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Posted: 5/7/2008 6:42:48 PM | http://news.aol.com/story/_a/video-shows-police-kicking-suspects/20080507065509990001
Sharpton was just arrested along with other protesters in NYC rallying against the Bell verdict , we have had numerous (including a couple which went international) incidents involving police brutality here in Chicago, and here is yet another instance of it this time from Philadelphia. For any Canadian or UK (or elsewhere) residents who might read this thread, does this sort of thing happen very often there, or is this yet another mostly American phenomenon? | |
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Posted: 5/7/2008 6:52:23 PM | | You know if it wasn’t for the lights on the cop cars you would think that was a gang beat down. It’s hard to believe those were “peace officers” oh right they don’t call them that anymore, guess we can see why… | |
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Posted: 5/7/2008 7:05:15 PM | | Police are now becoming thoroughly out of control and with the tazers ( cattle prods )they are feeling like shepards herding sheep , actually that's not a bad metaphore is it ? | |
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Posted: 5/7/2008 8:05:11 PM |
Police are now becoming thoroughly out of control and with the tazers ( cattle prods )they are feeling like shepards herding sheep , actually that's not a bad metaphore is it ?
Ever wonder why most housing tracts have only 2 or 3 roads going in or out? Long block walls around the rest of the tract? | |
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Posted: 5/7/2008 9:07:05 PM | Msg 2 and 3, yes it did look more like a gang-related beatdown than anything resembling an arrest of any sort. And yes they are totally out of control......but this is the first time this has happened (recently) in Philly. Here in Chgo we have incidents all the time. NYC is fairly notorious as well....... the hail of bullets cutting down the groom the night before the wedding just recently, a black African immigrant turned into swiss cheese by trigger happy NYPD for reaching for his wallet on a traffic stop, Abner Louima, another black African immigrant, beaten half to death and sodomized with a mop handle in the HQ!! And out of all of those cases only one of the cops doing any significant time (the one who sodomized the guy with the mop handle drew a 30 yr bid -- I personally hope he has to do it in the general population... in a max security state pen....good luck).
I don't know if this Philly thing was at all racial at all yet or not, but we will hear soon I'm sure. Regardless race isn't always even the factor. They're just out of control. Here in Crook (I mean Cook) County, Chicago, they just let another one off the hook free after killing two Mexican-American guys in a drunk driving accident the cop caused while off duty and driving while drunk. They "forgot" to give him the breath analyzer until over 8 hrs had passed and he'd sobered up... yet another cop-related injustice. Sometimes I think they need to fire them all (around here at least) and get new blood in there. | |
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Posted: 5/7/2008 9:07:18 PM | Are we speaking about the Philadelphia incident?
If so, I was disgusted and disappointed........
Police have a very difficult, dangerous job that I respect them for. I understand that they make mistakes like any other human under pressure but the bottom line is, there job is to enforce the law, not break it!
I am so glad the incident was caught on camera.......I found it shocking to see not one, BUT 15 officers assaulting men when they were already down on the ground.
And then the mayor says that after reviewing the tapes, the officers "may" have gotten out of hand. ARE U SERIOUS?! I hope they all lose their jobs , because all of them were a participant. | |
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Posted: 5/7/2008 9:29:45 PM | There was a horrible, horrible incident in Philadelphia last weekend where a police officer was killed -- blasted with an assault rifle by some bank robbers. In the ensuing shoot-out, one of the robbers was killed, and the other is still at large.
Although nothing justifies what these police officers did, I might surmise that there was a lot of rage in them becaue of the tragic death of their fellow officer last weekend.
Just my opinion....I spend a fair amount of time in "Killadelphia." | |
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Posted: 5/7/2008 10:21:32 PM | | There have been many articles of unjustified brutality (and murder) at the hands of law enforcement, yet as long as there is no public outcry for it to stop, as long as people stay divided on these issues, and as long as people think "well they probably somehow deserved it", it'll only escalate. | |
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Posted: 5/7/2008 11:22:11 PM | The police are just people, some good , some bad, most just trying to
survive like everyone else. I think we would all agree that its a good thing they are there. Try to imagine what would happen if they werent.
Any street cop does more real good for society
in a week then most people will do in their entire lives.
Police are under tremendous stress from all sides.
They are outnumbered by the scumbags, underpaid, out gunned, and everything they do is under a microscope.
Not only do they face the very real threat of death or serious injury on a daily basis,
but if they make a mistake they can end up being charged with a crime themselves, or
be sued at the drop of a hat and be financially ruined.
There is also a great deal of frustration in being a police officer.You are dealing with
scumbags, criminals and sociopaths every day, and have to see and deal with their victims.
It is understandable they sometimes overreact. I dont know how they do it and control themselves as well as they do.
I would be up on murder charges in a week. The first pedophile or rapist
I arrested wouldnt make it to the jail. He would be shot while "escaping".
Something to ponder.
Why have we never heard of Sharpton and others of his ilk, demonstrating with equal fervor and outrage over the brutality of the criminals?
Detroit would be a good start. Scores of young black men are being brutally
murdered by other young black men. Wheres the indignation and outrage over that? | |
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Posted: 5/7/2008 11:59:11 PM | | Is 'Civics' still taught in Public Schools ? To prevent these kinds of things from happening over and over again maybe some lessons on ' How to talk to a Police Officer and behave in a respectful manner' You know, 'yes sir, no sir' etc. instead of 'f*** you pig get out of my face before your ass gets kicked' . Maybe that small change would make a difference when interacting with Police. | |
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Posted: 5/8/2008 3:42:52 AM | OP: It does happen here in Canada. But not to the extent which it seems to south of the border. More often than not police brutality here is also less likely to result in any serious injury, think tear gassing peaceful protestors.
I am still aghast over the video of the 210Lb cop in Chicago I think it was beating the hell out of a female bartender that might have been 100Lbs soaking wet. That guy was clearly on the wrong side of the bars. Maybe a bit better evaluation of candidates to police academies is in order down there. | |
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Posted: 5/8/2008 4:52:16 AM | I would be up on murder charges in a week
The first pedophile or rapist
I arrested wouldnt make it to the jail. He would be shot while "escaping
great deal of frustration in being a police officer
Not only do they face the very real threat of death or serious injury on a daily basis,
if they make a mistake they can end up being charged with a crime themselves, or
be sued at the drop of a hat and be financially ruined.
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time enough
ok you are merely enabling criminal behaviour and your justiication and defence of these criminals is just pathetic
we all work in foelds where we have to deal with other people, some good some bad
just because someone has broken the law in one way or another doesnt make them a scumbag or the plethora of other derogatory terms u describe them as
ive gotten traffic tickets in the past and a few parking tickets , both of which i fought in court as it is my right to do so
i dont consider myselfa scumbag because i had business or a brief run in with the cop
how u can justify there behaviour of beating and tasering a man to the ground is just ridiculous
there isnt any excuse whether it be legal or illegal to use that much force to contain one person
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one other cop was shot the week before so maybe they were filled with rage.....
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i dont care if 50 cops were killed the week before, this isnt a field or job where it is them vs the public, they are in a field where they are supposed to protect the public and if they dontlike the job they have chosen then its time they got out of it and tally up to the mcdonalds drive thru window for their future employment
155 tradespeople died on the way to work in one year where i work and you dont see tradespeople going on a rampage to exact revenge on an industry that cares more about barrels per day than the amount of men it puts in the ground.
its high time we stopped excusing the behaviour of these criminals in uniforms and start putting them where they belong. in the same prison where they put other violent offenders
who among us doesnt deal with stress on a daily basis? who among us doesnt put our life at risk every day just going to work? | |
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Posted: 5/8/2008 6:41:40 AM | I'm from the UK and yes, of course that sort of thing happens here. However, it doesn't seem to get reported as much nowadays (maybe because we don't have TV helicopters flying around following them) so the perception maybe that it is not as bad as in the 80's.
I was filming in oxford circus in january this year. An argument broke out between two asian men (they were drunk) and a doorman. After a few minutes 2 police vans and 4 police cars (full of police officers) turned up. After a while the police marched the 2 asian men around the corner (down a side street), we followed with the cameras and a heated argument began between us and the police. After a while the police got into the cars and vans and drove off, leaving the two asian men, they thanked us and were quite visibly shaken by the incident.
I think the difference between your police and our police is that our police have the sense to restrain themselves in front of the cameras.
EDIT: I also want to add a defence for the police - they are seen by a lot of the public as "gestapo". However, I do know police officers and they are decent people who believe the true esence of being a police officer is to help and support the community and probably wouldn't go over the top during an arrest, but unfortunately there are some who go power mad and shouldn't being wearing a janitors uniform let alone a police officers uniform.
and being beaten up by the police is better than being shot by the police! especially if you are unarmed and innocent - which also happens here in the UK. | |
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Posted: 5/8/2008 6:59:25 AM | | Just wondering how many of our future war vets will come back and become police officers after they're done spreading our brand of cheer and goodwill in the middle east. | |
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Posted: 5/8/2008 7:50:18 AM | That kind of Brotherly Love makes one long to be an only child..... | |
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Posted: 5/8/2008 8:33:14 AM | I know some cops that are my age, and they've expressed some concern about the younger ones, calling them things like "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles' and such.
I can see how something like this can happen in big high-stress cities, but I've seen it in small towns too. Couple years ago, some young small town cops here tasered and shackled a kid who was screaming for Jesus on a street corner with a bible in his hand. Kid died.
Don't know all the facts, but on the face of it, I'd think there's better ways of subduing an eighty pound kid. I never did figure out what his crime was. Can't find any statutes prohibiting screaming for Jesus on street corners. | |
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Posted: 5/8/2008 12:22:25 PM | | ^^^ They shouldn't be as free to use those tasers either. That's a potentially lethal weapon if someone has a heart condition for instance. Can throw heart beats into arrythmias, etc. Then they wonder why from time to time they themselves get popped, like that other cop in Philadelphia. If I were a hardcore criminal who had chosen that as a lifestyle basically, I wouldn't just let that happen to myself either, just surrender to it. I'm sure I'd have a gun under my seat , if that were my lifestyle, and , perhaps after suffering from years of mistreatment on the streets and probably in jail as well by those (I couldn't make it to the streets so I became a hack) jail guards , I might decide one dark night to c_ck it while he's still approaching the drivers' side, quick draw and aim above the vest. It's understandable, in a sense, when the career criminal finally does something like that. And , in another sense, the (probably, sadly, GOOD) cop who catches his end in that sort of way can thank all of the bad cops (like the ones on this video, etc) for promoting and adding to a general atmosphere that leads to that.. | |
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Posted: 5/8/2008 1:23:24 PM | For the most part I seriously duobt that anyone stopped by the police will get a beatdown for no reason.
You can't minimize the behavior of someone who is less than cooperative or disrespectful toward a police officer.
People who cop an 'attitude' toward police when pulled over or questioned are guilty of using extreemly poor judgement and should not be surprised if the police freely offer a lesson in respect, the hard way. | |
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Posted: 5/8/2008 1:36:19 PM | Granted most people will never ever get a "beatdown for no reason", true. But then, these are all supposed to be certified professional law enforcement people. If someone "cops an attitude" with them, they are NOT free to just "offer" lessons in "respect, the hard way". Unless the suspect becomes obviously physically combative, they are not to lay hands (besides perhaps to frisk or cuff if necessary) on the person. In criminal justice classes in college (taught by former cops) that was always stressed.
Even if someone you pull over is quite rude (many are , after all), even if they swear, etc etc, the officer is supposed to remain professional.. Offering lessons in "respect, the hard way" might be what happens if some thug pulls someone else over in a car after they've been having a particularly heated road altercation (and even then it would be felonious to assault-and-batter someone), but it is not something that should happen when a professional trained to deal with people (and to expect pretty much the lowest common denominator in people) pulls someone over or has to question them or what-have-you. They're the ones who are held to the higher standard, not the guy being pulled over in the car who happens to give them "attitude". They have to be, or ought to be, above responding in kind to that. | |
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Posted: 5/8/2008 2:24:47 PM | I don't believe an officer is required to wait until physically attacked. I believe an officer makes a judgement call based on whatever behavior is being displayed and police are trained to make that call. Should we expect a higher standard of behavior from professionals ? Of course but we should also remember that these are people who put their lives on the line every day to enforce the laws the rest of us enact at a time when the frequency of violence against police officers has become more common.
Minimizing the actions of those who are disrespectful to law enforcement and seeing those people as victims is a mistake because it promotes violence toward law enforcement which only makes it more difficult for police to enforce the law.
Increased violence against police will undoubtedly lower the threshold of where an officer makes a determination that his or her life is at risk. Somehow everyone should be held to a higher standard. When we travel down a path of not holding accountable those who disrespect the law then we create an environment where the criminal has more rights than the victim. | |
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Posted: 5/8/2008 2:57:17 PM |
When we travel down a path of not holding accountable those who disrespect the law then we create an environment where the criminal has more rights than the victim
By all means hold crooks accountable ......... in a court of LAW, not in a 1920's style "big Irish thug errr I mean cop" style beatdown, delivering street-justice. And on tasers, yes cops should be trained to view them as a "less lethal" tool in their arsenal rather than as a "non-lethal" tool with the cases mounting against the safety of using those indiscriminately. | |
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Posted: 5/8/2008 5:29:48 PM | | Oh I should mention that I am all for an "old fashion smackdown" if it involves revernd al..... That guy is such a racist his involvement in legitimate cases does more harm than good. | |
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Posted: 5/8/2008 6:19:53 PM | I didn't notice any comment about WHY they were stopped by the cops?
Yanno, that small detail that the guys in that car had just shot up a group of people on a street corner.... | |
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Posted: 5/8/2008 7:40:07 PM | yup say that and not alot of sympathy for them if it was their car. But as professionals there was no need to continue beatings after suspects are down and cuffed or otherwise subdued and not resisting.
Cuz ..... yanno cops never pull over the wrong car by mistake. Actually cops pulling over the wrong car saved me a speeding ticket once, glad it wasn't THOSE cops or some innocent guy would have had some rather pressing issues to deal with. And there is that pesky "innocent till proven guilty in a court of law", Cops are granted leeway due to the potential danger they face on the job but this was still overkill. | |
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Posted: 5/8/2008 8:06:43 PM | It's irrelevant on suspicion of what kind of crime they were pulled over for. You don't drag them out of the car and start a 15-man beatdown with another one standing by with a guard dog, as soon as you pull them over. They're professional (supposedly) law enforcement, not a lynch mob in the deep South. They were fired up over one of their fellow cops having been killed during a bank robbery the previous weekend, that's what prompted this I would say. That'll be what it boils down to , basically. Still, even the mayor stated that their actions appear "beyond the pale" and that they seem to have "operated outside the law". Ya' think??? Six of them are already suspended I guess, and all 15 are off the streets pending the criminal investigation now.
What cases like this essentially do, as we taxpayers here in Chicago have learned the hard way as well, is end up costing the city (and therefore us) a lot of extra money. Because these idiots (some of them) around here decide to act like cowboys one night, whether on OR off duty (like this disgrace by the name of Abbate who pummeled a young female bartender), the city gets sued, knows it obviously has to settle, and it's yet another multimillion dollar hit which the city can't really afford. I'm not saying the victims are wrong to get lawyers (I'd have the most shark-like atty's I could find ASAP), but these cops not only break the law with these inane out-of-control adolescent activities they also cost the cities they work for exorbitant sums of money. | |
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