| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 5:58:40 AM | I find this proposal very silly and in simpler terms a "Political Sham".
Clinton and McCains Proposal is for reactionary votes at best and does little to solve our energy problems.
According to Fact Check.
James Hamilton, professor of economics at the University of California at San Diego, said that most of the benefits from a temporary tax moratorium would likely go to producers rather than consumers. He said that states that suspend gas taxes are able to respond to rising demand more efficiently than the country as a whole, because gasoline supplies can be easily moved from one state to another.
"Prices would certainly rise to the market-clearing level," said Hamilton. "I would expect the price [of gas] to go back to very close to where it was before [the tax cut], in which case consumers would not see any benefit."
Sounds like a "Lose-Lose" situation. Gives the consumers reason to drive more not less. Takes away money's from badly needed infrastructure and road funds. And then what happens after Labor Day? Perhaps Sticker Shock? I mean do you think the American public is that dense? And what kills me is the position on this even more laughable is when I read that "Clinton said she would make up the lost revenue by imposing a "windfall profits tax" on oil companies." Umm... if the oil companies are hit with this tax, do you really think that they'll pay it out of pocket, or pass the cost on to the consumers with higher gas prices? I'm betting they'll pass that cost on to us. I find this very short-sighted and a stupid way to appease the restless. Obama is right...No Tax Holiday and the more important issue is " Do you want the candidate that will pander and say everything you want to hear? Or do you support the candidate that looks at our problems with an educated, objective eye and recognizes that quick fixes won't get us where we want to be?" | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 6:15:54 AM | I am going to be driving a lot more when prices drop to $3.25....
The " American public is that dense"....
Those old Oil Companies... Who would ever think they would do that raise prices.... ( FTC.. SEC... Congress)
Wind Fall tax No way. They work hard for there Billions of profit.
Most Economist would say we should raise taxes on Gas. That Sounds like a Good Idea. Reducing consumption.
Head on over to the Truck stop and talk to those folks about haw stupid it would be......... | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 6:18:57 AM | Hillary could ask for the permanent repeal of "The Clinton Nickel". You know, the 5 cents of the gas tax her husband put on there.
Taxing corporations. There's a novel idea. That's always kept jobs in America.
As one who lived through a state gas tax holiday... Obama's state. We never noticed. | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 6:51:27 AM | . So Exxon would what move? Quit selling gas?
How much of the current Profit is in a shell off shore... not taxed....
How much income has been expensed by a Stock Repurchase....
The Fed's have the power to prevent Consumer Rape. | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 7:09:04 AM | The Fed's have the power to prevent Consumer Rape.
True! How does Clinton-McCain proposal on a Gas Tax Holiday solve anything?
Clinton has proposed a "windfall profits tax" on oil companies to replace the money her proposal would take from the nation's infrastructure budget. The merits of that tax should be fully debated elsewhere. But the irony here is that a gas tax holiday could increase profits for the very firms Clinton says are making too much money now.
Here's why: The gasoline supply for the summer is pretty well fixed. If the price suddenly drops by 18 cents a gallon, however, motorists who have been cutting back on their driving will suddenly drive more, using more gas. That increase in demand will push the price back up again, perhaps to the same level it was before the gas tax was suspended.
And as gas prices float upward, revenue that would have been going for infrastructure would now be pure profit for the oil industry. The only way to avoid this scenario would be to freeze gas prices at the lower level, but that would almost certainly lead to shortages.
Obama understands this, which is why he has refused to pander on an issue over which it is easy to score cheap political points. Clinton and McCain could not resist that temptation, even though they surely know better. Shame on them.
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 7:29:18 AM | . Your are correct. I think the McCain plan is crap. | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 7:35:03 AM |
Your are correct. I think the McCain plan is crap.
Yep I do! And Clintons is crap as well, unless you can prove to me otherwise. | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 7:42:25 AM | . Why not post something about the Clinton plan.... | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 7:45:28 AM | | Q: Is it better to have a bad plan; or to claim that the tax holiday is a bad plan because you really have no plan because you are receiving megabuck contributions from executives of the petroleum industry? | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 7:49:25 AM | .
The Clinton plan is aid to small business. Truckers would save 2 billion over the summer.
What will the stock options to Oil CEO's be???
If leadership of the US allowed the Price to go up because of this tax shift...... we need all new leadership. And steps toward price controls...
No Corporation should be allowed to take down the economy of the country like happening today.
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 8:11:37 AM | Bad plans are always great. Kinda like NO plans..? 
-Suth'nBoy
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 8:57:54 AM | Why don't you call it what it is? Political Pandering. Show me an economist that thinks this will save Consumers and Business's money.
Here are some experts opinions on the "Gas Holiday Tax"
Jerry Taylor, a fellow for the Cato Institute, unfortunately, called the proposal a "holiday from reality."
"What would happen more likely than not, gas taxes would be cut, but pump prices wouldn't go down, service stations would just continue charging what they are charging,"
Holiday from reality huh? Not if it means getting some votes!
Max Schulz, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute.
"I think it is close to political pandering it is bad policy and political gimmickry. If you want to deliver relief to folks you have to do more than just this little holiday from the gas tax. You have to address what is driving the price of crude oil, even problems with the weak dollar.
Roger Tauss, the International Vice President for the Transport Worker's Union
"It is crazy, there is a bunch of different reason it is crazy and all the economist are saying it is nuts. First of all it is pocket change and it doesn't do anything short term. It will just put more money in the oil companies pockets. It is typical Washington beltway crap. It is just like typical. They make a big fight over a small, nothing issue, and nothing will ever get done."
Even the truckers union?
Robert Shapiro, formerly the undersecretary of commerce in the Clinton Administration
"Stated as clearly as I can," he wrote, "it's utterly misguided both environmentally and economically. Environmentally, it does actual harm, since it reduces the price of producing greenhouse gases. And economically it's trivial or worse -- by reducing the price of driving it encourages more of it, thereby increasing demand for gasoline, which inevitably pushes the price back up - the consumer gains nothing, and the oil companies and OPEC collect the extra bucks instead of the government."
Even the American Trucking Association, the group the Clinton camp says is most favorable to it's idea, offers a tepid thanks but no thanks. From the group's spokesperson
ATA appreciates the effort and supports the proposals. But we do have concerns that any fuel tax suspension proposal could damage the already ailing Highway Trust Fund. To the extent that McCain and Snowe's proposals use general revenue funds to offset the hit to the trust fund, that concern is addressed. ATA did not ask for this legislation. And we believe it is only a very short term answer that does not do anything to address the longer term issue of rising fuel prices. ATA recognizes that rising fuel costs have a disproportionate impact on small trucking companies where even a small savings can be the difference in their staying in business
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 9:10:10 AM | What's the plan for this?
Oil passes $122 on $200 oil prediction, supply concerns Tuesday May 6, 11:41 am ET By John Wilen, AP Business Writer
I'm not going to knock $30 this summer. I say we do it and see what happens. But it's not addressing any problems. Instead of symbolic plans equivalent to taking an aspirin, why doesn't someone work on coming up with plans to cure the disease? | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 9:14:48 AM |
The Fed's have the power to prevent Consumer Rape. No Corporation should be allowed to take down the economy of the country like happening today.
and therin we find the problem as the Feds and the corps. are running the show, thus pandering is the only thing this is about. I agree, it is a lose/lose for the people, except for George Bush's "base". As McSame is just that, and Hillary is also for it should be enough to see the writing on the wall for what it is..... | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 11:59:42 AM |
and therin we find the problem as the Feds and the corps. are running the show, thus pandering is the only thing this is about. I agree, it is a lose/lose for the people, except for George Bush's "base". As McSame is just that, and Hillary is also for it should be enough to see the writing on the wall for what it is.....
One thing I agree with is that the big Oil companies are gouging us. However we Americans haven't been the best at conserving energy have we? We demand it! And we want it Cheap! Less then two years ago the best selling US autos were SUV's with pathetic gas mileage. Now we complain when we should have been part of the solution. Hillary and McCain are tugging on our emotions on this. Nothing more. Obama took the stand and told the truth. Refreshing to some-Plain old shocking to others | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 12:07:59 PM | No one is trying to resolve the world's energy problems for the long-term here.
It is simply a temporary relief measure. Not unlike the Tax Rebate which I doubt anyone is sending back to the IRS..
They are two very separate things. But there's nothing wrong with temporary relief for those who are seriously struggling. No matter what level it may be.
Obama is opposing it only because he didn't come up with it first. That's where the politics can be found.
-Suth'nBoy
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 12:44:34 PM |
It is simply a temporary relief measure. Not unlike the Tax Rebate which I doubt anyone is sending back to the IRS..
They are two very separate things. But there's nothing wrong with temporary relief for those who are seriously struggling. No matter what level it may be.
Obama is opposing it only because he didn't come up with it first. That's where the politics can be found.
I disagree. The simple relief you speak of will come back to haunt us. Not only will we eventually pay more, we lose the road funds for this so called "Holiday".
The politics can be found with McCain and Clinton they are trying to trick the simpletons. And check the history, Obama voted for tax gas holiday before in Illinois. It didn't work then and he knows it won't work now. Why? It is Economics 101. Cutting the tax would drive up demand for gas at a time when supply is tight, which would in turn mean that the price at the pump would drop by less than 18 cents per gallon. In addition the tax suspension would, as a result, cut into the highway trust fund the tax supports — a loss of about $9 billion over the summer, which Clinton says she would replace by raising taxes on oil companies — but also result in fatter profit margins for oil companies. What you learn in Economics 101 is that if producers can't produce much more, when you cut the tax on that good, the tax (savings) is kept ... by the suppliers and is not passed on to consumers.
What we have here is McCain and Clinton basically playing simpleton politics and Obama truth telling.
I will take Truth Telling for $1000 Alex | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 12:48:15 PM |
Obama took the stand and told the truth. Refreshing to some-Plain old shocking to others
This will help me............ha
the Illinois senator does have a plan to help those people who's wallets are hurting right now. "$1,000 tax credit for working families which is $1,000 right off your taxes,"
Tell the truckers how meaningless this tax shift would be... they would just drive more...
Less then two years ago the best selling US autos were SUV's with pathetic gas mileage.
Why do the same cars built in China...(more Buicks were built in China last year than in the USA)... get 10 more MPG...... ...
That crazy Clinton wants 55 mpg in the next 5 years.... That would ruin the US auto makers... | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 12:55:12 PM |
Q: Is it better to have a bad plan; or to claim that the tax holiday is a bad plan because you really have no plan because you are receiving megabuck contributions from executives of the petroleum industry?
do you have a 401k sir? a Roth IRA? any kind of mutual fund at all? If you don't well crap, ill be paying for your retirement i suppose. If you do, you are more than likely reaping the benefits of the oil industry as well.
People have this idea that these large corperations areheaded by barons sitting on a throne commanding mere Earthlings to do as they please. The reality is, while they make a lot of money selling oil, so does anyone who has a retirement plan that has their stocks. They don't have these windfall profits people are talking about, the telling taleis the profit margin, where they were about equal to almost all industries in the country. They are just giant corperations, putting humungous amounts of money into their business, selling a ton of gas, so they make a lot of money. Its no different than if the corn industry was anywhere near as big as them and THEY made 40 billion in profits. Well its different because people wouldnt **** about it | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 12:59:16 PM |
I disagree. The simple relief you speak of will come back to haunt us. Not only will we eventually pay more, we lose the road funds for this so called "Holiday".
Clinton calls for a Wind Fall tax.... No pain to Road funds...
Econ 101.... market is changing small cars and Hybreds are selling .... Econ 101 ....we are going to be ask to bail the US auto out... soon... BIG stuff over built... just like 75-79 Econ 101 .... Corporations rule.. No way we can stop them from stealing as much as they can....
So while every one Bit ches about cutting the gas tax... we will give oil incentives to diversify... loan huge amounts of money to US auto because they did not want higher cafe standards and insisted on only building 300 hp 4000 lb units.... Higher profits remember... Record profits not so long ago.... | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 1:16:22 PM | this is a band aid solution to a hemorrhagic problem....
why not just take that money from where it normally goes and put it toward a LONG TERM solution? | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 1:26:55 PM |
Not unlike the Tax Rebate which I doubt anyone is sending back to the IRS..
Actually mine is going into my savings account to sit and accumulate $1 interest so I can send it on back next year. | |
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 1:27:15 PM | . We better get some leadership that will focus on all of it...
Most don't understand the depth of problem...NOW
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| Gas Tax Holiday? Posted: 5/6/2008 1:29:53 PM | Wolves-lower .... I hear you. We are getting sticker shock, but the truth is that we in the US pay less than half of what many other western(ized) countries pay for a gallon of gas and cheap gas means more SUVs, that means more carbon emissions and global warming, etc. And the gas mileage IS pathetic on so many new cars. I saw a brand new mini-SUV that got 13 mpg city driving and was shocked they are still making these.
It will take high gas for Americans to demand smaller, more efficient cars. If gas is cheap, they won't. Simple.
I don't know if Big Oil is to blame, IF all they are doing is passing on their costs ...but then I don't know WHY the profit margins are increasing, i.e. why it's a "windfall". A windfall means your costs stay the same, but the price of the product goes up, thus your profit margins spike......... does anyone know, and how oil hedges and futures bid the price up?
We dont need gimmicks. We need a windfall tax that will go to automakers to retool to build ultra-efficient engines and government mandages on them for fuel efficiency.
In the meantime, you and I need to suffer. | |
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