| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 4/30/2008 8:44:23 PM | The USA seems on a collision course with itself.
We are in deep, deep national debt and in about 5 years huge numbers of baby boomers are going to be retiring and drawing out Social Security AND using Medicare, younger workers are going to be saddled with taxes to pay the debts we incur now as well as the cost of caring and providing for the retired AND gas and food are skyrocketing with no end in sight.
AND if McCain is voted in for President we will be in Iraq for a very long time and I havent heard much from him about solutions to our financial crises and the collision ahead, but I sure dont think much of his health plan, which is basically to further dissemble group insurance rates sponsored by employers and leave everyone as an individual to deal with insurance companies, which is like fish in a barrel because we know how the "marketplace" works .....premiums will be sky high.
All this money paid out for nothing, a recession looming, low level jobs, no more manufacuring, outsourcing overseas.....2nd and even 3rd jobs ahead just to pay the bills .... what to do? Where to turn? What do we need?
We are already a morally bankrupt country. We have invaded a country on false pretenses, bombed it to smithereens, killed hundreds of thousands of their people, a people who had nothing to do with 911 and never once threatened us or were even capable of being a threat .........and then our government uses old friends like Halliburton and Bechtel to spend our tax dollars to REBUILD all we bombed so that make a ton of money, all of it from our taxes..... .moral people don't do that. We took out our anger at them because it was convenient, we want their oil, whatever .........no one is losing any sleep over it, thats for sure. Who cares about being "moral"?
We need a scapegoat! The Jews have been kind of played out, so havent the illegal immigrants and we need them to sweep up, anyway. We're running out of outgroups. Obviously the elections are like watching loony tunes, there is no serious discussion about anything from anyone, and no one is able to take on the corporations behind the scenes. We need someone, some country, smaller than us, weaker than us, someone we can blame all this on.......someone that has something we want, preferably.
My proposal is: bomb Iran! We have neutron bombs.......these will kill every living thing there but leave all the buildings and infrastructure standing.......it just would turn living things into dust. Theyre the third biggest oil resource and with all that standing and the people out of the way .........well, who wouldnt like to see gas down to $1 a gallon again? There is probably enough oil there for the next hundred years!
And theyre bad people, they dont like us, we dont like them, theyre Islamofundeentalists, theyre brown people, not like us, and future terrorists and its only a matter of time when we have to bomb them, anyway, because they want a nuclear bomb. So theyre the whole reason why things are bad in Iraq, too, Iraq would just settle right down if Iran was put away .........thus, no more debt-financed war. If we did this, we'd probably get rid of Islamofundementalists for good, thus ending the way on terror, too. It would be over for them very quickly, maybe a few million would suffer but we can make sure that we use enough nuetron bombs to finish them all.
Why wait?
With gas cheap, food prices will go down, too, way down........no more 2nd or 3rd jobs, people can spend time with their families again ........the way it used to be. People can invest in AMERICA again instead of piss away their money on gas and food.
We need to do this.......NOW. For America.
Anyone disagree?
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 4/30/2008 8:52:01 PM | I always thought to ask if americans will finally wake up and regain control of it's government ( finally rise up with force ) If Iran was also attacked for no reason like Iraq was and then I thought to myself if they haven't done anything yet they are so completely lost that they deserve the state of their country that they are being forced into.
They say it'll be another couple of weeks and then it's over. When will you wake up. | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 4/30/2008 8:54:02 PM | You can't be serious about bombing Iran. Or are you really?
Then, you should bomb your self first because what Iran is today, USA has a lot to do with it.
We as Americans are the murdurers of democracy in Iran.
Go and read what we did to Iran in 1950s, then you can fantasize about bombing Iran.
Despite all the atrocities committed by Americans on Iran in past 50 something years, the general iranian public still think highly of Americans. Yes, they despise Bush and the American government, but they ncessarily don't despiste American people.
Even the Iranian Mullahs don't want to go to war against USA.
They are only acting tough and showing attitude for the sake of Persian Pride. The day American government will start being reasonable for a change with the government of Iran, you will see the Iranian Mullahs over throwing clowns like current Iranian President volunteerly. | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 4/30/2008 9:20:42 PM | | Iran does not need weapons of mass destruction, but that does not mean we need to get trigger happy. Do you actually think they have a good use for that material? Certainly, they want to drop some on you're hibiscus plant out back. Also, this whole problem that many of you have with the current government, these things have been happening. This country was founded on those exact principles and has continued to journey down that path since it's inception. This joint was taken from the Indians "by force". We instituted slavery "by force" and yet somehow this current government that we have has just continued the "family tradition". | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 4/30/2008 9:49:51 PM | Steven isn't serious about bombing Iran but those people who instigated the attack and invasion of Iraq still have bushs' ear and they slither out from under their rocks to hiss,"Iran is a threat, Iran is a threat." They don't have a valid reason for their claims only lame canards that are easily exposed for what they are.
the worrying part is bush is still susceptible to their influence and they rely on it because as bush says;" fool me once...??? then you can fool me again in Tenessee."
Listen, soon you will hear the hiss, "Iran is a threat, Iran is a threat." | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 4/30/2008 10:26:51 PM | ^^ And the hissing , or a good share of it at least, oftentimes comes from AIPAC lobbyists who (despite their stated purposes) sometimes seem to act as not much more than American shills for the Israeli hard-Right. Zionist-expansionists, and armchair-warmongers, who know Israel can't ever take on Iran alone (it had a hard enough time against Hizbullah alone in summer '06). I'm not laying the blame on "the Jews" because there are a lot of American & European Jews (average secular-type people) who feel as strongly as I do that America should stay as far out of any potential conflict with Iran as possible. It's not them, it's the type who fall in with the Israeli Right party line that I am always suspicious of. And in any case there are also a lot of so-called "Christian-Zionists"; usually evangelical-type radicals who essentially wish for nothing short of disaster in that region in order to bring about the "end of days" and what they believe will then be their own exit in glory from this world straight to heaven. 
Many of those who are most vocally repeating 'Carthago delenda est' in regards to Iran are neo-conservative American hawks (chicken hawks usually -- as many or even most of them have not ever gone to war themselves and don't have draft-eligible children or any children of their own). A good lot of these happen to be Jewish and I honestly question whether at least part of their personal interest in seeing the US attack Iraq was not also motivated by Israeli Right'ish- type of sentiment (eg, Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, etc). One rather blatant and disgusting example of this in online media and academia circles is David Horowitz (former 60's Communist hardliner who did a 180 and is now a shoe-shining Bush'ite and neocon). His site frontpagemagazine might as well be an official organ of the "W" Bush White House at this point, and it is a total neocon clearing house.  | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 5/1/2008 5:56:42 AM | | ModestMouse, I completely agree with you but my thread here tries to reflect some of the thinking I see around me. Just playing the devil's advocate. :-) | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 5/1/2008 8:06:51 AM |
The USA seems on a collision course with itself. You ain't kidding.
We are in deep, deep national debt and in about 5 years huge numbers of baby boomers are going to be retiring and drawing out Social Security AND using Medicare, younger workers are going to be saddled with taxes to pay the debts we incur now as well as the cost of caring and providing for the retired AND gas and food are skyrocketing with no end in sight. If the USA has problems like the UK, it's only going to get worse. UK pensions were protected by gilt-edged bonds, which the government used for their own spending, so now there is far less money for pensions than was put into them. As a result, more and more people are seeking employment in the public sector, because public sector jobs have their pensions protected and guaranteed by the government. So there is a massive hole in the pensions market which only gets bigger and bigger and the people who work in the private sector who are going to suffer.
My proposal is: bomb Iran! We have neutron bombs.......these will kill every living thing there but leave all the buildings and infrastructure standing.......it just would turn living things into dust. This has to be the most ill-thought out suggestion I have ever seen. Neutron bombs convert all the energy of an atomic bomb into fallout, which gets absorbed into the buildings, the infrastructure, and the land itself, making it completely uninhabitable and a death sentence for anyone who lives there, for many decades. You would have to destroy these buildings anyway, before you could begin to use the land. Then there is the fact that fallout kills by radiation poisoning, which doesn't kill people immediately, but makes them die slowly, and painfully, in clearly visible ways, kills babies and children first, and AFAIK, is incurable. But it is also invisible. So in the event of a neutron bomb in a large city, people would not see the danger, and wouldn't leave. So all the people in those cities would develop fatally incurable radiation poisoning. They would see their babies and children die first, then they would see their wives' hair fall out, and slowly fall apart. Witnessing such atrocity would so enrage any normal man, that he would willingly send every WMD and every nuclear warhead against those who sent the bombs. Also, those men would be dying of fatal radiation poisoning anyway, so they would have nothing to live for, and everything to gain, by becoming suicide bombers to avenge the deaths of their family. It would turn Iran into a country of terrorists and suicide bombers overnight, with no advantage whatsoever to Americans, other than to make them the sworn enemies of all Iranians and targets for their own deaths. That is probably why almost every country has banned the use of neutron bombs, including the USA.
Anyone disagree? This would be a great way to spur on so many terrorist attacks, that the American people would refer to 9/11 as "the good ole days".
RE msg 6 by xNEROx:
Many of those who are most vocally repeating 'Carthago delenda est' in regards to Iran are neo-conservative American hawks (chicken hawks usually -- as many or even most of them have not ever gone to war themselves and don't have draft-eligible children or any children of their own). A good lot of these happen to be Jewish and I honestly question whether at least part of their personal interest in seeing the US attack Iraq was not also motivated by Israeli Right'ish- type of sentiment (eg, Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, etc). One rather blatant and disgusting example of this in online media and academia circles is David Horowitz (former 60's Communist hardliner who did a 180 and is now a shoe-shining Bush'ite and neocon). His site frontpagemagazine might as well be an official organ of the "W" Bush White House at this point, and it is a total neocon clearing house. I can see your perspective, as I have met many of these very politically-motivated types of people before. It is no coincidence that a lot of these people are Jewish. However, the reasons that so many ardent neo-cons are Jewish is not so obvious, and is do to with the anti-religious "melting pot" culture present in the USA and in most Western countries. Judaism is an all-encompassing religion, that gives a sense of community, support, and focus, from the cradle to the grave. Once Jews started abandoning Orthodox Judaism in mass numbers, in an attempt to assimilate into the general population, and to be accepted as one of them, they unconsciously made an emotional and intellectual vacuum in their lives. Many non-religious Jews have attempted to fill the vacuum in their lives, by grabbing hold of the values espoused by these secular cultures with both hands, and seeking to find in them a solution that such a culture never claimed to provide or was ever capable of providing. So these Jews have often jumped head first into Communism, as Horowitz did in his earlier years, or Neo-Conservatism, as Horowitz now does, pushing these principles to their extremes, and it is that extremism that makes them toxic to society. How ironic it is, that Orthodox Judaism actually straddles both sides, and preaches moderation in all things, especially politics and business, as is exemplified by the details of Orthodox Jewish Law, which states both that competition is good for the economy, encouraging a free market, but that one may not sell any item 1/6th (17%) above the market price, giving limits to just how far a free market may go.
It is never healthy to just give up on an system of belief without thinking it all through, because you are going from an extreme, and those who leave an extreme too quickly, will almost always go to another extreme.
I realise that this is not something that most people like the idea of. But I don't deal in what people like. I deal with what is. And this is what I see all too often. Extremism in any direction is always bad for us, even if it is in a direction that would be the most beneficial, if it was in moderation. | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 5/1/2008 8:54:06 AM | Oh good lord......or should I say House of Lords?
The OP is referring to 'A Modest Proposal' in which Johnathan Swift suggests to Parliment that the solution to the Irish Famine (which the Brit gov had a helping hand in) was to have them eat Irish babies.
The US has played a similar role in the formenting of the problems caused by the current state of Iranian politics....so the OP is proposing an equally appalling solution to the modern crisis. Hoping like Swift, I assume, that the glaring nature of the solution will startle some folks out of their current mindset.
As I recall, Swift's treatise did not have the desired effect either.  | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 5/1/2008 9:17:43 AM | ^^^ scorpiomover thanks for the response on that. Interesting insights. I agree that a good part of it must have had to do with the loss of any real spiritual life amongst not only Jews but Xians as well. I think that seemed to be the case with many of the early or mid-20th century Jewish-American Communists; "the god that failed", as that one compendium of essays was titled , wasn't it?
We both mentioned Horowitz; I've read Horowitz's autobio (I think it was called "Radical Son") and his trajectory does indeed seem to have been from extremist to ....well, extremist of another sort now, basically. He detailed how he went from being a staunch Panther-backer and hanger-on in the 60's, once even chauffering around the well-known author (and supporter of black American radicalism) Jean Genet, to eventually strongly suspecting the Panthers in the death of a lady friend of his by the name of Betty VanPatter (if I recall) and how her demise led to the eventual......failing of his "god", so to speak. I just resent and dislike him today, personally, for taking such an (what is IMO at least) obnoxious stubbornly pro-Bush pro-neocon view and holding so tightly to it despite everything that's happening.
I just basically think the fact that so many of the neocons (like quite a few of the "architects" of the Iraq invasion) were Jewish has fanned the flames of potential anti-Jewish sentiment amongst not only the usual suspects on the radical Right but on the Left and even in some of the "mainstream" as well at times (though it's not ever usually brought up in public of course). I myself have (admittedly) from time-to-time had to struggle to remind myself that their "Jewishness" is not the issue , indeed they're not even remotely religious in most cases, but I do still feel that concern for Israel's long-term best interests (as opposed to their own country's best interests) could be an issue with some of these neocons frankly. | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 5/1/2008 9:34:50 AM | "My proposal is: bomb Iran! We have neutron bombs.......these will kill every living thing there but leave all the buildings and infrastructure standing.......it just would turn living things into dust. Theyre the third biggest oil resource and with all that standing and the people out of the way .........well, who wouldnt like to see gas down to $1 a gallon again? There is probably enough oil there for the next hundred years!"
Killing about 60 million people in a surprise nuclear strike would be a war crime which would make the Holocaust pale in comparison. If a head of state ordered such an attack, I would demand that the President and the entire administration be put on trial for war crimes. Besides, bombarding Iran with an all-out nuclear attack would drive the price of oil up much further, as the radioactive contamination would make the land uninhabitable, as well as killing the people who could operate oil and natural gas extraction facilities, and also destroying the infrastructure itself. Wind patterns would also carry fallout over the wider Gulf Region, and also into other adjacent areas such as Southern Europe, North Africa, and the Caucases. Tens of millions of more people would die, and it is likely most of the oil refineries in the Middle East would have to shut down because of radioactivity.
Millions more people would be displaced, which would produce a flood of refugees, many of whom would seek asylum in Europe and the West. This would severely disrupt the regional and global economy, and also cause massive social upheaval in the Middle East, South-West Asia, and Europe, with flow on effects to the rest of the world. The world's energy supply would also be crippled (due to the massive reduction in oil and gas supplies) and one doesn't need to be too clever to figure out what effect that would have.
It is also possible a massive nuclear strike would also trigger a nuclear winter, which would wipe out all agricultural production in the Northern Hemisphere. This would possibly lead to tens or hundreds of millions of more deaths from disease, economic collapse, and starvation.
An attack like this would also make the Islamic world declare all-out war on the West and the consequences would last centuries. Following a massive nuclear strike from a country that kills 60 million of your religious bretheren, if you were the leader of an oil-rich Islamic nation, would you be willing to sell your natural resources to such a country?
A more reasonable modest proposal would be investing a few more billion or so dollars in renewable energy research. | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 5/1/2008 9:56:47 AM | An attack like this would also make the Islamic world declare all-out war on the West
- ha ha ha ha ha - like the haven't done THAT already?????? | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 5/1/2008 1:10:24 PM | For the slow kids, and it seems like there will be a few out there who didn't get through much English Lit., re-read msg 10 about a dozen times...now stand on your head in a bucket of piranha fish...now read msg 10 again...now re-read the OP, now go read Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal"
http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html
Go....Ahhhh...Now I get it.
*weeps* for the generation that doesn't get a literary reference of such importance.
And kudos to nightwing66 for clarifying it for the kiddies and the pun in msg 8 | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 5/1/2008 1:46:35 PM | Presidential candidates tend to promise one thing and do exactly the opposite:
We voted for Johnson because Goldwater was going to escalate the war in Vietnam.
We voted for Nixon because he was the "Law and Order" candidate. Probably the most corrupt administration (most number of aides and high-level officials convicted of crimes) since Harding. Killed the Apollo space program and all but eliminated the manned space program, which still hasn't fully recovered.
Gerry Ford was a nice guy. Probably a good president, but since he wasn't elected, he never had to lie to us.
Jimmy Carter was so competent at business, he was going to "fix" the economy. Thanks to him, some credit cards still charge 29% APR. And the prime rate went over 20% on his watch...
Reagan, the "Great Communicator," also promised to "fix" the economy. Tripled the National Debt. Escalated an arms race with the USSR that bankrupted them, and nearly did so to us as well. Kept interest rates low by encouraging massive unemployment.
Should I go on? It seems to me the thing to do is vote for the one that promises to do the least: fewer lies, fewer betrayals. | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 5/1/2008 1:59:39 PM | Don't get your panties all in a knot ... angelking. You know perfectly well that the 'Whole of Islam' has not ... at least not ... yet ... declared an all-out war, even though many seem to think we should keep egging them on until they to do just that.
@Steven02151
Regarding: A Modest Proposal about Iran
I must unfortunately agree with the dire economic accessment you forecast, yes we are now in waste deep in shit, and all the sewers keep backing up ... and in another five years ... well its going to be an incredible mess, and yes the perfect financial storm is just brewing out there on the near horizon. So I agree something MUST be done and QUICK.
And while I can see the great utility of invoking a SCAPEGOAT ... I'm wondering if its really necesary that we should have to actually kill them all, as I'm jusifiably concerned at the wasteful loss of human life as a valuable commodity in itself.
Here's what I'm thinking, that instead of just wasting a possibly valuable resource, that we devise a method to utilize it instead ... and if you bear with me a moment you'll see how this ties in.
What I'm wondering is ... if we're going to go whole hog, we just might want to consider making the Iranians Our Slaves ... instead of merely killing them all, in at least trying to salvage the possibly productive ones
I know it's a rather novel idea and certainly it would be wrought with challenges, but remember, We Are Americans, and God Knows there are Not a More Resourceful People on Planet Earth ... than American's ... we were made for taking on the tough challenge ... That's Who We Are.
So what I was thinking, is that with a little bit of Good Ol' Ameri-Can-Do Ingenuity, we get to cracking on developing a better Nuetron Device ... one that might only 'neuter' ... those elements of the Iranian population that would not serve a productive function and target only those who would prove a drain to maintenance costs ... its a simple cost benefit analysis really ... say as an 'off the top my head guess' anyone outside of or beyond the range of 12 to 50 years old?
Like I said that was just an outside guess on a useful age range of Iranians to salvage, but that could be worked out later I guess, the important thing to focus on, is ... could it be done?
I am fully aware there will be a host of Naysayers out there, Negative Nellys (who frankly I wonder how they manage to wipe thier own asses) that will say, 'No, We Can't' ... but since when did such Gloomy Gus's and Pansy Assed Mouth Breathers ever accomplish AnyThing of Value ... they are simply quitters by nature, defeated before they start, and I am no QUITTER, and neither is any True American.
So, I know there would be difficult technical challenges invloved, I'm just saying, We Could Handle it.
So, beyond the challenges, just think of what problems this might solve.
Here's an example of how I see this being implemented.
Every neighborhood in America gets a few Iranians, say between 2 to 10 of them, depending on population density ... the idea is, we would spread the wealth, so that everybody benefitted and none would be left out.
The beauty of this proposal is that it would totally solve the Mexican immigrant problem as well, because who needs 'cheap labor' when you can get it done for 'real slave wages' ... meaning 'free' ... except for the standard maintenance costs, of course
And we already have considerable experience in this sort of thing, both in working with the Mexicans at present, and then in the historical context, experience with African slaves as well.
Hey, I just thought of something, just another sudden thought in brainstaorming all this ... suppose we give all the African Americans ... a higher percentage of Iranian Slaves ... as a 'reperations package' for all the past wrongs ... that would give the Black Comunity a real opportunity to catch up financially to the rest of the culture ... wow, give it a few generations of having their very *own slaves'*, and they wouldn't need any sort of 'Affirmative Action' crap, and all this Jerimiah Wright nonsense could really become just a thing of the past.
Wow, we could tell pinko chink China to go fuch themselves, just think of it, manufacturing could return to America, outsourcing a thing of the past, because what's cheaper than free labor. We wouldn't need China's slaves we'd have our own.
Oh well, I've rambled on and on here, so sorry about that, but still, I'm interested in what you all might think.
Caw | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 5/1/2008 2:07:29 PM | Scariest talks my friend! I can see the humor in your voice but still the words sounds hard.
I think we need to learn to live to gether in a larger world, a world with no barrier, borders, nations or races.
After all we all part of a bigger human race ....I like to think we do what is right for us. For those who live in this country, for my family, my home, my friends, my nation, my country. But on the other hand I guess i like to think I am a good person and I am not harming others. So i would say and i say it in any subject including these big bad wars!, let us be good and do good, and wait for agression before being aggressive!
After all aggression is originated from the estate of a negative mind. Why do we want to be this negative, paranogiad mind!
Be kind and happy, you and all of you in this dating/social website, and all of us out there who look for answer and search for love, kindness, or other things...!
I just hope no one who reads these notes or is around us is evil and /or looks for evils to do!
 Ni | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 5/1/2008 2:13:49 PM | let's not forget to stomp on some baby chickens ~ while we are going about all this ~
just for puncuniation and general effect ~ that'll prove beyond all doubt that we truly are bad in the bone and mean business. ~dar
PS ~ comee ~ steve is just being absurd ~ applying insanity with the insanity he sees and hears. | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 5/1/2008 2:14:26 PM | The consquences would last..........."centuries", you say?
WOOOOOOOOOOOOO-EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lordy, I seen the light! I'm gonna make me some friends in Congress and put a little defense-related company together and get me one of them million dollar contracts ........and watch the orders come pouring in!!!!!!!!!!!!! And then my kids and their kids and all the kids gonna run that company down the generations..... hmmmm, maybe build a better body bag....
Ain't life GRAND...........for some? | |
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| A Modest Proposal about Iran
Posted: 5/1/2008 4:28:26 PM | "Well, that certainly would be a swift resolution......"
Thank God SOMEBODY got the joke!!
As for the rest...just Google "Jonathan Swift; A Modest Proposal" | |
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