| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/11/2008 8:24:06 AM | Should Ralph Nader run for president this year ???
I personally say yes. I have never subscribed to the notion that a person is a "spoiler" for actively participating in our political process. I would criticise those who **** and complain, but never take any action.
In my opinion Nader should run and should be allowed to participate in all the national debates this fall. What do you all think ???? | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/11/2008 8:29:55 AM | | ...well he IS running and yes, i think he should be allowed in the debates. ironically access to the political arena is one thing he's long been fighting for, not just for himself either. i think he brings great thought to the table and has a pretty spotless background to boot...having him at the debates can only help keep the discussion on real and relevant matters... | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/12/2008 4:49:51 PM | | He can run, and he should be allowed in the debates. I would really like to vote for him again, but not this time. The condition that the country is in now works to convince me to choose the most viable candidate that will change this state of affairs. Sadly for many of us Ralph is not the most likely candidate to defeat the right win. We would end up favoring McCain by voting for Ralph. | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/13/2008 2:24:09 AM | | No no no no no. We can't have intelligence and common sense and a lifetime of experience devoted solely to protecting the interests and wellbeing of the people. Who needs that [/sarcasm] | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/13/2008 6:14:30 AM | Blues,
You need it, I need it, the whole country needs it.
Honestly, if the choices were Bill Clinton, Barak Obama, and Ralph Nader I would most surely vote for Ralph Nader. This time I can't afford to give any more chances to the right-wing. Heck, I would even vote for Hillary if I had to. | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/14/2008 8:26:05 PM | | I`m glad Nader is running and i hope he is allowed to debate. Nader would make the debates much more interesting. | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/14/2008 8:44:13 PM | As others have said Nader is running but I don't think he has access to ballots in all 50 states and the democrats and republicans are trying to block access to him and any other third party candidate. It is deplorable they do that but that is what greed for power does.
I like a lot of how Nader thinks on a lot of the issues but he is far from the leader our country needs at this time. 8 years of the leadership vacuum we have experienced with Bush has done a lot of damage and we need someone much stronger in the leadership department than Nader unfortunately.
I have to see how the tickets fill out and see what other candidates get access in enough states to be viable (haha like the major parties will let that happen) and see what is available to us then. As of right now I have no dog in the hunt. | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/14/2008 9:27:48 PM | Yeah, I'd like to see Nader included in any debates as well... and let the Libertarian and other off-brand candidates in too.
I'd really like to see that but doubt it's going to be allowed by whoever is in charge of such things. | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/14/2008 9:54:01 PM | As others have said Nader is running but I don't think he has access to ballots in all 50 states and the democrats and republicans are trying to block access to him and any other third party candidate.
I saw an interview with Nader during the last election and he pointed out that in some states Republicans actually contributed to his campaign to get onto the ballot. It's not very hard to see why they'd do that. They view him as taking away votes from Democrats. No doubt, there are other political parties and candidates that the Republicans don't want to have ballot access. | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/15/2008 10:55:55 AM | | I would guess that the Libertarians would be the ones to compete for the Republican votes... and since former rep Bob Barr just launched a Libertarian presidential bid on Monday... that might be of some tiny concern to the McCain folks... maybe. | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/15/2008 11:01:23 AM | I agree simlasa. I hope he takes a bunch of votes. that way, either the republicans will wake up, or lots of them will jump ship to the libertarian party. I don't think the republican party stands a chance at survival though. too religious and too anti drug, gay, this, that. I also think that barr stands to get a couple of obama votes too. they will never let nader or barr into the debates. they will make the mainstream candidates look like idiots! | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:32:12 PM | | I think he's an idiot, and wrong on virtually everything except foreign policy. | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/15/2008 12:53:58 PM | they're politicians, they're all idiots. but, some are more book smart than others. I just think that it would be entertaining. like the good old bush, clinton, and perot debates! now that was fun!
hahaha exodus. it was a trip. remember all the SNL parodies? phil hartman as admiral stockdale? priceless! | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/15/2008 1:02:49 PM | Perot; "now here's what we're gonna do, , , We're gonna herd all dem congressmen into a room and tag 'em, so we can track their moovement. . . We'll see who's bought 'n' sold, he he"
That was definitely fun! | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/15/2008 1:07:21 PM | | Msg10, true. You're not going to have a whole hell of a lot of universal health care-supporting Obama-backing Dems suddenly deciding to cast a vote for a Libertarian. On the other hand, some potential (even just"default") GOP voters might be swayed more towards the Libertarian candidate Barr. Many of them aren't all that crazy about McCain anyway. Sort of similar to what has happened in the past with Nader and some potential Dem voters. | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/15/2008 4:56:27 PM |
Blues,
You need it, I need it, the whole country needs it.
Uh, I was being facetious. | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/15/2008 4:57:33 PM | | I should have added the fact that since Nader only got about 5% of the vote, it's pretty obvious to me that America doesn't really want what it says it wants. It's too damned distracted with banal BS. | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/15/2008 6:02:53 PM | | I am an Independent and i kind of lean toward the conservative side. But, if Ralph nader would run, i would vote for him. I hate Bush, I hate McCain, I hate Obama and i hate any name that is Clinton. So Nadar would be a great change | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/15/2008 6:48:39 PM | I should have added the fact that since Nader only got about 5% of the vote
but Ron Paul just got 20% with little media attention ( basically none ) so what does that tell you ? | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/15/2008 8:55:03 PM |
I should have added the fact that since Nader only got about 5% of the vote, it's pretty obvious to me that America doesn't really want what it says it wants. It's too damned distracted with banal BS.
How true !
A few exerpts from Mein Kampf:
"The receptivity of the great masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in sloans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan....The purpose of propaganda is not to provide interesting distraction for blase young gentlemen, but to convince, and what I mean is to convince the masses. But the masses are slow moving, and they always require a certain time before they are ready even to notice a thing, and only after the simplest ideas are repeated thousands of times will the masses finally remember them."
"When there is a change, it must not alter the content of what the propaganda is driving at, but in the end must always say the same thing. For instance, a slogan must be presented from different angles, but theend of all remarks must always and immutably be the slogan itself. Only in this way can the propaganda have a unified and complete effect."
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/16/2008 3:17:11 AM | Thank you, Oneblend.
I wonder if those people engaging in that practice here will respond. | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/16/2008 10:01:44 AM |
I wonder if those people engaging in that practice here will respond.
'those people'... as if we don't all do that kind of crap.
It's one of the main tenents of tribalism... to find some excuse to push through your prejudice... 'They're lazy'... 'They're stupid'... and keep shouting it from the rooftops ad nauseum without any thought to backing it up with facts or even a convincing argument.
Hitler wasn't some genius... he was an angry little troll of a man who was in the wrong place at the wrong time... and he used the same tactics of hate and intolerance that we all resort to when we fall back into our animal habits of fear.
Anytime any of us says 'them' or 'those people' in these forums it's automatic cause for doubt about the merits of the argument being presented. | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/16/2008 12:41:20 PM | Sim, you said
"Anytime any of us says 'them' or 'those people' in these forums it's automatic cause for doubt about the merits of the argument being presented."
I will agree with you on that point, at least partially. It is not totally surprising to me that you would react to what I said because I have sensed the honesty of your opinions, and the calm manner in which you express them. I wished that I could control my mean streak better than I normally do.
However, these forums are intended for the expression of political opinions, which will normally result in contentious discussions, and the use of pronouns or adjectives referring to others with whom you agree or disagree is part of the language necessary to communicate your agreement or disagreement. I feel that as long as we explain our opinions and point out clearly to what you disagree with, the separation that is established should not be confused with tribalistic behavior, or expression of hate and intolerance. I think that we are far away from those times in the past when it was sufficient for someone to yell "it is one of them," to get the mob busy wielding their clubs, knives, or guns, and bring out the rope so that order could be restored.
The people I was referring to are the ones that engage in the practice described by the quote posted by Oneblend. You probably remember this better than me, but I think it was one of Hitler's associates who said "Lie, lie, lie... something will stick."
I think that my original sentence containing "those people engaging in that practice" taken in the context of the previous post is quite clear. | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/16/2008 3:03:53 PM |
but Ron Paul just got 20% with little media attention ( basically none ) so what does that tell you ?
Same thing. | |
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| Ralph Nader
Posted: 5/16/2008 9:49:55 PM | Tranquilo,
Just ignore me, I'm sick today... and all sorts of cranky. | |
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