| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/16/2008 11:33:55 PM | OK, so you are on a date with an interesting guy/gal. You are overwhelmed with a hormonal and emotional c o c k t a i l ... you want to come close and pull away at the same time, you know the feeling. Suppose you are also shy and sometimes overcompensate for that... so you get a bit too close to the guy a bit too soon. Not as in sex on the first date, but maybe very intense romantic feelings, drowning in each other's eyes, talking like you've known each other forever... maybe some first date taboos do get broken. He is all excited. So far no games, right?
So you've got carried away a bit, but you are in fact still complete strangers, right? And there are others on your list, whom you have not even met yet.. Now what? One of the two things happen. Either they pull off, or you do. In any case, a pull-off is a mild form of rejection, right? In light of the intimacy you've experienced, the rejected party feels cheated and played. There must be an unwritten rule of dating, that going ahead slowly is perfectly fine, but pulling back one millimeter is bad, bad tone. How do you avoid playing games at this stage? As a puller, you can't speak your mind in fear of offending people; as a pullee, you can't show your vulnerability and your hurt ego out of fear of making it worse. So you can't help but play.
Now, what if you don't make the mistake of getting too close too soon? Guess what - that's a game, too. You are calculating your moves like a chess player and not letting yourself live in the moment and feel what you would be normally feeling towards the other. You are not letting yourself be the loving being you are, and are instead being something else. If that's not a play, what is?
The point I am making, this whole courtship dance is ladden with games. No way around it. Sometimes, when dating a very sophisticated individual whose integrity and consientousness I trust, I make a conscious effort of stopping the games... it just ruins the fun and feels awkards afterwards. I am beginning to think this game of love is healthy. Maybe we should just stop complaining and blaming each other and get a grip of it. Kind of like a flamingo dance ritual. | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 12:20:33 AM | | Wow. You're the one playing the games. You are over analyzing this shit to the max. Be yourself, that's the only way to go. Do what you want to do, you only live once. You care way too much about what people think about you. You can help but play. You just choose not to. | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 12:38:44 AM | That is definitely over analytical...
People get carried away, sometimes you do more than you want to, it happens. Quit worrying about what people think and just lay it out instead of making it more complicated than it should be. Has nothing to do with games. If something happens that you didn't want to so soon, say something and stop worrying about it. People get hurt, people also understand so why should you turn it into a game?
There aren't rules where you're obligated to act like this and it's even more confusing and complicating to act like that instead of just laying it flat out that something more happened than you wanted. Sure it can hurt, but it's honest.
So if you get caught up doing more with someone than you wanted to but you know that it would never work out, are you obligated to continue with them and play this little 'game' you've concocted or will you say it won't work out even though it can hurt them? I'm sure just about anyone would go with the latter. | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 1:13:00 AM | I think there is some sense in what the OP is saying.
How many times have you felt that you really like someone but you have to bit your tongue and not say too much for fear of looking like a freak on the first date?
How many times have you wanted to call someone, but they said they'd call you and you don't want to look over-keen?
Its not entirely games, because you're not intending to hurt someone, but on the other hand you are "playing" it cool to an extent. | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 4:02:00 AM | That's easy. You are not enough of an artful dodger. One can pull back while moving forward by doing the enticing dance. So instead of pulling back phsycially, an obvious no-no. One can pull away by sweeping past them and playfully peering back over your shoulder. You tease as you pull away. Never pull back but pull away. Let the chase begin...
BTW, you look hot with that thermometer in your mouth...
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 6:04:34 AM | | If you like someone, just be honest. If you feel things went too quickly, be honest. My gosh. You're going to put yourself in the psych ward by calculating all the angles and figuring out what you should do next. Get yourself some backbone! | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 7:08:40 AM | | The courtship dance as you put it, I doubt will ever go away. Watch an old movie on how a man and woman were brought together in the past. Depending on the culture, they were either prearranged to be married, or because of the isolation of the times, married the nearest suitable person. They were force to make a life with that person, and make the best of it. Now days, we can have what we want. We are spoiled little brats that are looking for the best possible mate for us. Need something heated up, pop it in the microwave, it’s hot in no time. Instant entertainment, hit a button and watch TV. I think you get the idea. If something doesn’t work out, divorce. Things move much faster in todays society. We live for the moment and hope it will last. There is so much outside stimulus that makes us enjoy ourselves, we sometimes confuse it with the person we happen to be with at the moment. Do things move much faster now? Yes. Is that a bad thing? That is a matter for debate. | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 7:16:45 AM | Actually this whole thing is only a game if you don't figure out that there is absolutely nothing that can tank something that was meant to be. Sort of like pregnancy. If the baby was meant to be and healthy, nearly nothing you do (bad motor vehicle accident or something excluded) will cause a miscarriage. There is nothing you can do that will create insurmountable problems in a relationship that was meant to be.
If you express your feelings too early, the other person might be scared but he/she will stick around despite the instincts to flee. If you pull back, the person will recognize your fear and hold on from a bit further away. Part of the problem is that you are considering decisions as if they could spell the end of the world. Try being honest, if the first scenario has actually happened, tell the guy that you really like him and it scares the sh*t out of you.
The funny thing is that people go through a boatload of machinations to avoid getting hurt but it doesn't work, you still wind up getting hurt by someone, sometime because you cannot see everything coming. At some point you will grow up and decide you want to be an honest, real person and have a mature relationship. Until then, people are falling for shadows and that is why your relationships are doomed from the start.
Maybe when you get done figuring out who you are you will stop playing games. | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 7:19:49 AM | Some of us tend to think more than others--OP, you are not over analytical.
Beyond courtship, life is a game and, as Willy-Boy waxed poetical, it is a stage. We are participants in the game, and we are actors. Some of us are aware of this and enjoy both the game and the acting, some choose to ignore it, and some are poor sports or choose poor roles.
The problem is that people attach negativity to the idea of the "game." Maybe they always lose (but why?), or maybe they think it means being manipulated like a marble in Aggravation or a token in Monopoly. Some say "just be yourself," but being yourself means waiting for your turn to say something (better be the right something), your turn to make a decision based on what the other player(s) says or the move that he/she makes, or waiting for your cue to speak.
Kind of like a flamingo dance ritual.
Life is also a dance, but I won't go into that.
The game is what one makes of it. | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 7:20:58 AM | I just have a long time interest in anthropology... and more than one book on the subject has a chapter on anthropology of love. A fascinating subject! Pepperridge Farm Boy I think came closest to it... but see, most people lack brain wiring/skill for taking the enticing game to THAT level.. especially many educated/career people I think... just thinking out loud in responce to all the venting threads here, about how men/women can't be trusted. Hehe, did not anticipate to draw fire like that, but guess I should have. I am actually honest to a fault, especially with people I like, and I find it to be an obstacle sometimes. Definitely with dating.
Now, how many people will disagree with the statement that Farm Boy's enticing dance is a game? It's a game that "they" dig, and that can be played on a completely instinctive level, but still a game. | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 7:40:51 AM |
As a puller, you can't speak your mind in fear of offending people
Really? Who said? If at any time, I change my mind for any reason, I don't feel bad in communicating such. Of course, there's a polite way to do this, which takes an extreme amount of tact. I think it's only in your mind that a person can't take a step back without it being the kiss (baaaah!) of death.
I think someone who thinks of all things you've mentioned has a propensity to play games. Those are the people I tend to avoid like the plague. 
Just my $.02. | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 8:10:27 AM | A bunch of hurt people trying their best to attack me personally... what else is new. That's what every attempt at an open (albeit maybe disagreeable) thought generates in these forums; the fear most people would have here, of being shot down for one's honesty, is another argument to prove my point! Hehe.
Come on people... just had someone pull off after a good date, and even though we've communicated honestly and barely knew each other, and it's no big deal, it still requires a mini- healing period on my part. Why can't we just all get along. | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 8:16:17 AM | | Well I think the pull off is better than the alternative... I had a girl tell me she loved me after two weeks of hanging out, and despite the fact that I really enjoyed her company, I just couldn't imagine trying to make a relationship work with her after that... | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 8:19:14 AM | Why can't you show these things? Honest communication is something that can be very attractive. It's the difference between insecurities and issues. It is certainly possible to play no games.
How do you avoid playing games at this stage? As a puller, you can't speak your mind in fear of offending people; as a pullee, you can't show your vulnerability and your hurt ego out of fear of making it worse. So you can't help but play. | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 8:37:00 AM | | It's funny, I just got done dating someone for a couple of months and she pulled off when I attempted to kiss her goodnight on our first date. The interesting thing is she didn't realize she had done it and left amazed that I did not try to kiss her on that first date! She actually found that more alluring, but when I told her she pulled away, she denied it vehemently, well I think some people do things subconsciously so perhaps your episode might not have occurred with purpose either. Just a thought. | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 8:41:43 AM | | My ex-boyfriend proposed to marry me two months into a relationship (actually, two months after we've met), and pretty much the same PoF crowd who is now yelling "no games" all went like "he is a lunatic, dump him". Some people just lack in self-awareness... | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 8:54:07 AM | OK, here is a good example. Noorct's girl threw caution to the wind and refused to play games; he liked her, but had no choice but to dump once she did that. What do you say, oh the no-game crowd?
I say that she's smart that she did that. At least, she didn't waste time wondering how he felt. She put all her cards on the table and got her answer. They both were able to move on to find someone better suited for them.
If they had taken the game-playing route, it would have prolonged the inevitable. OP, just because I dissent on your position doesn't mean I am attacking you. I just don't agree with your point of view and elect not to associate with those who engage in games such as, "I'm not telling you how I feel because..." To me, that seems pointless and a waste of time.
My ex-boyfriend proposed to marry me two months into a relationship (actually, two months after we've met), and pretty much the same PoF crowd who is now yelling "no games" all went like "he is a lunatic, dump him". Some people just lack in self-awareness...
This isn't directed at me, since I haven't been here for two months. However, if someone proposes marriage after two months of meeting and it's proven those feelings are genuine, I wouldn't ascertain that person is a lunatic. Having much experience with the lunatic crowd, I would surmise he was a bit adventurous and probably thought that he was in love. Since he is now your EX-b/f and you are here in the pond pondering the wiles of game-playing I surmise that it was NOT a good idea to marry him for whatever reasons. Maybe those PoFers related to a part of your post that forsaw what you eventually discovered. | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 8:57:28 AM | | I disagree about the inevitable part. Noorct has clearly stated he was enjoying hanging around with her, and that's all there could have possibly been at that stage. Noorct, was the split-up inevitable? I've heard of a gazillion of stories where a premature "I love you" ruined a budding relationship. Have not you? WHY it is so is an interesting subject. Thoughts? | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 9:02:03 AM | I disagree about the inevitable part. Noorct has clearly stated he was enjoying hanging around with her, and that's all there could have possibly been at that stage. Noorct, was the split-up inevitable?
I meant inevitable in the sense that they have different approaches to life and love. If someone is feeling intense feelings and doesn't/can't communicate that, over time resentment will build. It can be said that inevitably SHE may have felt resentment towards either his nonchalance or that she felt otherwise unfilled and would have been the one to end it. Two people with such differing approaches to life/love can hardly make a go out of it for long.
That's what I was saying, OP. And those thoughts can be applied to the rest of that comment. | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 9:24:21 AM | | A premature I Love You (and I do when you have that thermometer in your mouth) may lead that person to think the relationship is too one-sided if the sentiment is not returned in a reasonable amount of time, say 1 month. I like to wait until the second date before I pop the question, but I'm Mormon so it might be different for us. | |
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 9:29:46 AM | As someone who's been both on the giving and the receiving end of the i-love-you / run-for-your-life dynamics, I don't think it's an indication of different approaches to life. I think that, in today's world (as opposed to mediaval Spain for example), i-love-you is possessive... it's not merely "w0w, you are a very lovable individual, have a nice day". It's more like "I have to own you now, your time, your interest, your aspirations, I have to be right in the middle of everything, and I don't care how you feel about it, I can't hold it to wait for you to catch up, you have to do it for me, least I get terribly hurt". Is not it? Even if you don't mean it that way... is it how you felt about it, noorct?
Farmboy, you are very funny. I love you, too. A thermometer is all good, someone had suggested it's a crack pipe. To each his own...
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| You say no games... but is it even possible to play no games?
Posted: 5/17/2008 11:41:17 AM | OP, you asked for discussion and you got it. I don't think anyone has been hateful but honest in that they do not like someone who enjoys playing games. People do bite their tongue to avoid letting their hand show to the other person because of fear.
Most people do not play the game because they are not into figuring out how to manipulate the other person and if that is your bag then be prepared for people not to like it.
It is not necessary and most people are sick of it and do believe that it is possible to date without playing games. I don't like people playing with my emotions and if I do so with someone else, I can assure you that it is entirely unintentional. So, I do not agree with you so my opinion will likely be dismissed as anti-intellectual.
So the most recent repost is not that you like playing games but that maybe convincing yourself that you believe in playing games would make it easier to deal with your hurt feelings. People have a right to pull back and rather than being hurt, why not just recognize that he is sorting himself out and if he really likes you he will resume things and if not, then it is truly his loss.
Jesus this is a convoluted thread. Telling the person that she loved him was not what ended the relationship, he realized that he was not on the same page. I told my x-husband that I thought I was falling in love with him a week after we met. He had had other women fall quickly and had run the other direction because they were not the right person. I was the right person at that time in his life so he didn't run, see original post.
OP, sometimes people think they are feeling things and figure out later that those feelings were misinterpreted. Sometimes someone finds out that he is not in the right place to have a relationship, or with time you just realize that there are differences that just do not make for a viable relationship. Normally when things seem to progress quickly but both are okay with it, I recommend that they enjoy it and keep their eyes open for problems instead of ignoring them.
In your case, you have to consider whether there were things other than his ability to become so attached so quickly, that should have prompted greater caution on your part and then just be thankful that you did not make a more permanent mistake with someone that was obviously not the right guy. It hurts, but you will be available for the right guy now because you are not with him. | |
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