|
|
|
|
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/14/2008 6:34:54 PM | I respect all beliefs.. But I think people have to learn to draw the line somewhere. I mean, religious institutions set themselves up in the place of God. They tell people they are going to hell if they wear make up or certain clothes. They tell people who and who they cannot be friends with, date or marry.. They get people into fear, making folks think they will burn in eternal fire if they don't practice/believe some tradition or dogma. I have heard well meaning religious people say that we give place to the devil and demons if we listen to rock, rap or pop music.. And that spirits of lust and fear can come into us through watching movies!!!! That's not to mention the wars and murders that have taken place.. and still do take place in the name of religion and God. There is so much fear based doctrine out there.. is it any wonder that non-religious people shun religion.. People need to stop checking their brains at the door when they go to religious services. Don't let any man or institution rule your life with an iron rod.. This is just wrong and it is ruining lives.. Families are broken up.. people are having nervous breakdowns and taking their own lives. All from the seeds of fear and confusion sown by these religious tyrants.. As one diet and exercise guru used to say.. it's time to STOP THE INSANITY!!!!  Did not Jesus even say, "by their fruits you will know them." What fruit has religion bore.. It's time to get real and open our eyes.. Alot of religion out there is dangerous and toxic to the human mind..... and soul.. | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/14/2008 7:13:41 PM | | Yeh, it's gotten really bad out here in American Land, really insane . . . . . thank the little gods that Europe is still in tact. | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/14/2008 8:25:18 PM | Someone is clearly generalizing here big-time.
I respect all beliefs..
Ahem..... if you did, then you wouldn't go on to say that "religious institutions set themselves up in the place of God" in the very next sentence. Every single one? Or, just the ones you don't like? Which is it? Because my religious institution hasn't done so.
They tell people they are going to hell if they wear make up or certain clothes. They tell people who and who they cannot be friends with, date or marry.. They get people into fear, making folks think they will burn in eternal fire if they don't practice/believe some tradition or dogma.
Who's "they"? I'm a very traditionalist Roman Catholic who attends probably the most conservative parish church in the city, complete with the Latin Mass, medieval vestments, women wearing veils, Gregorian chant and the clergy facing away from the people....... and, surprise of surprises, your quote above is really a bunch of poppycock that bears little or no truth to reality, at least in this particular, quite "religious" institution.
I have heard well meaning religious people say that we give place to the devil and demons if we listen to rock, rap or pop music.. And that spirits of lust and fear can come into us through watching movies!!!!
So? If you're in America, you know this is a free country and people are going to believe all sorts of things, as is their prerogative. But if you were to think a little more considerately, you might come to understand their perspective when you consider the lyrics of certain rock bands which are literally Satanic, the lyrics of certain rappers which are clearly misogynistic or debasing to women as sex objects, etc. Furthermore, there are some people who believe that certain types of rock or rap music is intrinsically disordered by the fact of their composition. As for me, I like to listen to some metal, but I also hang around a lot of "classical music snobs" (I'm arguably one myself) because I sing in a choir that specializes in Gregorian chant and Renaissance polyphony. So, of course there'll be some people who think that way. I prefer to understand them rather than bash them.
As for movies.... again, with some more considerate thinking, you might think about how some movies can genuinely terrify the people you're talking about or incite them to lust by watching sex scenes. My mom is a bit of a fundamentalist Seventh-day Adventist and believes this, so I don't watch my movies rated higher than PG in the living room. Again, consideration is better than just bashing people.
And again, your generalization of religious institutions and people fails. I can take my priest or my deacon to a movie once in a while, like "Iron Man" recently.
People need to stop checking their brains at the door when they go to religious services.
Plenty of people in the world never do. The homilies ("sermons") at my parish church are always quite intellectual in nature and challenge the mind when the pastor preaches. It also takes a keen mind to understand and follow along the Latin prayers of the Mass and discern what's happening at the altar, especially since the clergy are not facing the people.
What fruit has religion bore..
Hmm..... well, off the top of my head, I can think of my parish church's having financially supported our sister churches in Africa and Southeast Asia. Or, the affiliated Society of St. Vincent de Paul which feeds hundred and even thousands of the poor and homeless downtown for free on a regular basis, no strings attached. Or, the sponsored Knights of Columbus council whose recent projects have included standing on street intersections to collect funds for deaf and/or mute children, a dinner to donate proceedings to a premature children wing at one of the local hospitals, etc. I can think of the upcoming workshop at the local cathedral by Catholic Relief Services, an organization which has helped poor farmers in third world countries collectivize their resources, provide insurance against bad harvests, purchased new technologies to make their work easier, and stand up against unfair business practices. Those are examples of one local religious community's work to love neighbor. But more importantly, there has been much work done to love God. The building of a new church for the proper worship of God. The commissioning of new fine artwork which is good not only for religion but also for the continuation of a long-forgotten artistic culture. The offering of daily Masses for people's various intentions and the souls of the faithful departed. Reverent high Masses on Sundays which nourish the people and lift their minds to God. The distribution of the Body and Blood of Christ in holy Communion. And so on, and so forth.
And here, I've only spoken on local events and experiences. Much can be said about "religion's" role in the advancement of fine art, architecture, music, the printing press, the clock, the calendar, farming technology, statecraft, and yes, even natural science. So, next time, I would suggest something fairer than your bleak assessment and condemnation of "religious institutions". | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/15/2008 4:00:19 AM | I don't respect all beliefs, some people believe the only way to defeat evil would be to kill those who they see as evil. I also don't have respect for beliefs that infringe on our free will, although some belief systems say you are free to choose to believe or not, they set the stage that undermines that natural ability to reason.
Religion like any other belief can be interpreted by the subjectivity by human kind, and depending on where he or she is in his or her self actualization will determine how that belief is expressed. A religious person in the lower levels of pathology is capable of horrific acts with the added authority of the head of their belief system. Thankfully this is rare but the spectrum between pathology and complete integration of self is huge and if religion is not interested in the process of human integration it fosters a breading ground for mental health issues, *wonders why religion is so popular....*
Religions can say that people act on their own and they are free but the reality is far from this. The pressure to fit in and appear religious is extremely strong. When people question they are mostly told that they are lacking in faith or sincerity. People are labelled as backsliders and will often keep their inquires to themselves to fit in. I don't see this as the fault of the religious followers but the leaders. If i were to invent a religion, i'd make sure there is no way to misinterpret the message and if some of the members were suffering wouldn't you want to make sure they were healthy mentally and emotionally? Even from a self preservation point of view i'd not want any of my members on a roof top shooting people or something.
I find it strange that in a world were we are so into holding people accountable for their actions that we are not holding our institutions and parents responsible and accountable for the imprinting that drives people to do the things they do. Indoctrination (child abuse in my opinion) from parents that are mentally ill can lead that child to crimes against humanity yet we never hear of how the parent was held partly accountable or the church that was responsible for their spiritual education that was filtered through his delusional mind.
I don't think religion is fully responsible and accountable but it is clear that churches are not able to deal with people holistically because of the lack of foundation in reality, and meeting people where they are instead of having them meet religion where it pretends to be. | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/15/2008 6:41:01 AM |
They tell people they are going to hell if they wear make up or certain clothes. They tell people who and who they cannot be friends with, date or marry.. They get people into fear, making folks think they will burn in eternal fire if they don't practice/believe some tradition or dogma.
Who's "they"? I'm a very traditionalist Roman Catholic who attends probably the most conservative parish church in the city, complete with the Latin Mass, medieval vestments, women wearing veils, Gregorian chant and the clergy facing away from the people....... and, surprise of surprises, your quote above is really a bunch of poppycock that bears little or no truth to reality, at least in this particular, quite "religious" institution.
So you're telling us that your RC church has no problem with divorce & marrying muslims & jews etc? | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/15/2008 7:27:22 AM | I don't respect all beliefs, some people believe the only way to defeat evil would be to kill those who they see as evil. I also don't have respect for beliefs that infringe on our free will, although some belief systems say you are free to choose to believe or not, they set the stage that undermines that natural ability to reason.
You said a mouthful in your post crazy.. And it happens to be all true. When I say I respect all beliefs, I meant all.. I have known good catholics, muslims, jews ect.. It is the extemeists in all these faiths that I speak of as being toxic.
And as far as religions setting themselves up in the place of God.. Our Roman Catholic friend disagrees.. But in fact the catechism does teach that the church is kind of like Noah's ark.. And those outside of her may not make it to heavn in the end. It teaches in not so many words, that non-catholics "may" get to heaven.. but that is for God to decide in the end.. For these others religions, including other christians do not take part in all the sacrememnts of the "true" church. The Roman catholic church boasts of being the one true church.. The Pope is like Christ on earth and the priests have certain powers to transform bread and wine into Christs body and blood.. Sins are not really forgivin unless you go to the confessional... This is just a few things that appear to set the church up as God.. or his mouth piece on earth and give them exclusive ownership on salvation... So save the catholic speeches.. because I was catholic and studied it very deeply.. I read the catechism..old and new versions.. read some of the saints and many other catholic books. I used to go to the local catholic bookstore at least once a week and buy a new book.. And the fact is.. The catholic church has always believed, "no salvation outside of the church." That only recently changed with the modern times.. But it changed in a watered down way.. The premise still is.. outside the church? .. It's not looking too good for you.. And even if you are a catholic.. there's no guarantee of heaven... So really in the end.. You bow down to the churches rules.. and who knows where you'll really end up anyway????? What a mish mash of double talk...lol | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/15/2008 8:03:57 AM | So, help me out here. Is this an anti-Catholic, an anti-Christian, an anti-religion, or an anti-"everything I say I respect but don't" rant? I'm just trying to understand so I can form an intelligent response. Thanks.  | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/15/2008 8:10:41 AM | On a more positive but vague note than the OP's rant. I do think the underlying message of "be nice" that most religions promote in some of their teachings is worthwhile.
Jacobus, was Iron Man any good? I'm thinking of taking my young niece to see it. | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/15/2008 10:43:16 AM | TheLimey:
So you're telling us that your RC church has no problem with divorce & marrying muslims & jews etc?
It's not possible to divorce an ecclesiastical marriage. Separation is possible, but it would be impossible to marry someone else unless the other spouse died or an annulment was declared. The way I see it, though, the Catholic Church isn't really telling me to do anything. I agreed to play by the Church's rules when I signed up, and if I married, I was the one making the vows to remain married "til death do us part". So, by attempting to divorce, I'd simply be breaking my own word.
The Catholic Church allows mixed-religion marriages, although not particularly encouraged. I'm dating a Pagan and I feel fine. I know my priest would have us married if I asked him, although he'll probably give me a few fair warnings about the potential problems in the future.
Mind Freak:
And as far as religions setting themselves up in the place of God.. Our Roman Catholic friend disagrees.. But in fact the catechism does teach that the church is kind of like Noah's ark.. And those outside of her may not make it to heavn in the end. It teaches in not so many words, that non-catholics "may" get to heaven.. but that is for God to decide in the end..
And so, you said it yourself. It's for God to decide in the end, thus the Catholic Church does not stand "in place of God". However, I do believe that God extends some divine charisms to His clergy in the form of sacraments. He gives others to the entire Church in general, i.e. the entire body of believers.
Clarence:
Jacobus, was Iron Man any good? I'm thinking of taking my young niece to see it.
YES. One of the best comic-to-movie adaptations ever made, second only to "Batman Begins" IMO. Only problem is that the villains suck. | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/15/2008 10:44:37 AM | I will say it one more time...LOL.. This post is about the extremists out there who make religion a dark and fearful thing.. Example ----> The Muslim who is taught to respect others, pray and live a peaceful life = GOOD.. The muslim taught to crash a plane into a building and kill people for God = EVIL, TOXIC, DARK REIGIOUS THINKING..
The christian who is kind, loving and talks about his faith in a positive light = GOOD.. The christian who preaches all hellfire and brimstone, pumps people full of fear and say your going to hell because your not part of his group = BAD, TOXIC!!!!
This goes for any religion that preaches, teaches or propogates violence, fear, looking down on others of a different faith or belief system.. It also goes for any instituation that plays on people's fears or those of weaker minds who believe that an organization is God's mouth piece and right hand man... Some cultic groups have even talked their followers into suicide.. THIS IS BAAADDDD!!!!! LOL ...
And I might add.. I know alot of good catholics. But knew some very negative and toxic ones too. One friend of mine joined the catholic church and began harassing me.. he would call me at all hours and come to my house and rant and rave that I risked eternal hellfire because of my movie and book collection. he said I should only read catholic books and only listen to the liturgical music of the church. he said I should burn all my DVDs, including the comic to movie ones.. he said it was all of the devil!!!!!... He ranted and raved that there was no salvation for anyone outside of the catholic church and all other religions, even christian ones.. were from satan. His church literally taught him that!!!! He went on how vatican 2 was from the devil and on and on and on... Now that was a toxic church and a toxic religion.. But I know full well that this kind of thinking does not apply to all catholics..
Needless to say.. I'm not friends with this guy anymore. The friendship had turned into a horror show..
Do you all get the picture now????   | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/15/2008 11:04:17 AM | It's a toxic world we live in.
Frankly, I find very little in this world that isn't twisted away from it's original design.
Oh and God didn't CREATE the institution of religion...Man did.
I think that speaks to where it all went wrong right there. | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/15/2008 7:09:30 PM | ---Yeh, it's gotten really bad out here in American Land, really insane . . . . . thank the little gods that Europe is still in tact---
Your kidding right? Have you been to London lately?
You cant walk down the street without seeing some Muslim cretin
spouting about the evils of Western women and how Islam will rule the world.
If I remenber , Paris was in chaos just a short while ago as they rampaged through the
streets. | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/15/2008 7:58:22 PM | makes me want to get off this ball of dirt and leave all religion behind. Maybe next time around we'd get it right.  | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/15/2008 8:54:41 PM |
Your kidding right? Have you been to London lately?
You cant walk down the street without seeing some Muslim cretin
spouting about the evils of Western women and how Islam will rule the world.
If I remenber , Paris was in chaos just a short while ago as they rampaged through the
streets.
Recent reports suggest Christianity is declining rapidly in the UK and Muslims will outnumber them in the very near future. | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/15/2008 9:43:10 PM | That's sad - the Muslems around here have cell phones permanently glued to their ears, especially the men
| |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/16/2008 5:01:28 AM |
He went on how vatican 2 was from the devil and on and on and on...
Well then he's not really a catholic then, is he? | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/16/2008 5:22:09 AM | I think a lot of your arguments about the evils of religion have been done elsewhere, but your target is too wide and your evidence too anecdotal. It is not good enough to say religion is wrong because you heard someone say x or another person say y. You need some more solid evidence. Testimonies can be useful if they can be verified and also corroborated with other evidence, but if I were trying to judge the objective harm of religion, I would try to find another, more solid basis for the damage it caused. One statistic might be the number of terrorist attacks done by professed Islamic extremists for example.
I think the term 'harm' itself is a big vague though, if we are speaking of the global cultural effect of one religion, or religion as a whole. World religions are very complex entities embracing many different cultures and peoples. A Christian in Africa may behave and worship very differently to one in the U.S., and the same can apply to other religions as well. I think it is more accurate to say that religions reflect the ambivalence and complexity of human beings and human cultures themselves, including replicating our flaws and our virtues. | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/16/2008 6:12:50 AM | I'm not religious, but I heard Jesus did not particularly like the hypocrisy of religion.
It's sad he was eventually integrated into it.
People who follow Jesus or at least the compassion of the lessons Jesus teached, tend to be less 'toxic', and more capable of stabilizing humanity. We could probably benefit from centering on that aspect of religions. The compassion part.
Things can get very complicated and it can be in our best interest to accept we do not know all the variables involved that led someone into doing something we didn't particularly like. Maybe we should deconstruct the actions in order to find the reasonings, before we pass judgement on each other. And where there are time constraints, simply accept we can't know right then and there and offer to relate to each other on some level before conflict escalates.
I know I am sounding more religious everyday, but I simply see this as becoming more spiritual. I really see compassion as a force of great momentum. We just need to find ways to get the ball rolling. There's really no reason not to. The reward is eventually it spreads, and when it spreads things change. | |
|
| |
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/16/2008 8:22:02 AM | I will follow your own advice:
Don't let any man or institution rule your life with an iron rod.. This is just wrong and it is ruining lives.. So if I believed that religion was toxic, without confirming that it was toxic first, then I would be letting one man (YOU!) or an institution (Atheism) rule my life with an iron rod. This is just wrong and it is ruining lives.
The way I see it, the only sane thing is when people think for themselves, and stop just blindly following anyone preaching anything, without thinking about it from all sides. Otherwise, you will have people following your advice, the same as people follow the advice of ministers, and will take it to an extreme, just like some people take the advice of ministers to the extreme, and you'll end up finding that your own advice was just to justify some horrific acts against religious people, which you never intended in the first place, but was always going to happen, as long as you took an opinion against religious ministers and religious institutions.
I believe that hate of anything just breeds more hate, even hate of something you consider hateful. | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/16/2008 8:48:55 AM | | Yeah I think Msg18 makes a lot of sense. I don't think (for the people who are Christians here at least) Jesus the actual historical man, given what we think we know about him, would have much cared for anything resembling a huge institution with a powerful hierarchy, etc. Clearly he was against that, and he even clashed with his own fellow Jews on issues such as that. I think (and this is part of the reason I left Roman Catholicism -- which was what I was raised in as a kid) that if the actual Jesus could somehow come here today and learn of a massive institutional Church like that (centered in ROME of all places --- the Jews from his time and place tended not to care very much for Rome) he would vomit, wish he'd never been born. Even if I chose to be some sort of Christian I couldn't be a practicing Catholic for that reason. My immediate family all are, but, oh well.... we just disagree on it. I think Jesus, whoever he was, would have encouraged independent spirituality & compassion (as Msg18 said) much more so than any sort of organized religion, relying on other men to feed it to you, or relying solely on written words from ancient times, etc. It seems he was quite a radical thinker, evidently. I can't picture him encouraging people to suddenly "fall in line" like that. | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/16/2008 11:24:07 AM |
So if I believed that religion was toxic, without confirming that it was toxic first, then I would be letting one man (YOU!) or an institution (Atheism) rule my life with an iron rod. This is just wrong and it is ruining lives.
The way I see it, the only sane thing is when people think for themselves, and stop just blindly following anyone preaching anything, without thinking about it from all sides. Otherwise, you will have people following your advice, the same as people follow the advice of ministers, and will take it to an extreme, just like some people take the advice of ministers to the extreme, and you'll end up finding that your own advice was just to justify some horrific acts against religious people, which you never intended in the first place, but was always going to happen, as long as you took an opinion against religious ministers and religious institutions.
I believe that hate of anything just breeds more hate, even hate of something you consider hateful.
Hate??? I think this poster needs to read the entire thread and the comments I posted along the way. | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/16/2008 12:07:41 PM |
I respect all beliefs.. But I think people have to learn to draw the line somewhere. I mean, religious institutions set themselves up in the place of God. They tell people they are going to hell if they wear make up or certain clothes. They tell people who and who they cannot be friends with, date or marry.. They get people into fear, making folks think they will burn in eternal fire if they don't practice/believe some tradition or dogma. I have heard well meaning religious people say that we give place to the devil and demons if we listen to rock, rap or pop music.. And that spirits of lust and fear can come into us through watching movies!!!! That's not to mention the wars and murders that have taken place.. and still do take place in the name of religion and God. There is so much fear based doctrine out there.. is it any wonder that non-religious people shun religion.. People need to stop checking their brains at the door when they go to religious services. Don't let any man or institution rule your life with an iron rod.. This is just wrong and it is ruining lives.. Families are broken up.. people are having nervous breakdowns and taking their own lives. All from the seeds of fear and confusion sown by these religious tyrants.. As one diet and exercise guru used to say.. it's time to STOP THE INSANITY!!!! Did not Jesus even say, "by their fruits you will know them." What fruit has religion bore.. It's time to get real and open our eyes.. Alot of religion out there is dangerous and toxic to the human mind..... and soul..
OP... I agree word for word, ABSOLUTELY! | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/16/2008 3:51:53 PM | Yo, xNEROx.
Clearly he was against that, and he even clashed with his own fellow Jews on issues such as that. I think (and this is part of the reason I left Roman Catholicism -- which was what I was raised in as a kid) that if the actual Jesus could somehow come here today and learn of a massive institutional Church like that (centered in ROME of all places --- the Jews from his time and place tended not to care very much for Rome) he would vomit, wish he'd never been born.
Personally, I believe in an argument put forth by Dante Alighieri (one of your esteemed Italian ancestors -_^ ) in his political book, de Monarchia, where he confronts this issue. Dante believed that because Christ was born in the Roman Empire under the first Emperor, Octavian Augustus, He sanctified and legitimized the empire's rule. Christ stood apart from other claimants to the title of Messias because He didn't seek a political revolution against the Romans. Instead, He encouraged the Jews to pay their taxes to the Emperor and even said to Pilate, " Thou shouldst not have any power against me, unless it were given thee from above."
I believe that Rome was meant to be the earthly center of the Church because it's a testament to the gospel having converted the center of such a large, pagan empire, and also out of practicality since the Church's base in Rome allowed for the quickest spread of the faith. Much moreso than Jerusalem, Rome represented a place where people of all nationalities congregated together. Rome is a symbol of a universal city for a universal church. A "catholic" church, if you will. And so, rather than vomiting at the idea, I believe it was part of Christ's idea all along. I also believe the traditional story of Quo Vadis. That is, the story that during the persecutions of Nero, when St. Peter fled the city for a boat to Greece, he saw a vision of Christ walking on the road back toward the city, dragging the cross with Him. Peter asked "where are you going, Lord?" (quo vadis, Domine? in Latin). Christ replied, "I am going to Rome to be crucified anew." Renewed with a sense of purpose, Peter ran back to Rome to minister to his flock until his own crucifixion there atop the Vatican Hill.
Heh, then again, I might have been reading Henryk Sienkiewicz's book Quo Vadis one too many times.
Anyway...... at the same time, all traditional churches are still built not facing Rome, but to the east, spiritually toward Jerusalem. The Church may be headquartered in Rome, but it never has forgotten her roots in the Holy Land. The highest-ranking church in Christendom is not St. Peter's Basilica, but rather, is the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem.
One more thing.......
I think Jesus, whoever he was, would have encouraged independent spirituality & compassion (as Msg18 said) much more so than any sort of organized religion, relying on other men to feed it to you, or relying solely on written words from ancient times, etc. It seems he was quite a radical thinker, evidently. I can't picture him encouraging people to suddenly "fall in line" like that.
I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive. It's perfectly possible to have both an independent, spiritual and even critical mind and still be part of an organized church. At least in the canonical gospels, Christ is recorded as having established twelve Apostles who became bishops, and seventy-two other disciples. The same Apostles were trained and commanded to preach and teach and to perform sacramental functions such as Baptism and the Eucharist. He is recorded as having said "upon this rock I shall build My Church" (ekklesia, literally meaning "assembly", so that must imply organization of at least some level). Even if one were to disagree with the status of Peter as the first pope, it should be clear at least that Peter had some sort of primacy over the other apostles.
And finally, Christ even told His followers to obey the Jewish religious authorities, but not follow them in hypocrisy. "The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not." (Matthew 23:2-3) I believe the concept of the chair of Peter is directly related to the chair of Moses spoken of here. | |
|
| TOXIC RELIGION
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:08:50 PM | This might sound really weird, but sometimes if you want two drastically different things to relate to one another and function as one, you might need to do it so anonymously and subtley, that neither even knew you were there.
Then they both progressively start thinking it was in their best interest more and more each day.
If I were to guess such an insitution existed, it would be the personification of helium.
An identity that sits back and lets things happen until the conditions of the situation become extreme enough to trigger their unique influential properties which are geared towards facilitating equilibrium on a large number of levels. And all the while remaining completely anyonymous.
Hey wait a second, that would mean...
*sniper shot kills Vancer* | |
|
|
|
Home
login 
