| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/28/2008 11:36:55 PM | This story was related to me today. I stress it is a true story, but I do not know the people in this sad story, but after hearing this tale today I was wondering what I would do and also would I want to know…and I have been pondering this all day Names have been changed.
Louise is a single girl in her late 30’s, Greg is a guy in his mid 40’s and has been in a long term defacto relationship with Karen – age unknown . From all accounts it is now a loveless relationship but both Greg and Karen have decided to stay together for the sake of their 8 maybe 9 year daughter whose name I do not know but will call Stacey.
Louise and Greg met four years ago and have been having an affair since their first meeting. . Not an affair in the traditional sense as they only saw each other periodically due to their work commitments and also due to the distance they lived from each other, but they spoke most nites via the computer and went away together on business conferences etc and got together every so often when they were able to.
Greg apparently has made it clear that as much as he loves Louise he would never leave Karen and Stacey until Stacey is a adult. He wants his daughter to growup in a two parent situation and even though this has caused Louise much pain and frustration, she has accepted this scenario but also made it clear to Greg that she would continue dating others and if she meet someone else, so be it. Greg from what I hear was ok. Greg had promised Louise that in time, when Stacey is older and more mature with life, he would leave Karen and commence a life with Louise if Louise was still single.
Ok the kicker
On the weekend Greg died suddenly of a massive heart attack while playing tennis
Naturally Louise is beside herself and yet has no rites here to contact the family or friends of Greg. Not one person, not even Greg’s closest mate knew of their affair. According to the person who relayed this story to me, Louise is bereft and frustrated because she now counts for nothing and can’t mourn him openly.
Now this is horrible situation.
Louise is tempted to contact Karen to tell her who she is and what she is to Greg – this obviously is grief talking, but all that know her have advised her against this, as you can imagine the hurt Karen will sustain by hearing this on top of the sudden death of Greg….I don’t know how Louise found out of Greg’s passing.
So if you were Louise what you do this in this horrible situation where she’s in love with a man who has died and yet has no rites to grieve him openly
If you were Karen would you want to know about Louise existences and Greg’s subsequent betrayal of 4 years. | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/28/2008 11:53:02 PM | Hey Pooks :) Ok call me an unsympathetic bytch, won't be the first time, but I just can't find anyone to feel sorry for with the possible exception of the child, who may or may not be better off without a parent who was cheating on her mother, lying to everyone and basically behaving like a total scumbag, I mean who hasn't heard that line "we only stay together for the children, as soon as they grow I'll leave her for you" blah blah blah what a load of crap, if the relationship is over then it's not doing the children any good staying together, and ffs was she really prepared to sit around wasting her life for like 7/10 years while he used her and stayed with his family. Maybe I'm just bitter and twisted but I think everyone concerned is better off without him and now she has no choice but to get on with her life and stop wasting it waiting around for a loser who never would've been hers anyway, I always think if you get a guy by him cheating on his partner, then be prepared hes gonna do the same thing to you, why wouldn't he?
ronda
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 12:09:36 AM | Rainbowskin speaks very wise words I reckon.
Though a cheating dog and a slapper possibly belong together!
Im not sure the word moral belongs in this post as it seems neither of them have any. | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 12:16:31 AM | Bali is totally awesome! I never want to come home  but unfortunately all good things come to an end way too soon and today's my last day, I head home tomorrow and arrive Thursday morning so standby for chaos and mayhem in the forums again  seeya all soon
ronda :)
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 12:20:18 AM | | "staying together for the kids" That's gotta be the fvcking stupidest bullshit excuse for being too pathetic to end something that's not working. How dare someone blame their kids for their own misery. | |
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Naamah
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Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 8 | |
| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 12:24:05 AM | I see it a bit differently to the above posters, because of this bit...
From all accounts it is now a loveless relationship but both Greg and Karen have decided to stay together for the sake of their 8 maybe 9 year daughter That reads to me as if both Greg and Karen are no longer in love, and both are saying they are only together because of the child...rather than an outright situation of Karen loving Greg and Greg being a cheating ba$tard. I know you later described it as a betrayal Pookie, but was it in this case? (seeking clarification)
Also I do not think the little girl is better off to have a dead Dad than a cheating Dad. Her Dad loved her enough to stay with her Mum through her formative years for her benefit...and whether or not that works, or is the right thing to do, it still seems to me to be a loving act towards the child as far as intent goes. A loving Dad, even if he makes relationship decisions others judge to be stupid, is better than a dead Dad. | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 12:36:31 AM | Poor Louise....while i do not in any circumstance condone cheating . i do feel for Louise.....i know what it feel likes to loose someone u love...
Dont think she should tell Karen tho......i mean, wat would that achieve? nothing.
Unfortunately Louise is just gotta grieve in silence.........i have empathy for her. | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 12:36:45 AM |
have been having an affair since their first meeting
nope he was a scumbag 
I did say the kid "may or may not be better off" wtf would I know but personally that's not the kind of example I would want to be setting for children and either way why should the silly woman waste her life sitting around with her thumb up her arse waiting for him to decide, oops I mean waiting for the child to grow up, what a load of crap | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 12:40:31 AM | I wonder if he was playing "tennis" with Louise when he carked it?
Don't see any real dilemma here if Louise just takes a few valiumm and shuts her cake hole. Why does creating a shitload of unecessary drama help her grieving process? She apparently has friends who are giving her support and advising her not to spill the beans. I really can't understand why she would want to do something like that. Maybe the pain of seeing that Karen isn't so grief stricken after all and is getting Greg's life insurance is all too much to bare. | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 1:01:15 AM | Louise made a choice to be the other woman... Greg made a commitment TO Karen, and his daughter...
What Louise would accomplish is adding insult to injury, and her purpose for that would be???
When a person such as Louise wants to play with another womans man, loved or not loved, they play with the consequences such as the guy dying, and she has to grieve in silence.
Next time Louise my decide to NOT chose to play with someone elses man, and then she wouldn't be in the situation that she is in.
Personally NO, I would NOT want to know about Greg's affair after he was dead. Simply because it would add hurt to an already BAD situation.
We certainly don't know Karens' side, and only seem to know the story from Louise, and her justification made by Greg... Doesn't mean that Karen wasn't a devoted loving wife... Why inflict more pain to an already sad story? | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 1:17:01 AM | Naamah, I agree that the fact the guy is dead isn't very god for the daughter. Like you said, he may(or may not) be cheating on the wife, but he may have loved his daughter dearly....
The "affair" lady has no real rights in anyway I feel, regardless if the wife knew about it or not...She was in a cheating situation and was on the outside looking in.
Sure she can grieve, but she can only really do it on her own, although I'm unsure what my thoughts are towards her attending the funeral service. I can see both sides of it.
And to be honest, as the partner of the deceased, you really don't go around checking out to see who is in attendance, or what their relationship to the deceased was....Well I know I didn't anyway.... | |
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Naamah
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Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 15 | |
| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 1:43:04 AM |
"staying together for the kids" That's gotta be the fvcking stupidest bullshit excuse for being too pathetic to end something that's not working. How dare someone blame their kids for their own misery.
I have two male friends who stay in loveless relationships (you can't help it if you stop loving someone, and in both cases it's pretty much mutually loveless between them and their respective partners) in order that they can keep being hands on fathers to their kids. Admittedly , they don't cheat like the guy in this story, so there are no Louises being promised a future once the kids grow up. That might make people think better of them than the guy in this story, but as their friend I see what an incredibly lonely existence their choice gives them as human beings. Sometimes I wonder why they do it, but then again, when you hear of all the non-custodial parents who grieve for more time with their kids after a relationship break-down...then you can start to understand the choice they made. They may well be miserable in some ways, but they'd be miserable in different ways if they left and couldn't live under the same roof as their kids every night. Damned if you do, damned if you don't when it comes to the kids I reckon.
I'm unsure what my thoughts are towards her attending the funeral service. I can see both sides of it.
Yeah, I'm of that mind as well Briz. The wife, if she did love the husband, would have her soul destroyed to learn that he had a lover of 4 years while already contending with his death. But if the lover was in love with the guy (although she was dating other guys, so not sure about that) then there are things that grieving will cause her to want, even if everyone else says she doesn't deserve those things. | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 1:48:37 AM | I tend to agree with Namaah on this...however I also have a different take as well...two sides to the coin. I cant answer any questions cause this story came via friend via a friend. I think its sad all round..sad for everyone involved. I do feel for Louise because now she has to mourn alone someone she loved, cant even go to the funeral and that must be very hard.
I feel for Karen who has been betrayed ( I assume) and has no knowledge of what scum Greg is/was (I assume). I feel for the child who will grow up now with no father.
I hope that Louise says nothing to Karen in any shape or form, however my question is that Louise was a part of Greg life...a quiet and secret part I admit, but does that make her any less of a person because she fell in love with Greg and has lost him too ? Just a question...working in the industry Im in, I know how important it is to grieve, have funerals, say goodbye etc...and basically I guess Louise will be denied this.
Now if I was Karen, which Im sure glad Im not, I dont think I would want to know all this about Greg (dont speak ill of the dead) and I do hope that Louise says nothing. Karen has to deal with a young child whose lost their father no matter what his values/ethics were and that must be hard enough, so I hope that she doenst learn of Gregs deception...I hope Louise can let it go...but I can understand if she doesnt. I dont think its all clearcut here.
Like I said this story came third hand...at the time of writing this, the funeral had not been arranged, but I guess it will be by the end of the week. Friends of Louise have advised her not to go but last I heard she was adamant.If a funeral is in a public venue, anyone can attend, no one can be denied access especially if it is in a church. I will let you know what he outcome is.
Greg was a cheater but by all accounts a brilliant father...so what does this make him as a person in general in our eyes.?..again just a question...
This story has bothered me all day...and I think its all so terriblely sad...for everyone...no winners here
Ill just reiterate..that Greg and Karen werent married, long term defacto..although I guess that makes no diff as they had a child together..but I dont know whether it was loveless relationship on Karens side. Naturally only heard of Lousie plight thru friend of friend. Louise has I think dated other guys, but from what I heard but not sure, Greg apparently was still the guy for her...but again thats third hand. ...all quite sad ..and I guess the moral in the thread title is...does anyone tell Karen of whats gone on ?, who to the best of our knowledge was faithful to Greg - again dont know..guess theres some upsides to being single !!!.
Rainbowskin..hope you have enjoyed your holiday.. | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 1:53:49 AM | Personally I think going to the funeral would be a bad idea. I can understand why she may want to but if it becomes common knowledge who she is there, then I imagine she will have far more to worry about then grieving for him.
Personally if i was a wife burying my husband and I found out that his lover was there, well she would be in the pit with him quick smart and that would be just the begining! | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 2:03:27 AM | Pookie you said it Quiet and sScret part. of his life . As much as she is hurting she went in with her eyes wide opened .
Married -defacto...committed in my books .
What could Louise possibly gain by making her self known . | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 2:08:33 AM |
Greg from what I hear was ok. Greg had promised Louise that in time, when Stacey is older and more mature with life, he would leave Karen and commence a life with Louise if Louise was still single.
Ok the kicker
On the weekend Greg died suddenly of a massive heart attack while playing tennis
well all I have to say to the last line in effect of the paragraph above it is:
Amen
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 2:10:57 AM | I guess my initial response was a little over the top but I really don't think it's healthy to stay together for the kids. Kids grow up just as well in two households as they do in one.
I have two male friends who stay in loveless relationships (you can't help it if you stop loving someone, and in both cases it's pretty much mutually loveless between them and their respective partners) in order that they can keep being hands on fathers to their kids.
I can understand what you're saying, I cherrish every moment with my kids. I believe though that kids learn from what they see and for a kid to see their parents in a loveless marriage isn't going to teach them how to love very well. | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 2:14:49 AM | im totally unsympathetic about louise here...
she made her bed, and has to lie in it now i think... and if she contacts karen i think its for a purely selfish reason and makes her look even worse on top of the fact she helped a man cheat.
and as for staying together for the kids?? all that does is create a situation where the kids see how a disfunctional relationship is.. and then try to emulate that as an adult thinking its normal.
my ex's parents stayed together for sake of the kids, he was youngest of 4, he had an ucler by time he was 9, it perforated by time he was 19.. and when he was 16 his parents couldn't handle being together anymore and kicked him out coz they needed to go seperate ways.. all 4 of the kids became pretty fooked up because of them staying together.
i meant to add also that, this act of staying together only showed my ex how to have a bad relationship which is exactly what we had, and while some of our probs were unique to his parents, alot of them where exactly what his parents were.
i think its more important for two parents as role models and teachers if they stay together to show their children what is like to have a true loving relationship, not a broken one that is about the children only. | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 2:56:05 AM | | I agree with rainbow and Hilly but also the other problem is Karen may not even believe her and if she doesn't there is no one who can prove it!! | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 3:54:24 AM |
I believe though that kids learn from what they see and for a kid to see their parents in a loveless marriage isn't going to teach them how to love very well.
I totally agree, we teach our children what we live. Children in these house holds are more likely to settle for anyone right from the start and there fore not have a very happy life at all, but hey that is life as that is what they have been taught.
I also agree that louise went in with her eyes open,, lets face it she made her bed as for greg,, he is dead what more karma does he need.
I do feel so sorry for the little girl though. | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 3:57:09 AM | Goddamn there are some bitter women here.
The man finds love outside of his loveless marriage and his death gets an amen, everyone's better off, including her now fatherless 7 year old daughter.
I wish I was perfect so I could be so judgemental and callous.
My response, such as i can be bothered making - Louise should show her love in the only way she has left. By showing respect for the family he tried to keep together. Any desire she might have to "share" the truth is purely selfish. She should suck it up. Tell one of her friends so she has soeone to talk to and leave his family alone to their grief. | |
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| A Very Sad Moral Dilemma
Posted: 4/29/2008 4:09:41 AM | I don't believe she should contact the family at all...she had no contact with them while he was alive and shouldn't in death either.
I'm still in 2 minds about her attending the funeral though. | |
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