| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/7/2008 9:17:47 PM | I'm not sure if this is under the right thread...since it doesn't involve a romantic relationship..but nonetheless, my heart is completely broken. Yesterday around 4 pm, I got a call from my ex-fiance' that our mutual friend (whom I met through him, my ex) committed suicide by shooting himself in the head. My heart is breaking because I KNEW my friend had thoughts of suicide, about a year ago.....he had actually mentioned it and out of the blue one day, he gave me his irish ring and a silver bracelet he wore.....I tried not to accept it, but I caved and told him "I'll take it, but not for good, I'll keep it in my jewelry box until you're feeling better"...soon after that, I was able to convince him to see my family doctor (he didn't like his own doctor) and he told me that he was put on an antidepressant, and was seeing a therapist.....time had passed and he never mentioned it again.
About 6 months ago, he began dating a new woman (he and his previous girlfriend of 6 yrs had broken up around the time he expressed his suicidal thoughts to me) AND this new girlfriend was CRAZY jealous. One night, she actually got him to call all the women he knew, at 2 o'clock in the morning, just for all of us to tell her we were NOT sleeping with him. Thus began his unhappy relationship with this woman which he told me about many times...he had actually broken up with her (she moved herself in his apartment, without him asking, and being the nice guy he was, he let her) and then he got back with her when he broke his ankle and needed surgery the night of the superbowl..(back in the apartment again she was....this time bringing with her a friend and the friend's son) I spoke to him 3 days before he did this (Saturday) and all during our conversation he was telling me how she was driving him crazy. (he also told me he lent his car to one of her relatives while he couldn't drive and the guy refused to give it back, saying he needed it for work)....
I'm posting because I never lost such a close friend, any friend for that matter, much less to suicide. So far, I've spent the last 30 hours thinking that I missed something and if only I had known he was so depressed again, I could've helped him. I don't know how to deal with this? My ex-fiance' is dealing with it by being angry with him....he's furious that he did it, that he left us with the dilemma of "WTF am I going to tell my kid"?? (Our son knew him like an uncle, loved him, and our friend was there for him since he was born and sick in the NICU) So, he's coping by being angry...ME, I can't find it in my heart to be angry with him....all I feel is sorry. Sorry that I didn't see it coming...sorry because I'm a nurse and I should have done something more? And over and over I keep thinking "What was he thinking that was so final?" And, to add insult to injury, our son sees me crying and wants to know how he died. I told him "he was sick honey" and his response is...."I saw him Sunday Mom, he was fine".....
If anyone has any suggestions, they would be appreciated. I lost my father to cancer 17 yrs ago, but found comfort knowing he wasn't suffering anymore...and believing he's in heaven.....with my friend taking his own life....well my faith is that it's a sin? My older son is distraught, feeling he's not going to heaven because of this too....I'm just really at a loss as to how to come to terms with this tragedy, I can't even sleep.....  | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/7/2008 9:27:40 PM | All I can tell you is, well, don't put the blame on yourself. He was mentally sick, and by the sounds of it, everybody around him, including yourself, did the best they could to help him.
It wasn't anybody's fault, least of all yours. He was sick, and it happened. That's all I can tell you. Don't waste time with woulda/coulda/shoulda because it will only be an exercise in futility. You or the other people around you are not to blame for this.
http://www.griefworksbc.com/Suicide.asp | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/7/2008 9:46:34 PM | I saw your post and I had to reply...
You are not alone at what you are going through.
My dear husband did not commit suicide, but his life was taken away under circumstances that I still believe could have been predicted and therefore avoided
The whole fact of him leaving so unexpectedly turned my life around completely.
Many sleepless nights I thought of the ways what I could have done to prevent this from happening. Now I finally realize and agree with the wellwishers at the time that noone could do anything, because hardly any situation makes us responsible for other's actions.
It has now been 9 years.
When did it become a little less painless? About 4 years after it all happened.
But it can not be put in any timeframes. I still dream about him, I still miss him terribly, and yes, at times I still blame myself for ... something I haven't done.
Let me reassure you, this will help you to start looking at many things differently.
The appreciation for people that are here today, with us, will grow tremendously.
I know that you will never ever walk away from the person who is asking for help - iundirectly or otherwise. We need these lessons of life.
The best thing you can do for yourself and for him is to believe that life always wins.
Keep the best memories and get rid of selfblame.
You are the one who is left to show your strength.
Hang on there, will you? | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/7/2008 9:50:50 PM | Suicide is not a sin. Please do not teach your son such religious claptrap. It is often an act of desperation for those suffering pain or shame. You belittle your friends memory by thinking that way.
Suicide comes from many different sources, some sudden and some long-term. To try and predict is difficult sometimes. Stop beating up on yourself over it. You are grieving his loss and you need to work through that before you can draw any other conclusions. I say this as someone who has spent twenty years doing volunteer suicide prevention work. Even I have missed the signs on occasion. We can influence people, we can heal them sometimes, we can certainly make them smile and laugh. But we cannot always take the gun from their hand.
The time has come for you to sit down with a therapist yourself and try to work through your feelings. Not some religious counselor full of bible stories, but a real therapist that specializes in this kind of loss and trauma. While it may seem like a dark pit in your soul at the moment, in time -- with the right therapist helping you -- that feeling will be replaced with determination and hope for the future. And if the next time it happens again in your circle of friends you will be better prepared to deal with it. Say a pray for your friend, and be happy that he was here to make your life feel a little brighter.
A year from now you light a candle in his memory. All souls deserve to know that someone cared for them. For now you must attend to the living, namely your son. If the two of them were close then the boy may be at risk. Please get him some help too as soon as you can.
Peace | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/7/2008 9:51:21 PM | NOTHING that you could have done (one year ago or now ... as a nurse or not) could change what happened. I lost my husband to suicide six years ago and I have to comfort myself with the fact that he is in a MUCH better place now and finally at peace. It is extremely unfortunate that another person could wield so much power over him but, the fact of the matter, is that he LET HER drive him to this but she wasn't the ONLY factor involved.
With regard to your son, honesty is absolutely the best policy. Don't sugarcoat anything because he will be so 'onto you' and you don't want to risk his thoughts that he might have because you tried to 'lower it to his level'. Do you know what I mean? Kids are so perceptive.
With regard to it being a sin (I struggled with that as well), my best friend said, "I don't believe that there is any such thing as hell. I believe that when you screw up here on earth, you have an opportunity to 'do it over' until you get it right THEN you can go to heaven". Ya know, I choose to believe that. God is all forgiving and if your friend was in that much pain, who can fault him?
It's all good, enigma. PLEASE believe that! | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/7/2008 10:01:38 PM | I am sorry about your loss.
I like that you explained this by saying your ex (I believe) is "coping" with this by being angry. I am not sure if this has been mentioned in the other replies, however there are several stages of grief/loss that might be helpful. If you have the time or energy, look up the Kubler-Ross model.
http://www.stanthony.k12.mn.us/282/moxie/bm~doc/stages-of-loss.pdf
take care. | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/7/2008 10:35:24 PM | OP unless you were living in the chap's head 24/7 you didn't stand a chance of helping him.
He could go to bed contentish, have a nightmare about a past emotional issue and wake up suicidal. We can all do that.
The compulsion to commit suicide is a false reality state that, when we're in it, is emotionally overwhelming and appear 'the only way out'. Could you feel his feelings? Who's feeling your's right now apart from you? We can empathise but we can't do the hard work of feeling them, right?
When a person goes into this state they become isolated and disconnected from the world around them and the last thing they want to do is communicate honestly. I know there's all this angry stuff about suicide from others but I believe if an adult decides they really want to take their own life they have that right - they must have or they wouldn't actually be able to do it.
I doubt that your friend was even able to think about the pain it would cause others and even if he could it would have just hurt him more - it sounds to me he was too much of a 'giver' and could have done with being more 'selfish'. If he had been able to think of himself as well as you do perhaps he could have helped himself out of it. I'm a big believer in 'selfish' these days.
You be 'selfish' mate and stop holding yourself responsible for an act that another adult chose to do. Just feel your feelings and let them go - that's all you can really do. | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/7/2008 10:47:32 PM | Thank you all so much for your help and suggestions. I really appreciate you all for taking the time to read my post....and much of what has been said has already brought me some comfort.
but, to bubblyboy;
I understand, to you, that 'saying suicide is religious craptrap', but to me and my children, the bible is not craptrap. To dismiss that element of this tragedy, for me, would be asking me to dismiss my faith. We're all put on this earth and given the choice to believe what we want to believe. We all make choices, have free will. Whether by a God given right, or our constitutional right...wherever our right to make our own choices comes from...I choose to believe in God and I believe in the bible. That's my choice and how my ex and I are raising the kids...to some, who don't believe in the same things Muslims do, or Buddhists do....we can say "Well, that's not right". But it's not right to say it's crap. I, along with a whole lot of other Christians...Catholics, Protestants, Methodists, etc....have the element of a belief in a higher being and in what is considered sin.
My faith and prayer got me through a life threatening illness. (that and medicine too) I believe with every cell in my body, had I not prayed and believed I would get better, that I would not be here today. Nothing and no one can ever change that belief of mine.
I don't want this to turn into a thread about religion. I mentioned it because it IS part of my grief, along with my personal beliefs, and what I am teaching my children. To NOT address the 'faith' factor, would be essentially telling my children to abandon our belief system. So, in dealing with my friends death, I need to find a way to come to terms with that aspect of it as well. Or at least I hope to.....
Which isn't to say that those who work the suicide help lines, or medication, or support groups or licensed therapists can't help. I believe all of these things can help people.
Alone, or in combination.
I'm very familiar with Elizabeth Kubler-Ross' (sp?) theory on death and dying. We studied it in nursing school. So, I know my ex is coping with his mechanism of anger...and that it's part of the grieving process..I'm sure I'll come to a point where I become angry...
But, right now, I'm just confused and feeling I failed somehow.....?
I know, firsthand that depression is a disease, since I've seen it in my career time and time again...just never experienced this type of loss personally and I wonder.....how to deal with the loss when it wasn't an accident? Is it the same grief that one goes through when you lose someone to illness? or an accident?
Since it's so fresh, and he hasn't even been laid to rest...I know that I'm going to experience more grief.....it's the part that my friend did this to himself and that I couldn't help him that hurts so much, that I wonder if that ever goes away? | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/7/2008 11:32:27 PM | I'm Very Sorry for your loss.
My best friend's son (I was as close as his uncles), committed suicide 2 years ago due to mental illness. My friend nd his wife blamed themselves. Heck I blamed myself even though I was 500 miles away and had not seen him for 6 months. But the reality is no one could have stopped him. As in your case the signs were few and far between, and while we can clearly see everything the day after it is only because of what he did that the signs are obvious.
As regards the issue of suicide and hell, I doubt that god would punish a person for doing something when not in their right mind. PLEASE READ THIS ARTICLE.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/tc/2003/002/15.18.html
If you need someone to email feel free.
Random | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/7/2008 11:37:27 PM | | i'm sorry for your loss.i lost a very good friend 12 years a go to suicide.he shot his self in the head to.it was over a woman and his little girl.it hurt me bad.itstill hurts even after all these years.he was a great guy.i don,t belive thay go to hell.i belive in god to but i don,t belive just because you kill your self you go to hell.i just told my kids the truth.i took tham to the funial and every thing.most people didn,t aggre with me doing that but i did what i thought was the best.i really think he went to heaven.he was a great guy.always helping people.i think god understod he was hurting to bad to go on in life.and yes i did blame my self. | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/7/2008 11:58:46 PM | anenigma, I am truly sorry for your loss... I hope you give yourself time to grieve and let yourself heal...
As you know, sometimes people make choices not because they want to hurt others, but because the pain is to deep for anyone to help them past...
I understand it hurts, because you helped him through a year, but sometimes there just isn't enough help in the world to get past the darkness that is become an unending vacuum... Yes, he took matters into his own hands, because in his mind he believed it was the only control he had... Try and remember it wasn't rational thought, and because of your training you want to heal all, and in loving him seem to want to own the guilt of not doing something differently... For some there is nothing that can be done to heal them...
In another thread someone stated that sometimes learning to understand that for some people it is just as unfair to have them stay in a world that feels like an unending hell to them, so as to not feel the pain of loss yourself...
I don't know how right or wrong that statement is, but I do know it makes me more understanding of someone making a choice that doesn't seem fair to the those that loved them...
The element of religion and what is considered a sin or not may be something we truly have to leave to the Great Divine...I'd like to think the Great Divine has compassion for those that are mentally ill, and feel pushed over the brink of no longer having rational thought...
If a person hasn't experienced that complete unending darkness of depression, it maybe really hard to understand how all consuming it is.
Hun remind yourself, you did the absolute best you could, and just like any chronic illness, sometimes it doesn't mean there is always going to be an ending we'd like it to be...
Take care, | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/8/2008 12:18:54 AM | you asked if it is the same grief stages even if someone dies by accident or by their own hand. Yes. A death (loss) is a death (loss) either way you look at it.
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"But, right now, I'm just confused and feeling I failed somehow.....?"
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-- for example, the above question you have asked is part of the blame stage.
Your friends death is not your fault.
(just to note* the stages are not static but rather more fluid. I know you know all about this however, it is difficult to see when you are in it. Remember you can move from stage one to stage 3 to sage 2 back to stage 1 again (and sometimes be in 3 stages all at the same time)..... you get the idea... ) Just a guide...remember?
... you will all get through this - hopefully you can take comfort in that. | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/8/2008 1:11:08 AM | To dismiss that element of this tragedy, for me, would be asking me to dismiss my faith.
Then view it this way. Six people in the Old Testament committed suicide. Two of them are mentioned in the book of Hebrews as being saints.
Hopefully this will enlighten you beyond that which you should be acknowledging in the first place, that neither you nor I are the judge. You cannot feel sorrow for his eternal resting place without thinking you have the power to determine where it is he should go. "For now we know in part" it says. Our beliefs are too limited to draw complete conclusions. If we knew it all we wouldn't need to have faith.
This is not about you dismissing your faith but rather broadening/changing or dismissing one of your beliefs. | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/8/2008 1:47:20 AM | | I understand where you are coming from.You have to take a day at a time.I also lost a son to suicide.he had gotten aids when he was living in california when he was 29 he would call me tell me mom i am hurting and i did not know what to tell him.he got it was using a dirty needle.Then a month later a police officer came to my house,gave me a telephone number to call.It was the cornoer office there telling me that my son had died of an over the counter drug.He did not want to live any more knowing he was dying.So i know a little about what you are going through.but i did not see my son for 7 years till i had to ury him..But i am really sorry about your lose..please take a day at a time | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/8/2008 2:50:47 AM | | I am so sorry for your loss. I went through this last month with my ex of 12 years. He drank himself to death. In fact I just sent his mom a mothers day card, its tough! I know he is not going through that emotional torture any longer. For some reason we need to go thru this and I belive you will find a new compassion for every living thing. Teach your children to be gratefull for every day, no matter how bad it seems. | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/8/2008 3:09:04 AM | I think your buddy Jesus died and welded the gates of hell shut. Tell your son that .
The key to this is to live life with out fear. That's where LOVE comes in.
I suggest you watch the movie What Dreams May Come........ with Robin Williams,
cut and paste
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjeeMww_vhk
Breast Cancer one of the main reasons ........
http://www.all-natural.com/bras.html
If you think your friend is in hell then we will go and get him out OK.
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/8/2008 3:29:08 AM | | i`m so sorry 4 ur loss.. its not ez when u loose a friend 2 suicide.. if u work in a hosp., try seeking counseling (if they offer it).. if they don`t.. call the suicide hotline & ask if they can help u & ur kids out at this time.. u need 2 talk talk talk about this w/someone who is sympathetic & understanding.. also on the pediatric unit in most hosps. should have pamphlets on suicide.. if not then ask the nurse on that unit if there`s an outreach program 4 kids who have been touched/affected by suicide.. .. | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/8/2008 3:50:05 AM | I am really sorry to hear of your loss.
My best friend died a month ago now, not through suicide but ilness and it was hard to cope with. The key is dont blame yourself and talk it through with the people who knew him. The talking helped me alot and it put my thoughts into perspective. xx | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/8/2008 3:59:10 AM | | I'm very sorry for your loss and all your pain. There truely wasn't anything you could do. They say people who want to truely commit suicide won't talk about it and the ones who wouldn't actually go through with it will pepper conversations with suicidal comments because they're reaching out for help. I'm sure part of that is true but i'm not sure how much of it I believe. I've been in that dark place before and i couldn't quite put my finger on why I was feeling so desperately low. No one, not my parents or best friend, knew how lonely, hopeless and desperate I felt. I had a fabulous life with unconditional love and support from everyone around me, but I hid my pain behind my usual smiling, joking, fun personality. When you're in that dark place you can't seem to see any good or a light at the end of the tunnel nor do you have the energy or hope to look for it. I had one part of my life that I knew for a fact was hurting me and putting me in this place and that was my job. I worked at a jail and it was crippling me. The doc put me on an obscene amt of antidepressants so now I was feeling nothing at all and barely exsisting. One day, i found the courage to pull myself up and I took myself off the meds and fixed what I could in my life asap which for me was quitting my job first and foremost. I was lucky I know. I was able to bring myself to move forward and i haven't been on meds in 5 yrs. I had to learn to cope with life and i'm so proud of myself for all my struggles and all my triumphs because i do it on my own. I'm very blessed in life. You served your dear friend well and by no means did you fail him or yourself. Remember him fondly and love him always. We can't always love ourselves. | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/8/2008 4:00:31 AM | Hi op...
so sorry for the pain your all experiencing...
I agree with...... be honest with your kids.. as gently as possible...in
1. yes he was sick he had a dis-ease called depression.. by the sounds of it (clinical)...it is a huge killer..
2.. he has been suicidal before.... and you helped.... he did not ask you for help this time...... there was nothing you could do.... without knowing..
3.. only he and God know his last words etc... we cannot judge.... only God can...
4...I tell people this... about the creator/god i believe in........
God is love... perfect love.......
and if you tell me the worst thing youve ever done or said... or your hurt... and I can understand... and I can forgive you... and I can still love you... and im very imperfect... human....... then a perfect love God... how much more would he forgive you...understand you...love you....?
if i can forgive your friend... if i can understand the human conditions of depression/pain etc..... then im pretty sure a perfect love(god) could...
i try to respect other peoples religions... but theology and the bible and religions vary in intepretation.. and it saddens me when in the name of religion god gets blamed for stuff.. when really its the religion... interpreting god their way...
religions are different to God /faith.... they vary.... but your bible says... God is LOVE...
We had another suicide last week.... sister in a large italian family..(very small town here).... the family... kept it close to them... the funerals here .....are usually open to all...... b/c we love/know all.
this 1 was private..... I bumped into 2 of her sisters yesterday... just hugged them... let them talk... (theyve had abit of time... to deal with it and the funeral...)
now.. they are going to organise... an event... called a celebration of her life.... were we all will get to remember.. recall. and share parts we all knew or shared with her..
may I suggest that?
regardless... of how ....she died she.... is their sister.... they love her.... she deserves to be respected and remembered for things she did and good qualities she had...
... such as i was there 1 night she saved a guy who crashed his car... she saved a life..... she will not be..... just...... remembered for a painful mistake she made in taking her life.... she sang great too....etc etc..
you can do that with your sons ....so.... his... memory of the good man they knew.... wont be destroyed in shame..... if you celebrate his life.... it helps with grief/pain.. in losing someone you love.. im sure he had great qualities...
people can suicide slowly or fast.... in how we live our lives....
he had a dis-ease.... it killed him...
if he was an alcoholic.. and that disease killed him slowly over years... thats slow suicide.... people are imperfect... they are human they feel pain....... he was suicidal before he met this last woman......
i choose to not judge how he chose to leave the world.... ill leave that to him and his maker..... ill choose to see your friend... as a guy who had pain but also by the sounds of it a nice bloke..
big hugs to you and your loved 1s...
smiles/peace | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/8/2008 4:01:30 AM | | This thread upsets me. I'm sorry for you loss. I don't know why everyone is so miserable when life is great and he had your kid around to hang out with. i don;t understand his phtchologicla condition he needed help. Maybe you should have gotten him help. I don;t think it matters. Don;t think he;s going to a heaven or hell we really don;t know what happens when you die. We could all be like robots that just loose our memory when turned off like how a computer loses the data in its RAM. Then agian who knows about souls and that kidn of stuff. Don;t beleive everything you are told. I am hoping that when I die that;s uit I don't want an afterlife. Jsut dead int he ground a nice long sleep. Reincarnation is not a bad idea but in not feasible. I think our memories and experiences that forms our personalities make us who we are. if you ever met someone who had alzheimers or lost their memories they are a completely differnt person. i don;t understand why everyone si so miserable. The only thing I understand is that people can often be cruel to eachother. And that life is grteat and people need to really start living for the moment and not think too much. Just ask that perosn out. It never pays to be shy. And its imprtant to know what you want. Don;t be hard on yourself in fact treat oyourself and your family to icec ream and let them know you care and cherisht he time you have with them. | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/8/2008 4:26:51 AM | Alienware........I think you should be alittle more sympathetic. I realize at your age that could be asking alot, but this woman is in pain and doesn't need someone slamming her. People need time to grieve.
Did your mother never teach you "if you don't have something nice to say....don't say anything at all"? If not maybe you should go watch the movie Bambi..............Thumper's father taught him that. | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/8/2008 4:32:53 AM | Anenigma
I am so very sorry for your loss. Please try to realize it's not your fault, if you can talk to someone of authority, therapist or whatever with your children to help them also.
Suicide is a terrible thing to deal with, but there are people who care. Sometimes the pain never goes away, but it does become bearable. Keep your faith.........sometimes that is all that gets us through at times.
Listen to the kind hearted people here, and let the others go in one ear and out the other.
If you need someone to talk to, email me please. I know alittle about this first hand. | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/8/2008 4:37:58 AM | Someone can not be blamed for someone else's actions... period. I think the others on here are correct. He was desperate and he was wanting something that people could not provide - to take away his pain for him. He had to move through it - he chose not to... for whatever reason. I agree with your last comment Adam. Try not to be so hard on yourself and let your family know you care and cherish them. Your best friends pain is over.
How old are your children? | |
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| I just lost one of my best friends to suicide....
Posted: 5/8/2008 4:41:45 AM | | Just like he was in a pain that no one could do anything about...now your in a pain that no one else can do anything about. Take all the good that you can from this tragedy, and make his life have meaning. I'm so sorry, and I send you and all those affected every comforting wish I can think of. I hope your friend is at peace. | |
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