| Where is God?
Posted: 5/2/2008 11:28:44 AM | If there was any clearer evidence that "God" at the very least, is not the
omnipresent force of goodness and mercy that I was raised to believe
in, you dont have to go anyfurther than the recent case in Austria of the
father who raped and destroyed his own child for 24 years.
Even by the standards of our own primative human morality and ethics,
to stand by and watch with such cold, monumental indifference to such suffering,
day afetr day, month after month, decade after decade, at the very least would be considered a crime of depraved indifference.
To all those well meaning people who pray to such a God, you are wasting your
time. Dont waste your life on such a sadistic prick. | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/2/2008 12:24:13 PM | Dude... that last sentence is quite aggressive..... This thread might not last too long.
I won't vote it out because i agree with you completely....(well i don't believe so i don't blame any god)
I can feel your anger. And as for that guy in Austria.... that's a man doing something vile and disgusting and he deserves to spend the rest of his life in excruciating pain. | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/2/2008 5:46:35 PM | What does that case in Austria have to do with the existence of God?
I would hope that this person who was afflicted all those years would know that God had nothing to do with what happened to them. Its a real shame when evil is in the world every day and we get a topic like this "where is God".
This thread should not last with your end statement. | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/2/2008 6:10:25 PM | I get one impression of people who blame God for their problems.....other peoples problems.....not intervening, etc., a lack of responsibility to accept what is instead of blaming things on something we can neither see or touch. | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/2/2008 6:20:44 PM | [What does that case in Austria have to do with the existance of God]
well is God good or isnt he I think the question is a good one . I dont belive in the God of the bible but if there is a god that made the energy/mass of the universe perhaps he is not all -knowing perhaps, if he intruded in the universe the results would be worse than if he does nothing. in anycase cold monumental indifferance are loaded terms perhaps GOD would say if he could"i want to scream but I have no mouth." | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/2/2008 6:40:50 PM |
What does that case in Austria have to do with the existence of God?
The mystery of why an all-loving god would allow such things to occur boggles some peoples minds. | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/2/2008 7:44:07 PM |
The mystery of why an all-loving god would allow such things to occur boggles some peoples minds.
Ever read the book of Job in the bible? A righteous man all his life but yet evil came upon him and his entire family. Read it, very hard understanding at first but there are lessons to learn there. | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/2/2008 8:05:02 PM | If you mean in a theological sense .... I have no idea.
If you mean inner self .... I have a personal theory.
If you mean Eric Clapton .... He currently resides with his young family at "Hurtwood Edge" near Ewhurst Surrey England. | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/2/2008 8:25:04 PM | Ever read the book of Job in the bible?
I just read some at Wikipedia - Job was still a good man even in adversity, which spoke volumes of his character
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/2/2008 8:33:35 PM |
Where is God
Inside you.
Well to steal a joke from Jack Handey,
"Then I sure hope he likes cold pizza and Harp Lager for supper because that's what He's getting *burp*"  | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/2/2008 9:27:24 PM | I'm not sure what lesson's there are to be learned.....other than not to be anywhere near God when he wants to experiment with his creations. God if he is omniscient and omnipotent as he is claimed to be, would have known the outcome of the Job experiment/wager even before the experiment/wager was conducted. All God would need to have said to satan was...I'm God....I'm omniscient and omnipotent...so trust me. No need to put Job and his family through the torment that he had.
I note that God's experiment /wager did not follow a scientific methodology.....no double or triple blind testing protocol....so the outcome of the experiment could have been compromised by observer bias, experimenter bias, experimental design faults etc....perhaps God chose Job, because he knew that job would not give up on God....It would help to choose a subject that will give the outcome that you wish to prove. Although it may demonstrate the point you wish to prove.,...but the result cannot be taken as a reliable.
I note that God's experiment consisted of a sample of one (1) i.e. Job......you can't count Job's family....as they themselves weren't being tested, they were merely variables to test the degree of Job's faith in god, not that they probably would have appreciated becoming nonconsenting participants of this rather shoddy experiment..(indicating that God, didn't seem to give much consideration to the ethical implications of the experimental methodology chosen). A sample population of 1 would not indicate much in the way of predictability.
God's experiment with Job seems to have been conducted without any ethical restraint. God would have failed in his duty of care to his subject, and would not have complied even minimally with the Declaration of Helsinki (1964), regarding ethical research.....of which I have extracted below some of the salient points.
III. Non-Therapeutic Biomedical Research Involving Human Subjects (Non-Clinical Biomedical Research)
In the purely scientific application of medical research carried out on a human being, it is the duty of the physician to remain the protector of the life and health of that person on whom biomedical research is being carried out.
The subjects should be volunteers- either healthy persons or patients for whom the experimental design is not related to the patient's illness.
The investigator or the investigating team should discontinue the research if in his/her or their judgment it may, if continued, be harmful to the individual.
In research on man, the interest of science and society should never take precedence over considerations related to the well-being of the subject.
http://www.cirp.org/library/ethics/helsinki/
Even if the Job experiment, was merely an allegory, rather than an absolute factual truth.....it does not say much in favour of the God that is being promoted by the bible....except to wonder whether he does in fact love his creations, and the degree to which he is actually merciful..... | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/2/2008 9:36:35 PM | Yes, I am sad that Job went through all that but God did reward him
Suffering is a part of this life and no one suffered more than Jesus
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/3/2008 2:31:11 AM |
Yes, I am sad that Job went through all that but God did reward him
I am not sure so much that it was a matter of reward as a matter of compensation for the physical and mental trauma inflicted upon Job, for no better reason than one supernatural entity's pointless bet with another supernatural entity. Although Job had the opportunity of having 7 sons and 3 daughters, post rehabilitation.....his first 6 or 7 sons and three daughters remained crushed to death under the rubble of their eldest brother's house. Similarly, the corpses of Job's servants...who all deserved to live out their lives unmolseted by supernatural entities, remained rotting in the fields together with the cattle that they had once tended. No apparent rehabilitation to life for those nonconsenting particpants of God's bet. It is likely that Job, would have been just as content being the righteous man that he had always been, with the family that he had before he was cruelly deprived of them, than to have been given all the "rewards" that God later bestowed upon him.
Suffering is a part of this life and no one suffered more than Jesus
How do you conclude that Jesus suffered more than anyone else??? | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/3/2008 4:33:50 AM | where is God?
what a silly question! God was 'created' by man to try to justify what is around us. thousands years ago there was not technology nor science, so to explain everything we thought of someone powerfull above in heaven or something similar.
now technology and science tell us that God does not exist.
for those who believe in God, who created God? who created the one who firstly created God? is God male or female? does he have a c.ock or p.ussy? which language does he or she speak? has he or she developed wings to visit not only this planet Earth where we live but the rest of the universe? | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/3/2008 6:47:07 AM | the man in question is a very distorted and unbalanced person who is unable to honor the divinity in himself, never mind his daughter.....and for all you know, he may have been raised to believe his actions were not wrong.
it is horrifying, yet please remember torture has been part of humanity's abuse towards each other forever.....
you ask where is god? some say 'he' is everything in the universe/galaxy/ existence .....the whole from which we are differentiated aspects, but all connected.....so god is everywhere.
for me i have come to think of it as the energy/light/consciousness that flows through all of existence....including humanity of course.
i have heard that part of the process of finding out who we truly are is seeing and experiencing who we are not - and the man in question is a prime example of what is not our true nature - of what happens when we lose all sense of compassion and empathy for another....to this extreme.
my personal belief is yes there are horrific things going on in the world such as torture and terrorism and total disrespect of each other because all aspects of being human have to manifest until we really can find our true respect for each other and humanity (our divine/loving/godly aspects)..... which will only happen when we truly can see each other as ourselves. only then will we really be able to stop the cruelty when we can see we are inflicting the torture on ourselves.
so the ones who said god is inside us and is you (and me)....i agree......even to the point of admitting i share something with that man who is so distorted, and i share something with his daughter who was so tortured.....asking where is god or blaming god for our actions as people is not honoring that we all play a part in how we treat each other. after all, we were given free will - how we act with it is our responsibility.
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/3/2008 7:13:57 AM | God says...... "I made it, but its up to you lot to sort it out"
Dunno man maybe that austrian guy hates himself for what he did and once he began he couldn't see how to stop.?
Not that I am excusing the evil mofo but.. | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/3/2008 10:36:04 AM |
Suffering is a part of this life and no one suffered more than Jesus
Ouch.... that's a pretty inhumane and arrogant statement, no ?
Dare I list the repulsively tortureous sufferings and deaths of various peoples of the world ?
Your true colours are showing, fleur de lis.
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/3/2008 12:26:17 PM | AncientMuse:
Ouch.... that's a pretty inhumane and arrogant statement, no ?
Dare I list the repulsively tortureous sufferings and deaths of various peoples of the world ?
Your true colours are showing, fleur de lis.
Not particularly.
Of course, on the surface, one could list many sufferings and deaths which were more brutal than Christ's, including those of many Christian martyrs.
However, from the perspective of Christian faith, fleur de lis's statement is still true. Since we believe that Christ is the incarnation of God, the suffering that He endured on a spiritual level was infinitely greater than that which any mortal human can endure. | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/3/2008 1:25:35 PM | Jacobus101 wrote:
However, from the perspective of Christian faith, fleur de lis's statement is still true. Since we believe that Christ is the incarnation of God, the suffering that He endured on a spiritual level was infinitely greater than that which any mortal human can endure.
Then again Jesus is not a mere mortal, is he? Is there a level of pain his divine nature can't withstand? Not to mention that I would like to know how the pain he endured on a spiritual level is measured. At least he had his divine nature to help him | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/3/2008 1:25:59 PM | God is no sadistic prick.
He has given humans free will. And Yes, People have chosen to screw others using their free will. Who are we to judge God on when he should intervene into human affairs and when not. He did let You lie to anothers face last week. Yes, I AM equating your white lies to the heinous acts of that **stard of a man in Austria. God had decided to let people do their thing, and let them decide their fate. Are they going to admit to God that they are frail humans with weak wills, unable to keep themselves from: hurting others or failing to help others.
It is just as wrong not to extend good will to another person as it is to do harm by stealing, killing, raping or lying.... All people come way short of even being accepted by God of their own merits. To please God by merit alone is to attemt to cross an ocean on foot through the middle of a huricane. That is why he sent his Son to take our weakness away. Doesn't keep us from failing in the day to day living, but does offer hope that these failings are just temporary. In the long run all this will be a distant memory, and mankind can finaly fulfill the destiny that was once lost.
Accept it or not, I'm not that concerned. You have your God given right to believe the wrong thing just as I do. Just know that despite it all, God does care and wishes for people to know him better. Whether people change their mind about him or not will not change the reality of his being, only the reality experienced by the people. | |
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| Where is God?
Posted: 5/3/2008 1:42:39 PM |
God is no sadistic prick
A quick read of The Old Testament would tend to disagree with you
e has given humans free will.
This argument keeps popping up time and time again, yet it is so easily refuted.
According to Christian belief - God made me. Therefore he made me a disbeliever. ie: God is omniscient, so when he made me he knew in advance that I would be a disbeliever, therefore he, and he alone made me a disbeliever ,thus denying me of the free will to believe in him. | |
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