| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/15/2008 3:33:46 PM | Does it make much sense to continue to put valuable scarce resources into foreign agendas while we have a failing infrastructure here at home ????
We have bridges, air-traffic control, ports needing additional resources here in America while we are putting Trillions of dollars in other nations ......
I for one believe we should redirect our policy to re-tool America before we add additional cost to tax payers to fund our over seas ventures...
Any thoughts on the issues ???? | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/15/2008 5:04:43 PM | | No problem with that with me. I am definitely for cutting the defense budget as it is. The military has been built up to an extreme level as a means of Empire Building. We spend more than the rest of the world COMBINED on the military. | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/15/2008 6:45:29 PM | | Bush is building his new home base in iraq and he has his new winter retreat in paraguay . Do you really think he cares about america ? He decided where he wants to be and you are all helping him have it. If America dies so what ? he doesn't care about it anyway. | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/15/2008 8:39:48 PM | Totally agree on limiting help overseas.
The only exception is for OUR Military bases overseas that provide housing and other needs for airmen and other troops.
The US wastes too much money ... giving away stuff. Buying things from the government is a little different... the US could buy oil from Mexico or other countries and that is good enough foreign aide. | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/16/2008 8:10:03 AM | Once in motion, things tend to stay in motion - to stop the bleeding of financial resources from the US to foreign countries it will take decades. The US is much more than just a military giant - it is also a global first aid support of many third world countries... when any country is in trouble the first place they look for assistance and/or support is the US.
The US cannot afford to give away it's financial resources indefinately without crippling the very people who supply those funds... The sad news is I don't forsee any changes in the near future - especially with our current line up of politicians who are more interested in popularity contests.
In order to really make lasting changes one has to step outside of popularity to make the hard decisions necessary before the healing can start. | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/16/2008 9:31:48 AM | | $600 billion a year and 18 guys with some brains between them and some boxcutters have their way with Manhattan and Washington and throw us off-track from doing much of anything domestically..........our "defense" isnt worth shit .... and I will bet $100 that the next 911 will be another walk in the park for whatever group of crazies does it. | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/16/2008 2:46:26 PM | OK72076,
I think we should get rid of overseas bases all together. We all know that we would not tolerate Germans, Koreans, and any other nation to establish military bases here, so why sou we occupy over there. | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/16/2008 9:32:05 PM | steven02151 do you really believe that any politician is going to be able to make real changes that will improve our financial bleeding to other countries? Even if Obama (or Hillary) gets the US out of Iraq it wont end war (the US is just too hated by many countries, it will always be seen as a potential target).
Here's the real scary part - if the new president does pull our troups off of foreign soil will the enemy follow them back to US soil? It is a fact that there has been NO successful terroist attack on US soil since our military took the fighting overseas.
As an air force brat who grew up on US military bases I know exactly what these heros in our military are risking in order to keep their families safe in the US. I cannot thank them enough. Of course I would like them all to come home safe and sound - but I also know my children have a better chance of actually growing up because of what they do.
I do believe there should be an end to our participation in this war... but I don't believe that we can just pull out without serious ramifications that will effect all americans... it will take time to gradually reduce our presence overseas - in the meantime our country is still suffering from serious financial and economic hardships...
Some of this financial nightmare is due to the MBA mentallity of making the most bucks by selling foreign cheep products to Americans - but all we are really do by buying these foreign made products is robbing our own country of the jobs in making them. I should know, I lost a business to overseas price wars - we just couldn't afford to manufacture products in North America anymore and compete with the cheep knock offs coming in from Malaysia. 20 employees lost their jobs and we are only one very small company compared to the hundreds of manufacturing giants who are closing doors all across the US (and Canada). Without the ability to manufacture on our own soil we become completely dependent on foreign trade for our resources. We are loosing our independence as a country in the process.
Loss of jobs equals loss of tax revenue which pays for the upkeep of our roads, hospitals, etc... the entire coutry suffers when our own people can't hold down jobs.
Of course this is only just one of the things that is effecting our finances and economy in the US - there are too many others to list... there ARE things that each of us can do however to help the US get back on it's feet - but ultimately it will be up to the politicians to bring the money back to the US - charity really should start at home. | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/17/2008 7:46:15 AM | Ladykay, there were no successful attacks on the US BEFORE 911 to speak of, it does not mean that occupying Iraq makes any difference at all. Were talking about 18 guys with boxcutters, pretty low tech and it's not like they can't "spare" a few guys to turn a skyscraper into a roach motel through the HVAC .
If anything has been a deterrent, its been good police and detective work, surveillance, etc. Fighting over in Iraq does not protect us in any way, nor does leaving it.
No one would simply pull out. "We must withdraw from Iraq as carefully as we carelessly went in".
Remember that 80% of attacks in Iraq are on US military. | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/17/2008 8:24:23 AM | | LadyKay, I am surprised that you buy into "they will follow us home" myth and, I assume, go along with McCain for the ride til 2013 with a tab of probably $3 trillion and then decry that the country is broke and we are losing jobs and say charity begins at home? | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/17/2008 9:31:35 AM | Well, I think a type of "New Deal" solution is in order here - in some ways.
It's true, there's a lot to be done to rebuild America's infrastructure. That's even true here in Canada, btw.
At the same time, things like the Global Poverty Act offer the possibility of reducing future problems, before they become major ones, if we all do this properly. A world whose population is suffering in misery, in hunger, and without education is the Petri dish for war and terrorism that looms ahead in our future.
Our enemies have one severe disadvantage in this battle for the hearts and minds of the world. They can do far less to improve the lives of those most in need, compared to us. As I said in another thread, compassion is the strongest weapon in our arsenal. Properly used, it can bring about a revolution in the course of human history.
With vision, America once touched the moon with it's technology.
With future vision, it can touch those hearts and minds that most need it's help.
America can do both, and must do both, if it wishes to work towards a better future for itself and the planet. It's lead, with Western support, could reduce human misery all over the world - both inside and outside America's borders.
That torch of liberty can illuminate the world - or set it aflame. | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/17/2008 10:35:01 AM | It is a fact that there has been NO successful terroist attack on US soil since our military took the fighting overseas.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. I'm having to say this so much around here I should assign a hotkey on my computer to it. A lot of things are facts; doesn't mean that fallacious conclusions can't be drawn from them. It's also a fact that England and Spain have had troops in Iraq. It is also a fact that England and Spain have been hit by Islamic terrorism since being in Iraq. What conclusions do you draw from that? | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding dom
Posted: 5/17/2008 10:45:01 AM | OK if you view my profile hope you read this with an open mind Defense spending viewed in the right light President Bush’s dense budget for next year is $515 billion, stands as the most dollars spent by the Pentagon since World War II. But comparing it to what America spentto deploy GIS against the Nazis and the Japanese forces is like comparing tokays Hi tech Home centers to the old RCA and Philco radios our parents and grand parents used to listen to.And the contending that our mission in Afghanistan and Iraq will wreck our economy as some candidates and policy makers are doing is off base. Take these facts in to consideration.Smart weapons and advances in battlefield medical procedures cost more in real dollars. But they dramatically reduce the cost in lives and collateral damagesOur troops training and education far exceed their predessors from WWII through the Vietnam war. Example of this a grunt in tokays Army or Marines their average cost of equipping and training is valued at $60,000 compared to a WWII grunt who’s cost was approximately $9,000 in tokays dollars.What’s more the US economy of past decades can not compare with today’s In WWII it took almost 50% of the gross national product to fight the Axis powersKorean War 14% of the GNP . Vietnam 9% of the GNP. Figuring in all cost associated with our presence in Iraq and Afghanistan we are looking at about 5% of the GNP.The longest war on record...The Cold War The US spent 8% of the GNP over 35 years . During the Reagan administrations heavy defense build up our economy had some of its fastest growth. And brought down the Berlin wall hence the end of the Cold WarAlso note that tokays 13 trillion dollar economy is more then 4 Xs as large as in 1983. Taking our world pressence and ongoing War ourmilitary is bargain if over the long haul we look at % of the GNP spent on defense.
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding dom
Posted: 5/17/2008 10:59:40 AM | Navylcdr, I agree that education is a very good thing. People never seem to acknowledge that the majority of the defense budget is spent on education. However, I don't think you have made a case for how our ongoing presence in Iraq, being slowly bled to death, is not wrecking our economy and the nation's morale in general. Being in a misguided, very poorly planned, and so far abysmal occupation of a once relatively stable, sovereign country is no bargain, especially considering the human cost it has extracted so far.
Thank you for your selfless service, nonetheless, sir. | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding dom
Posted: 5/17/2008 11:09:11 AM | | thank you ..i am noyt defending our precsence or invasion of Iraq or the president and his cabinets handling of it, many mistakes occured from the onset,,Frst was not sealing the Iraqi and Syrian Border prior to the invasion,, Allowing the Celebrations and utter pandimomium after the fall of the IRagi government was short sighted,, as well as many othe rtatical bluders, But all the unadultered figures I see across my desk the estimated cost of a rapida and or total pullout i sfar more tthen waht we are paying for at this time.. Also to note this is the first month that we the US i s getting payment for the tab ,,from the Iradi governemnt ,, Through oil revenue..MARC | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/17/2008 11:15:09 AM | I think the day is rapidly approaching, or maybe someone needs to tell him--Bush was not elected President of the world--just the United States. In my opinon, you're absolutely right!! Why are we throwing money all over the planet, when the money and resources are needed here? | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/17/2008 11:31:52 AM | [Ladykay, there were no successful attacks on the US BEFORE 911 to speak of]
I suppose the first attack on the world trade center doesn't count?
Bases are built as forward deployed forces so in the event of some sort of crisis situation the troops are already in the area. The bases in Germany were put there after WWII to ensure a smooth transition post war. They remained open throughout the cold war as a deterent to the Russians and guess what....the Russians never attacked any US assets. Thanks to the efforts and mere presence of soldiers, sailors, and airmen the US and will continue to be ready for anything at a moments notice. It's not the same world many of us grew up in people. It's gotten much worse than duck and cover. The enemies of the US and western civilization in general will continue to plan terrorist acts and attempt to carry out these plans whenever they think we have let our guard down.
Oh wait I forgot Mr.Obama will talk to the bad guys and ask them nicely to leave us alone so all will be right with the world Yeah right, good luck with that
If you can read this,thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English,thank a veteran! | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/17/2008 12:24:20 PM | As a poster elsewhere astutely pointed out, one cannot cannot pat Bush on the back for preventing further attacks without wagging a finger at him for the first attack on his watch. We will get attacked again. It's just a matter of where, when, how, and to what degree. Our enemy has almost infinite patience. That said, I'm not one for fear-mongering and blowing things out of all proportion with the threat they pose in reality. The fear is often much worse than the reality, you see. FDR will back me up on that one.
If you can read this in Klingon, thank Star Trek! | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/18/2008 7:26:31 AM | Thank the Clinton admin for 9/11. It was their budget cuts to the CIA and lack of guts to take Bin Laden out when they had the chance. Not once but three times he was in the crosshairs but ol "Slick Willy"wouldn't pull the trigger. He fired off a couple of cruise missles at an aspirin factory after the attack on the USS Cole(boy thats the way to show em) | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/18/2008 9:24:55 AM | 2fast4ya,
I do thank Clinton for many things. However the 9/11 tragedy is not one of them. I served under the leadership of Bill Clinton. therefore my military experience ended up being very positive. The current retard in charge has put such a major strain on our "defense" forces that we are more vulnerable now, than we have ever been under Slick Willey.
Also, what is the definition of Defense in terms of using our military forces ?????
I think the idiot in charge has confused national defense with global offense..... | |
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| Base building abroad VS rebuilding domestic infrastructure
Posted: 5/19/2008 5:11:05 PM | The USA has proclaimed itself the policeman of Earth for the implementation and stabilization of countries for the World government, or New world order as it is referred.. The Arab countries are a loose cannon when it comes to falling into line with the Interational moguls who are pushing this agenda..enter the USA. Also it doesn't hurt to try and grab all the oil it can in the middle east at the same time..As for 9/11 if you believe that a few Arabs with "boxcutters" were able to take over and fly those jumbo jets into buildings..all the while defeating airport security, and the trillion dollars air defence system..there is something wrong with that picture..The only way it could of happened is with inside help to get the air defence to stand down, and even then it is highly unlikely these people had the skills to fly these aircraft with the precision required. No my friends this was an inside job plain and simple........."the new Pearl Harbour" the excuse to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.. In the meantime do you really think the governments cares if things are falling apart at home..that doesn't matter to them..people will be happy to see the United Nations take over the sovereignty of the country when things get bad enough.. | |
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