| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 6:45:41 AM | would you break a law to uphold a law?
ie you see an assult or worse who you assult the person to protect the victim?
would you tackle a mugger if you saw them comit a crime?would you beat up a pead if you happened to see them try to touch a child?
with the law as it stands you can not phyically touch them but would anyway? | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 7:03:00 AM | Don't you have "Citizen's arrest" in England anymore? That's where it started during medieval times.
In Canada, we are protected in this case.
All citizens are permitted to use "... as much force as is reasonably necessary ..." as stated in section 27 of the Criminal Code of Canada | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 7:15:28 AM |
with the law as it stands you can not phyically touch them but would anyway?
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that the use of reasonable force was permitted. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 7:54:00 AM | I know, but it's difficult to grasp................if they have all this time on their hands, surely they'd try to educate themselves a little??
Maybe they'd find that boring? I know I would.
Well said coll40. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 8:03:05 AM | I think that using reasonable force is different to beating up a peadophile.
As much as you may agree with the sentiment, you are not the judge jury and executioner. If a court of law frequently gets things wrong on who is innocent and guilty, I think that one person definately will get it wrong, do you not think? | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 8:07:32 AM |
Perhaps it was considered to be vigilantism and not reasonable force. Beating up is very different to stopping and restraining.
ok, i'll expand...
it was retaliation for abuse on her own child.... for some reason the law made the victim the paedophile , and not the child... the victim, female, suffered 2 black eyes at the and of the non victims mother...
i ask who is more scared for life?
the victim who's 2 black eyes have healed, or the child, the same child who was abused and has now also lost a mother for up to 6 months...
Would i do the same, hell yeah, but i would have been more discreet and done a better job then 2 black eyes! | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 8:21:04 AM |
it was retaliation for abuse on her own child
Anyone who thinks that retaliation or vengeance is justification for violence deserves every punishment a civilised society can throw at them. I have little sympathy. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 8:32:51 AM | Are you on a wind up???
if not obviously you have little knowledge on the subject of how much abuse can effect a life ..... I may be making an assumption, maybe im wrong.
Paedophiles are not ill, they have a clear knowledge what they are doing is wrong and when the judicial system refuse to rely on the words of a 6 year old boy to grant a conviction, how would a mother feel? Point out a mother or father that wouldn't retaliate.... if it is a physical violence retaliation you are questioning, how would you retaliate?
In a civilised society people like this do not exist, neither to granny beaters, bully's, muggers arsonists and so on. In the society we all live in, they do. How many are convicted and given a fitting punishment? when the system lets people who cause harm on another go free to inflict pain on another human being then isnt it human instinct to reprimand, to enforce a measure where the perpetrator knows that there will be consequences for their actions?
Sadly i do not live in the same utopia you do.
edit.. : missed this bit
"As much as you may agree with the sentiment, you are not the judge jury and executioner. If a court of law frequently gets things wrong on who is innocent and guilty, I think that one person definately will get it wrong, do you not think?"
sadly i am not judge jury or executioner.... the problem is the law has no lee way in some cases, the charge was made a plea was given and they were confined to that. A point had to made, sadly it means a child that has endured sexual abuse now has to live without a mother.
I never once did i say i agreed with it, what i did say is that i know i would do the same. Heart rules the head sometimes.... Anyone inflicting pain like this on my children, if they didn't feel the full force of the law would feel it from me. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 8:35:10 AM |
Anyone who thinks that retaliation or vengeance is justification for violence deserves every punishment a civilised society can throw at them. I have little sympathy.
I hate to say it but i so agree with the above statement.And that is despite me flattening my own father when he was threatening to hit me for some percieved slight.
We have the law of reasonable force in this country.But that does NOT mean that you can hit,or slander, because you dont like them or think/suspect that they dissed you/are a a paedophile/are gay or lesbian/is a thief or drives a white van. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 8:39:43 AM | You feel you've suffered injustice so you batter a suspected paedophile.
A teenager scratches your car. So you pop out and kick his head in.
Someone spills your pint in the pub so you head butt them and knock their teeth out.
Where do you draw the line? Who decides what is and what isn't acceptable?
Either you believe that violence is the way that civilised people resolve their problems or you don't. Personally I don't. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 8:49:36 AM |
Perhaps it was considered to be vigilantism and not reasonable force. Beating up is very different to stopping and restraining.
If I saw some huge bloke attacking someone I wouldn't stop hitting him till I was sure he wouldn't get up and have a go back, I dont have cuffs, backup and a truncheon. Judges and in general overpaid civil servants (Harriet Harmon in her flak jacket and armed guard going to get a kebab) don't live in the real world and wouldn't begin to understand the implications of a situation like that.
Anyone who thinks that retaliation or vengeance is justification for violence deserves every punishment a civilised society can throw at them. I have little sympathy.
Obviously someone who's lucky enough not to be let down by our fine legal system, remember no-one was at fault for the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes. Odd that.
So in answer to the OP yes... | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 8:52:53 AM |
You feel you've suffered injustice so you batter a suspected paedophile.
no, person admitted abusing child... then retracted it when police where brought in.
A teenager scratches your car. So you pop out and kick his head in.
its a piece of metal, i dont give a shit about my car... i dont give a crap about much materialistically, and of the few people on here i know all would back me up on that, there are more important things in life.
Someone spills your pint in the pub so you head butt them and knock their teeth out. no i ask them to replace it please and flutter my eye lids......
what you quoted there in the last 2 lines are didly squat... they are not important things in life. No serious harm was done...
Childhood innocence is just that. Innocence. childhood should be free from all preventable pain, free from all the bad things in the world and as protected as possible. Yes kids have squabbles but thats kids, thats different. THIS IS AN ADULT INFLICTING ABUSE ON A CHILD.
Either you believe that violence is the way that civilised people resolve their problems or you don't. Personally I don't.
I believe in crime and appropriate punishment. No person should get away with harming another. I never said that, do i agree with what the mother done, yes, only becasue i know i would have done the same.
would she have done it if the police arrested the paedophile and brought charges thus gaining a conviction... no she wouldn't as justice would of been done. the person could not hurt another and her son would be able to know that the person who hurt him was punished. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 8:56:15 AM | Fight fire with fire and watch it take hold and spread out of control at your peril...
OT no i would not tackle a mugger or assault somebody for a multitude of reasons being..
It would surely make me no better than them.
I have young children to consider,what kind of lesson would i be teaching them?.
I dont fancy being lumbered with a criminal record when i could have dealt with it by calling the law.
I have no desire to end up losing my life .simple. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 8:58:25 AM |
its a piece of metal, i dont give a shit about my car... i dont give a crap about much materialistically, and of the few people on here i know all would back me up on that, there are more important things in life.
His point is, YOU think it's acceptable to beat up a peadophile. Someone else might well think they are justified beating someone up for damaging their car.
You might crash into me one day through a lapse in concentration, I may feel very angry about this and just deck you. What's the difference? if one is ok, surely the other is? if not, where are you going to draw the line? what right do YOU have to draw the line where you want it?
That's WHY we have law. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 8:58:54 AM | I see you conveniently failed to quote the most important part of my post which was the basis of the point I was actually making.
Where do you draw the line? Who decides what is and what isn't acceptable?
I certainly wouldn't want it to be someone who isn't even capable or grasping a simple point made by a person with whom they happen to disagree. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 9:02:26 AM | You might crash into me one day through a lapse in concentration, I may feel very angry about this and just deck you. What's the difference? if one is ok, surely the other is? if not, where are you going to draw the line? what right do YOU have to draw the line where you want it?
That's WHY we have law.
Prey tell then....
What happens, what should happen to the person who has just got away with what i consider to be a more horrendous crime then stealing the crown jewels??? then a fender bender, then shop lifting, then breaking a window, other then murder there are few crimes that can top sexual abuse.....
FFS, i didnt say that it was right, i said i can understand and agree with what she did.
Edit :
Native i did, 2nd to last paragraph,
I believe in crime and appropriate punishment.
VVV cargy i'm not talking mob mentality, put yourself in the mothers shoes.... im not saying its right, i am saying i would have done the same... | |
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cargy
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Joined: 10/13/2006
Msg: 19 | |
| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 9:09:11 AM | We already have the mob instinct where people assume that because it's rumoured that someone's a paedophile, they are justified in terrorising them!
It's not uncommon to hear of some innocent eccentric hanging themselves because such harassment became unbearable.
God forbid the mob mentality ever becoming officially sanctioned! | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 9:19:29 AM | That whole peadiatrician story comes to mind here... We have a judicial system for a reason... If it was within my powers to stop a crime at the time, then sure I probably would. But most of the time its a very grey area, no crimes are ever as clear cut as they may appear...
Wasnt there a paediatrician
Great minds eh?! :p | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 9:20:07 AM | Wasnt there a paediatrician who had her house burnt down because the folk in her south wales neighbourhood couldnt tell the difference between a PAEDIATRICIAN and a PAEDOPHILE? I think it was about the time of the Sarah X tragedy.
God help us all when the mob has control. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 9:25:28 AM |
I believe in crime and appropriate punishment.
As long as you get to decide what's appropriate apparently. I'd rather stick with our judicial system despite it's flaws. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 9:46:18 AM |
As long as you get to decide what's appropriate apparently. I'd rather stick with our judicial system despite it's flaws.
your missing what i have said.
can someone not condone it but agree with it?? Jeeze... freedom of thought and all that??
from other posts in the thread, the general consensus is people who retaliate are deemed unintelligent. they obviously cant distinguish right from wrong. They are random people making random attacks. (what ever, try a walk in another persons shoes)
Can any of you parents who have said that hand on heart wouldn't harm someone who harmed you children in such a way and the police didnt do anything about it?? if you can then fair pay, your a better person then i. Having been harmed as a child myself, knowing the future repercussions it brings, knowing damn well it would be worse if it was swept under the table, and i know damn well its far worse if no-one is ever brought to justice, whether that is through the judicial system or through retaliation. No-one has the right to ruin another life and get off scot free.
I would want my child to know that the person who harmed them, was punished for it. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 9:58:10 AM | | As a responsible parent i would rather concentrate my efforts on ensuring that( if god forbid my child was ever intefered with) they were given all the suport and counselling they needed to start the recovery proccess.I would not be able to support my child in that way if i was banged up for a revenge attack,i would in effect just be further letting my child down. | |
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| would you break the law to uphold the law?
Posted: 5/11/2008 10:01:41 AM |
I would want my child to know that the person who harmed them, was punished for it.
Perhaps we should think well on this:
In the aftermath of the [Eniskillen] bombing a tone of forgiveness was set by Gordon Wilson whose daughter, Marie, was killed and who was himself injured in the attack.
"I bear no ill will. Dirty sort of talk is not going to bring her back to life. She was a great wee lassie," Mr Wilson said.
No matter how much the desire to hurt and wreak revenge, the mark of civilisation is to forgive. | |
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