Only an idiot would try to turn a squat into calf exercise. Learn how to squat properly and build up calves using correct calf exercises.
Why are people using wooden blocks on a smith machine ??????? smith squats are done with the lifter laying backwards at an angle on the bar. The smith machine eliminates stress on the back it isn't done like a regular barbbell back squat. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 4/29/2008 12:45:14 PM | | if you want to work your quads more do smith squats correctly or learn how to deep squat. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 4/30/2008 1:22:56 AM | | Just because you see other people doing something does not mean it is safe or a good idea to do. Work on your flexibility instead of trying to find ways to hurt yourself. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 4/30/2008 3:00:32 AM | You're talking about sissy squats, albeit with support under your heels. I've never squatted with plates under my heels so I'm going to decline to comment on it, but it seems like the sort of thing it would be easy to slip doing, and considering with squats you should be driving with your heels, it doesn't strike me as an especially good idea.
As for your stiff legged deadlift question, do full bodies and you won't have to choose! If you choose to split your legs and back up though, I would do them for your legs, since with proper form they are primarily a hamstring exercise, and although they do work your spinal erectors, it's probably best to work those with your legs rather than back since squatting and deadlifting will pretty much fry them anyway. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 4/30/2008 7:24:06 AM | The whole point of plates under the heels is to help get a full rom in the olympic back squat if one lacks ankle flexibility. No harm in using the plates, but be aware you need to work on mobility and flexibility in your ankles until your able to squat without the plates under your feet.
And if you decide to do close stance squatting instead of a powerlifter type squat, get yourself some olympic lifting shoes. Much easier to squat down to full rom without potential hazard or shoes flattening. . | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/5/2008 8:53:37 PM | footballrulz, your whole post is ALL WRONG !!!!!!!!
why would anyone need special shoes to squat deep ???? that is ridiculous !! how will shoes affect hamstrings, lower back, and hip abduction ??? which are the main components in a deep squat !!
PLATES ARE A MISTAKE DO NOT USE THEM !!! | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/6/2008 2:27:12 AM | | walk around your house in the squated position. that should help your ankles and your thigh muscles. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/6/2008 1:23:39 PM |
footballrulz, your whole post is ALL WRONG !!!!!!!!
why would anyone need special shoes to squat deep ???? that is ridiculous !! how will shoes affect hamstrings, lower back, and hip abduction ??? which are the main components in a deep squat !!
PLATES ARE A MISTAKE DO NOT USE THEM !!!
The oly shoes help with ankle flexibility(they have a small heel). That along with hip and hamstring flexibility are the main reasons why people can rarely break below parallel in the squat. The plate works the same way. Obviously its temporary. but can help diagnose tight ankles in individuals and make it easier for them to achieve full depth while working on their dynamic and static flexibility in the meantime.
If your a powerlifter, you will use a flat soled shoe such as chuck taylors because most of the time you only have to break parallel. Some organizations require a narrower stance and more depth so they end up using oly shoes to achieve the depth a bit easier.
Obviously these shoes aren't for everyone and if your not squatting(or doing oly lifts) heavy or close stance, then you probably dont need them. However, being that they are not compressible like running shoes, I like the added stability they have compared to my nike free 7.0 crosstrainers.
And like the previous poster mentioned, the duck walks are an excellent way to work on flexibility for squatting. Just work on it a little bit each day and you should start getting down further and further. In addition to that, foam rolling the entire hip musculature and legs followed by dynamic stretching is a surefire way to gain flexibility quick. Look up mike boyle or bill hart on youtube for extra information and demonstration of ankle mobilization techniques.
Oh, and one more thing, DO NOT SQUAT ON A SMITH MACHINE(Get a barbell and squat in a squat rack or power rack). Smiths disrupt the natural biomechanics of the body forcing you to go in the path its fixed in and you lose out on working the critical stabilizer muscles needed to squat properly. Squats need to be a free body movement, not restricted by some overpriced pos machine. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/6/2008 8:46:33 PM | what !?!?!?!?
DO NOT SQUAT ON A SMITH MACHINE(Get a barbell and squat in a squat rack or power rack). Smiths disrupt the natural biomechanics of the body forcing you to go in the path its fixed in and you lose out on working the critical stabilizer muscles needed to squat properly. Squats need to be a free body movement, not restricted by some overpriced pos machine.
its cool that your trying to help and give good advice footbal but again YOU ARE WRONG !!
Smith machine squats are excellent for developing the quads !!!!!! You don't execute smith squats the same way you would execute a free weight barbell back squat. The smith machine eliminates stress on the back when done correctly and isolates the quads. If your familiar with people using a ball against a wall to do squats then you will be familiar with how a smith machine squat is properly done.
for the record, I have an over 400 lb deadlift, over 300 lb olympic squat, over 400 lb power lifting squat. I power clean over 200 lbs and snatch over 180, I use ONE pair of shoes for each and every one of those lifts.
By the way...where were you educated on fitness ?? How long have you been doing this ? have you ever trained anyone ?? if so how long what are your credentials ?? your heart is in the right place but 90% of everything you have said is incorrect.
One other thing..WHY ARE YOU TELLING PEOPLE TO BUY SPECIAL SHOES TO DIAGNOSE AN UNDER DEVELOPED ABILITY !!! If someone has weak ankle flexion during a squat, buying nice shoes isn't gonna help them !! Practicing their squat (regardless of shoe) and developing ankle strength, flexibility and balance will !!!
It has nothing to do with the shoes and everything to do with practicing. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/7/2008 10:55:06 PM | | Dont put plates under your ankles, that's foolhardy. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/8/2008 10:53:45 AM | Okay if we are throwing numbers around , I have a 450lbs olympic squat, a 365lbs front squat a 465lbs bench(shirted) 405lbs raw, 275lbs military press for reps, a 500lbs deadlift and I have three different pairs of shoes for lifting in.
The smith machine makes for an expensive towel rack and should never be used my anyone ever, it in an unnatural plane of movement and actually puts more stress on the knees during a squat, and just so you know while doing a squat movement you can't isolate your quads, it's a compound movement.
I have been doing this for 7 years, have had many clients, all who have reached and exceeded their goals and every one of them was injury free under my supervision. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/8/2008 5:37:57 PM | Your crazy if you think doing a smith machine squat is dangerous !!! I'm a big fan of front squats which put more emphasis on the quads but this guy can't even do a proper back squat. Just because YOU don't believe in using a smith machine doesn't mean it is bad and people can't benefit from it. Me personally I use all free weights and once in a blue moon I'll use a machine for variation but it doesn't mean EVERYONE can do what I do or what you do for that matter and it doesn't mean that people can't benefit from using a smith machine.
In due time once a person becomes more experienced then they might give front squats a try, but NOT everyone can do them. Cool that you help your clients and you keep them safe, but so do I. I recognize when a client can't do certain things and for that I have to use a machines.
YOU are the reason that fitness has a bad name because YOU are way to close minded about peoples needs. NOT EVERYONE can use free weights all the time NOT everyone can execute a proper barbell back squat. Maybe you can give me a good explanation why it its so bad for people to use machines in there routine every once in awhile ???? I always use a smith machine for calves and seated calf raises, and my calves have grown extremely well, i'll even use a seated cable row once in awhile for a back workout and I still get excellent results so whats your beef ??
Like I said before, SMITH SQUATS DO NOT HURT YOUR KNEES. THEY WILL HURT YOU IF YOU ARE DUMB ENOUGH TO TRY AND EXECUTE THEM LIKE A FREE WEIGHT BACK SQUAT.
Smith machine squats are done the same way squatting using a ball against the wall is done. So explain me to me how that is bad for your knees genius. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/8/2008 5:42:37 PM | One other thing, thats great that you have 3 pairs of shoes for lifting but who is gonna be dumb enough to buy 3 pairs of shoes to work out in ??? for what ???? How is the average weight lifter gonna benefit from having 3 different shoes to wear to the gym.
The same shoes you squat with are good enough to deadlift in are good enough to press in are good enough to row in. so tell me whats the benefit. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/8/2008 7:22:49 PM | What's wrong with the Smith? First, there's zero functional transfer to real life, sports or other lifts. It develops strength in only one dimension, predisposing you to injury in the undeveloped planes of movement. This is sometimes called pattern overload syndrome, and it can lead to injury in the long run.
Second, because the bar is fixed, a person doing Smith machine squats is able to lean against the bar, which is a natural response. This minimizes hip extension, thus allowing the hamstrings to take a siesta during the movement. Trouble is, the hamstrings help to stabilize the knee during squats, and the result of taking them out of the picture is to induce a shearing force on the joint. This might ultimately lead to a blown anterior cruciate ligament.
So maybe that will help you understand. Most likely not though.
Just so you know, I have nothing against useful machines, just the smith machine. I actually really enjoy utilizing many machines in almost every workout I make.
The reason for the three pairs of shoes: Squats and deadlifts I use my chuck taylors, flat soled, decent ankle support.
Bench press I use my gum soled shoes so I can get better leg drive and thus better stability.
Farmers walks, tire flipping, sled dragging I use a cross-trainer so I get good traction and support that the other shoes don't quite provide.
I know that I can provide as much information as possible against the use of the smith machine and you probably wont believe me, so stay safe man, I wish you all the best in your training.
Also do some research on Paul Chek and Charles Poliquin and their thoughts on the smith machine, they might be able to convince you of what I can't. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/8/2008 9:26:16 PM | I'm familiar with poliquin. Using only a smith machine for leg development is a big mistake but what if the smith was combined with leg press or hack squat done with full ROM along with back extensions ??
you don't have to worry about me using the smith for legs. I only use it for standing calf raises. I'm just curious to know if using a combination of machines can be effective.
The OP is hopefully learning how to squat properly and he may get it one day, but what if he combined a free weight back squat and smith. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/8/2008 11:54:34 PM | Oh I agree that you will definitely get leg development from using a smith machine but, in my opinion, with the smith machine there is too much potential risk, I would much rather see a person using a lighter weight and just stick with a proper free weight squat, and as for using it for calf raises, I can't see a problem with that as the ROM on a calf exercise is like 8 inches and isn't a compound movement so it could easily be utilized for calves.
So I will take back my initial statement of the smith being useless, it does have uses, but the most common things I see people doing in it are squats, high pulls(which look like they are destroying the trainers shoulders) and yes, I have seen a person doing barbell curls in the smith machine it was horrible to watch.
And I apologize, I tend to come off as a****sometimes on the internet, I get kind of worked up about weight training. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/9/2008 8:32:14 AM | Good point I prefer someone to squat with light or no weight than using any machine for assistance. I guess I was looking at it from a body building standpoint where those guys/gals might use machines to bring up specific areas in there physique.
You got nothing to apologize for, if anything I should be apologizing. I think people who are really passionate and care about fitness tend to have very strong feelings about how things are done. Its a really good thing even better if we're able to shake hands at the end of day and learn from each other. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/16/2008 12:57:37 PM | Ok well it is all just opinion so I will give mine.
Plates under heel = no
smith machine = sucks
ATG squats = yes | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/16/2008 9:11:29 PM | | i agree with last poster plates under the heels is bad because you want to put the weight on your heel from what i have seen experienced if you put weight on your toes per say it puts ALOT of stress on your knees and thats how knee injuries happen im not doctor but thast what i have seen | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/17/2008 11:53:29 PM | No squatting with plates under your heels. Stretch your calves for 3 sets of 1 minute each, every day, until you're flexible enough to squat properly.
No squatting with dumbbells. Squat with a barbell like the big boys.
No squatting or doing any exercise whatsoever on the smith machine. The smith machine is the devil's tool.
Stiff-legged deadlifts on leg day. Also, train your core (abs and lower back) on leg day.
Hope this helps!
Christopher93 | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/18/2008 4:11:18 AM | | If your ankles feel like they are going to snap, then DUH, don't do it....Sounds like you need to build up srurrounding muscles first, so yes you still need to do squats, but you need to focus on strengthening exercises and flexibility as well... Hopefully you know that you don't just go lift when your dry...you do a warm up of some sort of cardio, stretch and then are lifting....people are always trying to do what other people are doing at the gym, figure out why you are doing it first and how to do whats right for you and your body..work up to more intense squats after getting your body primed. | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/18/2008 10:27:13 AM | To the OP:
Have a look at this collection of videos. He goes over every possible problem and offers exercise and stretching solutions for them. Browse through them, and try to identify the problem you're having - there should be at least one video that addresses it.
http://youtube.com/view_play_list?p=C03D688F10C4DE1F | |
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| Squating question
Posted: 5/19/2008 8:55:35 AM | His problem is he is not flexible enough to do a proper squat. That is all, not hard to figure out.
He could stretch like suggested, but a squat itself is really the best way to stretch it out. Keep doing them until you can get your ass about 2 or 3 inches off the ground with your heels flat. | |
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